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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 22:26:56
In reply to Marsha, are you taking the Klonopin... » 4WD, posted by Colleen D. on May 18, 2005, at 21:47:25
> in evenly spaced out (as possible) doses throughout the day? My pdoc likes 3 doses - 7 am, 3pm and bedtime. He says it's really inportant to keep the level steady in your body. I sympathize with you. At times my anxiety has been soooo horrible. I hope you find some relief soon.
>
> Colleen
Colleen,It makes me tear up when someone reads my posts and answers. I've spent so long feeling like my doctor doesn't know/care, that when someone seems like they DO care, I can't take it. Thank you. And you too Phillipa. And everyone who answered my post.
I try to take as little Klonopin as possible. I had been waiting til I got to the point of starting to pack for the hospital before I would take it. I had to stop that. I was going crazy.
I took .5mg this morning at 9 and none since. I will take another .25mg when I go to bed around 1am. I can't take it in early evening because it gives me restless legs and then I can't sleep. Even taking it in the morning causes me to have restless legs at night. Maybe as I get used to taking it the RLS will go away.
It also makes me apathetic and lethargic and deeply sad. (I told this to my doctor and he asked which was worse, that or the anxiety!)Sometimes I can't believe his lack of compassion. Surely there's another benzo that won't do all that. Anyway, I'll ask again at my next appt. (earliest available is late next week). In the meantime, I'll try your suggestion and maybe take .25mg t.i.d.
I have to laugh about one thing this doc said, though. When I asked if there was anything I could do about the dry mouth from nortriptyline, he said I could suck on a lemon.
And then I gave him his $160 and left.
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 22:28:25
In reply to Marsha, are you taking the Klonopin... » 4WD, posted by Colleen D. on May 18, 2005, at 21:47:25
Colleen,
Did you say Lexapro worked for your anxiety? Had you ever been on Celexa? I find Celexa not to be effective but I've heard many people say Lex worked for them.Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on May 18, 2005, at 22:57:06
In reply to Re: Marsha, are you taking the Klonopin... » Colleen D., posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 22:26:56
Marsha, The last post to you made me remember a time when I first was given klonopin to wean off xanax. One Sunday I said to my husband "I feel suicidal, but I don't want to die". We called the pdoc. He called back from his car phone. He spoke aloud to himself and said"it's the klonopin" that's what's making you feel that way. Go back on the xanax and stop the klonopin. I did and the feeling went away. It's funny how what someone says can trigger a past experience. Maybe you do need a different benzo. Just a thought. And we're here to help each other and listen when others won't. So don't tear up in anything other than thankfulness that you found this site and all the wonderful people here who care. I mean really care.Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Colleen D. on May 19, 2005, at 7:22:34
In reply to Re: Marsha, are you taking the Klonopin... » Colleen D., posted by 4WD on May 18, 2005, at 22:28:25
No. I take Klonopin and Effexor, plus 25mg of doxepin (TCA) at bedtime. No experience with Celexa. I used to take Zoloft, but it made me a zombie.
Again, good luck!
Colleen
Posted by lfitzge on December 12, 2015, at 9:52:47
In reply to Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by 4WD on May 17, 2005, at 22:21:29
> Marsha,
If you still post to this site, can you or anyone else tell me if any of you found some relief from the walking up terrors?
My partners story is exactly what Marsha went through. Looking for help.
Debbie
>
> I am sound asleep in the morning.
> Something wakes me up. I become aware that there is a feeling of nervous jitteryness/too much adrenaline racing around in my stomach and chest. I try to go back to sleep because it's too early to wake up but I can't. The fear has started.
>
> I get up and try to calm down by deep breathing, praying, going for a walk, not thinking about it, trying to read, getting busy. It doesn't work. The fear begins to mount. In an hour it isn't fear any more, it's terror. Then the thoughts begin to race around : "why is this happening to me? what is wrong with me? Why can't my doctor fix it?" I lose the ability to think rationally. I cannot believe it will ever end. There's no answer to it except to take a benzodiazepine and that terrifies me because if I take one today, I'll still have to take one tomorrow and soon I'll have taken one every day and I'll be dependent but the fear will still be lurking there just under the surface. Maybe worse than ever because now I'm benzo-dependent. "This must be something physical wrong with me. Or maybe it's because I was on Effexor so long and now I"m not. Maybe a different combo of drugs is what I need. But which ones. Maybe I need to pray harder. Maybe I should call my pdoc. Maybe I should call the endocrinologist." The thoughts start to circle round faster and faster and pretty soon I can't stand the terror anymore and I start to cry. Sometimes I end up crawling around on the floor, screaming at the ceiling "God, Please make it stop, make it stop MAKE IT STOP." But it doesn't stop. There is total despair. I cry and rage and then I just want to die to stop the pain. I start thinking what I will need to take to the hospital with me because I will have to go there to keep from killing myself.
>
> Somehow after crying and and screaming and moaning I will drag myself up and somehow find the will to keep going.
>
> And then somehow I've made it to night time. On a good day, I only have to make it til about 4 or 5. On a bad day I have to wait til 8pm or 11pm. Because then it starts to lift. By 8 or 10 or 11, I feel almost normal. Except I remember the horror. And I think I can't go through that again.
>
> And I wake up the next morning. Something wakes me up. The fear has started again.
>
> This has been my life since October. Some days are not this bad. Some days, it's fear not terror. But there is always fear that the terror is there, just waiting.
>
> I'm looking for any insight as to what is happening to me. My pdoc shakes his head. He doesn't know. The endocrinologist doesn't know. My therapist doesn't know. My husband doesn't know. I'm caught in an unbearable situation that doesn't have a solution.
>
> I was on Prozac for depression for nine years before it pooped out. I tried Zoloft, couldn't take the side effects. Then I was on Effexor XR for about four years when it quit working for depression. I had some anxiety before going on it - GAD. The Effexor took care of it. I didn't have much emotion on Effexor, couldn't cry at all. When it quit working a couple years ago I started trying different drugs. I switched to Celexa with no withdrawal problems but had insomnia and some mild anxiety and so switched back to Effexor. It still didn't work, so I tried Paxil. That was when the terror started. Ten days off Effexor and onto Paxil and I started getting scared. So I went back to Effexor. I tried Paxil again a few months later; same results, back to Effexor. In October, when Cymbalta came out, I tried it. After four weeks, terror. I stayed on Cymbalta for 4-5 months along with different APs but still, terror. In January, in desperation, I went back to Effexor. This time I was on it for two months and was still waking up scared with episodes of severe depression and fear.
>
> Now I'm on Celexa and Nortriptyline. If anything, the daytime terror is worse. I am seeing an endocrinologist, hoping he can find something physically wrong. My cortisol levels are three times normal but everything else seems normal or close to normal. I have a tiny pituitary tumor but the endocrinologist doesn't think it's causing this-the degree of terror is too great. I'm having all the tests anyway.
>
> If I go to the gym and spend 45 minutes on the treadmill going as hard and as fast as I can I get some temporary relief, a significant reduction in the terror. Why?
>
> Has anyone experienced this? Why does it usually go away at night? What in the name of God is happening to me?
>
> Marsha
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 12, 2015, at 12:53:58
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by lfitzge on December 12, 2015, at 9:52:47
> > Marsha,
> If you still post to this site, can you or anyone else tell me if any of you found some relief from the walking up terrors?
> My partners story is exactly what Marsha went through. Looking for help.
> Debbie
> >
> > I am sound asleep in the morning.
> > Something wakes me up. I become aware that there is a feeling of nervous jitteryness/too much adrenaline racing around in my stomach and chest. I try to go back to sleep because it's too early to wake up but I can't. The fear has started.
> >
> > I get up and try to calm down by deep breathing, praying, going for a walk, not thinking about it, trying to read, getting busy. It doesn't work. The fear begins to mount. In an hour it isn't fear any more, it's terror. Then the thoughts begin to race around : "why is this happening to me? what is wrong with me? Why can't my doctor fix it?" I lose the ability to think rationally. I cannot believe it will ever end. There's no answer to it except to take a benzodiazepine and that terrifies me because if I take one today, I'll still have to take one tomorrow and soon I'll have taken one every day and I'll be dependent but the fear will still be lurking there just under the surface. Maybe worse than ever because now I'm benzo-dependent. "This must be something physical wrong with me. Or maybe it's because I was on Effexor so long and now I"m not. Maybe a different combo of drugs is what I need. But which ones. Maybe I need to pray harder. Maybe I should call my pdoc. Maybe I should call the endocrinologist." The thoughts start to circle round faster and faster and pretty soon I can't stand the terror anymore and I start to cry. Sometimes I end up crawling around on the floor, screaming at the ceiling "God, Please make it stop, make it stop MAKE IT STOP." But it doesn't stop. There is total despair. I cry and rage and then I just want to die to stop the pain. I start thinking what I will need to take to the hospital with me because I will have to go there to keep from killing myself.
> >
> > Somehow after crying and and screaming and moaning I will drag myself up and somehow find the will to keep going.
> >
> > And then somehow I've made it to night time. On a good day, I only have to make it til about 4 or 5. On a bad day I have to wait til 8pm or 11pm. Because then it starts to lift. By 8 or 10 or 11, I feel almost normal. Except I remember the horror. And I think I can't go through that again.
> >
> > And I wake up the next morning. Something wakes me up. The fear has started again.
> >
> > This has been my life since October. Some days are not this bad. Some days, it's fear not terror. But there is always fear that the terror is there, just waiting.
> >
> > I'm looking for any insight as to what is happening to me. My pdoc shakes his head. He doesn't know. The endocrinologist doesn't know. My therapist doesn't know. My husband doesn't know. I'm caught in an unbearable situation that doesn't have a solution.
> >
> > I was on Prozac for depression for nine years before it pooped out. I tried Zoloft, couldn't take the side effects. Then I was on Effexor XR for about four years when it quit working for depression. I had some anxiety before going on it - GAD. The Effexor took care of it. I didn't have much emotion on Effexor, couldn't cry at all. When it quit working a couple years ago I started trying different drugs. I switched to Celexa with no withdrawal problems but had insomnia and some mild anxiety and so switched back to Effexor. It still didn't work, so I tried Paxil. That was when the terror started. Ten days off Effexor and onto Paxil and I started getting scared. So I went back to Effexor. I tried Paxil again a few months later; same results, back to Effexor. In October, when Cymbalta came out, I tried it. After four weeks, terror. I stayed on Cymbalta for 4-5 months along with different APs but still, terror. In January, in desperation, I went back to Effexor. This time I was on it for two months and was still waking up scared with episodes of severe depression and fear.
> >
> > Now I'm on Celexa and Nortriptyline. If anything, the daytime terror is worse. I am seeing an endocrinologist, hoping he can find something physically wrong. My cortisol levels are three times normal but everything else seems normal or close to normal. I have a tiny pituitary tumor but the endocrinologist doesn't think it's causing this-the degree of terror is too great. I'm having all the tests anyway.
> >
> > If I go to the gym and spend 45 minutes on the treadmill going as hard and as fast as I can I get some temporary relief, a significant reduction in the terror. Why?
> >
> > Has anyone experienced this? Why does it usually go away at night? What in the name of God is happening to me?
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> > Debbie,
You wrote,[...my partner...looking for help...].
I know what is happening relevant to your post, and can offer a way out. But first, is it you or someone else in this situation needing help?
Lou
>
>
Posted by SLS on December 12, 2015, at 15:13:21
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by lfitzge on December 12, 2015, at 9:52:47
Hi Debbie.
> If you still post to this site, can you or anyone else tell me if any of you found some relief from the walking up terrors?
> My partners story is exactly what Marsha went through. Looking for help.Does your partner have a diagnosed mental illness of any sort? This would include depression, bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder, PTSD, etc.
Any physical medical conditions?
Current medications?
At what age did these terrors first appear?
At what time at night does your partner experience these terrors?
Does he or she wake up during the terror?
Does your partner have nightmare dreams that can be remembered?
Any history of childhood abuse or neglect?
Sorry for all of the questions.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2015, at 19:44:18
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » lfitzge, posted by SLS on December 12, 2015, at 15:13:21
Scott I know Marsha not a Debbie? I don't think Marsha posts here but not certain. Friend on facebook. I could ask her? Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 12, 2015, at 20:08:57
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by lfitzge on December 12, 2015, at 9:52:47
Debbie,
I would like for you to view the following video. I am under great restrictions here due to prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. But you can see this video by bringing up Google and typing in:
[ youtube, xltCohsjjDY ]
usually first
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 12, 2015, at 20:15:52
In reply to Lou's request-preparation for deliverance » lfitzge, posted by Lou Pilder on December 12, 2015, at 20:08:57
> Debbie,
> I would like for you to view the following video. I am under great restrictions here due to prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. But you can see this video by bringing up Google and typing in:
> [ youtube, xltCohsjjDY ]
> usually first
> Lou
there is an error
Lou
Posted by SLS on December 12, 2015, at 21:55:19
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2015, at 19:44:18
> Scott I know Marsha not a Debbie? I don't think Marsha posts here but not certain. Friend on facebook. I could ask her? Phillipa
I thought Debbie was the author of the post by "lfitzge".
Anyway, it could be true sleep terrors (night terrors) or PTSD nightmares among other possible reasons. It is important to differentiate between them in order to determine which direction to go for proper treatment.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 13, 2015, at 21:11:39
In reply to error-Lou's request-preparation for deliverance, posted by Lou Pilder on December 12, 2015, at 20:15:52
> > Debbie,
> > I would like for you to view the following video. I am under great restrictions here due to prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. But you can see this video by bringing up Google and typing in:
> > [ youtube, xltCohsjjDY ]
> > usually first
> > Lou
> there is an error
> Lou
>
correction;
Lou
Go to Google and type in:
[ xtranormal, Xanax, klonopin ]
you will see the pic usually first
Posted by Hugh on December 14, 2015, at 9:42:01
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by lfitzge on December 12, 2015, at 9:52:47
Has your partner tried taking beta blockers? If not, taking one at bedtime might help.
Posted by SLS on December 14, 2015, at 10:14:52
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » lfitzge, posted by Hugh on December 14, 2015, at 9:42:01
> Has your partner tried taking beta blockers? If not, taking one at bedtime might help.
Would that be effective for both PTSD and sleep terrors?
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on December 15, 2015, at 9:32:48
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » Hugh, posted by SLS on December 14, 2015, at 10:14:52
If the sleep terrors are caused by an adrenaline surge, then a beta blocker could help.
The Atlantic published an article that describes how propranolol can be used to treat PTSD:
This story about using propranolol to treat PTSD was shown on 60 Minutes:
Part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhK0EX4G018&feature=related
Posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:21:53
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by Hugh on December 15, 2015, at 9:32:48
> If the sleep terrors are caused by an adrenaline surge, then a beta blocker could help.
>
> The Atlantic published an article that describes how propranolol can be used to treat PTSD:
>
> http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/ending-the-nightmares-how-drug-treatment-could-finally-stop-ptsd/252079/
>
> This story about using propranolol to treat PTSD was shown on 60 Minutes:
>
> Part one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhK0EX4G018&feature=related
>
> Part two: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJ-NLSyS_w&NR=1The main reason why I was looking to differentiate between sleep terrors and PTSD is that prazosin can suppress nightmares in that disorder. I don't know if this is also true of prazosin in sleep terrors.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:56:33
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » Hugh, posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:21:53
> The main reason why I was looking to differentiate between sleep terrors and PTSD is that prazosin can suppress nightmares in that disorder. I don't know if this is also true of prazosin in sleep terrors.
What I wrote here is confusing.
prazosin = PTSD
propranalol = PTSD
propranalol = sleep terrorsPrazosin can often suppress nightmares in PTSD completely, as well as reduce daytime depression and anxiety. However, it does not erase or reduce the strenth of PTSD memories as the 60 Minutes video suggests occurs with propranolol. I hope propranolol also improves chronic daytime anxiety and depression in addition to acute episodes.
Very interesting.
- Scott
Posted by Escapee on December 15, 2015, at 19:56:44
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:56:33
Sorry if anyones already mentioned this, but sounds like Hypnogogic hallucinations/Hypnagogia, or thats the accepted theory anyway. Can be scarey. Feels like my brain wakens before my body. So creating the feeling of weight holding u down. Thus creating the feeling of someone/something in the room with u. Sometimes other hallucinations but Its usually just sensations (being held or pulled down). Somepeople get the opposit, like feeling weightless like flying. Or, i often have the sensation of striding huge distances but being unable to slow down. Theres a few i have to share.
Escapee
Posted by Escapee on December 15, 2015, at 20:13:10
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by Escapee on December 15, 2015, at 19:56:44
Don't forget meds. Some meds are notorious for causing sleep disturbances. Trimipramine is one of the worst. Most SSRIs, but sertraline seems the worst. Agomelatine can be another culprit.
I've had hardly any such problems since adding quetiapine 250mg.
Of course the worst of the worst are sleep meds themselves! (or lack of)
Posted by Escapee on December 15, 2015, at 20:36:12
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:56:33
> > The main reason why I was looking to differentiate between sleep terrors and PTSD is that prazosin can suppress nightmares in that disorder. I don't know if this is also true of prazosin in sleep terrors.
>
> What I wrote here is confusing.
>
> prazosin = PTSD
>
> propranalol = PTSD
> propranalol = sleep terrors
>
> Prazosin can often suppress nightmares in PTSD completely, as well as reduce daytime depression and anxiety. However, it does not erase or reduce the strenth of PTSD memories as the 60 Minutes video suggests occurs with propranolol. I hope propranolol also improves chronic daytime anxiety and depression in addition to acute episodes.
>
> Very interesting.
>
>
> - ScottInteresting indeed. I recently requested a beta blocker from my pdoc, purely to help lessen the 'visible symptoms' of my SA. Things like shaking, hyperventilation, fast heart beat, blushing & sweating, etc. I asked for propranolol. Instead he gave me pindolol, and added that it has a unique separate beneficial effect on anxiety
End of ramble...
Posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 21:53:05
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by Escapee on December 15, 2015, at 20:36:12
> Interesting indeed. I recently requested a beta blocker from my pdoc, purely to help lessen the 'visible symptoms' of my SA. Things like shaking, hyperventilation, fast heart beat, blushing & sweating, etc. I asked for propranolol. Instead he gave me pindolol, and added that it has a unique separate beneficial effect on anxiety
> End of ramble...Pindolol is a drug that has at least two pharmacological properties:
1. Norepinephrine beta receptor antagonist
2. Serotonin 1a receptor mixed agonist/antagonistPerhaps it is #2 that accounts for the effects your doctor describes.
- Scott
Posted by Escapee on December 16, 2015, at 15:57:00
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by SLS on December 15, 2015, at 10:56:33
> > The main reason why I was looking to differentiate between sleep terrors and PTSD is that prazosin can suppress nightmares in that disorder. I don't know if this is also true of prazosin in sleep terrors.
>
> What I wrote here is confusing.
>
> prazosin = PTSD
>
> propranalol = PTSD
> propranalol = sleep terrors
>
> Prazosin can often suppress nightmares in PTSD completely, as well as reduce daytime depression and anxiety. However, it does not erase or reduce the strenth of PTSD memories as the 60 Minutes video suggests occurs with propranolol. I hope propranolol also improves chronic daytime anxiety and depression in addition to acute episodes.
>
> Very interesting.
>
>
> - ScottVery strange thing happening with pindolol. Especially in relation to the above. Were you saying the above meds can help PTSD?
Now I've only had a few doses.
I live with my father, who is a clinical hoarder! Cannot throw away thing if they remind him of the future. Things sit there and never get used. Dust on everything. Now, being the house I did most of my life (except school yrs). Now sinse starting pindolol I've starting gettin g dizzy spell especially If something reminds me of thing that happened there years ago.
Could this be PTSD working its way in? Sights and smells of the paqst are overpowering. Even a single thought of such things causes it. Seems extremely strong. Like the split second one of my thoughts will pop up. And the dizziness is extreme. More like vertigo. Its an instant reaction to a past event, but theres lots of triggers. Well, alot has happened in this house. many bad memories. All baggage Ive carried around seems to be coming back with a vengeance! Does any of that make sense?
Posted by Escapee on December 16, 2015, at 16:02:16
In reply to Re: Morning Terror. Please, please read this. » SLS, posted by Escapee on December 16, 2015, at 15:57:00
> > > The main reason why I was looking to differentiate between sleep terrors and PTSD is that prazosin can suppress nightmares in that disorder. I don't know if this is also true of prazosin in sleep terrors.
> >
> > What I wrote here is confusing.
> >
> > prazosin = PTSD
> >
> > propranalol = PTSD
> > propranalol = sleep terrors
> >
> > Prazosin can often suppress nightmares in PTSD completely, as well as reduce daytime depression and anxiety. However, it does not erase or reduce the strenth of PTSD memories as the 60 Minutes video suggests occurs with propranolol. I hope propranolol also improves chronic daytime anxiety and depression in addition to acute episodes.
> >
> > Very interesting.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Very strange thing happening with pindolol. Especially in relation to the above. Were you saying the above meds can help PTSD?
> Now I've only had a few doses.
> I live with my father, who is a clinical hoarder! Cannot throw away thing if they remind him of the past. Things sit there and never get used. Dust on everything. Now, being the house I did most of my life (except school yrs). Now sinse starting pindolol I've starting gettin g dizzy spell especially If something reminds me of thing that happened there years ago.
> Could this be PTSD working its way in? Sights and smells of the paqst are overpowering. Even a single thought of such things causes it. Seems extremely strong. Like the split second one of my thoughts will pop up. And the dizziness is extreme. More like vertigo. Its an instant reaction to a past event, but theres lots of triggers. Well, alot has happened in this house. many bad memories. All baggage Ive carried around seems to be coming back with a vengeance! Does any of that make sense?
Posted by Escapee on December 16, 2015, at 16:27:04
In reply to Read this one the spelling is better, posted by Escapee on December 16, 2015, at 16:02:16
I have social anxiety disorder and i get the very same feeln when looking back at a recent embarrassing 'occurrence'. Spinning out. virtigo/emotional pain but which leaves within seconds.
Posted by mossybleu on January 8, 2016, at 22:40:25
In reply to Morning Terror. Please, please read this., posted by 4WD on May 17, 2005, at 22:21:29
Hello! I was just in tears reading your original post 4WD/Marsha. I have the SAME exact symptoms and I couldn't have explained it better. I am living a nightmare right now. I feel like I am in hell most of the day. The panic starts to lift some around 4 or 5. Sometimes I feel just fine in the evenings. But then I go to sleep and the nightmare starts all over the next day. I'm currently in a residential treatment facility and no one here (doctors) can figure out what is wrong with me. Does anyone have any leads or advice? I'm close to not being able to handle my symptoms anymore, but I don't want to go to the hospital. I may have to though. Please help if anyone has any clues. Thanks.
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