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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by joe schmoe on February 10, 2013, at 19:42:40
In reply to 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on December 8, 2012, at 14:26:40
Well a few days ago I continued the gradual taper down to .25 mg AM/.125 mg PM (daily baseline of 1 mg/1mg clonazepam).
Starting to get some really unpleasant withdrawal effects. Had some bad social anxiety at .25/.25 but at .25/.125 I really have started getting weird symptoms like tingling and numb hands when I wake up, stiff neck, the runs, sweating, racing heartbeat etc.
No fun. Drinking alcohol helps in the evenings to some extent. Not recommended I know, but, I need some relief now and then.
Also am very sensitive to stimuli now, every sound seems too loud. On the plus side, sexual sensation is greatly enhanced.
Posted by herpills on February 17, 2013, at 7:30:14
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 10, 2013, at 19:42:40
Thank you for sharing your update. I had what you are experiencing in regards to being sensitive to sound, with things sounding louder. Actually sometimes things that are loud would also sound muffled to me.Which do you find more bothersome, the mental withdrawal symptoms like social anxiety, or the more physical withdrawal symptoms?
Good luck your taper and let us know how it goes, herpills
Posted by joe schmoe on February 18, 2013, at 16:37:20
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by herpills on February 17, 2013, at 7:30:14
> Which do you find more bothersome, the mental withdrawal symptoms like social anxiety, or the more physical withdrawal symptoms?
Depends on where I am. If I am alone at home, the physical symptoms are what bother me. If I am in a social situation (like work) the anxiety is of more concern.
Posted by joe schmoe on February 18, 2013, at 17:00:53
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » herpills, posted by joe schmoe on February 18, 2013, at 16:37:20
I should add I just had an unsettling experience at the store, I forgot my PIN number for my debit card.
Never done that before. I am sure it is related to the clonazepam taper (down to .125 AM / .125 PM as of Saturday). Hitting some turbulence.... I am hoping to reduce to none AM / .125 PM in a week and a half or so, and then a week and a half after that, to be done.
My memory is definitely not what it used to be. But is it middle age, or a decade of klonopin?
Posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 18, 2013, at 17:00:53
Been at .125/.125 for a week. Very unpleasant. My chest/ribcage muscles were so tight yesterday that it hurt to yawn. My neck often tightens up when I am trying to go to sleep as part of some kind of anxiety attack. Have trouble getting to sleep and I wake up early, resulting in an increasing sleep debt. Minor sensory disturbances are frequent and often make me wonder if I really heard something or not.
Drinking alcohol in the evening gives some relief for a while. It hits me a lot harder than it used to, so I am getting convinced of the benzo/alcohol cross tolerance thing.
I think I will stay at this dosage for longer than I planned, until the unpleasant effects are reduced. I have a feeling that lowering the dosage now would be extremely unpleasant.
Posted by herpills on February 23, 2013, at 8:53:24
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
Yes Joe I agree you should stay at that dose for awhile. Feel better. herpills
Posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 8:19:02
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
Joe, Have you tried a small amt of melatonin to help get your sleep back on track? A pharmacist told me I could try a small dose to help with that when Ive tried(been unsuccessful) to lower my klonopin dose.
Posted by joe schmoe on February 28, 2013, at 16:35:11
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 8:19:02
> Joe, Have you tried a small amt of melatonin to help get your sleep back on track? A pharmacist told me I could try a small dose to help with that when Ive tried(been unsuccessful) to lower my klonopin dose.
No. That's an interesting idea, it never occurred to me.
I haven't taken melatonin in a very long time. I seem to recall that the best dose was around 300 mcg, which was hard to find since most of the doses sold were 3 mg or more. Supposedly a dose of 3 mg would be so large that it would cause paradoxical effects and actually result in insomnia.
Have you taken it? If so what dose did you try and did it work?
Posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 17:17:22
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on February 28, 2013, at 16:35:11
Joe, I have a bottle of it, however,Ive never taken one! I didnt taper my klonopin,so I really didnt need it. I have a panic response the first time I take any new medicine,so I was afraid to take it when I did try to taper. But supposedly it helps people with sleep when tapering off a benzo. I have a friend who takes melatonin every night,loves it. She's not on any psych meds though.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 7:00:40
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by herpills on February 17, 2013, at 7:30:14
Last night I decided to lower my dose again, so I didn't take my evening dose. So now I am at 0.125 mg in the morning and that's it.
Usually there is a three day delay before I feel a dosage reduction but last night I felt it immediately as I got weird sensations in my head, tight neck, little anxiety attacks etc as I lay in bed trying to get to sleep.
I am sure it will only get more fun in the next few days.
Weird effects continue. I have gone from a great increase in libido and sexual sensation at first, to virtual sexual anesthesia lately, during this taper. Very strange. Makes me wonder where I will end up.
Posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 10:23:32
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 7:00:40
I admire you for continuing on, I know it must be very difficult. I cannot stand the feeling of lowering my dose of k. Maybe one day, I can
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:29:21
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 10:23:32
Today my lips alternated between numb and tingling. I was in a store looking at melatonin bottles and jumped when a store employee behind me asked if I needed help. I also have heard a high pitched whine all day anytime the background noise was low (work is often quiet as a tomb, so I heard it a lot).
Klonopin withdrawal is like a box of chocolates, you never know what symptom or sensory distortion you'll get next. At this point I just shake my head and laugh at the ridiculous parade of symptoms. At least the sheer variety and randomness of them is somewhat entertaining.
The worst ones I think are the weird panic sensations when I am trying to go to sleep, it feels like I am about to have a seizure. At least I imagine that is what it feels like, since I have never had one to my knowledge. At work I have had severe anxiety, inability to look people in the eye for very long without my neck muscles stiffening and trembling etc. but I tell myself they probably can't tell, and even if they can, who cares. Lots of strange people at work, I'm no weirder than the rest of them.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:31:16
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on February 28, 2013, at 17:17:22
I got some melatonin at the store, 1 mg tablets, I plan to break them in half.
Tonight will be interesting.
Posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 16:41:10
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 16:31:16
I sure hope you do not have too much trouble tonight,although, as you said, you never know what you may get. Please let me know if there is any relief with the melatonin on board.
Posted by phidippus on March 1, 2013, at 19:43:23
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering?, posted by joe schmoe on February 22, 2013, at 6:48:28
You've probably accrued some tolerance, which would mean you need to up your dose a little.
Drinking will help anxiety, as alcohol agonizes GABA receptors, plus it is an NMDA antagonist. Unfortunately, alcohol is not the best medicine, as its side effects can be devastating.
The best way to treat anxiety is with an SSRI or other antidepressant. ADs treat the root of the problem, where as benzodiazapines throw a blanket over the fire.
Eric
Posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 19:55:58
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » joe schmoe, posted by phidippus on March 1, 2013, at 19:43:23
> You've probably accrued some tolerance, which would mean you need to up your dose a little.
>
> Drinking will help anxiety, as alcohol agonizes GABA receptors, plus it is an NMDA antagonist. Unfortunately, alcohol is not the best medicine, as its side effects can be devastating.
>
> The best way to treat anxiety is with an SSRI or other antidepressant. ADs treat the root of the problem, where as benzodiazapines throw a blanket over the fire.
>
> EricWell I am putting it to the test, since I am already on an SSRI (have been for almost as long as clonazepam). We'll see how I fare off clonazepam. I am not convinced that an SSRI can handle the kind of massive, altered-state social anxiety I have in the times it matters most, like job interviews. But I plan to take clonazepam and Inderal for such occasions as needed anyway.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » joe schmoe, posted by gadchik on March 1, 2013, at 16:41:10
Well the melatonin didn't help me stay asleep, and in fact it gave me rather frightful medical-related nightmares. Ugh.
Of course I am in the first days of another dosage drop in the clonazepam so that may be just too powerful an effect to overcome. I will keep trying it.
Posted by gadchik on March 2, 2013, at 12:16:30
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
Im sorry to hear that melatonin did not help,and it sounds like you had a rough night to boot. I guess I can cross that one off my list of helpful meds for benzo withdrawal. Have you tried remeron? I wonder if it would work for sleep in your situation? I have taken a crumb of that when Ive had trouble sleeping and it works,but next day hangover is not good.
Posted by phidippus on March 2, 2013, at 15:29:44
In reply to Re: 10+ years of Klonopin, poop out, tapering? » phidippus, posted by joe schmoe on March 1, 2013, at 19:55:58
Did you know that studies show Topomax is a good treatment for social anxiety?
Eric
Posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 11:18:17
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia » gadchik, posted by joe schmoe on March 2, 2013, at 11:23:29
Well last night I didn't have a nightmare, so that is a relief.
The melatonin does seem to make me really tired shortly after taking it. I think it does help me get to sleep. It will be interesting to see if it helps me stay asleep, it hasn't for the last two nights but like I said, the first few days of a dosage drop are particularly brutal.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 9:36:46
In reply to Re: melatonin for insomnia, posted by joe schmoe on March 3, 2013, at 11:18:17
Well I have been at 1/8 of a mg for the last ten days. I am thinking about stopping it later this week. I wonder if 1/8 is too large for a last dose, or whether I am ok to stop taking it altogether at that dose. After the first couple of days of going from 1/4 to 1/8, I have felt pretty good. Less side effects throughout the week and my mood seems to be improving more and more as I taper off clonazepam. I am starting to wonder if it was making me depressed. Note I am on celexa 20 mg.
Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose?, posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 9:36:46
Joe I couldn't take klonopin as you probably already know as posted before but it sure could be the reason for depression. As for the celexa at 20mg do you feel it does anything. Seriously I've cut luvox to 12.5mg and upped it's sister lexapro to 7.5mg and find I don't sleep nearly as well. I also feel strange. Still taking low dose benzos. Years ago I found I felt better minus ad's and just benzos? I did take celexa and found it completly different from lexapro? I'm glad you have been able to cut down. Goal off all benzos? Phillipa
Posted by gadchik on March 10, 2013, at 12:15:06
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
Thanks for sharing ur success in tapering k. I know its hard, but seems like u have done well. This gives others hope that they too can do this. I would ask a pharmacist about the last drop. Congrats!!!
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 12:32:40
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose? » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2013, at 10:10:41
> As for the celexa at 20mg do you feel it does anything.
Yes I've been off it a number of times and I always relapse into depression without it after four or five months. I also think it helps me with general stress and rejection sensitivity. My mother can tell just from the sound of my voice on the phone whether I am on it or not.
>Seriously I've cut luvox to 12.5mg and upped it's sister lexapro to 7.5mg and find I don't sleep nearly as well.
I have no experience with luvox and little with lexapro since it was not generic for a long time and thus more expensive. I haven't tried it since it went generic since celexa seems to work for me most of the time.
> I also feel strange.
I have felt strange on most meds I have tried, LOL. Especially AD's. Had to give up Viibryd after six months because I was feeling weirder and weirder.
> Still taking low dose benzos. Years ago I found I felt better minus ad's and just benzos? I did take celexa and found it completly different from lexapro? I'm glad you have been able to cut down. Goal off all benzos? Phillipa
I have tried just clonazepam and no AD's several times and I tend to get depressed.
Right now I seem to be functioning fairly well on almost no clonazepam at all, so I think I am going to go back to just taking it if I have a serious social performance situation like a job interview or presentation.
Posted by joe schmoe on March 10, 2013, at 12:35:38
In reply to Re: klonopin last dose?, posted by gadchik on March 10, 2013, at 12:15:06
> Thanks for sharing ur success in tapering k. I know its hard, but seems like u have done well. This gives others hope that they too can do this. I would ask a pharmacist about the last drop. Congrats!!!
Well I'm not off it yet but I am close. Been tapering for about 3 and a half months.
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