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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on October 10, 2003, at 7:10:36
In reply to I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 2:43:19
Have you read "In Session" by Deborah Lott? Best book on transference from this side of the couch.
I know you hate that word, but....
There are tons of reasons people feel this way. Perhaps he's just attractive. Then you're in an intimate situation, alone every week sharing very intimate thoughts and feelings. Plus you're grateful for the help and concern. That's a situation that most often occurs in either a relationship of lovers, or maybe mother/child. And so often our reaction is evocative of that, just because that's what we as humans tend to do. I don't think therapy is in our genetic programming. :)
Also, there's a certain safety in feeling things for people who can't reciprocate.
I wouldn't encourage the feelings in yourself. That's just going to cause pain. Most feelings are easiest to tolerate if you just acknowledge them, accept that they exist, and then accept the reality of the situation. The reality is that your therapist will not reciprocate, or if he does, be's a pretty unethical therapist and not someone you want to be involved with.
Have you had any dialectical behavior therapy? It discusses a lot of those things.
Don'g rely on anger to disburse the feelings. That would probably be an old pattern, and not the best one to live by because you would be cutting off someone who is trying to help you.
Since your therapist knows of your feelings, listen to what he says. A feeling this strong that crops up after weeks often has it's beginning in some very old feelings. Let him help you see what your feelings might mean, and how you might be able to use them to better understand yourself and the patterns in your life that cause difficulty.
If you can't get past the feelings of attraction to be able to concentrate on therapy, and if they continue to cause you pain, after an honest attempt on your and your therapist's part, perhaps the two of you might decide therapy might be more productive with someone else. It all depends on how skilled your therapist is at working with these feelings, and how willing you are to work through them.
Good luck.
Posted by Fallen Angel on October 10, 2003, at 9:47:00
In reply to I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 2:43:19
Hey there tinydancer,I had a similar probleme.
Only it wasn't my therapist but my teacher who was married and has a son and he was more than 20years older than me! I was so in love with him It made me cry cause I knew that he will never answer my love. The only thing I could do was to forget him. And I did after 4years or so! It was hard and I still think about him,but I feel much better now,I feel free. I wish you my very best!
Posted by judy1 on October 10, 2003, at 10:09:45
In reply to I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 2:43:19
I would never try to minimize your feelings because I've had them and at the time they are painfully very real. May I ask if you ever met him in a non-therapeutic setting- like school, church, etc.- would you find him attractive? If not, then transference is very much at play here. I'm very glad you have been honest with him because it allows him to help you cope with your feelings. Abandonment is a hot issue for me too, and I'm sure his reassurances help. You sound like you are being honest with yourself- you recognize he is married and has a child- and therefore nothing will likely happen. Don't wish for a 'fling'-I have been there and it almost destroyed me. I would hope your mental health is the most important issue here, and once you feel better you'll be able to form healthy relationships with men in the 'real world' who will be able to return your feelings. I wish you all the best, and know many of us have been where you are and have gotten through it. take care, judy
Posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 12:53:30
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » tinydancer, posted by judy1 on October 10, 2003, at 10:09:45
Hello Judy, you asked about if I had felt this way about him if I just saw him on the street. In fact I had brought that up in therapy because that was exactly how I felt. I knew if I had seen him just walking around I would have instantly been interested in him, and have been since the second I saw him and we met. But the feelings have intensified hugely since we began therapy and started dealing with the more difficult issues. I feel that it is a good thing that I am able to be very honest with him about my feelings. I am not afraid to tell him because I have been so encouraged by our progress that I know being honest and open is so incredibly beneficial to my progress.
The thing is we are near the same age, and we do have an undeniable chemistry between us. Believe me! It is totally obvious and he has told me that he cares about me and I think he may in fact have similar feelings about me but I know that he would never act on them. I know that for sure but I still feel I have to try for anything I can get. I have been thinking about these feelings a lot but the minute I try to I just get overwhelmed by the pain of being so in love with him and the way he makes me feel. I think that more than anything is the part I am addicted to. The minute I am around him, I am relaxed, happy and feel no pain! I am trying to work through this though and I believe we will make it through this phase but right now its very difficult. I guess I will just keep talking to him about these feelings. I just wonder so much what he thinks about me and if, had me met me outside without being married if he would have been attracted to me? Lord, I need to tape my mouth shut because I am afraid I will ask him that!!! Anyway thank you for writing back everyone. It is so great of you all. This is a really nice forum I look forward to participating.
Posted by karen_kay on October 10, 2003, at 15:29:45
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 12:53:30
tinydancer, I am so glad you posted because I too am in the same situation. My therapist is the same age as I am and is very attractive. I have a problem of getting crushes on men of authority figures in my life. So, I knew from the first day I met him I would develope a crush on him. But, I have been seeing him for over 6 months now and the feelings are gradually decreasing. I am still very attracted to him, don't get me wrong. All I can tell you is that maybe over time, as therapy gets a little more difficult and he begins to become more challenging your feelings for him will begin to deminish. I am curious though, how much detail have you given him as to your attraction towards him? Personally, I cracak jokes to him alot aobut humping him and such. Yet, I am quite vulgar. Try talking a little bit aobut it to him and see what he has to say. Good luck hun.
Posted by tinydancer on October 11, 2003, at 3:20:04
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by karen_kay on October 10, 2003, at 15:29:45
Karen, I have been very open about it, I told him pretty clearly that I'm in love with him and that I can't stop thinking about him, and that it is so painful realizing there will never be an us because I feel like he could be a wonderful partner. I told him that I was basically jealous of his wife and that I didn't like her. (HAHA!) I asked why he married her and what he liked about her and if she was really pretty. It is embarassing but at the same time I need to tell him. I know that nothing good will come out of concealing my feelings.
Your comments about what you said about joking with your T are hilarious!!! heehee...I also like to joke around a little too....It is hard to always be serious when dealing with these feelings.
Posted by karen_kay on October 11, 2003, at 11:43:12
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 11, 2003, at 3:20:04
It really is hard to be serious because your know that these feelings are not real. You do not know this person. They are feelings that you have for other people that you have experienced in the past. My therapist asked me once if I wonder what his wife looks like. I just ignored him. Of course I wonder what she looks like. And I am jealous of his daughter too. Because I wish I was his daughter (transference issues towards my father). The theraputic relationship is an odd one. Oh, another thing that really got me going. The whole time I have been in therapy I have yet to see another client my age (roughly 25). Usually they are in their 40's. Well, at my last session, I got bumped from my normal time slot which kinda put me in a situation, and I saw who it was for. He got the next client directly after I left and she was my age, blonde hair, sorority girl type, you know the deal. I was fuming. I wanted to be his prettiest client. I know it sounds silly. And stupid saying it, but it hurts my feelings especially since my regualr time was bumped for his prettier client. Aghh!
Posted by Deafmom on October 24, 2003, at 14:56:04
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Fallen Angel on October 10, 2003, at 9:47:00
OK. What if I am in love with my therapist and have a hard time thinking of much else? I've had so many therapists in the past and I believe this one is the last one I'll ever have (unless I'm not able to stop therapy before he retires in 15 or so years). We do a lot of work with DBT skills and I am a multiple so there is a whole lot of personal information exchanged. But in return, he has his text pager available to me at any time (he'll return when he's not busy) and we often IM eachother online (I'm deaf so phone calls are not practical). He's an awesome therapist and it's a little embarrassing to say, but I really think I'm infatuated with him. He's very open and often shares bits of information (like a bad, but hilarious escapade on a ladder one afternoon). I think it's mainly to help me trust him. For him to show me that he's open and honest (although the only things ever said about his family were just normal things like, "I have to end this session at exactly 4 PM. I wanted to tell you so you weren't surprised or upset with the time comes. My car broke down and my wife will be here at exactly 4"--our sessions almost always run over).So what can I do? What should I do? I'm obviously never going to tell him I'm in love with him, but the feelings are still there and are strong. Any suggestions?
Posted by karen_kay on October 27, 2003, at 14:39:12
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Deafmom on October 24, 2003, at 14:56:04
Hmmm.. I too am in the same situation, only for me it is a repeating pattern. I am upfront and honest with my therapist. He doesn't seem too concerned, but I'm not as honest as I should be. It would only make him blush! Umm, with me it is a matter of finding a "daddy" or transference as they call it. If you are not familiar with the term, there are many other threads here about it. If that is not the case, it doesn't help that he gives you personal information aobut himself (although I know you like it, as I do). /the whole thought is that a therapist is supposed to be a blank slate and that is why a client falling in love with him/her seemed odd. Until transference came to be known. You have 2 options at this point. If you feel that the infatuation is helpful and is not hurting the theraputic relationship, then what is the harm? However, if you are fearful of being honest, because "What will he think of me?" then maybe you should fess up. It isn't nearly as embarrassing as you think it might be. Good luck in which ever decision you make and keep me posted. Karen
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on October 29, 2003, at 13:03:23
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by karen_kay on October 27, 2003, at 14:39:12
I have been in therapy for three months now and am just starting to encounter feelings of "love" for my therapist. I am attracted to him sexually and paternally and I'm sure I idealize the hell out of him.
During my last session, I gave him Deborah Lott's book to read which he said he had never seen and he seemed as if he was very interested in reading it. I am hoping that this may open up a new dialogue between us since I have been much too shy to bring up any feelings I have towards him in our sessions. I even underlined some particularly relevant passages which I felt described my feelings toward him.
I am wondering if anyone else has had a conversation with their therapist about Lott's book? If so, how did it go? I am quite curious as to how he will react since I have no idea if he even suspects I love him so much.
Posted by raindancer on October 30, 2003, at 15:28:01
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by karen_kay on October 27, 2003, at 14:39:12
Hello. Just wanted to say that I feel just the same. My therapist is a few years younger than me and I have had loving feelings towards him for nearly two years. I am very embarrassed by this as I am quite old with grandchildren!! The trouble is that the feelings of abandonment are just the same. When I was first ill in my twenties there was no such thing (or rarely) as counselling - they just gave you handfuls of pills and hoped for the best. I was OK in the middle years but worse now. What I really want to say is to sort it out now while you are younger to give you a much better future and all the very best to all of you. I know how painful it can be.
Posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:38:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by raindancer on October 30, 2003, at 15:28:01
Hi,
You are experiencing transference which is a natural phenonamia in psychotherapy. You are experiencing the blissfull childhood bond you should have been allowed to feel with your mother, or father or sibling, This is feeling that you have always had, but because you could not connect and get that blissful love back from your mother, or father or sibling or who-ever, you are now seeking to repair that in therapy.
A child has such a full and beautiful love, when it is recieved and held, he is able to trust in the world. When he is rejected or ignored he develops fear of trust in his people.
Let your younger self feel thatlove to the fullest extent, because you deserve to have that returned and create healing in your life. Don't worry your therapist will not act out with you, it is not really about romantic love, although even kids want to marry their mommy at some point! don't worry this is a much younger and more important love. It is the love that you need to internalize in order to trust as you live the rest of your life.All human being needs to go through that developmental phase. Trust me.
Posted by naiad on November 19, 2003, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » raindancer, posted by april8 on October 30, 2003, at 23:38:06
April,
Thank you for your wonderful explanantion of transference. I have read Deborah Lott's book (In Session) which was helpful but you really clarified how one could benefit from these strong and baffling feelings.
I fell in love with my therapist relatively soon after beginning to work with him but I was afraid to talk to him about it for quite awhile. Finally,with much fear and trembling, I told him and lo and behold he was understanding and none of my fears (that he would tell me to "go away" or that he would want to begin an affair with me) occurred. The funnny thing is that once I realized that an affair was really not going to happen, I was quite sad. I felt grief over loss of my fantasy. Even though the feelings have quieted to a degree, they are still "in the therapy room."
My question is: how will transference benefit me? I certainly relate to your idea that it is the love I didn't get as a child. Is there anything else that might be helpful? Thanks again.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:57:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by naiad on November 19, 2003, at 23:11:36
>
> My question is: how will transference benefit me? I certainly relate to your idea that it is the love I didn't get as a child. Is there anything else that might be helpful? Thanks again.
>
Now I'm not at all sure of the answer to this question. I think experiencing transferences is completely natural. I think discussing them with your therapist is helpful, given that they exist. But I've long had my doubts that experiencing the sort of painful erotic transferences many of you describe is actually helpful.I do understand that experiencing the maternal transference I feel is helpful as it helps my therapist's stated goal of providing a corrective emotional experience and (sort of) reparenting. I understand how it's helpful to me because it makes me feel more confident to go out in the world, knowing that my therapist is there to help me if the world is too overwhelming. Sort of that stage of child development where the child explores but looks back to make sure mommy's there and checks out her expression to make sure the world's ok.
But some of these erotic transferences sound just painful. Given that sharing anything with our therapists is helpful, is there any other way an erotic transference contributes to therapy?
Transference experts anyone?
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 9:57:06
I think strong erotic transferences, while very painful, are often part of a good therapy experience. You do learn to trust more by speaking of it, you can have the experience of becoming more in touch with your own sexuality- and the power of it- you do also get your heart kind of broken, but you can eventually leave being able to love someone else more deeply. At least, I hope so!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 22:12:53
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
I guess I'm not very sexual, so it just seems so very much pain for not a lot of gain. But I'm probably the last to be able to judge.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 20, 2003, at 22:12:53
I have a hard time believing that, Dinah - I really think we all are. But what seems to be most important to you right now is primarily pre-sexual. It's such a strong indication of what a bad job your own mother did in providing you with security and that vital "sparkle in the eye" to let you know you really mattered, and that you were safe with her. One of these days, as we go along here, I wouldn't be surprised to be reading that Dinah suddenly found herself with a sexual transference- she'll be completely bowled over, and wonder where on earth it came from after all those years! Promise not to keep it a secret if it happens?
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 23:41:20
Chuckle. Well I'll be surprised!!! And so will my therapist I'll bet! Could I at least have it with someone else? (Euw, Euwwwww, Euewwwwwww!)
Posted by joslynn on November 21, 2003, at 9:58:28
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
I think there is some good to it...it has made me look at a wider variety of men I may not have noticed before, because my pdcoc is not the physical type I would have noticed before. My thinking now is, hey, maybe that average-looking man in his 40s could be just as nice as my pdoc, I should give him a chance. I never would have given my pdoc a chance romantically, if he was just a random single guy. And of course it will never be a romantic relationship, but the feelings were romantic, and sometimes still are. So, under that unassuming package was this nice, smart person who cares about me, maybe other unassuming packages have the same good stuff inside.
(Not that I was only attracted to GQ models, but I had this thick-haired, traditionally handsome type that always caught my eye, or a sensistive-ponytail-man type. Having a little crush on my pdoc has expanded my "type" beyond that.)
Posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
Pfinstegg,
That was very profound. Thanks. I know I should share my experiences, but I'm downright embarrassed. I mean, MAYBE I could manage saying that I feel like I'm in love with him, but to tell him I've had sexual fantasies about him??? Gosh, I just can't imagine doing that to anyone, let alone the man I look up to the most. But I sure wish I could. I should. I'll have to give it some thought.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:09:10
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Deafmom on November 21, 2003, at 11:18:02
I have been telling him- it's an initially terrifying experience- you leave thinking that you can't believe what you just said! But he keeps pointing out that a vital part of therapy is allowing him to know what all my wishes and desires are. Somehow, it becomes something very profound and meaningful to do. It has nothing to do with actually having anything happen. In fact, the main point seems for me to know myself better, and trust him more with all parts of me. I have never regretted saying even the most intimate, private things to him- I think it's the things one doesn't know about, or can't say, which seem to cause those painful feelings of loneliness and shame. You could try it slowly, and see whether you have the same good experience that I've had. I think this is the area where the therapists really show their skill!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 2:09:36
All things are possible, Dinah! You get to choose whether, when and who!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist -Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 14:11:44
At the risk of giving too much information, I have a sexual aversion problem so severe that my therapist finds it hard to believe that I wasn't sexually abused as a kid. It fits in with so much of my pathology. He never digs or anything, or tries to get me to come up with something, but he does ask me from time to time if I'm telling him everything. I am.
But I find the idea of a sexualized transference highly unlikely. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 19:42:02
I didn't mean to be flippant at all, Dinah, but I'm afraid I was. Because of your posts over time, I kind of knew that you did have an unexplained aversion- you're not alone in this at all, and I don't think it is necessarily caused by outright abuse (although it could be)- I think just an absence of good parenting, especially by a father, can do it. I guess I was just thinking and hoping that when you got more of the very early stuff worked out, as you are doing, that this would be the next big thing to deal with. I still do think that it will likely come up, but only when you are ready. Just allowing it to come up as an aversion is a very courageous step. Someone recently here quoted her therapist as saying something like, " if the part of you which can't talk, could, what would she say?" I think this is a wonderful question- it pushes us a bit into our unconscious memories, without being too intrusive- we won't be able to answer until we are ready, but I think questions like this help us get ready.. My analyst uses questions like that a lot; maybe the first 20 times I draw a blank, but then suddenly, an answer appears- not a memory of an event, so much as forgotten feelings- buried wishes and fears. It is initially so frightening that I have run out of his office and sat in the dark in his bathroom to try to calm down! But we keep at it, and it is getting better- less fear each week, and a sort of claiming of my own feelings- including all the ones towards him (not just sexual desire, but also childlike love and longing, rage and hate. Today I found mself saying, "I can actually tell you any feelings and desires I have!" He said, "yes, you can- that is one of the things I am here for". This has only REALLY dawned on me after eight months of therapy- I was trying to be open and candid before, just not TOO much so. Now, well...
Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2003, at 21:29:06
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2003, at 20:33:48
Oh no, you weren't being too flippant at all. It was just on my mind because it was the topic of conversation at therapy today and I'm rather doubtful that I'll ever get past it enought to have an erotic reaction to anyone who isn't on screen or in books. :)
I think with the holidays coming up, I was trying to keep the conversation at something safe. Oddly enough, sex isn't a topic which is likely to distress me.
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