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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 67. Go back in thread:
Posted by zeugma on March 28, 2006, at 17:21:56
In reply to Re: Goodbye from me.........., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 16:47:13
I guess I'll just never understand why it's not perfectly feasible to conduct a civil and friendly political discussion under the same circumstances.>>
because I strongly believe, and have much evidence to back up, the conviction that the politicians we have been discussing here have been lying and flouting the laws of this nation.
And I wake up every morning to news of chaos in Iraq. The U.N. will not clean up our mess, because the Bush Administration disregarded the agreements that they themselves adopted (ironic that they wound up defying the U.N. more, in this instance, than Saddam himself). And there is a civil war, and U.S. troops are in the middle of it, regardless of Mr. Rumsfeld's latest stroke of semantic twisting.
Policy. Essentially, we washed our hands of the U.N. when we went in ourselves (according to the memo recently leaked by a Blair gov't official and described as accurate by unnamed, but we are assured high-ranking officials, Mr. Bush merely wanted to use the U.N. as a convenient cover for his own intentions).
O.K., bring the U.N, to clean up our mess. I would think that the U.N., after having been treated with such contempt a few years ago, is hardly willing to wade into a thankless conflict for such an feckless set of occupiers. But you know, it is a good thing to abide by international law when it is convenient. The better to undermine it later.
-z
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 17:29:08
In reply to Re: Goodbye from me.......... » Dinah, posted by zeugma on March 28, 2006, at 17:21:56
And why wouldn't that be possible to discuss civilly and with mutual respect?
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 18:01:34
In reply to Re: Goodbye from me.......... » zeugma, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 17:29:08
I'm in major danger of being hit with my own spittle again.
I think it comes down to choice. And I need to accept that people don't make the same choices I do, and that all I can control is my reaction.
While I think that mutual respect and civility is the one value that can bring peace to the world, if universally adopted, I have to accept that not everyone places the same value on it. That's life. I can't control that, all I can control is my reaction to it. I can choose to try to promote my values, or I can choose to walk away. And sometimes it's a wise choice to walk away.
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 18:04:30
In reply to Never mind., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 18:01:34
That bit of self talk really should have remained in my mind.
Posted by zeugma on March 28, 2006, at 18:47:52
In reply to Sorry., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 18:04:30
similar self-talk in my own mind.
-z
Posted by zeugma on March 28, 2006, at 18:55:45
In reply to I am sorry, posted by zeugma on March 28, 2006, at 18:47:52
whether about politics or not, my dry mouth perhaps.
-z
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:03:50
In reply to Sorry., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 18:04:30
> That bit of self talk really should have remained in my mind.
NO NO NO!!!! That is the whole idea of politics, its ALL about the freedom to express oneself, thats totally why it doesnt work on this site, because Bob won't allow posters to express themselves, or makes them feel uncomfortable if they do so. Its my opinion that Bobs philosphy is actually detrimental to the healing of the individual. I come here and I'm so scared of upsetting someone else that it actually dents MY self confidence and self image! I mean, wheres the logic in that?
Let me give you an example (its pertinent to the US posters but those of us in the UK are much more relaxed about the issue) abortion. Now the pro life brigade will of course tell YOU that abortion is murder. Now the way I see Bobs civility rules, that would be tantamount to accusing someone of murder and would fall foul of his civility rules. See what I'm getting at here?
In my case I'm big AGAINST the war in iraq.....I firmly believe and always have done (and think the evidence has more than emerged to back up my case) that both the US and UK leaders conspired to mislead the public about WMD (funny how you never hear of those now isnt it ???). I believe they needlessly killed tens of thousands of iraqis PURELY because they wanted a battlefied on which to fight al-queda. Of course that may well fall foul of Bobs civility rules too as it might upset or offend someone who thinks G W Bush or Tony B liar (its a UK joke) are some kind of heros.
Rather than have to worry when I post about subjects I feel VERY passionate about, I'd rather not bother at all.
I'm gobsmacked at the response to my original post though with not ONE single person supporting Bobs stance on the issue...........but Bob doesnt believe in democracy when it goes against his way of thinking. IMO anyway.
See you one alter guys n gals :-)
Best wishes and hope you are all feeling well
TJ
Posted by wildcard11 on March 28, 2006, at 19:12:55
In reply to Re: Sorry., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:03:50
PBC or block in advance..lol I TOTALLY agree w/ you!!!
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:48:10
In reply to Re: Sorry., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:03:50
I don't find it necessary to say so all the time, but I do.
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:52:20
In reply to I support his stance., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:48:10
> I don't find it necessary to say so all the time, but I do.
Did you not say this earlier in this thread?
"I think I'm going to walk away from this board too. Spittin in the wind. I just keep spittin in the wind."
Not quite sure how you reconcile these two seemingly contradictory statements?
TJ
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:57:06
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:52:20
Because I do support his stance. And as a poster I feel like I'm just spitting in the wind to try to find points of mutual agreement, different ways of looking at possible motivations, etc.
As the administrator of this site, Dr. Bob has a bit more influence.
Posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 19:59:52
In reply to I support his stance., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:48:10
IRL I can have civil discussions involving political disagreements a little more easily than here. This is because here there are not so many cues, and nuance is not so easily communicated. And IRL the disagreements I have with people where I live are small compared to here. That makes the disagreements here raw and overdetermined. And where I live almost everyone thinks the same about most of these things (that's why people live where they do).
But people in other parts think differently. For example I had a discussion with an Australian about our attitude to asylum seekers. He was saying 'Sink their boats in the water.' So I said 'Why not shoot them on the beaches? That would send a message.' All that proves (I suppose) is that political discussions IRL can be a bit raw too.
Declan
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:06:39
In reply to Re: I support his stance. » teejay, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:57:06
I too admire his stance reagarding protecting vulnerable people on the other boards, but people venturing into the realm of politics must surely be aware of what they are entering IMO.
Yes DR Bob does have more influence than you or I, but with influence comes responsibility.
I wonder (just out of interest) what Bush Blair of even Clinton would make of this board?
TJ
Posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:17:48
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:06:39
I find it reassuring that Howard is always left out. I read the other day that if the USA decided to invade mars, the Australians would send along some backup support.
Declan
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:24:01
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 19:59:52
Sounds like an ideal moment to stay civil to me. :)
I once read a Star Trek novel where Sarek was talking to Dr. McCoy, and Dr. McCoy said something that was... injudicious. Sarek replied with a polite "Excuse me, I didn't quite hear that." and Dr. McCoy realized that what he really meant was that he was going to be polite enough to pretend he didn't hear that so that Dr. McCoy would have another chance to choose his words.
In my experience, people who advocate summary execution are usually just expressing severe frustration at what seems to them to be an unsolveable problem. There aren't that many people who would actually wield that gun.
One thing I like about Babble is discovering that people outside my native habitat are nice and fun and interesting and have valuable things to contribute that I might not find in my own nesting grounds. But perhaps because of that, Dr. Bob has an even bigger challenge in maintaining a civil atmosphere, wouldn't you think?
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:28:17
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:06:39
This isn't an island. It's part of Babble. The feelings that are hurt on Politics will likely influence interactions on other boards.
In order to keep the site as a whole a place for support and education, he needs to keep the *entire* site a place for support and education. Unless the Politics posters were *only* Politics posters, how can the overall goals of the site not apply here as well?
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:33:01
In reply to Re: I support his stance. » Declan, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:24:01
<i>But perhaps because of that, Dr. Bob has an even bigger challenge in maintaining a civil atmosphere, wouldn't you think?</i>
Hmmmm, maybe, but I still feel Dr Bob skews his feelings in favour of the recipient of a post rather than the poster.........after all are the recipients feelings REALLY more important than mine? (rhetorical question)
The big issue for me in star trek is who is more sexually appealling, Lt Yah of Seven of nine???
Time for my bed dinah (3.30 am here), but its been nice 'chatting'.
TJ
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:33:50
In reply to Re: I support his stance. » teejay, posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:17:48
> I find it reassuring that Howard is always left out. I read the other day that if the USA decided to invade mars, the Australians would send along some backup support.
Howard???? Never heard of him ;-)
Posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:36:17
In reply to Re: I support his stance. » teejay, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:28:17
Discussing the foreign policy of a democracy is a challenge, because that reflects, in some way or other, on the citizens of that country. (That's my problem here)
One thing I like here is the opportunity to get to understand politics from the inside, rather than from outside; this comes through the tone of individual posts.
Declan
Posted by 10derHeart on March 28, 2006, at 20:38:48
In reply to I support his stance., posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 19:48:10
As do I.
Posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:38:58
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:33:01
TJ, I was wondering what you were doing up at this hour.
Declan
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:40:15
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:36:17
Yeah, me too.
I'd like to have a chance to eavesdrop on other countries' citizens talking about their own issues. I know very little about the Australian challenges regarding asylum seekers, for example. Is it similar to our immigration issues?
And I learned a lot about the UK's healthcare issues as they relate to mental health on the other boards.
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2006, at 20:43:05
In reply to Re: I support his stance., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:33:01
I'm afraid I'm strictly Original Star Trekker. :)
I've enjoyed it as well.
Posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 20:45:39
In reply to Staying up late » teejay, posted by Declan on March 28, 2006, at 20:38:58
> TJ, I was wondering what you were doing up at this hour.
> DeclanTalking to you! LOL
Not anymore though as my bed is calling me.
Another time declan, and I enjoy chatting to some people on psycho babble and count you as one of them.
Live long and prosper as some fellah on star trek might say ;-)
TJ
Posted by verne on March 28, 2006, at 20:52:43
In reply to Re: Sorry., posted by teejay on March 28, 2006, at 19:03:50
I, too, am against war. But when the war is between terrorists and a free Iraq, I'll choose to help the Iraqis.
Thank God for the USA and President Bush, and for the courage, to free Iraq. We liberated France in WWII and now we liberate Iraq.
God Bless America!
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