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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 731 to 755 of 1242. Go back in thread:
Posted by Viridis on June 17, 2003, at 19:51:51
In reply to Re: new on Straterra, posted by beppe3 on June 17, 2003, at 12:56:54
I wouldn't trust any doctor who says your side effects are "psychosomatic', especially if they're ones you don't normally have. Mild nausea, headache...OK, I could see that being coincidental. But I've been through this nonsense with doctors before, most recently with Wellbutrin, which my GP claimed "can't" have side effects. Well, I had a bizarre reaction (for weeks) that involved (among other things) severe dizziness, sudden anger, sensitivity to light, shaking, etc. My GP said these effects were "imaginary" -- strange, since I've never had them before, they coincided precisely with use of the drug, and stopped as soon as I discontinued it. The psychiatrist I saw subsequently said that these are all pretty well-known side effects and not particularly rare, especially for someone with an existing anxiety disorder.
Since this is a Strattera thread, I'll add that I started it today (at 25 mg) and feel very calm, mellow, and focused. One day is certainly not enough to base any judgements on, but I am encouraged. I doubt it's placebo effect, since if anything I was expecting an initial negative reaction. We'll see...I'll keep you posted.
Good luck!
Posted by beppe3 on June 17, 2003, at 20:38:02
In reply to Re: new on Straterra » beppe3, posted by Lasagne on June 17, 2003, at 14:50:40
Thank you Viridis and Lasagne for your feedback!
Major thanks to you, Lasagne for sharing your experience with me. My struggles seem very similar to yours. I have knocked myself down and have been fairly self destructive due to feeling inadequate and unable to keep up with day to day responsibilities. I am getting help now, but have continued to lack tremendous hope that I will find a medication or combination of meds which will allow me to participate in life, due to my past experience with medication. Despite my sKepticism I am willing to try different medication due to having a couple of people in my life pushing my to forge forward.
Anyway, I do agree that having a doctor negate my bodies physical reaction to a medication is inappropriate and I will look into seeing another doc. It is very annoying when a doc tells you're creating the symptoms in your mind.
I will also try another trial on the Strattera and take it at night and see if the foggy and tiredness is less severe during the day. I will also check out that book you mentioned and learn more about ADD.
Your suggestions have been very helpful and sharing your experience with me has been given me tremendous relief.
Thanks again!
Posted by Gale Fox on June 18, 2003, at 19:06:08
In reply to Re: new on Straterra, posted by beppe3 on June 17, 2003, at 12:56:54
Lasgne, I too think you should get a new doctor. Strattera has several well known side effects -dry mouth and bitter taste is one, and even though it gives me insomnia, I've seen enough respondents here to know that it makes a lot of people sleepy.
And I learned the hard way that you have to give it a longer trial. I did great after a month on 25 mg, but the bottom fell out when I didn't go up to the therapeutic dose over time. I'm now at 80 and am getting some good effect.
gale
Posted by paulk on June 18, 2003, at 19:30:36
In reply to Re: new on Straterra, posted by Gale Fox on June 18, 2003, at 19:06:08
I had been taking Straterra for a couple of months – worked fine at first – but pooped out at 6 weeks or so – increasing the dosage just made me worse (very sleepy). I also had problems with gaining weight – it would kill my appetite in the AM but by 5pm I would eat anything not labeled as poison.
I stopped taking it about 2 weeks ago – felt bad – almost like the flue – similar to Efexor withdrawals for 10 days. This was no walk in the park – Might have been better to taper, but I just wanted to get it over with.
I’m now trying a low dose of deprenyl (Selegiline, Eldepryl) – it should not poop out as it is a MOAI that is selective for dopamine and norepinephrine.
Posted by Lasagne on June 18, 2003, at 20:22:41
In reply to Atomoxetine (Straterra) Stopping, posted by paulk on June 18, 2003, at 19:30:36
Wow, you are brave to go cold turkey on the Strattera. You must have a high tolerance to endure ten days of that!
I tried about 8 months ago to reduce my Prozac dose and the withdrawl was terrible. My doctor then had me do a slow tapering program and still I was only able to reduce from 60 mgs. to 40 mgs. My goal was to get off it completely in order to try and get pregnant, but that obviously did not go well and now I am back on the full 60 mgs. of Prozac and have given up on having another baby. I finally surrendered to the fact that I needed to take care of my mental health first and going through another pregnancy just wasn't going to work out.
I never want to experience the withdrawl symptoms again. I have accepted that Prozac will be my companion for life. Once you body gets used to a medication it's hard to get your body to function without it.
My sister and aunt have had the same problems with Paxil.
I figure if the medication continues to work then don't mess with it.
Posted by gouda on June 19, 2003, at 0:21:37
In reply to Re: new on Straterra » beppe3, posted by Lasagne on June 17, 2003, at 14:50:40
Lasagne and Beppe
First of all thank you so much for sharing your experience, I really felt I connected with many of your struggles, and I am so glad you shared with us your books, I'm put a hold at my local library today!
Beppe, I agree with Lasagne: you need to find a good pdoc! I am with you on the "non-compliant" attitude! I gave so many of my prior docs problems, challenging their authority, refusing to try meds for the required duration, etc.
My best advice to you and all other new ADDers is to find the best "psychiatrist - specializing in AD/HD patients". Why? B/c they have lots of experience cocktailing the right meds, they are very good at dealing with us "non-conventionals" who get a kick out of challenging authority! Most of us ADDers are extremely bright, so you need to see a good pdoc who's good with "out" arguing you and your unintelligible "but intelligent" ADD logic!
How:
(1) get a recommendation from another ADDer --> go find people resources at your local CHADD chapter (if you're in the Bay Area: Kitty Petty Institute is awesome!)
(2) (how I found my ADD pdoc) if you're really tight with your PCP, ask him to get a referral from his buddy psychiatrists that he usually refers to. Psychiatrists naturally will know who's the "ADD psychiatrist" in your area, so it is good to get a candid recommendation from someone within the circle. (my story: My PCP's buddy is a psychiatrist who specializes in domestic family violence. He knew he would not be the best pdoc for me. However, he knew 4 psychiatrists in my city that worked with ADD or intelligent patient types, so that's how I got my references)
Hope this helps beppe and don't give up on the meds!
I'm on Celexa (the older version of Lexapro) and I went up to 40 mg before getting any positive results on depression, no longer in the deep dark world of hopelessness, and things are much brighter in my life, even started cooking again. I'm on Strattera @ 25 mg, and moving up, so far, I am very excited b/c I'm getting more things done on my to-do list!
Gouda
> > Hi. I'm new to this chat room and Strattera. I've been taking 10mg of Lexapro for 2 mo. with little improvement. I've been struggling with fatigue and depression for the past 5 years.
Posted by Jonsey on June 19, 2003, at 10:11:42
In reply to Strattera AND Adderall?, posted by Viridis on June 10, 2003, at 20:26:41
I also use a low dose of Adderall. I started Strattera about 3 weeks ago slowly increasing dosage (currently 40 mg). My doc recommended I keep using the Adderall until I start to notice significant changes...which hasn't happened yet. This seems to be working well for me. I usually take a weekend day without the Adderall which lets me know immediately whether I still need it or not (I do). A big benefit of the Adderall is that it helps with the extreme sleepiness I experience whenever I increase the Strattera dose.
Hope this helps!
Posted by MomofBoys on June 19, 2003, at 18:03:39
In reply to Re: ...Strattera updates!-appetite/heart trouble » froggyanna, posted by Lasagne on June 14, 2003, at 16:13:55
My Strattera side effect is still just tiredness if taken in the daytime, awakeness if taken in the nighttime (however, I am sleeping better now and not such an early riser any longer). And also, I have been able to take 25 mg in the morning and not keep over with sleep, so my body is slowly adjusting.
I have lost the total energy surge that I used to get from taking it and I have also lost my ability to concentrate and focus. I think that varies from day to day, however.
My doc just increased me to 120 mg daily, increased my a.m. Lexapro to 20 mg. If I still feel tiredness in the daytime, she is talking about adding Adderall next week. I really don't know. She keeps changing her mind when I talk to her. We'll see! I do like the Lexapro. It just makes things "smooth" I don't know how else to explain it.
When I took the MMPI-II, it showed very high depression, very high anxiety, and very high anti-socialization. Well, I don't feel depressed, but she said I don't have to "feel" depressed to be depressed. I used to feel the high anxiety and have panic attacks before the Lexapro. And I have always been a shy, nontrusting person. I am not anti-social and I don't fear going out in public, in fact I am out in public constantly! With two boys, it's a must! I just have very few close friends as I have been burned by so-called "close" friends so much in the past that I just distance myself...like I hang out with my friends but never would I talk to them about problems and such, I pretty much keep it bottled inside, talk to my mom a little.....
Anyway, that's how my meds are working up 'til today!
Kim
Posted by Lasagne on June 19, 2003, at 20:12:21
In reply to Re: ...Strattera updates, posted by MomofBoys on June 19, 2003, at 18:03:39
Hi Kim/Mom of Boys:
I tried sending you an e-mail thinking that you and I should communicate back and forth since we have so much in common.
I have had problems with depression, anxiety, and recently was diagnosed with ADD. I am also raising boys. I have three ADHD machines I am raising. I also suffer on and off in the social arena. This last year I recently had a huge blow out with a friend that I had gotten to be close with and so ever since then I have been weary of trusting someone that closely again. I am very much like you in that I usually talk to my mother. If didn't have her who knows how crazy I would be. She understands me and what I have gone through. I find it hard to relate to other women because they seem to handle this life so dang well. I go to our church functions and socialize a bit but I always feel like nobody is interested in being more than acquaintances. Plus, my body is tempermental and I have to take a nap everyday and conserve my energy for taking care of my boys, so it makes it difficult for me to go out and do the typical socializing like lunch and then hanging out at the mall the whole afternoon. The most I can handle is an hour at a time. It makes me feel lonely at times, but I try to keep my mind busy taking care of my family and enjoying the time that I have with my husband in the evenings. I also have one good friend that I e-mail back and forth to almost everyday. Thank heaven for this Internet technology!
It was interesting to read your Strattera update. Thats too bad that it doesn't seem to be giving you sufficient focus like it did at first. My oldest son had to combine a stimulant with his Strattera in order to get the right control of his ADHD symptoms. At first the Strattera seemed like a complete miracle with him and then after a few weeks the effectiveness dwindled. I am around week 7 now and I have finally noticed an increase in my focus and ability to get the things done, that have sat around in piles for months. I am hoping this will continue for me. It's so strange how people react so differently to medications. Some people say they gained weight on the Strattera and then I actually lost some weight. This week I finally made progress though with the excessive sweating issues that I was having. Day by day the side effects are dwindling. The only one that I still continue to have, yet not as bad as before, is the scalp tingling and itch.
Well, keep in touch. I would like to continue to hear about your progress.
Sonya/Lasagne
Posted by gouda on June 20, 2003, at 5:55:26
In reply to Re: ...Strattera updates » MomofBoys, posted by Lasagne on June 19, 2003, at 20:12:21
Hello all, are any of you experiencing the same thing?
I've noticed every time I "increase my dosage of Strattera" ...
I get these horrible yo-yo-ing between sleepiness and insomnia!
10 pm: Take Strattera
12 midnight: Go to bed
4:30 am: wide awake!!! gosh darn it!
7 am: go back to bed
1 pm: wake up!
dinnertime: sleepy
ARRRGH! This is my 6th time in this pattern happened!
I feel so tired right now, my eyelids feel like heavy curtains! However, my brain is like going a 100 mph! I am so annoyed!!!
Posted by Lasagne on June 20, 2003, at 10:45:25
In reply to Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera, posted by gouda on June 20, 2003, at 5:55:26
gouda:
Are you taking Strattera for ADD/ADHD?
If so that doesn't sound right if you brain feels like it is racing 100 mph. The correct ADD treatment should calm your hyperactive brain so you can focus better.
Just this last week I have been experiencing on and off wakefulness during the night with the Strattera. At first the medication made me so sleepy during the day, then I switched to taking it at 7 p.m. and it helped me to relax and have a good nights sleep. Now I am having a difficult time relaxing even though the Strattera calms my brain down and I want to sleep. Plus, I have been getting up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom. When I wake up in the morning my back feels all wrenched even though I have a very nice mattress that wasn't giving me problems before. It's driving me crazy. I even have a hard time relaxing during my daily naps. Yesterday I tried taking a shorter nap to see if it would help, but instead I felt unrested and then when it was time to go to bed I still couldn't relax and it seems like I woke up every couple of hours. I am hoping that this passes because I was really loving it when I would just melt into my bed and sleep so well.
Lasagne
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 20, 2003, at 22:20:55
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 17:11:31
Froggy,
hi. how are you?
how are things going?
books
Posted by Ritchie on June 20, 2003, at 22:27:04
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » froggyanna, posted by bookgurl99 on June 20, 2003, at 22:20:55
> Froggy,
>
> hi. how are you?
>
> how are things going?
>
> booksSad to say I have to stop Stattera cold turkey because they say it has probably screwed up my liver enzymes. Since Strattera they have gone up 3x normal. I can't take any meds until they find the cause. I was taking it for depression. No discontinuation effects so far. I can't even take aspririn until the Cat scan results come back.
Well good luck, I liked it but it was just not for me.
Posted by Tootie on June 20, 2003, at 23:16:18
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by Ritchie on June 20, 2003, at 22:27:04
I'm glad to find this group too. I first tried Wellbutrin for anxiety, but it did nothing for me. Then I switched to Paxil. Talk about packing on the weight! But it worked wonders for the anxiety. Switched to Paxil CR (supposed to not make appetite so healthy), but I felt more anxious on it. I switched to Zoloft about 6 months ago. I lost 10 pounds (which I needed to do) and I felt GREAT! However, I've recently been diag. with ADD. I'm trying Strattera for that and went off the Zoloft. This is only my 2nd day on Strattera and no Zoloft. I'm feeling easily aggitated this evening. I'm sure it will get better, but in the mean time, my 3 and 4 year old boys are really pushing my buttons. I don't want to give up too quickly on the Strattera, but I sure was feeling alot better on Zoloft. Any encouraging words?
Posted by Viridis on June 21, 2003, at 3:17:20
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by Tootie on June 20, 2003, at 23:16:18
I just started Strattera too -- I'm on my fourth day at 25 mg, and will try 40 mg tomorrow. I also take low doses of Adderall and Klonopin (and Neurontin, which I don't think does much).
The Klonopin and Adderall have helped a lot with anxiety, depression, and ADD, but I've been under a lot of stress lately and am still having trouble with focus and concentration, as well as feeling burned out. Strattera really seems to help -- even at this low dose, I definitely feel a calming effect, and for the last few days have been better able to get things done without worrying so much.
It's supposed to take a while to kick in (my pdoc said most people start to notice the effects after 1-2 weeks), but I experienced a positive effect within an hour or two of the first dose. I'm quite sure it's not placebo effect, because I actually suspected it might make me feel anxious etc., and was somewhat apprehensive about trying it.
It's too early to draw any major conclusions, and I'll see how the higher doses go, but so far I'm very encouraged.
Posted by Lasagne on June 21, 2003, at 11:58:56
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by Tootie on June 20, 2003, at 23:16:18
Tootie:
Maybe it's not a good idea to stop one medication and begin another at the same time. Maybe you can still take the Zoloft while getting used to the Strattera. I found in the beginning the Strattera had a lot of side effects but over time they have diminished. I am on week 7 of the medication and it took me a while to feel the full effects of the medication. It is definitely something you have to be patient with. When I started the Strattera my doctor didn't change my previous regimine of Prozac and Buspar. From my experience with my son who has ADHD we try to change only one variable at a time so we can adequately track the progress. Something to consider. When do you go back for a follow-up?
Lasagne
Posted by Lasagne on June 21, 2003, at 12:04:10
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by Ritchie on June 20, 2003, at 22:27:04
Ritchie:
Is it common for doctors to check your liver function when you are taking Strattera? Do you have some another underlying condition that causes your doctor to check your liver periodically?
Lasagne
Posted by Ritchie on June 21, 2003, at 13:04:22
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » Ritchie , posted by Lasagne on June 21, 2003, at 12:04:10
> Ritchie:
> Is it common for doctors to check your liver function when you are taking Strattera? Do you have some another underlying condition that causes your doctor to check your liver periodically?
> Lasagne>I also use to take drugs for high blood pressure but no I don't have an underlying condition for the high liver enzymes. They just think it is a bad combo of meds. I am only on one med now for the blood pressure, they won't let me take anything else.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 21, 2003, at 18:27:15
In reply to Re: ...Strattera updates, posted by MomofBoys on June 19, 2003, at 18:03:39
Hey momofboys,
You wrote:
I have lost the total energy surge that I used to get from taking it and I have also lost my ability to concentrate and focus. I think that varies from day to day, however.>.>>
I forget; are you taking strat for attention span or for anxiety/depression?
I'm thinking of giving it another try, as I am noticing more adhd type symptoms. The one strong thing I recall feeling on it was sort of a numbess emotionally and flashes of anger. Have those side effects gone away for you?
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 22, 2003, at 21:41:26
In reply to Re: Why are so many of us ADDers also depressed?, posted by Lasagne on June 16, 2003, at 15:02:54
I have been off of Zoloft for over a month. I feel better, less tired and sluggish. Weight still hasn't dropped, though. : )
Getting off solved some attentional problems, but I'm seeing problems with follow-through and motivation that I'm beginning to suspect are life-long. (For example, I remember at 13 my twin and I each waited until the night before to draw a map of the world for Geography class, for example -- we even had to make our mom drive us to the Osco Drug for supplies at like 9 pm!)
How can I tell if this is due to depression or ADD? I'm starting to wonder if I have been in denial about the ADD thing -- as friends around me are pushing me to consider that I have it.
I guess I have trouble believing it because I have no trouble learning -- I have a 'quick' mind -- but only in motivation and sustaining attention.
Posted by Viridis on June 22, 2003, at 22:58:38
In reply to how do i know if i have add versus 'depression', posted by bookgurl99 on June 22, 2003, at 21:41:26
You sound a lot like me -- could you get your doctor to try a mix of Klonopin and Adderall? That was the "magic bullet" for me (and now Straterra seems to complementing it).
BTW: SSRIs were awful for me, and Zoloft was definitely the worst.
Also: ADD has nothing to do with intelligence or ability to learn -- it's how you approach and finish tasks that really defines it. Many ADDers are highlly intelligent; it's more of a time/focus/deadline management issue.
Posted by bookgurl99 on June 22, 2003, at 23:33:27
In reply to Re: how do i know if i have add versus 'depression » bookgurl99, posted by Viridis on June 22, 2003, at 22:58:38
Viridis wrote:
> You sound a lot like me -- could you get your doctor to try a mix of Klonopin and Adderall? That was the "magic bullet" for me (and now Straterra seems to complementing it).
Interesting -- what's klonopin? I think I will stick to just one med if I go back on meds, as I may be moving soon and $200/month for _one_ med will be overwhelming.
> Also: ADD has nothing to do with intelligence
or ability to learn -- it's how you approach and finish tasks that really defines it. Many ADDers are highlly intelligent; it's more of a time/focus/deadline management issue.Yes; I think I need to get the stigma out of my head.
________________________________________________
--------SUBJECT CHANGE ALERT -------------------
Another thing; both on zoloft and off, I've been eating an unusual amount of sweets. I'm starting to wonder if this is a form of 'self-medication.' I've gained 4 pounds recently, and at 5'5" and 180, I really need to drop weight for my health. This frightens me, as it reminds me of my depressive, agoraphobic aunt who ate herself to 300 pounds and has yet to live up to her full potential.
I also noticed the other day I was hyper to the point of bouncing around when my friends visited. I calmed right down having a capuccino at a poetry reading with them.
------------------------------------------------
I guess I just have a fear of being 'med seeking,' of not taking responsibility for my own behavior. It would be so much easier if there was simple test for these disorders.
Did you notice anything like this pre-dx?
Posted by Viridis on June 23, 2003, at 6:48:16
In reply to self-medicating with food? , posted by bookgurl99 on June 22, 2003, at 23:33:27
I've never had much of a sweet tooth; I tend to go the other way when I'm anxious and/or depressed, and just lose my appetite (which isn't good either). Interesting that caffeine calms you down -- that's pretty common in ADD (calming influence of stimulants).
Klonopin is a benzodiazepine (related to Xanax, Valium etc.). It's not an "ADD" drug, but has helped me a great deal with anxiety and focus. Benzos get a lot of bad press, but they're very safe and can be extremely helpful. Klonopin (clonazepam) is considered one of the least problematic in that it has very low abuse potential, few side effects, and tends to stay effective at the same dose indefinitely. And, if you're worried about costs, a month's supply of the generic is about $10-$15 in the U.S. Adderall (an amphetamine mix that's often used for ADD) is also off-patent and pretty inexpensive.
As far as med seeking goes, I was also very hesitant about medication initially. But now I just view it as a way of achieving and maintaining normal brain function. If you had diabetes and needed insulin, or high blood pressure and required drugs for that, I doubt you'd be agonizing over "med seeking". And typically (at least for people who post here) it takes quite a bit of trial and error to find the medication or combination that works. Combinations may be necessary -- I've never done really well on just one med, but seem to do best with a mix of small amounts of more than one.
Posted by MomofBoys on June 23, 2003, at 9:50:58
In reply to Re: ...Strattera updates » MomofBoys, posted by bookgurl99 on June 21, 2003, at 18:27:15
I have been taking Strattera for ADD symptoms but testing says I also have depression and anxiety. I don't feel depressed but I do feel the anxiety. My doc started me on Lexapro also and that makes me feel smoother, I guess. I don't know how to explain it really.
But I still lack my concentration and energy that I had at first when beginning the Strattera. I now take 100 mg at bedtime and 25 mg in the morning. I can actually take that 25 in the am without falling asleep like before. But I sleep way too well now but in the beginning I had restless sleep and woke up very early full of energy. I miss my energy.
K.> Hey momofboys,
>
> You wrote:
> I have lost the total energy surge that I used to get from taking it and I have also lost my ability to concentrate and focus. I think that varies from day to day, however.
>
> >.>>
>
> I forget; are you taking strat for attention span or for anxiety/depression?
>
> I'm thinking of giving it another try, as I am noticing more adhd type symptoms. The one strong thing I recall feeling on it was sort of a numbess emotionally and flashes of anger. Have those side effects gone away for you?
>
>
>
Posted by Lasagne on June 23, 2003, at 13:17:26
In reply to how do i know if i have add versus 'depression', posted by bookgurl99 on June 22, 2003, at 21:41:26
Dear Bookgurl99:
The only way to know if you are suffering from Depression or ADD is to go get an evaluation from a doctor who specializes in the treatment of both. You may want to consider reading a book that I just finished called "Driven to Distraction" by Drs. Hallowell and Ratey. The book has a section that talks about this. Sometimes ADD can co-exist with other mental health problems and sometimes the ADD symptoms are the cause of what they call secondary depression and of course it is possible to just have plain depression. The thing that distinguises the two is a proper evaluation of your life history.
I was recently diagnosed at age 33 and at first it was really difficult to believe it was true, but now that I have learned more by reading books I have come to accept the diagnosis.
Another thing to remember is that the way ADD/ADHD presents itself is different from one person to another. Some people like my brother have the impulisivity and hyperactivity to the point of extreme dysfunction, yet he is the smartest person I know. He can learn things better than anybody I have ever met. He has the potential to go further than the average person would go in life yet because of his ADHD symptoms he will probably never meet his full potential.
Then there are people like my husband who just turned 40 who has maintained a relatively stable life with several successes, yet he struggles on and off with being able to follow through on tasks. He is a big procrastinator unless it is something he is extremely interested in. He is also very forgetful. Because of his underlying frustration with his ADHD symptoms he has suffered on and off with depression. Now that he is receiving proper treatment he is doing so much better. I have been amazed at how the treatment has improved his follow through on tasks, plus other things.
Good luck!
Lasagna
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