![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 97. Go back in thread:
Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on June 16, 2009, at 8:04:26
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 15, 2009, at 20:08:50
> > >I haven't tried mirapex, parnate, or >nortriptyline, but I have tried Lexapro, Prozac, >Zoloft, Paxil, Geodon, Seroquel, Abilify, and >Lamictal.
> >
> > Excuse me?? You want to undergo what could be irreversable brain damage before even trying any of the good medications? The medications you have tried are a waste of time. Clearly you don't respond medicatons that boost serotonin / lower dopamine.
> >
> > I don't think people really know what they're saying when they want ECT - especially when they havn't even tried medications that have a proven track record with treatment resistant depression. Obviously you are frustrated and hopeless - but come on, at least try a med with a little umph to it before resorting to ECT.
> >
> > If your doctor is honestly going to adminster ECT without even trying a TCA, MAOI, venlafaxine or dopamine agonist, he/she is *not* a very wise or prudent doctor.
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well it's ME who wants to administer the ECT, the doctor WAS going to recommend it, until both my parents said outright that they don't want me getting it, and the doctor sided with them.
>
> I have to admit, I'm not thinking completely clearly in the state that I'm currently in, so I'm subject to carelessness when it comes to decisions regarding my health. I'm just so frustarated that SSRI's haven't worked like they did in the past. All I needed before was just Paxil and it worked beautifully. Now this time around, I seem to be resisting the SSRI's due to my "strange" symptoms. Here are some of my symptoms:
>
> -Anhedonia
> -Loss of some involuntary movements (eyes blinking; it seems like I have to manually blink or I have an altered eye blink rate)
> -Low libido
> -Head feels very light/like a feather almost
> -Altered sense of surroundings/environment
> -Altered sense of time
> -No sense of pleasure/euphoria
>
> So you're suggesting that I try something like Parnate, Nardil, or maybe even Deprenyl? Out of the three, I think I'm going to try deprenyl first.
>
> Here's the combo that I'm going to be on: Deprenyl, Lithium, and Geodon. I want to try Lithium because I've never tried it and I heard it's good for treatment-resistant depression.
I think you need to try meds that works strongly on dopamine. From what I hear about parnate, I think you should give it a try.
Posted by alchemy on June 16, 2009, at 11:02:09
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 2:16:39
Ya, ECT is scary and a hard decision. There are some people who don't have good stories. I didn't have any cognition problems (that's not usually a side effect) - I'm still as smart as I use to be :). But the memory problems (a common effect) could be an issue.
I suggest finding some unbiased information. There is the web & probably some books. My decision came from how miserable I was (caused by med trials that made me worse) and talking to some people that had done it (hearing first hand their positive stories). I would do it again if I ever became that bad.
Good luck.
Posted by terrysb on June 16, 2009, at 23:32:34
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 0:25:02
I live in the DC area (Northern Va.). If you want a recommendation let me know. I'm still new here so not sure how to convey something privately.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 16, 2009, at 23:32:34
Thank you so much! I could give you my email? Then everyone would have it but I don't really care. Or, it you aren't comfortable with that you can just tell me here. I don't care. Unless you don't want to reveal your doctor or the doctor's name on this forum. I may be going into the hospital in the next few days so I might be good. I would still love to get a recommendation.
Posted by alchemy on June 17, 2009, at 10:35:59
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
another fyi, when I was briefly in the hospital, one of the workers mentioned that he had seen how helpful ect was. He said it was like the seizures somehow rejumbled your brain into a better state. (for most people, not all)
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 15:19:15
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
If you could put up your email I will contact you.
Posted by Phillipa on June 17, 2009, at 19:58:03
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 15:19:15
Your babblemail is on his isn't if you both use babblemail it will be private. Phillipa
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 20:45:15
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 1:04:52
> Thank you so much! I could give you my email?
Turn on your babblemail and I will send you the information.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 23:18:39
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 20:45:15
Ok, I'm not functioning great right now and need a tip on how to turn on my Babblemail.
Posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 23:54:57
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 17, 2009, at 23:18:39
Follow the registration link and update your registration. There should be a check box that lets you turn babblemail on.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 18, 2009, at 5:35:12
In reply to Re: ECT » morganpmiller, posted by terrysb on June 17, 2009, at 23:54:57
> Follow the registration link and update your registration. There should be a check box that lets you turn babblemail on.
Yeah I thought it was as simple as that. I was just feeling like a pile of crap earlier. Mixed state combined with headache and fatigue not good. I did it. So you can babblemail me now. I appreciate it!
Posted by terrysb on June 18, 2009, at 17:50:26
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 18, 2009, at 5:35:12
> So you can babblemail me now. I appreciate it!
Sent. If you don't get it post here again.
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:10:10
In reply to Re: ECT was good for me, posted by morganpmiller on June 16, 2009, at 1:25:21
Even if ECT does work in the short term, why would you take something that is not going to have a lasting effect and *may* exert neurotoxic effects (possible worsening the long term prognosis?)
I mean if you just want a short term boost why not try psychostimulant augmentation. It probably produce less collateral dammage.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:13:54
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on June 16, 2009, at 8:04:26
When people are depressed they just look for the evidence that *they* want to see and hear.
If I want to hear that ECT is safe and effective, I can find evidence that it is. If I want to find evidence that it causes damage, I can find it.
I can understand your pain, but just don't get tunnle vision over something like this. I find a lot of people get tunnle vision when they are depressed.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:19:28
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by alchemy on June 17, 2009, at 10:35:59
>another fyi, when I was briefly in the hospital, >one of the workers mentioned that he had seen >how helpful ect was. He said it was like the >seizures somehow rejumbled your brain into a >better state. (for most people, not all)
Well thats where the debate starts. Seeing as most of the positive data was done by a man who had strong financial ties to a company which manufactures ECT machines, I'd say there is *serious* need for reinvestigation of the data.
More recent data suggests that earlier statistics could be moderatly to drastically overblown. Also, there is evidence that the collection of data regarding cognative side effects has been significantly compromised.
I know several people who have had ECT, many of whom would say they would not do it again.
For goodness sakes, shop around. Don't just look for one sucess story and bank on that. You can probably find personal accounts of you-tube.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:21:18
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:19:28
But you probably don't want to hear that.
Linkadge
Posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:21:18
Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my pleasure. I just don't know if medicine is going to cut it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, that's a huge indicator that something is really, really wrong.
Posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 0:55:24
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
I do not post here much anymore, but the ECT posting caught my attention.
I had ECT, Right unilateral, over two years ago. I had 7 treatments and quit as I was getting really confused and disoriented, and it was not clearing up. I just finished neuropsychological testing and saw a behavioral neurologist. I have cognitive deficts now that have not gottent better like word retrieval problems, slow processing of information, word fluency problems, lots of visual-spatial problems, can't read and retain anything new now for more than 24 hours. I too like someone else have to do mapquest whenever I am going somewhere as I get really disoriented. I have right-left spatial problems, and I could go on. I have been diagnosed with ECT cognitive decline. Lost over 20 IQ points. Not one bit funny.
Believe me if you think you are suicidal now or getting there, think about what it would be like to be suicidal and brain damaged.
I later took Parnate at a higher dose than the Pdoc I had was willing to do. He just kept pushing ECT which I finally gave in to and did. Parnate worked very well for me, and now I am no longer on any antidepressant medications as I have a really good analyst I see. I am also starting cognitive rehabilitation with a neuropsyhcologst/rehab specialist next week.
My neurologist said I had certain vulnerabilities that made me even more susceptible to damage from ECT. These include two concussions when I was younger, a family history of Parkinson's on both sides of my family, and also some other things. He said no one escapes memory deficits from ECT. They will tell you that it is only for the time right before and after the ECT, but they now also are seeing that the new parameters are not necessarily better, and the anesthetics mean you need a higher charge, etc. I had five times the seizure threshold level. I would not recommend that to anyone. Now brain damaged.
Zeba
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:11:38
In reply to Re: ECT - tunnle vision, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2009, at 17:13:54
> When people are depressed they just look for the evidence that *they* want to see and hear.
>
> If I want to hear that ECT is safe and effective, I can find evidence that it is. If I want to find evidence that it causes damage, I can find it.
>
> I can understand your pain, but just don't get tunnle vision over something like this. I find a lot of people get tunnle vision when they are depressed.
>
> LinkadgeI agree with people wanting to see what they want when they are afflicted with something and feeling desperate for an answer.
I have hear by the way that many have benefited in the long run by ECT.
I am not going to go through with ECT even though it was heavily pitched at me by an ECT specialist.
I do believe that currently there are ways of using ECT to not only improve effectiveness, but also greatly reduce risks.
I also believe that there is a particular subset of depressed patients out there who may only be saved by ECT. While there may be some ECT horror stories, especially in the past, there are many stories of people claiming that ECT saved their lives.
I do think it should be the last and final option for severe depressives. At least until there is a day where there are virtually no dangers with a treatment like ECT. This may or may not happen. I believe it is very possible. Just like I believe it is likely one day that medications will be virtually free of damaging side effect. By then, medication may not even be used anymore. Within our life time, we may see treatments that repair the damage to our brains and restore normal function permanently.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:20:04
In reply to Re: ECT » Rdragon, posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 0:55:24
Thanks for your post! I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience to ECT. Yeah I have had a mild concussion or two. I won't ever be considering ECT, that is for sure.
I do think it is possible one day to develop something similar to ECT that does not carry the risks. Right now, i guess, that is beside the point.
I am amazed that you are not on medication. Can you share you experience with us and tell us exactly how you are medication free?
Are you doing or have you done any neurofeedback?
I think you may be fortunate to live in a time where we may be on the brink of finding ways to heal the brain with new developments like the use of stem cells. Hopefully one day in the near future you will be able to make a near full recovery. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
Posted by Meltingpot on June 20, 2009, at 18:15:57
In reply to Re: ECT » Rdragon, posted by Zeba on June 20, 2009, at 0:55:24
Hi,
Do you go by another name called Kesa by any chance?
Denise
Posted by Meltingpot on June 20, 2009, at 18:18:37
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:20:04
Well all I can say is that if this person is not taking any medication at all then really they can't be that bad! Maybe the ECT helped with the depression after all.Denise
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:11:06
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Rdragon on June 19, 2009, at 22:36:14
>Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT >is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've >had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this >has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my >pleasure.
Ok, well thats depression. If you haven't taken some of the more effective medications I don't know why you would be willing to take such risks.
BTW, ECT is not approved for fixing messed up blinking.
>I just don't know if medicine is going to cut >it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, >that's a huge indicator that something is >really, really wrong.
As far as I remember, messed up blinking isn't a symptom of depression (??)
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:19:24
In reply to Re: ECT - tunnle vision, posted by morganpmiller on June 20, 2009, at 1:11:38
>While there may be some ECT horror stories, >especially in the past, there are many stories >of people claiming that ECT saved their lives.
See this is exactly what I mean. Proponents of ECT use words like *some* people have horror stories. I am not saying it doesn't benifit some people I am saying that more than just *some* people have horror stories. I have heard more horror stories than positive ones. And until somebody wants to publish some *unbiased* data on the matter, I'd assume things are a little biased.
>I do think it should be the last and final >option for severe depressives.
There is no last option. There are an infinite number of combinations of drugs, supplements, surgical procedures, and therapy which I am surprised people havn't tried first.
Oh, and the last procedure isn't always the best. I think people subcontiously equate risky and controversial with effective. The 'effectiveness' of ECT is, in my opinion, bolstered to justify controversial and risky.
Linkadge
Posted by Rdragon on June 20, 2009, at 19:21:06
In reply to Re: ECT, posted by linkadge on June 20, 2009, at 19:11:06
> >Look, the only reason I'm even contemplating ECT >is because for me, it really is THAT bad. I've >had thoughts of suicide cross my mind, and this >has messed up EVERYTHING from my blinking to my >pleasure.
>
> Ok, well thats depression. If you haven't taken some of the more effective medications I don't know why you would be willing to take such risks.
>
> BTW, ECT is not approved for fixing messed up blinking.
>
> >I just don't know if medicine is going to cut >it. But yeah, my freaking blinking is messed up, >that's a huge indicator that something is >really, really wrong.
>
> As far as I remember, messed up blinking isn't a symptom of depression (??)
>
> LinkadgeThen what is approved for fixing messed up blinking? Lol, the best way I can describe this problem is that it's like I almost have to manually blink, like it's messed with something neurologically and chemically.
And I definitely have the symptoms of depression, just some other strange symptoms which can't really be categorized.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.