![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 838 to 862 of 1313. Go back in thread:
Posted by TJB on May 5, 2004, at 17:21:25
In reply to Fluoxetine (Prozac) offen relieves withdrawal » Sinaminika, posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 3:36:08
Oh my God yeah. Prozac is great for getting off Effexor. And it really doesn't take much of it. I think I had to take 20mg maybe twice and I was home free. Before that I had horrible withdrawals.....The shocks...etc.etc.
Posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 18:19:39
In reply to Re: Happy with Effexor, posted by TanyaJean on May 5, 2004, at 13:31:27
>
> >
> > Nothing like a little common sense people, just taper off very slowly,
> > daily. I believe that between now and mid July there will be
> > laws ready to get placed that will make the prescribing
> > physician responsible for explaining the withdrawl process.
> > I suppose the reason this does not happen now is because the patient
> > is just getting started on something hopefull, so why talk about
> > when they should stop it? I still feel that some folks
> > just do not want to take responsibility for their choices.
> > Why even agree to start something and do it, if you're
> > really doubtful about it and ready to blame should
> > it less than meet your expectations? 'Nuf sed
>
>
> Well, can't speak for anyone else, but you know, I didn't have doubts about EFFEXOR because I had been on other anti-depressants and really thought this was another in the long line of them. How are we to know unless we experience it?
>
> Sure, NOW those of us who had bad reactions know, but there was no way for us to know then.
>
> And yes, I did taper off SLOWLY. 4 total months of slowly tapering off EFFEXOR, little by little.
>
> It's pretty difficult for me to sit around and tell people they should take responsibility and feel smug, especially since a lot of us had no clue this was going to happen to us.
>
> Trust me, had I had any idea, I would never have touched it.I do understand what you are saying. The way you feel
about your effexor experience is how I feel about my Wellbutrin
experience. "Had I had any idea, I would never have touched it".
This whole take it Oprah stuff, is just surreal to
me. I apologize for sounding smug, I sure don't feel smug.
Take care.
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
In reply to Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by janey on November 1, 1998, at 16:30:34
But don't take my word for it.
If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
and
http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.htmlJoseph Glenmullen, MD
http://www.prozacbacklash.com/
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 1:50:06
In reply to You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
> But don't take my word for it.
>
> If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
>
> Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
>
> http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
> and
> http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.html
>
> Joseph Glenmullen, MD
> http://www.prozacbacklash.com/**As funny as the above may sound to people, I've heard quite a bit about that potato thing in regards to weight. Cutting out the sugars and starches basically, but having a potato at night to help people lose weight. Back when Fen-Fen was getting bad press, I remember seeing something about a woman who was eating a lot more protein, cutting out the white breads, sugars and starches, but eating a potato when she got home from work. It raised the seratonin levels. So it makes sense what this woman is saying about it affecting the mood factor. Right now I'm doing the South Beach diet. Sounds trendy, but it's really something that makes sense. First two weeks it's a lot of protein and vegetables, but then you introduce whole grain breads and non-tropical fruit into your diet. I happen to like tropical fruits though. I'm a sugar-a-holic so I know this has a lot to do with my moods. This is the whole reason I'm doing this South Beach thing, to hopefully get on track with my energy and mood level. I like it because it goes along with my vegetarian thing, whereas something like Atkins just does not.
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » maxziggy2002, posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 1:50:06
> > But don't take my word for it.
> >
> > If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
> >
> > Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
> >
> > http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
> > and
> > http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.html
> >
> > Joseph Glenmullen, MD
> > http://www.prozacbacklash.com/
>
> **As funny as the above may sound to people, I've heard quite a bit about that potato thing in regards to weight. Cutting out the sugars and starches basically, but having a potato at night to help people lose weight. Back when Fen-Fen was getting bad press, I remember seeing something about a woman who was eating a lot more protein, cutting out the white breads, sugars and starches, but eating a potato when she got home from work. It raised the seratonin levels. So it makes sense what this woman is saying about it affecting the mood factor. Right now I'm doing the South Beach diet. Sounds trendy, but it's really something that makes sense. First two weeks it's a lot of protein and vegetables, but then you introduce whole grain breads and non-tropical fruit into your diet. I happen to like tropical fruits though. I'm a sugar-a-holic so I know this has a lot to do with my moods. This is the whole reason I'm doing this South Beach thing, to hopefully get on track with my energy and mood level. I like it because it goes along with my vegetarian thing, whereas something like Atkins just does not.
>
>
>
>
hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist
Posted by harryp on May 8, 2004, at 7:18:57
In reply to You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » TanyaJean, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
"What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:36:20
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » TanyaJean, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
"hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist "
Yeah, but I'd rather do the potato thing because if I eat a donut or chips, then it would be going down that path of bad eating again, for me. Just a potato and then you are done. I haven't done this, but I may in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't hurt to try.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:52:37
In reply to The potato: Chemist, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
" Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
>
> "What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
>
> The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
>
>
>
> Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
>
> What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them."Isn't the above what anti-depressants do?
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:09:24
In reply to The potato: Chemist, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
um, thanks.....carbohydrates and sugars are not, as you state, an artificial source of serotonin: they contain no serotonin at all....and my post earlier stated that the actual serotonin content in potatos appears to be slim to none....and carbohydrates do *not* ``test high'' for serotonin, as you assert: upon consuming carbohydrates, serotonin production is stimulated.....all the best, chemist
> Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
>
> "What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
>
> The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
>
>
>
> Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
>
> What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them.
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:12:20
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:36:20
> "hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist "
>
>
> Yeah, but I'd rather do the potato thing because if I eat a donut or chips, then it would be going down that path of bad eating again, for me. Just a potato and then you are done. I haven't done this, but I may in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't hurt to try.absolutely, i agree, and 1 potato vs. a bag of chips or some doughnuts is clearly a healthier choice.....all the best, chemist
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
In reply to Re: The potato: Chemist » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:09:24
Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
> Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
>
> But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
>
> If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 18:52:25
In reply to Re: The potato » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
Forgive me "chemist". What did you say your PhD was in, neurology, psychology, or biochemistry?
Posted by seeknsolace on May 8, 2004, at 19:46:13
In reply to Re: The potato » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
chemist, I dont want to interupt the thread going on here, but after you previously posted your very indepth experiences.. types of meds you been on.. etc. I am wondering if you can give me some input on something, if you dont mind thru email.. if not its cool.. lemme know. kalka_a@yahoo.com
thanx.
amy
Posted by caleb96 on May 8, 2004, at 21:44:57
In reply to Re: The potato » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
> sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
>
> > Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
> >
> > But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
> >
> > If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdfAmen, Brother Chemist!
I'm also a biochemist by training and I thought the same thing reading max-z's post--he/she's right about nobody having all the answers, but as you well know, a BS, MS, and PhD in biochemistry do give us a heads-up on current knowledge of the scientific evidence.
Serotonin is a neurotransmitter made from the amino acid tryptophan, and (I'm not sure) may be found in very small amounts in potatoes--potatoes aren't exactly known for they're high protein content. If you want high doses of tryptophan eat dairy products and meat. Remember the old story about a Thanksgiving meal of turkey making you feel drowsy? But it won't alleviate one's depression.
Complex starches, like those found in potates, are a good way to avoid the crash affect some people feel when they eat lots of simple sugars which cause a rapid rise in blood glucose and consequent insulin release to remove it from the circulation. But to think you can treat your (major)depression by diet is probably just grasping at a placebo effect. A combination of exercise, diet, good friends and/or understanding spouse AND medical treatment are still the the best forms of support. I won't give up up my medicines because they complement my total support system.
Love & peace
Caleb
Posted by Kon on May 8, 2004, at 22:06:20
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by caleb96 on May 8, 2004, at 21:44:57
> Complex starches, like those found in potates, are a good way to avoid the crash affect some people feel when they eat lots of simple sugars which cause a rapid rise in blood glucose and consequent insulin release to remove it from the circulation
If you look at the glycemic index of different foods you will find that potatoes have relatively high glycemic responses(whether boiled or mashed. In fact, potatoes have a higher glycemic index than table sugar (sucrose). They also tend to have a relatively high insulin response.
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 22:20:16
In reply to Re: The potato » chemist, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 18:52:25
> Forgive me "chemist". What did you say your PhD was in, neurology, psychology, or biochemistry?
my Ph.D. was awarded in 1999 from the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the University of Texas at Austin. My first postdoctoral appointment was in the Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry at the University of California, San Francisco. My second postdoctoral appointment was in the Department of Chemistry at Princeton Univeristy. My former faculty position was as Assistant Professor in the Department of Chemistry at one of the University of Colorado campuses, and i was a visiting professor at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center in Denver, CO. i collaborate (not for compensation) with a privately-held pharmaceutical company, with the Molecular Design Group and focus on the general area of neurodegenerative diseases. all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 22:23:04
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by seeknsolace on May 8, 2004, at 19:46:13
sent.....all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 22:29:34
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by caleb96 on May 8, 2004, at 21:44:57
> > sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
> >
> > > Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
> > >
> > > But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
> > >
> > > If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
>
> Amen, Brother Chemist!
>
> I'm also a biochemist by training and I thought the same thing reading max-z's post--he/she's right about nobody having all the answers, but as you well know, a BS, MS, and PhD in biochemistry do give us a heads-up on current knowledge of the scientific evidence.
>
> Serotonin is a neurotransmitter made from the amino acid tryptophan, and (I'm not sure) may be found in very small amounts in potatoes--potatoes aren't exactly known for they're high protein content. If you want high doses of tryptophan eat dairy products and meat. Remember the old story about a Thanksgiving meal of turkey making you feel drowsy? But it won't alleviate one's depression.
>
> Complex starches, like those found in potates, are a good way to avoid the crash affect some people feel when they eat lots of simple sugars which cause a rapid rise in blood glucose and consequent insulin release to remove it from the circulation. But to think you can treat your (major)depression by diet is probably just grasping at a placebo effect. A combination of exercise, diet, good friends and/or understanding spouse AND medical treatment are still the the best forms of support. I won't give up up my medicines because they complement my total support system.
>
> Love & peace
>
> Calebcaleb, nice to meet you.....i don't necessarily think that our training makes us any more qualified to address issues that are clearly patient-specific or anecdotal, and i think you are on the same page, but please forgive me if i am making an assumption. i do think that our training does enable some of the more fundamental questions to be addressed, such as what you posted above (e.g., mechanisms of action, binding affinities, enzymatic pathways for metabolism, etc.). i am not on a ``high horse'' claiming anything other than a background that could be of use for certain matters. i also am on this board to listen to what people have to say about their experiences with meds/therapists as it pertains to me. it is a two-way street.....all the best, chemist
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 23:37:54
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by caleb96 on May 8, 2004, at 21:44:57
> > sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
> >
> > > Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
> > >
> > > But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
> > >
> > > If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
>
> Amen, Brother Chemist!
>
> I'm also a biochemist by training and I thought the same thing reading max-z's post--he/she's right about nobody having all the answers, but as you well know, a BS, MS, and PhD in biochemistry do give us a heads-up on current knowledge of the scientific evidence.
>
> Serotonin is a neurotransmitter made from the amino acid tryptophan, and (I'm not sure) may be found in very small amounts in potatoes--potatoes aren't exactly known for they're high protein content. If you want high doses of tryptophan eat dairy products and meat. Remember the old story about a Thanksgiving meal of turkey making you feel drowsy? But it won't alleviate one's depression.
>
> Complex starches, like those found in potates, are a good way to avoid the crash affect some people feel when they eat lots of simple sugars which cause a rapid rise in blood glucose and consequent insulin release to remove it from the circulation. But to think you can treat your (major)depression by diet is probably just grasping at a placebo effect. A combination of exercise, diet, good friends and/or understanding spouse AND medical treatment are still the the best forms of support. I won't give up up my medicines because they complement my total support system.
>
> Love & peace
>
> Caleb
Well, the above I don't care too much about. The depression thing could be argued and re-argued. I really like sugar and carbs which I know affect my mood, making me up and down. It's not something I've studied, I feel it in my body if I've had too much of starch/sugar. If I can stick to protien and vegetables and still have fruit and grains, just in less amounts, then I know I'll feel better. I also know a potato will curb about any craving I have so that I don't go off the deep end. One potato. As far as prozac vs. potatoes, if it works for people then that's great. For whatever reason it works for people, then it works. Potatoes will not harm most people. I found EFFEXOR harmed me in more ways than one...(harmed ME, not everyone)
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 1:14:29
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
I'd just like to point out, being an American of the Irish persuasion, that the National Vegetable of Ireland, being the Potato, is arguably a prevalent cause of the general good humor of the inhabitants of my ancestral homeland, above, beyond and inspite of our genetic predisposition to emotional maladies. I'd be more than happy to refer this august body to some of the best references in "Potato Theory", as referred to in an above post, but unless you can read Irish they won't be doing you much good.
Now, feel free to continue speaking the praises of this finest of tubers, and I'll raise a glass to one and all of ye.
flb
=^)PS. Me other half is Russian, and if anyone knows something better to do with a Potato than the Irish, it would be the Russians.
Posted by worm on May 9, 2004, at 1:28:20
In reply to Re: The potato ;^), posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 1:14:29
Thanks, finelinebob, for lightening up this discussion. I'll take my potato in the form of Vodka, please - seems to do wonders for my mood!
Posted by finelinebob on May 9, 2004, at 3:28:49
In reply to Re: The potato ;^), posted by worm on May 9, 2004, at 1:28:20
Tis a curse, it tis, havin' t' make light o'th' heavy as I do, but I take me duties in th' same spirit.
And, speaking of spirits, one shot of Stoly heading your way ... as soon as I can figure out how to attach it to this message.....
flb
Posted by seeknsolace on May 9, 2004, at 7:02:02
In reply to Re: The potato » caleb96, posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 23:37:54
> > > sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
> > >
> > > > Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
> > > >
> > > > But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
> > > >
> > > > If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
> >
> > Amen, Brother Chemist!
> >
> > I'm also a biochemist by training and I thought the same thing reading max-z's post--he/she's right about nobody having all the answers, but as you well know, a BS, MS, and PhD in biochemistry do give us a heads-up on current knowledge of the scientific evidence.
> >
> > Serotonin is a neurotransmitter made from the amino acid tryptophan, and (I'm not sure) may be found in very small amounts in potatoes--potatoes aren't exactly known for they're high protein content. If you want high doses of tryptophan eat dairy products and meat. Remember the old story about a Thanksgiving meal of turkey making you feel drowsy? But it won't alleviate one's depression.
> >
> > Complex starches, like those found in potates, are a good way to avoid the crash affect some people feel when they eat lots of simple sugars which cause a rapid rise in blood glucose and consequent insulin release to remove it from the circulation. But to think you can treat your (major)depression by diet is probably just grasping at a placebo effect. A combination of exercise, diet, good friends and/or understanding spouse AND medical treatment are still the the best forms of support. I won't give up up my medicines because they complement my total support system.
> >
> > Love & peace
> >
> > Caleb
>
>
> Well, the above I don't care too much about. The depression thing could be argued and re-argued. I really like sugar and carbs which I know affect my mood, making me up and down. It's not something I've studied, I feel it in my body if I've had too much of starch/sugar. If I can stick to protien and vegetables and still have fruit and grains, just in less amounts, then I know I'll feel better. I also know a potato will curb about any craving I have so that I don't go off the deep end. One potato. As far as prozac vs. potatoes, if it works for people then that's great. For whatever reason it works for people, then it works. Potatoes will not harm most people. I found EFFEXOR harmed me in more ways than one...(harmed ME, not everyone)
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>Im not so much writing about potatoes as the carb factor. I've noticed a couple things, 2 weeks after being off of effexor. The first week off, I was on prozac.. felt fine. After I finished my 1 weeks worth of prozac, got back to feeling nauseaus/body ached, but managed it.
After one week of this, I got a head/chest cold. I had only been sick one time, my two years on effexor. I am wondering if coming off, does something to the immune system or just purely coincidental. I've been so drugged up on cold meds, I'm not sure now how I'm tolerating being off effexor.
Now about a carb experience. During this past week, there was a down time of not having the cold meds in me, I had spaghetti for dinner. Immediately after I got done eating, prior to was feeling otherwise fine besides the cold, so I got done eating and got instantly nauseaus, body hurt really bad, just had a sudden urge to sleep, which carbs tend to do, but why the body ache and nausea? Again, maybe coincidental, but it was feeling of as when I was feeling the effexor withdrawal, also with the zaps.
Just some thoughts...
chemist.. thanks for replying, will respond soon. :)
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