![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2979 to 3003 of 8406. Go back in thread:
Posted by vandy on May 20, 2003, at 18:37:05
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
If I could offer some thoughts from personal experience: Whenever I found myself saying "F&%*K It" I have frequently found it to be a bad decision. In my case it was the next step that made it bad. For me the next step was to withdraw, leave, walk away, etc. without communication to the other party. This may not apply to you. I hope not. If it doesn't your next step would be to share these feelings exactly with the doc. Tell the doc you don't appreciate the superficial treatment you suspect you're getting and ask for a full explanation. It seems to me a common theme among these messages in this Lexapro thead is that although there are side effects that we might experience at first, these side effects diminish in influence in time. The good response from the drug is worth putting up with the temporary inconvenience if any and it's also worth the wait. That's what I took from the discussion. I sure hope you don't abandon something which may help you because you're confused and frustrated.
Posted by pumpkin on May 20, 2003, at 20:08:00
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
Dear Riffraff,
I also take Klonopin (clonozepam), but for me,
it doesn't "cause" depression- it settles me, and
helps me to think, because of the anxiety.On the other side- I take Lex for the depression.
I could be depressed or not, and still have
anxiety (panic) attacks. Everything could be
going fine in life, enjoying whatever- and "bam"
a panic attack out of no where! It can be a
two fold problem- related or not, to each other.I don't know the "why's" to your doctors decision(s). I guess he did an evaluation when you went
in, and came to his conclusions of how to try to
help you, to the best of his human ability.
I don't know your history, but were you having
any problems with depression before you went to the docs? It's o.k. to be honest on this board,
we try to help as best as we can- even though
we aren't doctors.It would be nice to have easy testing. There would be ALOT of spared pain if the medical
profession could take a "vial" of something to
test. Especially if the "vial" didn't hurt either, but unfortunately our mind tells us
differently!I can understand that you are upset. I don't think that there is one person on here that hasen't "been there". Some, more than others.
Confussion, frustration, anger, etc... Give
yourself some time to hash this over.Feel free to write to us, and keep us informed as
to how you are doing. If you decide that Lex is
for you- great, but if not, keep in touch anyway.
We really do care, and will try to help as best
we can. Take care, think things over awhile, and
drop us a line when you can.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 20, 2003, at 21:08:01
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
hey there, riffraff,
and we thank you, for posting to our (really, dr. bob's) message board/lexapro thread ....
> Initially, I went to the doc for a physical. I am a 30 year old male and was experiencing back pain, pain in my groin, trouble getting to sleep and digestion problems. I thought that it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a physical. I've almost never had health insurance or been to a doctor, and thought that it would be a good idea to get checked out. As it turns out, I was having panic attacks and was presribed clonazepam. The clonozepam was great for getting me to sleep, but was leaving me hung-over, lathargic, and depressed the next day, so I went back to the doc, who then put me on Lexapro. I haven't started taking it yet and I don't think I will. Fuck all this. I don't think that, for me, it is worth risking all these side-affects so many of ya'll are describing and then becoming dependent on some drug to keep me from becoming depressed. I don't know that I have a chemical imbalance like many of you have described. No body ever took any fluid sample from me and then came back and said, "here, see, you have a chemical imbalance." My doctor never even used the words, "chemical imbalance" He just said, "take this drug." At first, he mentioned paxel. When I told him that I had heard some bad things about paxel, he said that he wanted to put me on lexapro. He said that it was, basically, the same drug as paxel, prozac, etc. When I asked him, "why then do you seem to be pushing this particular drug," he said, "because it's the latest, greatest thing." I don't trust these people. Fuck it.
i can hear what you're feeling .... more than a little angry myself ... the rage ....
got to keep it from family,
from work ....only one way to know how lex will effect you ....
all the clinical studies,
all the statistics,
and
all of the anecdotes and stories you read here,
do not mean a thing,
when
compared to trying it.(btw, for as much as we are all adults here (maybe not?) and we can all handle adult vocabulary and all .... here at bob's webspace we have to observe a higher level of civility because "we do not want to offend anyone" is like one of the rules .... so, like i'm just letting you know that you may expect some commentary from management and that's just the nature of the order of psycho-babble ... anyway these are the kinds of things which are discussed at psycho-babble administration ..... i think it might be legal to use * creatively, such as sh*t , f*ck or, of course, c*nn*ngl*ng*s, for heavens' sake ... ... please consider this the gentlest warning i could manage, thanks)
even if there was a statistically significant population of optimally responsive lex users (who never post here because would never have the need), that too would not be any reason to think your response would be one way or the other.
hey, it's a crap shoot ... for some, lex turns the key that gives them back their life ..... for some it's poison ..... for you ? ........ . who knows ?
whether you decide to take your prescription or not, i'd like you to continue to post here, please .... i mean, no one has to take anything, to post messages here .... if you felt like talking sometime, folks here listen.
~ jim
Posted by riffraff on May 21, 2003, at 0:00:18
In reply to Re: Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by pumpkin on May 20, 2003, at 20:08:00
Hey, Pumpkin -
Thanx. Ya, I probably have a history of depression, bein' that, when it's all laid out, sometimes it can seem like I've had a pretty depressing history. But, I've done pretty well really. There's just a lot of old, residual stuff that's been throwing itself at me lately all at once and I want to deal with it, confront it with my own head. I don't trust these doctors who seem so quick to medicate every little thing. I haven't gotten suicidal or anything. I don't feel ready to take any more pills and put myself through figuring out which expensive, designer drug cocktail will work best for me. The anxiety is hard and I don't understand it, which, of course makes me more anxious, but I think that, with some support, I could get through without a lot of drugs. Thanx. Take Care.
Posted by bluzbrat on May 21, 2003, at 0:32:38
In reply to Re: Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by pumpkin on May 20, 2003, at 20:08:00
Hi! First of all, let me say that I am THRILLED to have found this site! I just spent the last couple of hours trying to read all the posts... unfortunately, I couldn't actually get them all up - or I was too impatient (dial-up h*ll)!
Brief (as possible - HA! I'm rather hyperverbal, and excessively parenthetical so I do apologize for the lengthy post! I really did try to keep it short!) background:
*Diagnosed with clinical depression about 2/3rds of the way through my undergrad (started 4 years out of high school). First med was Prozac. It worked, but the constant sweating drove me nuts and once I was stabilized after several months, I quit taking it (on my own)...
*Not-so-slowly sunk back into the major funk, put back on Prozac with closer follow up. This time when the sweats made me crazy and I was still SO difficult to awaken (regardless of how much I had slept), the doc had me try Effexor, which worked pretty well... for awhile. But I started experiencing an increasingly flat affect. No natural emotional highs or lows. And my tactile senses (especially my fingertips) went all wonky... to where I couldn't really feel. So I took myself off those too...not necessarily smart, I know...
*Many months later, having finished my undergrad but still in school for a teacher cert. program, I started seriously sinking again. I was in group therapy (for survivors of child sexual abuse) at student counseling services and they had an awesome doc who came once a week for meds. After consulting with him, we decided I should try Zoloft, which I've now been on for almost 10 years!
It seemed to work pretty well for me and I didn't seem to have any significant side effects... for a long time...
I was up to 100mg/day, 150mg/day during the week covering the few days before I started my period and the first few days of it. LADIES! TAKE NOTICE! Many meds are tested mostly on men, and those that are tested on women often don't take into account their menstrual cycles! If part of your depression tends towards PMDD, talk to your doctor about increasing your dosage during that week each month! It can make a HUGE difference! I know that for me, if I don't up my dosage then, it's like I haven't taken any at all and I crash... badly!
*Then, at the ripe old age of 32, I was (finally!) diagnosed with ADHD. It had been masked pre-K - 12th due to the facts that a)in the days when I was growing up, it was thought to mainly effect boys, and if you weren't literally climbing the walls, it wasn't really considered a possibility, and b)my giftedness. I was instead labelled a daydreamer, innovator, bored, unchallenged, unmotivated, etc.
So I started on Dexedrine. Now, I had self-medicated off and on over the years with recreational drugs, food, etc., but had never developed a drug addiction (other than nicotine - a stimulant - go figure!) - THANK G-D! But here I was being prescribed pharmaceutical speed at a relatively low dose (especially for my size), and not abusing it! Not even tempted to!
THE LIGHTS CAME ON!!! THE FOG LIFTED!!! WHOOOOOOP!!!
I was able to focus more appropriately, etc. Life as I knew it changed drastically for the better. And as an added bonus, I quit eating for stimulation (which I hadn't ever consciously realized I was doing before) and could actually tell when I was truly hungry and when I was satiated! I dropped an estimated 80 lbs. over the course of that first year, and boy did I need to! I felt great! Mind you, I was by no means a "skinny-minnie" at that point (lowest recorded weight back then was 218), but at a relatively healthy weight for my height and bone structure (picture large-boned, naturally muscular, German-Russian farm stock with middle-eastern curves) and steadily increasing my physical activity level again!
Meds on their own weren't the answer, though. Lots of research and guided- and self-education have also helped tremendously. It's nowhere near perfect, but neither is life.
About 2 years ago, I realized that I was experiencing Zoloft's dreaded sexual side effect. For a multi-orgasmic woman - this was a seriously frustrating problem.
*New home, new job, new doctor, new meds. And lots of changes in lifestyle...not all of them good. Physical activity level curtailed due to working 12-17 hour days and driving, instead of walking, to and from work...
The new doc kept me on the dex at first, but we lowered the Zoloft to 50mg/day (75mg/day on those days), and added Wellbutrin. BONUS BONANZA! Helped to cut down on my now 20-year long pack-a-day habit! BUT - (there always seems to be that BUT!) I experienced the dreaded side-effect of losing an excessive amount of my hair! FORGET THIS! I dropped the Wellbutrin with his blessing and just kept the Zoloft at the lowered dosage.
*We tried Ritalin - I felt too jittery and the metabolism rate was not stable enough. That is, the crash in focus-ability was intolerable.
*So we tried Adderall, which I've been on now for over a year. It seems to work pretty well.
*After some major crises caused by work and stress related migraines, I no longer stay at work for 12-17 hours. They took my keys away! :-) (Hey, at least they can't complain that I'm not a hard worker or dedicated!) I've put back on about 40 lbs. of that original ~80 lb. loss over the past two years or so, though. And I'm having some other problems... the lows often creep back into my life, especially when I'm stressed, overworked, etc. Sometimes the lows whack me in the back of my head like a 2x4. I find myself sleeping excessively, especially on weekends. It's not unheard of for me to not set foot outside my door from the time I get home at the end of the week until I leave to go back to work on Monday morning, save for perhaps one night out or one afternoon doing laundry at a friend or family-member's house. I try to rationalize a lot of it away by saying that I'm just overworked, overstressed, and tired, but I know that that's not the whole picture. The big D is also a culprit.
*Having read through many of the posts, I realize that the night sweats I've been experiencing off and on for quite some time now are probably a side-effect of the Zoloft - though they may also be hormonally caused as I am now 37 and perimenopause is far from unheard-of in my genes!
*I'm also still VERY often quite hard to awaken, virtually always late for everything (MAJOR, MMAAJJOORR PROBLEM!), often hyperemotionally sensitive, clutter my environments despite desperately wanting order, etc., all of which I realize only contributes to the depression... or, as (I think) Lee mentioned in one of her posts, AD/HD often masks itself and/or contributes to and/or actually causes depression, especially since we ADDers tend to negatively self-talk because we don't fit society's mold and are frustrated at our failed attempts to do so.
*Recently, a very close friend who has been on virtually every med known with little to no success FINALLY - in the deepest darkest pit she'd seen for over 10 years, found a doctor and therapist that she absolutely loves. Like me, she is a survivor of child sexual abuse and has struggled with depression, insomnia (I havn't mentioned this previously, but it is also a problem for me), and hypersomnia. She probably also has ADHD and is definitely gifted, but the ADHD has never been addressed. She started taking Lexapro and has experienced the wonders of crawling out of the pit of dispair to start rebuilding her life again. She also takes a low dose of Seraquel about an hour before she needs to go to sleep. She has started losing the excess weight and is functioning really well... she can go to sleep at night, she gets up without the major fogginess in the morning, goes to work at her new job, is rebuilding a family and social life, and is thrilled with the results.
*** What this all boils down to is this: Is there anyone out there who can relate to where I'm at right now? I'm considering asking my doc about trying Lexapro, but have been on the Zoloft for so long that I'm scared. I can't afford to start experiencing some of the horrid withdrawal effects I've been reading about, nor the possible initial effects of the Lexapro. I can't afford to start missing work again like I was for a while there when I was was overextending myself and had no life outside of work. But I also don't want to up the Zoloft again, especially if it's only going to increase the night sweats and affect my sexual functioning. And I don't feel like I can continue to live in this not quite full-blown depressed state. And I can't gain any more weight, but would really like to lose some again... not because I want to impress anyone, but for my own sense of well-being and comfort.
Feedback will be greatly appreciated! I'm at my wit's end here and don't know what to do!
Thanks! If you made it all the way through my posting to this point, then you either really care or you just have a purient interest; but in either case, you've made it this far and have earned a hearty CONGRATULATIONS! (And no, prizes will not be awarded for the most succint responses! ;-D)
Be well. Love and light to all,
da bluzbrat
Posted by leeran on May 21, 2003, at 1:15:22
In reply to New poster - looking for advice and info, posted by bluzbrat on May 21, 2003, at 0:32:38
"I experienced the dreaded side-effect of losing an excessive amount of my hair!"
Do you think this was from Wellbutrin? I have my reasons for asking (namely, a brush that fills up with hair on a daily basis).
I'm on Adderall, too - glad to hear it's working for you!
Given the fact that I have ADD AND early menopause, I was able to (at this late hour) just skim your post - however, I did notice the words "self medicate," something I did for years with phentermine, as much for the sense of well-being as the weight loss.
Light bulbs flashed for me as well when I realized that I actually NEED stimulants (and have a psychiatrist's blessing to be on them).
"the lows often creep back into my life, especially when I'm stressed, overworked, etc. Sometimes the lows whack me in the back of my head like a 2x4" - - - good description!
Oh yeah - re: Lexapro - so far, in my case - no weight gain (but I'm also taking 40 mg. of Adderall per day and 150 mg. of Wellbutrin), oh yeah, and Spironolactone as well for acne (yet another "thing" that's broken "on me").
This is a great board - it sure has helped me through some rough times. Welcome and keep posting!
Lee
Posted by Okpolosi on May 21, 2003, at 11:36:26
In reply to Re: Thank You All -To Hell With This! , posted by riffraff on May 21, 2003, at 0:00:18
> Hey, Pumpkin -
> Thanx. Ya, I probably have a history of depression, bein' that, when it's all laid out, sometimes it can seem like I've had a pretty depressing history. But, I've done pretty well really. There's just a lot of old, residual stuff that's been throwing itself at me lately all at once and I want to deal with it, confront it with my own head. I don't trust these doctors who seem so quick to medicate every little thing. I haven't gotten suicidal or anything. I don't feel ready to take any more pills and put myself through figuring out which expensive, designer drug cocktail will work best for me. The anxiety is hard and I don't understand it, which, of course makes me more anxious, but I think that, with some support, I could get through without a lot of drugs. Thanx. Take Care.So often it really helps to know you are not alone....many people here feel the same way you do....the DRs are using us like ginea pigs and don't really care, etc.
We are all here for the same reason, support and encouragement from our peers. I agree w/previous posters on this thread, don't give up, tell your DR how you feel, and if he/she won't listen, try another DR if it's possible. I know sometimes that is hard (small town w/only 2 DRs like me).
Whatever you decide it can be a long and painful road...just know that we all care and are here for you!!!
Posted by oregon on May 21, 2003, at 12:44:49
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
There are no easy fixes, for this medication I know you do feel worse before you feel better. I think everyone would like to be med free. In a way stating the Hell with this is saying the Hell with you :( . I am not a Dr., I don't know your situation. But this board gave me strength to stay with the medication and I continue to feel better everyday. But I was very, very depressed, anxiety attacks making my world very small and lonely. There is a great group of people here that care about you, lots of support.
Maybe we will meet again some day.
Take Care and Good Luck Sharon
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 21, 2003, at 12:57:42
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
> F*ck all this.
I'm sorry you've run into problems, but please don't use language that could offend others, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by Okpolosi on May 21, 2003, at 19:59:33
In reply to Re: Feeling anxious on Lexapro - lil jimi » okpolosi, posted by lil' jimi on May 19, 2003, at 14:12:57
Thanks for being such a great CHEERLEADER!!!
Have been having a better time of it lately, just got off a week vacation!!!!
Just stayed at home and worked on the house and yard...spring cleaning!!!
Ate SALAD today and it was great, still a little hungry though.
I feel we have a "rapport" going so don't please mind my ramblings.....
I hope all is going in the right direction for you, I'm pulling for you!!!
Posted by McPac on May 21, 2003, at 20:40:39
In reply to Re: Thank You All -To Hell With This! » riffraff, posted by leeran on May 20, 2003, at 9:30:27
"The closest thing I've ever heard of to a "test" is the brain imaging that's done at the Amen Clinic in Newport Beach"
Have you ever considered going there? I've thought about it myself.
Posted by stjames on May 21, 2003, at 21:57:27
In reply to Thank You All -To Hell With This!, posted by riffraff on May 20, 2003, at 8:46:29
No body ever took any fluid sample from me and then came back and said, "here, see, you have a chemical imbalance." My doctor never even used the words, "chemical imbalance" He just said, "take this drug."
Well, he probablly did not say this because depression & mental illness is not caused by a
chemical imbalance; we disproved this model for
mental illness some time ago, 10-20 years ago
this was the theory, long disproven.Seem to me you are seeing a general doc, as pdocs
are not usually the ones to give physicals. If you want proper treatment see a specialist, a pdoc.It is your choice to suffer, to settle for half good, not so bad, ect, or not.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 22, 2003, at 0:04:23
In reply to Re: lil jimi, posted by Okpolosi on May 21, 2003, at 19:59:33
hi okpolosi!
> Thanks for being such a great CHEERLEADER!!!
>thank yuoooooo! .... think i might be over-medicated? .... maybe over-caffeinated ! .... just glad if any cheerleading i do helps any
<<< i have been busted by my wife for being up too late! ... so i'm going to bed now and i will continue this post ... ((??)) ... sometime tomorrow! !!>>>
ha! yikes!
> Have been having a better time of it lately, just got off a week vacation!!!!
>
> Just stayed at home and worked on the house and yard...spring cleaning!!!
>
> Ate SALAD today and it was great, still a little hungry though.
>
> I feel we have a "rapport" going so don't please mind my ramblings.....
>
> I hope all is going in the right direction for you, I'm pulling for you!!!thanks again .... and...
sweet dreams!~ jim
Posted by lil' jimi on May 22, 2003, at 16:36:12
In reply to Re: lil jimi, posted by Okpolosi on May 21, 2003, at 19:59:33
hi okpolosi! ... i'm back ...
> Thanks for being such a great CHEERLEADER!!!
>you're a great cheerleader too! ... me?... well, okay.... ahem, ahem.... Rah! Rah! Go Team Go! .. okay i'm ready now.
> Have been having a better time of it lately, just got off a week vacation!!!!
>
Yeah! screams cheerleader guy!... and i say, Great, Cool Girl!> Just stayed at home and worked on the house and yard...spring cleaning!!!
>
Oh, wow, like .... i *wish* i could get myself to do the spring cleaning (and just simply de-clutter-fying in general!) that i need to get done.... way to go good woman! (now i'm trying to make up for calling you a girl above ... heh.)> Ate SALAD today and it was great, still a little hungry though.
>you Are doing all the good person things .... i am so happy that you're not coming down with anything.... yeah! ..... More salad, Please! .... for me!
> I feel we have a "rapport" going so don't please mind my ramblings.....
>that's the part i love ..... feeling like we have rapport ... i feel it too, so we Must have rapport! Hah!
> I hope all is going in the right direction for you, I'm pulling for you!!!
Thank You, Sweetie! that's so great! ... and be assured that things are good for ol' lil' jimi, yes, indeed, we are doing pretty swell okay here...... but i really like having you pulling for me! Thanks!!
if the opposite of depression is cheer, then wouldn't cheer be the anti-depression? ... and therefore, would a cheerleader be an antidepressant?
i still wonder if i am over-medicating it here (?)
peace to you and TAKE CARE!!!!!!!! (hey, wayne!)
~ jim
Posted by 2beornot2benuts on May 22, 2003, at 20:48:32
In reply to Re: lil jimi thanks Okpolosi (2nd installment) » Okpolosi, posted by lil' jimi on May 22, 2003, at 16:36:12
Hello to all in HappyLand! This is my first post, and I have to say Thank God that you guys are here! I came here so many times when going through withdrawl and panic, and reading all your trials and tribulations helped like no one else possibly could! I just stopped taking 150mg of effexor two nights ago, and I'm taking 10mg of lexapro instead, and today I sleptwalked through the day. Can't figure out (for a change) if it's withdrawl or the new med, or a fabulous combo. My worthless pdoc said give it a few days so your body can adjust. Great.Thanks. I'm sure my two kids (2+8yrs old) wont mind MOMMIEZOMBIE one bit! Should I brew some espresso,pop some diet pills, or visit my friendly neighborhood crystalmeth representative? Does this sleep affect end soon? If so, please let me know. Till then, Thankzzz
Posted by lil' jimi on May 23, 2003, at 0:17:07
In reply to can't wake upzzz, posted by 2beornot2benuts on May 22, 2003, at 20:48:32
hi 2beornot2benuts,
thanks for posting here in 'happyland'! ..welcome aboard !
> Hello to all in HappyLand! This is my first post, and I have to say Thank God that you guys are here! I came here so many times when going through withdrawl and panic, and reading all your trials and tribulations helped like no one else possibly could! I just stopped taking 150mg of effexor two nights ago, and I'm taking 10mg of lexapro instead, and today I sleptwalked through the day. Can't figure out (for a change) if it's withdrawl or the new med, or a fabulous combo. My worthless pdoc said give it a few days so your body can adjust. Great.Thanks. I'm sure my two kids (2+8yrs old) wont mind MOMMIEZOMBIE one bit! Should I brew some espresso,pop some diet pills, or visit my friendly neighborhood crystalmeth representative? Does this sleep affect end soon? If so, please let me know. Till then, Thankzzz
2(!?) and 8!? year olds? .... we only have our 4 yr old and we outnumber him! yikes!
i haven't taken effexor (although the last time i was at my gp's she offered effexor as an alternative to lexapro) but from what i've read here, effexor withdrawals are (sometimes; for some people) as bad as it gets for ADs ...... more good "news" : lexapro usually has adaptation SEs ... mine lasted about 9 days ... . for a week i felt like i had the flu ... and my 3rd day of lex was my worst, anxiety attacks .... but by a week they were easily tolerable and by 2 weeks they were gone ... but i believe mine was an exceptionally easy experience when compared to those who have had bad SEs for 6, 7, 8 or more weeks, it happens ....
don't get 2B2Nuts, zombie mom .... write to us here .... we listen ... tell us how it's going.
folks want to help ... they've helped me. ....peace,
TAKE CARE!!!! (hey, where's wayne!!!!!)
~ jimp.s. i can't see where a cup of coffee would do any harm ... or three ..... i drink a lot myself ... love coffee ... well, i really like that good strong coffee flavor, in my milk and sugar.... i realy like coffee ice cream!
.... sorry ... i'll be quiet now.
~ j
Posted by blkvettes on May 23, 2003, at 1:06:48
In reply to can't wake upzzz, posted by 2beornot2benuts on May 22, 2003, at 20:48:32
> Hello to all in HappyLand! This is my first post, and I have to say Thank God that you guys are here! I came here so many times when going through withdrawl and panic, and reading all your trials and tribulations helped like no one else possibly could! I just stopped taking 150mg of effexor two nights ago, and I'm taking 10mg of lexapro instead, and today I sleptwalked through the day. Can't figure out (for a change) if it's withdrawl or the new med, or a fabulous combo. My worthless pdoc said give it a few days so your body can adjust. Great.Thanks. I'm sure my two kids (2+8yrs old) wont mind MOMMIEZOMBIE one bit! Should I brew some espresso,pop some diet pills, or visit my friendly neighborhood crystalmeth representative? Does this sleep affect end soon? If so, please let me know. Till then, Thankzzz
Hi there, its going to take 3 or 4 weeks to see where you really are. You will probably have some withdrawl from the old med mixed in with side effects from the lexapro. Like lil jimi said the effexor has shown to have bad withdrawl symptoms. If you only get tired from this you are lucky. Not trying to scare you but things could get worse. But they will pass!!!!! Hang in there and keep posting. This board gets slow at times but you can go back and look at old posts that have great info. GOOD LUCK AND TAKE CARE!!!!!!
WAYNE A special shout to lil jimi, are you sure you suffer from depression!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!
Posted by JLM on May 23, 2003, at 2:57:49
In reply to Re: %'s/see bottom » pharmrep, posted by dr dave on November 25, 2002, at 5:49:32
> > > > > Dear Pharmrep,
> > > > >
> > > > > Good to see you back! The idea that Lexapro has fewer side-effects than Celexa seems to be floating around again. I presented the most recent and accurate data on this a while back and invited your comments. I may have missed them so forgive me if I am needlessly repeating myself, but it would be good to be clear about your views on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The relative side-effects of Lexapro and Celexa are as follows
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Side effect..........................Lexapro..............Celexa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Headache............................15.8%..............19.9%
> > > > > > Nausea................................15.0%..............17.2%
> > > > > > Ejaculation disorder..............9.3%(of men)...8.8%
> > > > > > Insomnia..............................9.2%................8.6%
> > > > > > Diarrhoea.............................8.0%...............10.8%
> > > > > > Somnolence.........................6.9%................4.7%
> > > > > > Mouth dry............................6.2%...............8.1%
> > > > > > Upper resp tract infection.....6.2%...............3.9%
> > > > > > Dizziness..............................6.0%...............5.6%
> > > > > > Flu-like symptoms................5.0%...............6.1%
> > > > > > Rhinitis.................................4.9%...............5.6%
> > > > > > Sinusitis................................4.3%...............5.1%
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'Overall, the type and frequency of TEAEs (treatment-emergent adverse events) reported with escitalopram and citalopram were very similar, and are in line with AEs reported for citalopram previously. For the TEAEs listed (above) there were no statistically significant differences for incidences of these events between the escitalopram and citalopram treatment groups.'
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the official information from Lundbeck about relative side-effects. I wonder if you still stand by the comments that Lexapro has fewer side-effects than Celexa, and that Celexa causes somnolence while Lexapro does not?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >***** I'm not sure i agree with all those %'s...i need to get my package inserts for both and will post (ie...Celexa nausea was 21%, not 17, and I know somnolence for celexa was 18%, not 4...but I will post what the U.S. P.I's state)...as for Lundbeck...the European studies and #'s are done separately from the U.S....I dont think they should be much different, it depends on the parameters of the study.
> > > >
> > > =====================================================================
> > >
> > >
> > > You can't really compare package inserts (is that what P.I.s are?) as they are measuring incidences of side-effects in different populations. The best way to get an accurate comparison is to compare incidences in the same population, as I have described above.
> > >
> > > Whether you personally agree with the percentages is arguably not the issue - the issue is what is the most accurate scientific data. I don't mean to offend by that, but it is really important that we rely on scientific data rather than personal opinions.
> > >
> > > As an employee of Forest, I assume you will have access to full safety data - could you let us see it?
> >
> > ************* Where did those %'s come from...(they look like P.I. #'s) If they are from a study...can you cite it?...otherwise it looks like it is your opinion...which is why I gave mine.
> > What "full safety" data are you talking about? I doubt I am privy to any material you aren't able to get.
>
> ================================================================
>
> In the UK a drug company has to present data on the incidence of side-effects in clinical trials. This is sometimes referred to as 'safety data'. What I am asking for is the data that is available comparing side-effects from Lexapro and Celexa in direct comparisons. Some of these have been done outside the US and therefore seem, for some reason I don't fully understand, not to count. But some studies directly comparing the two have been done in the US, by Forest, and we should be able to see the results of these trials. If you cannot provide this information that Forest holds, could you explain why it is being withheld?
>
> The data is from the Gorman meta-analysis, the source is Lundbeck. Check with them if you want to be sure.
>
>Speaking of the Gorman meta analysis, is there anywhere I can read the full text online?
Much appreciated!
Posted by jimbonicvette on May 23, 2003, at 10:50:05
In reply to Anyone switched to Lexapro? « ggrrl, posted by Dr. Bob on June 11, 2002, at 7:52:48
Hi all. I have been diagnosed with moderate-severe depression in the last few months. Couldnt sleep, scared to go out in public, spacey, quiet, irritable, worried, etc. Have gone from Zoloft to Effexor to Lexapro. I have pretty severe migraine headaches and take imitrex for them or even Vicodine if needed. I have IBS as well. I am a person that is very afraid of doctors to start with but that is a story from my past. I worked for the last 20 years as a tool and die maker and last fall got laid off. I am starting my own business right now that is very different than what I have done in the past but know I can do it. My father died from booze when I was much younger and it was not a pretty site. Though he never really gave me any support in much that I can remember. Mom lost her battle to cancer a few years ago that went on for many years of her in and out of 3-6 month hospital stays even coding once while in intensive care holding my hand. She finally died while I watched. Nothing quite like seeing your mother wither away to nothing. GOD I hate cancer! My older brother bailed on every responsibilty for taking care of her. The only time he showed up was when he complained how I would be doing things. We even got kicked out of the hospital once for fighting. Anyway, I've got a wonderful wife of 14 years and a perfect 7 year old daughter that I love dearly. My 2 dogs are a great way for me to forget anything! Though I had to put down one pup a year ago after 14 wonderful years with her. Second time I have done that and it was very hard on all of us especially my daughter. Its hard to be the big strong daddy when you feel like crying just as much as she does. Basically, the doc wants me to see some consoler and I have a very hard time talking about stuff like this with people. It seems a lot easier for me to type this and see what you guys think. First this doc told my wife to take away my hand guns even though I would never think of using them on myself or anyone other than someone breaking in and threating my family. Then she starts asking me about my sex drive. Around this time I start to really get uncomfortable. Should I see this other doc or what? Am I a nut? Normal? I am just tired of feeling like this HELP?!
Posted by lil' jimi on May 23, 2003, at 11:54:07
In reply to Re: can't wake upzzz, posted by blkvettes on May 23, 2003, at 1:06:48
hey WAYNE!
> .....
>GOOD LUCK AND TAKE CARE!!!!!!
> WAYNE
>A special shout to lil jimi, are you sure you suffer from depression!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!
> ......"are you sure you suffer from depression"?
you know, recently i have taken that question seriously!
i have always asked anyone who'd listen why they thought i was depressed .... i have never really felt like i felt depressed.
but my wife really does know me better than i do, which is not all that hard to do, and i can depend on her and her prespective .... and she and my gp agree....... so what do *i* know?
actually, i have noticed that i do feel great ....
and i'm even starting to think about getting the motivated/initative/productive-thing i have been missing, up and going again .... that has been my big weakness (aka The symptom of my 'depression').but lately i have been way cheerful .... to the point that i have wondered about being "over-medicated".... i Am so way Not sad now.
(there have also been some things that have happened, independent of lexapro, which have been wonderful in my life, which *should* contribute to me having my positive mood, and for which i am grateful if dismayed somewhat .... i think it may be for the best if i don't bore the folks (some of whom have suffered immense tragedies) with my good news, which even though it's good, i'm still not handing real well .... (?))
i'm imagining my own form of depression is not a mood disorder now so much as a motivational dysfunction ..... eh, maybe.
in fact lately i have been annoyingly cheerful to the point that i have gotten complaints!
now i think i'll just keep on keeping on here and if anyone complains too much .....
well, shouldn't i just beat the crap out of them, if they can't take a joke?
and
doesn't that help me vent that weird underlying rage that seems to never go away?on 2nd thought, i don't think i'll cut back on the lex ....... right now anyway.
peace to you, wayne, and
TAKE CARE !!!!!!!!
~ jim
Posted by Okpolosi on May 23, 2003, at 12:25:40
In reply to Re: lil jimi thanks Okpolosi (2nd installment) » Okpolosi, posted by lil' jimi on May 22, 2003, at 16:36:12
>
> if the opposite of depression is cheer, then wouldn't cheer be the anti-depression? ... and therefore, would a cheerleader be an antidepressant?
>
> i still wonder if i am over-medicating it here (?)
>
> peace to you and TAKE CARE!!!!!!!! (hey, wayne!)
> ~ jimI hope this will last.....We're all doing SOOOO GREAT....when is the other shoe going to fall???
The vacation was badly needed....work can be SUCH a downer!!!!
MR. ANTI-Depressor over caffinated Cheerboy.....we need to come up w/our own "CHEER" to get us all MOTIVATED!!!! Anyone out there good at making up cheers???
I sure hope this lasts....feeling great even though everyone keeps calling me here at work expecting me to be in 4 places at ONCE!!!
HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT DAY!!!!
Posted by blkvettes on May 23, 2003, at 13:21:42
In reply to Re: Depressed? Me? gimme my lexapro!! Ha! » blkvettes, posted by lil' jimi on May 23, 2003, at 11:54:07
> hey WAYNE!
>
> > .....
> >GOOD LUCK AND TAKE CARE!!!!!!
> > WAYNE
> >A special shout to lil jimi, are you sure you suffer from depression!!!! TAKE CARE!!!!
> > ......
>
> "are you sure you suffer from depression"?
>
> you know, recently i have taken that question seriously!
>
> i have always asked anyone who'd listen why they thought i was depressed .... i have never really felt like i felt depressed.
>
> but my wife really does know me better than i do, which is not all that hard to do, and i can depend on her and her prespective .... and she and my gp agree....... so what do *i* know?
>
> actually, i have noticed that i do feel great ....
> and i'm even starting to think about getting the motivated/initative/productive-thing i have been missing, up and going again .... that has been my big weakness (aka The symptom of my 'depression').
>
> but lately i have been way cheerful .... to the point that i have wondered about being "over-medicated".... i Am so way Not sad now.
>
> (there have also been some things that have happened, independent of lexapro, which have been wonderful in my life, which *should* contribute to me having my positive mood, and for which i am grateful if dismayed somewhat .... i think it may be for the best if i don't bore the folks (some of whom have suffered immense tragedies) with my good news, which even though it's good, i'm still not handing real well .... (?))
>
> i'm imagining my own form of depression is not a mood disorder now so much as a motivational dysfunction ..... eh, maybe.
>
> in fact lately i have been annoyingly cheerful to the point that i have gotten complaints!
>
> now i think i'll just keep on keeping on here and if anyone complains too much .....
> well, shouldn't i just beat the crap out of them, if they can't take a joke?
> and
> doesn't that help me vent that weird underlying rage that seems to never go away?
>
> on 2nd thought, i don't think i'll cut back on the lex ....... right now anyway.
>
Hi Jim, sometimes I have to read your posts twice to figure out what the heck your talking about. Do you see a pdoc? I would love to sit in on one of your sessions. As far as your motivation dysfunction, I feel this is my problem right now. But I did get a haircut today and went in 2 stores and have gained interest in my over all appearance again. This is the first haircut in over 7 months. Dont worry Jim, I have always had long hair. Women say they wish they had my hair. But Im slowly getting motivation and regaining that zest for life in spite of all that goes on around me. You just keep posting and I will keep trying to figure out what your talking about. TAKE CARE!!!!!!!
WAYNE
> peace to you, wayne, and
> TAKE CARE !!!!!!!!
> ~ jim
Posted by blkvettes on May 23, 2003, at 13:34:18
In reply to New guy with many questions needs direction, posted by jimbonicvette on May 23, 2003, at 10:50:05
> Hi all. I have been diagnosed with moderate-severe depression in the last few months. Couldnt sleep, scared to go out in public, spacey, quiet, irritable, worried, etc. Have gone from Zoloft to Effexor to Lexapro. I have pretty severe migraine headaches and take imitrex for them or even Vicodine if needed. I have IBS as well. I am a person that is very afraid of doctors to start with but that is a story from my past. I worked for the last 20 years as a tool and die maker and last fall got laid off. I am starting my own business right now that is very different than what I have done in the past but know I can do it. My father died from booze when I was much younger and it was not a pretty site. Though he never really gave me any support in much that I can remember. Mom lost her battle to cancer a few years ago that went on for many years of her in and out of 3-6 month hospital stays even coding once while in intensive care holding my hand. She finally died while I watched. Nothing quite like seeing your mother wither away to nothing. GOD I hate cancer! My older brother bailed on every responsibilty for taking care of her. The only time he showed up was when he complained how I would be doing things. We even got kicked out of the hospital once for fighting. Anyway, I've got a wonderful wife of 14 years and a perfect 7 year old daughter that I love dearly. My 2 dogs are a great way for me to forget anything! Though I had to put down one pup a year ago after 14 wonderful years with her. Second time I have done that and it was very hard on all of us especially my daughter. Its hard to be the big strong daddy when you feel like crying just as much as she does. Basically, the doc wants me to see some consoler and I have a very hard time talking about stuff like this with people. It seems a lot easier for me to type this and see what you guys think. First this doc told my wife to take away my hand guns even though I would never think of using them on myself or anyone other than someone breaking in and threating my family. Then she starts asking me about my sex drive. Around this time I start to really get uncomfortable. Should I see this other doc or what? Am I a nut? Normal? I am just tired of feeling like this HELP?!
Hi there, you have had to deal with some pretty bad things in your life. My wife is an alcoholic so I understand that watching your dad was not easy. The rest of what you talk about is rather depressing also. But you have a great wife and daughter. My 9 year old daughter has kept me going the last 7 months. If it was not for her I may not be writing this right now. But I guess to answer your question you should see the counselor. You have nothing to lose and your doing it for your wife and daughter also. Go a few times and if not comfortable see someone else. How long you been on lexapro? It has given me my life back!!!!!! Good luck with your business and dont let it get you down if it does not go well. Keep posting!!!! It helps!!!! Go see the counselor and just let it out like you did here!!!!! GOD BLESS!!!!
WAYNE
Posted by jimbonicvette on May 23, 2003, at 14:37:55
In reply to Re: New guy with many questions needs direction, posted by blkvettes on May 23, 2003, at 13:34:18
> Hi there, you have had to deal with some pretty bad things in your life. My wife is an alcoholic so I understand that watching your dad was not easy. The rest of what you talk about is rather depressing also. But you have a great wife and daughter. My 9 year old daughter has kept me going the last 7 months. If it was not for her I may not be writing this right now. But I guess to answer your question you should see the counselor. You have nothing to lose and your doing it for your wife and daughter also. Go a few times and if not comfortable see someone else. How long you been on lexapro? It has given me my life back!!!!!! Good luck with your business and dont let it get you down if it does not go well. Keep posting!!!! It helps!!!! Go see the counselor and just let it out like you did here!!!!! GOD BLESS!!!!
> WAYNE
>
>
Thanks Wayne, I have been taking Lexapro for about 2 weeks now. Its been a little better for me so far, but that could be because she was weening me off the Effexor little by little at the same time. About the biggest complaint I have with the Lexapro is going to sound weird probably. I am sweating like a pig!!!! If I go and cut the grass in shorts and its 55 outside, I will look as wet as if I just came out of the shower! Pretty disgusting! No, I am not overweight or anything, I have never sweated like this in my life! I wonder what will happen when it hits 90! Another thing that kind of put me off when the doctor first talked to me was her asking me if I was ever molested as a child. Now my dad was not the best dad around, but all he really did is ignore me or verbally abuse us. Kind of put me on the defense a little I guess. Its hell getting old I guess and I keep trying to tell myself that is all that is going on with me. But when I really look at all the signs, I have to start to think with my head instead of my heart I guess!
Posted by lil' jimi on May 23, 2003, at 15:07:42
In reply to Re: lil jimi thanks, posted by Okpolosi on May 23, 2003, at 12:25:40
Hey Okpolosi!
i wrote you:
> > if the opposite of depression is cheer, then wouldn't cheer be the anti-depression? ... and therefore, would a cheerleader be an antidepressant?
> >
> > i still wonder if i am over-medicating it here (?)
> >
> > peace to you and TAKE CARE!!!!!!!! (hey, wayne!)
> > ~ jim
>and you responded:
> I hope this will last.....We're all doing SOOOO GREAT....when is the other shoe going to fall???
>
> The vacation was badly needed....work can be SUCH a downer!!!!
>
> MR. ANTI-Depressor over caffinated Cheerboy.....we need to come up w/our own "CHEER" to get us all MOTIVATED!!!! Anyone out there good at making up cheers???
>
> I sure hope this lasts....feeling great even though everyone keeps calling me here at work expecting me to be in 4 places at ONCE!!!
>
>
> HOPE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT DAY!!!!i am so glad you are doing well...... it warms my heart so much.
great to hear your vacation went well ... yeah!
hadn't thought about "the other shoe falling" .... yet!
should we put the shout out to the long(er) time lex user and see if there's any reason to fear any "poop out" ?well, i like living this good life and i'll live with the come-what-may, but you are great encouragement to me. ... i appreciate it very much.
i love your idea of our lexapro cheer: "Give a 'L'! .... Give me a 'E'! ... " Nah! gotta do better than that ...
(a thought: besides the cheer; how about a song, too? say "the anti-depression blues"? HA!)!
(say it hasn't already been done!) (!)"nurse! ...another cup o' java!"
TAKE CARE !!! EVERYONE!! !! !! !!!
~ jim
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