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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by beckett2 on March 30, 2018, at 10:16:01
Day three of Tianeptine powder, and today, a slightly brighter mood.
Has anyone here tried or taking it?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2018, at 16:48:54
In reply to Tianeptine, posted by beckett2 on March 30, 2018, at 10:16:01
> Day three of Tianeptine powder, and today, a slightly brighter mood.
>
> Has anyone here tried or taking it?Never taken it personally.
It was initially claimed to be some form of serotonin re-uptake enhancer, which didn't entirely make sense. It wasn't based on proper evidence and was probably nonsense!
More recent evidence suggests that it acts as some form of agonist or modulator at mu-opioid receptors. This sounds more plausible.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28303899
In spite of what it says above, there are plenty of reports of tolerance and withdrawal after high doses of tianeptine have been used. I would therefore say it's something which should be dosed very carefully, to avoid risks.
Posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:14:08
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 30, 2018, at 16:48:54
> > Day three of Tianeptine powder, and today, a slightly brighter mood.
> >
> > Has anyone here tried or taking it?
>
> Never taken it personally.
>
> It was initially claimed to be some form of serotonin re-uptake enhancer, which didn't entirely make sense. It wasn't based on proper evidence and was probably nonsense!
>
> More recent evidence suggests that it acts as some form of agonist or modulator at mu-opioid receptors. This sounds more plausible.
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28303899
>
> In spite of what it says above, there are plenty of reports of tolerance and withdrawal after high doses of tianeptine have been used. I would therefore say it's something which should be dosed very carefully, to avoid risks.
>
>
>
>Hi Ed, I've read similar reports-- and reddit turns up under a search for Tianeptine-- folks taking tons and discussing their addiction and withdrawal. I find it spooky. So yeah, there's that. I'll see how I feel in the morning. Mornings are terrible, and between morning and afternoon, I'm a different person. I have no idea how this works or what it is (a tricyclic?).
I'm hoping-- I could supplement daily, small amount like 12mg.
Thanks for the cautionary word-- I appreciate it.
Btw, you asked about tobacco sales. I think each state is different. In California, those 21 and over can purchase it-- and you can see the packs, usually behind glass, wildly expensive, near $8 a pack.
But I thought of you when I came across this article about coffee in California: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/business/coffee-cancer-warning.html?emc=edit_ne_20180330&nl=evening-briefing&nlid=5143128120180330&te=1
I am certainly addicted to coffee.What about you?
Posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:35:28
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » ed_uk2010, posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:14:08
Some of these people are young and heroic. As in.....
>And goodness people, just keep researching under like 300-500mg a day and you will be fine imo. Many heavy users that have tapered down from like 20g A DAY will even be like, weird, a 500mg dose just felt awesome. Less can be more in regard to so many psychoactive substances.
I took 37.5mg/d for a couple of years. It may have some sort of opioid effect. It mainly felt a bit dopaminergic to me. But there was no withdrawal from it in any way resembling that from a real opiate.
Posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:44:37
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:35:28
That's good to know sigi, because you know, after Xanax, I want nothing to do with those intense substances. And hydrocodone. That I took myself off-- that was tough.
As it is-- if I stopped my AD or lamictal--I'd be up a creek.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 31, 2018, at 0:45:50
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:35:28
has anti-depressant effect but it was nothing major, just content not anything more than that but it's a serotonin reuptake enhancer, meaning it enhances serotonin uptake making it move faster, yet prozac ...., which is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, you would think those 2 would cancel out because one is fighting against the other, prozac blocking reuptake while tianeptine is enhancing the reptake, yet noticed some mood improvement for a while for a weeks on it years ago
Posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:48:44
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:44:37
My calculator tells me that 20g is 1600 x 12.5mg.
Posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:54:30
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:35:28
I have had some lying around in a drawer for years.
This would not be the case with an opiate better than codeine.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 31, 2018, at 13:44:11
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 31, 2018, at 0:45:50
Hi RJ,
>hit's a serotonin reuptake enhancer, meaning it enhances serotonin uptake
It probably doesn't enhance serotonin reuptake at all. The idea was based on early and flawed research and assumptions.
So not surprising that you found it had beneficial effects as an add on to an SSRI.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 31, 2018, at 13:47:44
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » ed_uk2010, posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:14:08
Hi!
Didn't mean to be a downer. Just know it's important to be careful with the dose of this one.
>I am certainly addicted to coffee. What about you?
Must say no. I don't really enjoy it at all but I do drink it now and then!
Oh and cigarettes here are even more expensive than yours. I don't smoke but I know the prices are obscene.
Posted by linkadge on March 31, 2018, at 17:34:18
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » ed_uk2010, posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:14:08
Isn't it chemically related to amineptine (a dopamine reuptake inhibitor)?
I do think that tianeptine does increase serotonin reuptake (but just that the action doesn't fully explain its effects).
Supposedly tianptine is highly neuroprotective in stress induced depression models.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 31, 2018, at 17:36:27
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on March 31, 2018, at 0:44:37
>if I stopped my AD or lamictal--I'd be up a creek
It's ok to be up the creek without a paddle (you can just float back). If you're down-creek without a paddle. That's when you're in trouble.Linkadge
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 16:35:04
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 31, 2018, at 13:47:44
> Hi!
>
> Didn't mean to be a downer. Just know it's important to be careful with the dose of this one.
>
> >I am certainly addicted to coffee. What about you?
>
> Must say no. I don't really enjoy it at all but I do drink it now and then!
>> Oh and cigarettes here are even more expensive than yours. I don't smoke but I know the prices are obscene.
Not at all! It's nice to chat. I think it's making me tired, though. Maybe a little in the late afternoon. It does help (so far) with anxiety that has become problematic.
Minnesota legislation just made it a schedule ll, or it's pending approval of the governor.
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 16:43:36
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 31, 2018, at 13:47:44
*Michigan not Minnesota.
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 16:50:02
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 31, 2018, at 13:47:44
*Michigan not Minnesota.
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 16:51:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by linkadge on March 31, 2018, at 17:36:27
> >if I stopped my AD or lamictal--I'd be up a creek
>
>
> It's ok to be up the creek without a paddle (you can just float back). If you're down-creek without a paddle. That's when you're in trouble.
>
> Linkadge:-)
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 16:53:10
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 31, 2018, at 0:45:50
> has anti-depressant effect but it was nothing major, just content not anything more than that but it's a serotonin reuptake enhancer, meaning it enhances serotonin uptake making it move faster, yet prozac ...., which is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, you would think those 2 would cancel out because one is fighting against the other, prozac blocking reuptake while tianeptine is enhancing the reptake, yet noticed some mood improvement for a while for a weeks on it years ago
Hi rj, Did you add it to another AD?
Posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 17:01:31
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by sigismund on March 31, 2018, at 0:54:30
> I have had some lying around in a drawer for years.
>
> This would not be the case with an opiate better than codeine.It seems helpful for anxiety-- but I think fatigue might be a side-effect.
here's a translation for you: hasta mierda arroyo sin una paleta
Posted by ed_uk2010 on April 1, 2018, at 20:09:22
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » sigismund, posted by beckett2 on April 1, 2018, at 17:01:31
Hi,
That's really good that you feel calmer, even though you're having some fatigue. Do you feel positive about it?
So it's the powder form then? - how do you measure it out?
Posted by beckett2 on April 4, 2018, at 20:04:29
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by ed_uk2010 on April 1, 2018, at 20:09:22
> Hi,
>
> That's really good that you feel calmer, even though you're having some fatigue. Do you feel positive about it?
>
> So it's the powder form then? - how do you measure it out?
>Three little spoons came with the powder. The smallest was for 7-12 mg, (not very accurate, I know), and I started with three x. Then I went to one x. I think it's pretty strong stuff! Anyway, I discontinued as of Sunday night, and felt miserably uncomfortable, esp yesterday and today.
So I've shelved it. I have such chronic depression, I get a little desperate sometimes :( But I don't need yet another medication to withdraw from. I'd love to get off Ultram, but that seems insurmountable.
You know your pharmaceuticals, Ed :-)
Posted by SLS on April 5, 2018, at 9:37:56
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » ed_uk2010, posted by beckett2 on April 4, 2018, at 20:04:29
> I'd love to get off Ultram, but that seems insurmountable.
Have you tried Cymbalta?
- Scott
Posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2018, at 11:07:44
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by SLS on April 5, 2018, at 9:37:56
> > I'd love to get off Ultram, but that seems insurmountable.
>
> Have you tried Cymbalta?
>
>
> - ScottGood morning!
Would there be some way to move from one to the other to lessen withdrawals? (I realize Ultram is an opioid.)
The relief from Cymbalta was striking. At the time I didn't understand one could take zofran (like I do now). Most days I'd be doubled over on the bed.
Ultram has had a positive effect on my mood, but I've been on it for eight years, and I suspect my dosage mostly prevents withdrawal. Which is really bad--. And immediate.
Posted by SLS on April 5, 2018, at 14:39:28
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » SLS, posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2018, at 11:07:44
> > > I'd love to get off Ultram, but that seems insurmountable.
> > Have you tried Cymbalta?
> Good morning!
>
> Would there be some way to move from one to the other to lessen withdrawals? (I realize Ultram is an opioid.)Perhaps you can add Cymbalta (duloxetine) first and then taper the Ultram (tramadol) afterwards. Both Cymbalta and Ultram are SNRI, and I would hope that the presence of Cymbalta will reduce the SNRI component of Ultram withdrawal. Serotonin syndrome? I don't know. Lots of people take two SRIs at the same time. The Ki of Ultram for the SERT (serotonin transporter) is moderate at best - 1000.00. With Cymbalta, it is 0.50. The lower the number, the stronger the binding affinity.
> The relief from Cymbalta was striking.
In what ways?
> At the time I didn't understand one could take zofran (like I do now). Most days I'd be doubled over on the bed.
What did Cymbalta do to you?
What do you take Ultram for?
- Scott
Posted by beckett2 on April 5, 2018, at 18:30:30
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » beckett2, posted by SLS on April 5, 2018, at 14:39:28
Hello Scott,
>
> Perhaps you can add Cymbalta (duloxetine) first and then taper the Ultram (tramadol) afterwards. Both Cymbalta and Ultram are SNRI, and I would hope that the presence of Cymbalta will reduce the SNRI component of Ultram withdrawal. Serotonin syndrome? I don't know. Lots of people take two SRIs at the same time. The Ki of Ultram for the SERT (serotonin transporter) is moderate at best - 1000.00. With Cymbalta, it is 0.50. The lower the number, the stronger the binding affinity.Good advice. My concern is covering the opioid effect as well. Not sure how that might play out.
> > The relief from Cymbalta was striking.>In what ways?
Neuropathic pain and fibromyalgiac pain. That free floating always pain, I think, allodynia.
>
> What did Cymbalta do to you?Reduced background pain-noise.
> What do you take Ultram for?For the same effect. Works for neuropathic pain. I had a series of trials for pain relief, and Tramadol worked. Ah. In addition, my mood was positively affected. In fact, (as my doc as prescribed), if I take an additional tablet, which I occasionally do, I perk right up. Of course, if I did this often, this would no longer happen.
>You don't have chronic pain, do you? And have you taken Tramadol or cymbalta?
Posted by bleauberry on April 9, 2018, at 13:27:49
In reply to Tianeptine, posted by beckett2 on March 30, 2018, at 10:16:01
I tried it years ago. It felt sort of ok at first and I had hope. The longer I stayed on it, though, the worse I got. It was a slow deterioration.
My personal opinion is that this med is not as effective as it appears to be on paper.
But as with all of them, a personal trial is the only way to find out if it is helpful or not.
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