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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 222. Go back in thread:
Posted by Brio D Chimp on May 15, 2004, at 10:43:34
In reply to Re: Inconsistent Apologizing » Brio D Chimp, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2004, at 10:28:42
> > If he made "reparations" to you wouldn't that be unfair to all the others?
>
> Is that another way of saying, "Don't ask for the right thing to be done, because then everyone else will expect the right thing?"
No it was a way of asking for the right thing to be done for everybody.
>
> Maybe I should fake suicide, because that's a precendent-setting way to get a block reduced.Well don't expect me to ask if that is what you did since that is what got me blocked for 24 weeks! Not withstanding that Bob had left posts up saying that WAS what happened WITHOUT comment...asking if it was true was cause to be blocked for 6 months! Sorry for adding my personal tale to your Thread.
You have my sympathy.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2004, at 10:56:27
In reply to Re: Inconsistent Apologizing » Larry Hoover, posted by Brio D Chimp on May 15, 2004, at 10:43:34
> > Maybe I should fake suicide, because that's a precendent-setting way to get a block reduced.
>
> Well don't expect me to ask if that is what you did since that is what got me blocked for 24 weeks! Not withstanding that Bob had left posts up saying that WAS what happened WITHOUT comment...asking if it was true was cause to be blocked for 6 months! Sorry for adding my personal tale to your Thread.I have talked about that incident many times on the Admin board, quite literally and explicitly. If my mentioning it again leads to another block, my argument is most clearly proven.
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2004, at 11:06:36
In reply to Re: Inconsistent Apologizing » Brio D Chimp, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2004, at 10:28:42
> Maybe I should fake suicide, because that's a precendent-setting way to get a block reduced.
Please don't be sarcastic or joke about suicide. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting for another 6 weeks.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or email me, or redirect a follow-up here after your block is over.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 15, 2004, at 14:40:44
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2004, at 11:06:36
Dr Bob.. I do think this one is unfair.. In my eyes it wasn't a joke or sarcastic, but simply stating a fact that we all know to be true.
remember, you don't block for intent, and the words themselves are nothing but fact.
Nikki
Posted by shadows721 on May 15, 2004, at 16:46:43
In reply to Dr. Bob is a hypocrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2004, at 10:23:57
I don't know you, but I have read your posts and feel like I do. That's how babble has worked for me. It's an odd thing. We don't see each other or even hear each other's voice, but we do effect one another.
As a fellow sufferer with PTSD, I can understand the pain that you posted about from childhood. I think of Ptsd as a shadow player in my life. The pain of childhood comes back and repeats itself over and over again in other relationships as a shadow player in my life. I think often how is this pain reminding me of a pain in my past. Often, it is not my current pain that is really the problem. It is my unresolved pain of my past that needs my attention. What's really odd about this? It is my mind that is doing it all along? It feels terrible.
I am worried about you. I hope you will come back and possible make a new friend like me. I know that I could use a friend too. I tend to isolate myself, because of my ptsd symptoms. We can discuss things like this Ptsd topic.
I hope you will be safe in your weeks ahead. I care about you, my fellow babbler, and I hope to see you again. Sharing our past painful ptsd symptoms can help lighten this heavy load we carry inside.
Posted by SLS on May 16, 2004, at 13:28:41
In reply to Dr. Bob is a hypocrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2004, at 10:23:57
Hi Larry.
I want to post something, but I don't know what to say.
I would really like to fix things if I could, but I wouldn't know where to start.
Your emotions are very intense. I'm trying to appreciate them well enough so as not to underestimate their importance to you and everyone else. However, I'm sure I will. I still don't know what to say, though.
I'm very glad to see that you make no apology for, or feel the need to justify and validate, your feelings. That's very healthy.
I am very selfish.
I want you to let go of all of this crap and just start posting again on every board except for this one. I want you to be strong enough so as to be invulnerable to the judgments of Dr. Bob or anyone else. I want you to ignore the past and deal with any personal hurt and insecurities by yourself. I want you to be a bigger man than anyone who would have you be otherwise. I want you to look past their imperfections and move forward despite them. I want you to teach me. I want you to support me. I want you to care about me. I want you to love me.
I want you to start posting again in six weeks.
- Scott
Posted by spoc on May 16, 2004, at 13:40:49
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob is a hypocrite » Larry Hoover, posted by SLS on May 16, 2004, at 13:28:41
....now if *that* isn't a compelling and ingeniously conceived argument for why Larry should come back -- and feel good about it -- I don't know what is! Perfection, Scott! See? Everyone can (potentially) be validated by these outlooks, and be able to go on. I don't mean to minimize or underestimate anything, I just really thought that was beautifully said! :- )
Posted by karen_kay on May 16, 2004, at 21:02:07
In reply to Dr. Bob is a hypocrite, posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2004, at 10:23:57
i'm very sorry you are hurting right now. i do hope you find the support you need at home, as babble obviously isn't an option right now since you've been blocked. i'm sorry about that too. i hope you are well larry. and i hope that in time you do decide to return, as there are many, many people who would love to see you back again.
larry, take care of yourself.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 17, 2004, at 2:01:30
In reply to Re: blocked for 6 weeks » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2004, at 11:06:36
Hey, Hsiung!
wha up? check this out, man ... like you just blocked Hoover for six weeks, Right?
.... AND like you also blocked him last time for SIX WEEKS, right ?
see wha i'm sayin?
we thought you had a deal where you crank up the thumb screws ... heh, heh ... i meant ... increased the length of these bans as one's rap sheet gets longer ... ... ... Or has some new policy come in force ... gone out of force?now if you fix things so folks can say I got Hoover a longer ban ... ... i will scream, real loud, and then hold my breath really long ... ... and tell everyone that i think you're a ... ... some kind of bad person ... ... ... because i LIKE hoover, man! ... ... he's like, the coolest, daddy-o!
another thing ... ... since we wouldn't be doing any incivility here at pb ... how come words like "Pedophile" and "Hypocrite" in phrases (in subject line, for cripes sakes already) like "you are a ... " seem to be getting overlooked?
look i gotta a lot of other questions, you know ... but all this ca ca with banning Hoover is just too way out ...
okay listen, get back to me about these questions i'm asking here and we can get to the other ones, okay
1) so do bans increase in severity per incident/non-incident or not ... ... and was there underlying reason for this reprieve for Hoover ... ... like i Am in favor of cutting him some slack, okay? ... ... but ol' mentally challenged me wants to see the internal consistency here ...
and
2) speaking of consistency, the deal with "pedophile" and "hypocrite", huh? ... like what is it, these ain't compliments, man ... ...i'll be listening ...
caio,
~ ol' lil' jimi
Posted by mair on May 17, 2004, at 10:29:30
In reply to Re: Inconsistent Apologizing » Brio D Chimp, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2004, at 10:56:27
...gone the next. I'm sorry I wasn't around when you stopped back in. I'm sorry you haven't been doing well. I'd like to echo everything Scott said so beautifully. Please come back.
Mair
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2004, at 1:52:59
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob is a hypocrite » Larry Hoover, posted by SLS on May 16, 2004, at 13:28:41
Posted by SLS on May 18, 2004, at 7:15:51
In reply to Re: please keep the subject line civil too thanks (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2004, at 1:52:59
Sorry.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by lil' jimi on May 21, 2004, at 18:12:47
In reply to Re: please keep the subject line civil too thanks (nm), posted by Dr. Bob on May 18, 2004, at 1:52:59
dear rh, md
like, huh?
question number three-o:
are we just now civiling subject lines?
and/or
are we just catching up on an oversight of missing the subject line offenses before?
and/or
something else?still searching for a consistent grasp of the shape of policies-babble here ... ...
hoover man's sentence descrepancy remains a mystery .... .... any light?
love,
~ jim
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 22, 2004, at 0:18:27
In reply to Re: please keep the subject line civil too thanks » Dr. Bob, posted by lil' jimi on May 21, 2004, at 18:12:47
> are we just now civiling subject lines?
No, that's nothing new.
> hoover man's sentence descrepancy remains a mystery .... .... any light?
I think it's good to be flexible sometimes...
Welcome back,
Bob
Posted by lil' jimi on May 25, 2004, at 1:32:09
In reply to Re: subject line, posted by Dr. Bob on May 22, 2004, at 0:18:27
hi dr, bob,
> > are we just now civiling subject lines?
>
> No, that's nothing new.("civiling"? ... ... what a goof i am ... i hadn't noticed that till now ... thanks for understanding me there ... aka 'policing')
here's where i get in trouble see ... ... ...
my (others?) expectations of fairness hinge to a large extent on consistency ... ... and a consistency which may not be humanly attainable ... ... so that perhaps simple oversights might to perceived as tolerated, if not deliberate, unfairness ...
... my case in point being:
i imagined the most immediate sanctions would be triggered by the most immediate, direct, public offense, such as subject lines ... so my expectaions were that the subject lines would be policed first and offenses there would be indicators of offenses within a post ...
(... i am sorry that this is too obvious, but i feel i have to explain myself ... )because of these considerations, i presumed, incorrectly, that offensive terms in subject lines are not being overlooked accidently when the post's content has been cited for incivilty ... ... this is especially so when words such as "pedophile" and "hypocrite" remain in subject lines and persist in threads even after the posts have lead to pbcs and bannings ... ... i get to thinking there's some special status for subject lines ... ... which serves to undermine my (others?) confidence in the consistency of the application of the standards of civility ... or the standards themselves
... ... the challenge is that mere inadvertence can create ammo for a case of there being injustice ...
or is it just me?
> > hoover man's sentence descrepancy remains a mystery .... .... any light?
>
> I think it's good to be flexible sometimes...well, that is a good thing ... ... and i for one would like to see Larry extended every possible flexibility ... ... please?
> Welcome back,
>
> Bobwell, thank you ... ... i appreciate that ...
i still have some more qusetions but they can wait for now ...take care,
~ jim
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 26, 2004, at 9:19:41
In reply to re: subject line » Dr. Bob, posted by lil' jimi on May 25, 2004, at 1:32:09
> my ... expectations of fairness hinge to a large extent on consistency ... ... and a consistency which may not be humanly attainable ... ... so that perhaps simple oversights might to perceived as ... unfairness ...
Yes, it wouldn't be surprising if some posters were particularly sensitive to unfairness.
> > > hoover man's sentence descrepancy remains a mystery .... .... any light?
> >
> > I think it's good to be flexible sometimes...
>
> well, that is a good thing ... ... and i for one would like to see Larry extended every possible flexibility ... ... please?Well, he and I have been in touch. How about if I reduce his block from 6 to 4 weeks?
Bob
Posted by lil' jimi on May 26, 2004, at 10:31:59
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block, posted by Dr. Bob on May 26, 2004, at 9:19:41
hi dr. bob,
thanks for this follow-up.
> > my ... expectations of fairness hinge to a large extent on consistency ... ... and a consistency which may not be humanly attainable ... ... so that perhaps simple oversights might to perceived as ... unfairness ...
>
> Yes, it wouldn't be surprising if some posters were particularly sensitive to unfairness.exactly ... ... we all suffer to different degrees to hypersensitivity to perceived slights ... especially when they are seen as coming from authorities who we need to depend on for our protection ... ...
allow me to commend on your responsive insightfulness ... ... it is reassuring ...
> > > > hoover man's sentence descrepancy remains a mystery .... .... any light?
> > >
> > > I think it's good to be flexible sometimes...
> >
> > well, that is a good thing ... ... and i for one would like to see Larry extended every possible flexibility ... ... please?
>
> Well, he and I have been in touch. How about if I reduce his block from 6 to 4 weeks?
>
> Bobwell, as i am quoted as supporting every benefit for Larry, then of course i, for one of the many, would be personally grateful for any and all Hoover amnesty ... ...
how about we let him off with 3 weeks?
how about we let him off with time served?
... ... and maybe a greater understanding of how you and Lar can get through these situations without having to come down on Lar so hard?BUT i (maybe "we", babblers?) will take what we can get ... ...
i would hope that Lar could speak here for himself ... ... i am not qualified to speak for him ... but since y'all are in touch i will trust that you can hear him even if we can't ... ... yet
thanks,
~ jim
Posted by Susan J on May 26, 2004, at 11:00:10
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block » Dr. Bob, posted by lil' jimi on May 26, 2004, at 10:31:59
Heh heh heh. Cool nick name for Lar. :-) For what it's worth, I'd like to see him back sooner rather than later...his insight is invaluable.
Posted by Dinah on May 26, 2004, at 11:21:16
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block, posted by Dr. Bob on May 26, 2004, at 9:19:41
I'm glad the two of you are in touch. And I'd be delighted to see Lar sooner rather than later.
But especially thanks for making the block reduction public (assuming you decide to do it). The more transparent things are, the safer I feel here.
Posted by FAYEROE on May 26, 2004, at 11:37:53
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on May 26, 2004, at 11:21:16
I too would like to see Larry Hoover's block reduced significantly. Thanks.....
Posted by Wildflower on May 26, 2004, at 12:23:07
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block » Dinah, posted by FAYEROE on May 26, 2004, at 11:37:53
I do believe that Larry's block was uncalled for. He is a trusted and valuable member of this site and his posts have helped so many...including me.
Posted by EmmyS on May 26, 2004, at 12:54:48
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block, posted by Dr. Bob on May 26, 2004, at 9:19:41
I'm against all blocks unless they are for outrageous behavior such as racist comments, encouraging suicide, etc.
Blocking access to a generally supportive environment goes against the idea of this place.
If you feel blocks are required, please consider limiting the duration to something more reasonable and base it on the CURRENT offense only, not on cummulated past behaviors.
Amnesty for Larry.
Emmy
Posted by Susan J on May 26, 2004, at 13:13:50
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block » Dr. Bob, posted by EmmyS on May 26, 2004, at 12:54:48
well said!
> I'm against all blocks unless they are for outrageous behavior such as racist comments, encouraging suicide, etc.
>
> Blocking access to a generally supportive environment goes against the idea of this place.
>
> If you feel blocks are required, please consider limiting the duration to something more reasonable and base it on the CURRENT offense only, not on cummulated past behaviors.
>
> Amnesty for Larry.
>
> Emmy
Posted by spoc on May 26, 2004, at 16:06:23
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block » EmmyS, posted by Susan J on May 26, 2004, at 13:13:50
Seconded, thirded, fourthed and on into infinity... You all put it so well and I agree heartily. I think as the original sentences for Larry have already been serious in relation to any deeds on his part (and in consideration of other overlooked factors) -- and have been at the high end of the spectrum of possible remedies -- that even "time served" really does make sense. Not just because of everything he can bring to this board, but because it really does make sense and seem fair.
The door to other considerations about the matter of blocking and mitigating factors may also then be opened, but that is as it should be. Not only for the sake of what's right, but because this isn't like other boards, and I think effects to mental health really are possible in relation to this stuff. So it's as important as it gets to get it right and take the time to do that.
Posted by lil' jimi on May 26, 2004, at 16:48:54
In reply to re: unfairness and hoover man's block, posted by Dr. Bob on May 26, 2004, at 9:19:41
hey,
have alternatives to blocks been discussed or considered? .... .... PBCs and 'please rephrase' afford flexibility for cautionary advisories ...
could there be a pre-block sanction like a detention or a quarantine? ... ... once a poster had runn up to being blocked (nowadays) instead they might to confined to a detention board for some amount of time ... there they might be able to post their case and all babblers would know that it was a less safe board because of the greater potential of offense from possible offenders
... ... there might be more extensive considerations in some circumstances where they could post there, but not allowed to be posted to ... ?
this is a very primordial idea so far, but i see a potential for greater administrative flexibilty with some more options when push starts to come to shove .... .... maybe?... but i am not suggesting this for Larry at all ... ... every factor in Lar's case suggests to me he should go/have gone free ... long ago ...
anyway.
~ jim
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