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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 293 to 317 of 1313. Go back in thread:
Posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:11:55
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » jeenobeano, posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 12:39:07
I've been on Welbutrin for the past year, along with wean off of Paxil (down to 7.5mg) and just started on 37.5mg of Effexor, NO problems or side effects that I can attribute to Welbutrin. I decided to try starting Effexor after reading some of this thread, because I cannot see how the withdrawl can be worse than Paxil for me, and I still want the right cocktail. One of the recent postings on this thread indicated that there is no difference between withdrawl from a full dose or weaning with Effexor. I am not saying this is not true, just be cautious. Weaning may not be fun with Paxil, but cold turkey allegedly caused a former Paxil user to become homicidal and suicidal and act on both, resulting in a lawsuit in Wyoming. I intend to wean off Effexor, when it is time, unless I am convinced that I can safely (within SSRI withdrawl funtime limits) stop entirely all at once.
jd
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 15, 2003, at 14:29:48
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:11:55
Hi Jersydevil :-)
I think the post you are referring to about there being no difference between weening or going cold turkey, is from me.
I was referring to the withdrawal symptoms. There has been some very basic studies into the actual physical withdrawal side-effects and the severity of these withdrawal symptoms were seen as the same whether people tapered off or quit cold turkey under a doctors supervision. The main difference was the time...the people who quit cold turkey did not have as long a period of the withdrawal symptoms as those who weened off. And for those who quit cold turkey a single dose prescribed by their doc for 1 20mg dose of Prozac releived most of the major withrawal symptoms.
Again, I'm not saying either method is the best. But I can speak to the cold turkey method. I had a total of 3 days when I was not able to do my regular things (3 sick days in effect), the rest of the time, while I did not feel well, I was still totally functional. Now, three weeks since my last dose, I have been feeling really pretty good for the past week and a half.
-Bliss
p.s. I'm trying to get my doc to e-mail me a copy of the report she and my pdoc are referring to. If I get it I will post a link to it on here.
Posted by jeenobeano on December 15, 2003, at 14:45:11
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 15, 2003, at 14:29:48
> Hi Jersydevil :-)
>
> I think the post you are referring to about there being no difference between weening or going cold turkey, is from me.
>
> I was referring to the withdrawal symptoms. There has been some very basic studies into the actual physical withdrawal side-effects and the severity of these withdrawal symptoms were seen as the same whether people tapered off or quit cold turkey under a doctors supervision. The main difference was the time...the people who quit cold turkey did not have as long a period of the withdrawal symptoms as those who weened off. And for those who quit cold turkey a single dose prescribed by their doc for 1 20mg dose of Prozac releived most of the major withrawal symptoms.
>
> Again, I'm not saying either method is the best. But I can speak to the cold turkey method. I had a total of 3 days when I was not able to do my regular things (3 sick days in effect), the rest of the time, while I did not feel well, I was still totally functional. Now, three weeks since my last dose, I have been feeling really pretty good for the past week and a half.
>
> -Bliss
> p.s. I'm trying to get my doc to e-mail me a copy of the report she and my pdoc are referring to. If I get it I will post a link to it on here.Bliss,
It makes sense to me that the TOTAL amount of withdrawal symptoms could be similar if you taper vs. if you withdraw. However, just from my own personal experience, the day-to-day w/d symptoms I've suffered from sloooowwww tapering have been a fraction of what they were when I sped up the tapering process. Maybe I'm gonna suffer just as much overall, but each day's allotment of pain will be tiny -- which I can handle.
I'm an attorney and the sole breadwinner in my family. I'm also no hero; rather, I'm a total wimp with a very low pain threshhold. I can afford to feel kind of not-great for 6 months. I CANNOT afford to be incapacitated for any amount of time.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:53:43
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 15, 2003, at 14:45:11
I hear ya, Bean, I have an expert dep to take next week and I hope I'm up to it with the change in meds. But I lost 2 months last summer (SLI) due to a major crash which could have put me in the hospital. Part of that crash I attribute to a step down from 10 to 7.5mg on Paxil. But I had a few other things going on too. I am planning on finishing off the Paxil wean once I'm at two weeks on Effexor. I hope it doesn't trash my holidays.
Posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 17:04:01
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:53:43
I do worry about the holidays approaching and attempting to wean off completely as well. I am hoping that the distraction of the holiday hustle and bustle will help. It will be my best christmas present to be completely off medication and feeling like the old me again. (see..I can type rather controlled today cuz I have yesterdays dose in me...its tomorrow I worry about since today is my 'skip' day) I hope you all have a great holiday and wanted to tell you how much this chating helps.
Posted by Roomy on December 16, 2003, at 9:20:19
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » jerseydevil, posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 17:04:01
Greetings again today folks. I was awake at 3:00am and had trouble sleeping off and on until I just stayed up thismorning at 6:30am but I feel real good so far. I have been busy baking and wrapping gifts and getting my Christmas cards out. I am keeping myself distracted and I think it is helping. I am keeping the drug weaning on a strict schedule yet the withdrawl symptoms seem to come and go with no schedule at all. I wonder if what ya eat and how much sleep one gets has any impact on the withdrawl. I heard that vitamim B helps but again, I dont want to take any kind of pills. Vitamins included! So...does vitamin B really help? and if so....what foods have an abundance of it? With all of your help I think I can get thru this!
Posted by karlou on December 16, 2003, at 12:32:36
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » Roomy, posted by Roomy on December 16, 2003, at 9:20:19
Hi all-just took myself off effexor 3 days ago - nothing else had changed so I couldn't understand why I felt so awful...blech....I took the cold turkey approach, but honestly don't know if I can stand this...my eyes hurt, and all the side effects you guys have mentioned as well. I think if I had known it would be so hard to get off of, I never would have went on it.
I made the decision as I felt like my life was finally in a good place and just wanted to get away from all the meds....but,it is nice to know that the welbutrin can make some of these side effects less bothersome...for whoever posted that THANKS - if I can't stand this I may resort to trying to get through with the welbutrin...who knew this would be this much fun?
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 13:19:42
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by karlou on December 16, 2003, at 12:32:36
I'm stable and in good spirits again today. Although I still feel succeptable to falling asleep right where I am (in my office at work right now) which is probably the topomine. Otherwise, once my body gets used to the topomine, I think I could live on this mix (unfortunately it only has nine different jagged little pills to it(ok, some of the pills aren't so little)). QUESTION, why do we always want to get off of everything when we are finally stable? Maybe it's possible, or not, or dangerous, or not. I like my pdoc alot and trust him, even if I do have to bring new information to his attention from time to time. I don't step down or quit anything without his ok.
B complexes, I get them from pills, where else?
Anyone else feeling ok today?
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 13:19:42
I'm feeling fantastic!!
I would go through that 3-day sick weekend I had going cold turkey off of Effexor a hndred times over if it means being able to feel like ME again!
I had my last dose of 225 mg of Effexor on November 18...the withdrawal symptoms peaked and made life nearly impossible November 21 -22 (3 days and I timed it so they occured over a weekend)...and today it is 27 days free of Effexor!! It feels like a lifetime ago when I was twitching, itching, brain shivering, irritable, hostile, confused, and feeling like I was wrapped in cotton...and those were all the feelings I had BEFORE stopping the Effexor. Sure the magnified for a few days during withdrawal but the are gone now. I still get the occassional mild "brain shiver-shock" if I'm extremely over-tired or if I've had too much caffeine. As for food and suppliments, here is what my pdoc prescribed during this time:
1 multi vitamin once per day
3 Omega 3-6-9 capsules twice per day
1 100mg Folic Acid once per day
1 300mg Iron once per day
1 Stress Capsule once per day (containing vitamins B1,2,6 & 12 and vitamin C)In my case, I wanted off of Effexor so badly because it was not having a positive impact on me anymore. Now, I am on Remeron which seems to be helping somewhat, but my pdoc is planning on having me weaned off of this by mid-January.
Why you ask has my pdoc chosen the radical concept of no meds? Because there are an awful lot of people like myself who have been prescribed medications to treat our symptoms and once we have our symptoms undercontrol, we just don't bother to treat the underlying original condition. My pdocs approach is now to treat the underlying condition FIRST and then deal with the symptoms that are possibly best controlled with meds.
I'd also like to remind all of the people posting that it is a bit insulting to assume that you have more or less responsibilities in your life or to your job than the others posting here. I too have been going through all of this with a family, and as the sole breadwinner and in a profession that does not typically allow for "breaks" or time off. Rather than complain or use these facts as excuses for not improving my situation, I have chosen to be creative and work my healing process into these two important aspects of my life because mental illness and being a prefessional and a mother are not mutually exclusive.
-Bliss
Posted by jeenobeano on December 16, 2003, at 14:20:31
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
> I'm feeling fantastic!!
>
> I would go through that 3-day sick weekend I had going cold turkey off of Effexor a hndred times over if it means being able to feel like ME again!
>
> I had my last dose of 225 mg of Effexor on November 18...the withdrawal symptoms peaked and made life nearly impossible November 21 -22 (3 days and I timed it so they occured over a weekend)...and today it is 27 days free of Effexor!! It feels like a lifetime ago when I was twitching, itching, brain shivering, irritable, hostile, confused, and feeling like I was wrapped in cotton...and those were all the feelings I had BEFORE stopping the Effexor. Sure the magnified for a few days during withdrawal but the are gone now. I still get the occassional mild "brain shiver-shock" if I'm extremely over-tired or if I've had too much caffeine. As for food and suppliments, here is what my pdoc prescribed during this time:
> 1 multi vitamin once per day
> 3 Omega 3-6-9 capsules twice per day
> 1 100mg Folic Acid once per day
> 1 300mg Iron once per day
> 1 Stress Capsule once per day (containing vitamins B1,2,6 & 12 and vitamin C)
>
> In my case, I wanted off of Effexor so badly because it was not having a positive impact on me anymore. Now, I am on Remeron which seems to be helping somewhat, but my pdoc is planning on having me weaned off of this by mid-January.
>
> Why you ask has my pdoc chosen the radical concept of no meds? Because there are an awful lot of people like myself who have been prescribed medications to treat our symptoms and once we have our symptoms undercontrol, we just don't bother to treat the underlying original condition. My pdocs approach is now to treat the underlying condition FIRST and then deal with the symptoms that are possibly best controlled with meds.
>
> I'd also like to remind all of the people posting that it is a bit insulting to assume that you have more or less responsibilities in your life or to your job than the others posting here. I too have been going through all of this with a family, and as the sole breadwinner and in a profession that does not typically allow for "breaks" or time off. Rather than complain or use these facts as excuses for not improving my situation, I have chosen to be creative and work my healing process into these two important aspects of my life because mental illness and being a prefessional and a mother are not mutually exclusive.
>
> -BlissBliss,
I'm sorry if one of my posts was one of the ones you felt was insulting. I meant no harm by anything I wrote earlier, and I certainly did not mean to imply that I have greater responsibilities than anyone else on this board. If that's the message I conveyed I do apologize.
My pdoc specifically told me that based on the symptoms I experienced when I was taking only 5% less per day than usual, if I went cold turkey my w/d would be waaaaaaay worse than he sees in his typical cases. It wouldn't just knock me on my butt for the 3 days you experienced; rather, he seemed to think I'd be rendered incapacited for a much greater length of time. I didn't mean to belittle what you went through, but I just started a new job and I simply cannot take an indefinite amount of time off of work. I'm also a huge wimp and couldn't stand even 3 days of agony, I'm quite certain.
Like you, I'm trying to be creative here and fix my situation in a way that works best for me.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:23:24
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
GO GIRL! Alas, my underlying condition is still on the mend. I am working a "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach, but I still have some chemical imbalances. Glad to know there's hope. Thanks Bliss.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:35:46
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:23:24
> GO GIRL! Alas, my underlying condition is still on the mend. I am working a "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach, but I still have some chemical imbalances. Glad to know there's hope. Thanks Bliss.
>I hear you on the "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach" I know this may sound odd...especially since I'm not a buddhist...lol...but they have this meditation called the Mhetta Bhavana
which I swear has been working wonders for me in terms of my attitude. There are 5 stages, I myself have only done the first one. A year ago if you told me I would be trying buddhist meditation to ease my anxiety and depression it probably would have been the only thing that would have made me laugh. Now, I'm trying anything and everything to get my life back on track because I refuse to keep riding the nasty anxiety/depression rollar coaster.You can find it at:
http://www.wildmind.org/meditation/metta/-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:52:53
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:35:46
Spiritual relief along with pharmacological. Anything and everything. Check out "When things fall apart" by Pema Chodron. Not that I plan on becoming a Buddist, but their meditation rocks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2003, at 8:23:02
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:52:53
> Spiritual relief along with pharmacological. Anything and everything. Check out "When things fall apart" by Pema Chodron.
I'd like to redirect follow-ups about spiritual relief to Psycho-Babble Faith. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20030908/msgs/290871.html
Also, I'd like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by jerseydevil on December 17, 2003, at 10:42:51
In reply to Redirect: Spiritual relief + double double quotes » jerseydevil, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2003, at 8:23:02
I have to try Dr. Bob's wunderlink, the book is "When Things Fall Apart"
Posted by sun on December 18, 2003, at 13:22:10
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by pala on December 13, 2003, at 16:28:19
i've been using effexor xr for about 2 years for anxiety and depression. my dose was 150mg initially and reduced to 75 mg which worked for me as well as the 150mg.
i tried both quitting cold turkey and tapering off after one year of the usage. the experience for me was less headache and nausea when tapering off. i did get the brain shiver that last about 6 days and totally gone afterwards.
the reason i stopped was because i felt so well that i thought i don't need the med anymore but i did get relapse and i'm starting 75 mg again and felt better again.
for me, this has been an excellent medication (i tried many others that don't work), the withdrawal symptoms for me is managable although annoying but everyone's is different, especially if effexor doesn't work for you.
if i were a doctor, i'll only prescribe effexor after the patients don't response to 2 - 3 other meds.
Posted by Camille Dumont on December 20, 2003, at 2:39:43
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by sun on December 18, 2003, at 13:22:10
In a way I was also very p*ssed when I found out about the withdrawal effects. I felt cheated ... like someone making you addicted to something without telling you. They should definately tell patients more ... not wait. I found out the hard way when I forgot my pills for a weekend.
Posted by temery on December 20, 2003, at 20:27:34
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Camille Dumont on December 20, 2003, at 2:39:43
I agree, I have a 9 year old that was put on effexor and he is now going off effexor and is trying remeron. the doctors didnt tell me anything about effexor... only that it has worked well with other people. I didnt find out until later that they dont recomend it for children, Does anyone have any information on remeron. Please advise.
Posted by pala on December 21, 2003, at 2:31:26
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by temery on December 20, 2003, at 20:27:34
Please, please don't give these medications to
9 year old, is there a reason why effexor is
prescribed for this young boy? As adults we
can't withstand the withdrawal symptoms and also
couldn't continue it because of severe side effects, unless the situation is extremely demanding, I will not give these medications to 9 year old, these medicines alter the behavior of the person totally, these medicines are like trap, withdrawal symptoms are so bad, 90 out 100 people will go back on medication.Please ask the PD who prescribed to your boy this
medication, why he did it and does he know anything about the side effects and withdrawal effectspala
> I agree, I have a 9 year old that was put on effexor and he is now going off effexor and is trying remeron. the doctors didnt tell me anything about effexor... only that it has worked well with other people. I didnt find out until later that they dont recomend it for children, Does anyone have any information on remeron. Please advise.
Posted by johnno on December 22, 2003, at 6:22:43
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Camille Dumont on December 20, 2003, at 2:39:43
I think this is a very good point. Only lately (12 months) have I noticed that my box of Effexor, now contains a stick on warning about not discontinuing the med unless you talk to your Doc. Previously, their internal guff on side effects, covered everything under the Sun (with the glaring exception of immaculate conception!)
but zilch on withdrawal. I do think they are worried now, about possible repercussions. There are quite a few Effexor Class Suit actions building & pending. Use Google to check the WEB.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 22, 2003, at 10:02:25
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by pala on December 21, 2003, at 2:31:26
OK, let's not all panic (or they'll give us more meds, ha ha ha). I'm currently on a cocktail of nine different meds. Dispite a little nausia, I feel pretty damn good today (and its a Monday!!!), made it to work not terribly late and can think enough to get some work done. I've been on Effexor about two weeks now, knowing about the probable withdrawl problems. I say "probable" because I've been trying to wean off of another SSRI, Paxil, for over a year now, and each time I take even a small step down life sucks for about a month. I started on Effexor after reading here the OPINIONS of some people that its side effects were less than Paxil and withdrawl was not fun, but easier than Paxil. I thought I should give it a try because I was tired of still cycling into Depression for two weeks at a clip. While I don't recommend Paxil (hate it, may sue them), I don't think it is my place to tell people not to take it, it may be just what they need. If I've learned anything from the boards and talking to people at Double Trouble meetings, it is that each person has their own chemistry and their own needs medicinally. If you don't like what you read here, go to another thread or another board. If you don't like what you doc says, talk to them or find another doc. But doing nothing is the worst thing one can do. Best wishes. Happy Holidays.
>
> Please, please don't give these medications to
> 9 year old, is there a reason why effexor is
> prescribed for this young boy? As adults we
> can't withstand the withdrawal symptoms and also
> couldn't continue it because of severe side effects, unless the situation is extremely demanding, I will not give these medications to 9 year old, these medicines alter the behavior of the person totally, these medicines are like trap, withdrawal symptoms are so bad, 90 out 100 people will go back on medication.
>
> Please ask the PD who prescribed to your boy this
> medication, why he did it and does he know anything about the side effects and withdrawal effects
>
> pala
>
>
>
>
> > I agree, I have a 9 year old that was put on effexor and he is now going off effexor and is trying remeron. the doctors didnt tell me anything about effexor... only that it has worked well with other people. I didnt find out until later that they dont recomend it for children, Does anyone have any information on remeron. Please advise.
>
>
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 22, 2003, at 10:28:02
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by johnno on December 22, 2003, at 6:22:43
The newer Effexor brochures/leaflets have more discontinuation symptoms listed than side effects.
Plus, I'm beginning to believe that taking your medicine at the same time every day is a bad idea with Effexor. Withdrawal is easier when you stagger the dosage amounts & times you take it. Maybe the brain shouldn't get used to the same amount at the same time each day.
KDi in TX
> I think this is a very good point. Only lately (12 months) have I noticed that my box of Effexor, now contains a stick on warning about not discontinuing the med unless you talk to your Doc. Previously, their internal guff on side effects, covered everything under the Sun (with the glaring exception of immaculate conception!)
> but zilch on withdrawal. I do think they are worried now, about possible repercussions. There are quite a few Effexor Class Suit actions building & pending. Use Google to check the WEB.
Posted by Roomy on December 23, 2003, at 6:47:21
In reply to Effexor Brochures, posted by KimberlyDi on December 22, 2003, at 10:28:02
> The newer Effexor brochures/leaflets have more discontinuation symptoms listed than side effects.
>
> Plus, I'm beginning to believe that taking your medicine at the same time every day is a bad idea with Effexor. Withdrawal is easier when you stagger the dosage amounts & times you take it. Maybe the brain shouldn't get used to the same amount at the same time each day.
>
> KDi in TX
>
Hey K.Di.
That is a super good point about staggering the Effexor dose to help wean. I just went thru that from 75 one day and 37.5 the next. I did this for about 20 days and then just stayed on the 37.5 every day for 20 days and now I do the 37.5 every other day. I just wonder what my next step will be. Half a 37.5? 37.5 every THIRD day? I am so glad I have found this site. I wish my brother-in-law would have had help weaning off his Paxil...(or stayed on it!) He committed suicide one year ago during the christmas holiday. This is our first christmas without him. He was the entertainment for all of the children at the family party. He always brought the wind-up toys and reindeer and santas and anything else that was wind-upable.....but...I digress. I hope everyone taking medication or weaning off medication...ANY medication...will be very careful and have patience during the holiday season. Depression creeps up on you. Talk to someone if need be. Trust me, they will GLADLY help you out in any way possible rather than live with the guilt of never having been there when they were the most needed!
Merry Christmas! and Remember those who love you!
Posted by maxx44 on December 23, 2003, at 20:26:04
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by temery on December 20, 2003, at 20:27:34
remeron for a 9-year-old? what are your child's problems and how severe?
Posted by jpal on December 25, 2003, at 9:15:29
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by oeps7 on September 9, 2003, at 8:22:43
I am in the middle of trying to get off Effexor XR and just started taking Wellbutrin XL. Nauseous all the time, but I don't know if it's from Effexor withdrawals or the new Wellbutrin as nausea is listed as a wellbutrin side effect. This is making me nuts, having trouble functioning. Anyone had similar issues, any advice would be appreciated.
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