![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
Has anyone taken magnesium supplements for fatigue/irritability associated with depression? I’m asking because of a couple things that I read recently. A recent journal article speculated that a subgroup of those with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) represent a variant of dysthymia (chronic low grade depression). Dysthymics, like those with CFS, often experience fatigue, poor concentration, low drive and, of course, low mood. Most CFS patients, according to another study, improve when given magnesium. Their energy levels rise, they have better emotional states and less pain.
I took magnesium supplements recently and they seemed to take away the unusually severe muscle soreness I would have following exercise. I took the magnesium in the form and dosage that a book recommended for those with CFS, that is, 300 mg of magnesium aspartate 3 times a day. Magnesium citrate is also an acceptable form.
Below is an abstract of one of the studies alluded to above.Title Dysthymia: clinical picture, overlap with chronic fatigue syndrome, neuropharmacological considerations, and new therapeutic vistas.
Authors Brunello N; Akiskal H; Boyer P; Gessa GL; Howland RH; Langer SZ; Mendlewicz J; Paes de Souza M; Placidi GF; Racagni G; Wessely S
Address Center of Neuropharmacology, Institute of Pharmacological Sciences, University of Milan, Italy. brunello@isfunix.farma.unimi.it
Source J Affect Disord, 52(1-3):275-90 1999 Jan-MarAbstract
Dysthymia, as defined in the American Psychiatric Association and International Classification of Mental Disorders, refers to a prevalent form of subthreshold depressive pathology with gloominess, anhedonia, low drive and energy, low self-esteem and pessimistic outlook. Although comorbidity with panic, social phobic, and alcohol use disorders has been described, the most significant association is with major depressive episodes. Family history is loaded with affective, including bipolar, disorders. The latter finding explains why dysthymia, especially when onset is in childhood, can lead to hypomanic switches, both spontaneously and upon pharmacologic challenge in as many as 30%. Indeed, antidepressants from different classes -tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase A (RIMAs), selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and, more recently, amisulpride, and spanning noradrenergic, serotonergic as well as dopaminergic mechanisms of action - have been shown to be effective against dysthymia in an average of 65% of cases. This is a promising development because social and characterologic disturbances so pervasive in dysthymia often, though not always, recede with continued pharmacotherapy beyond acute treatment. Despite symptomatic overlap of dysthymia with chronic fatigue syndrome - especially with respect to the cluster of symptoms consisting of low drive, lethargy, lassitude and poor concentration - neither the psychopathologic status, nor the pharmacologic response profile of the latter syndrome is presently understood. Chronic fatigue today is where dysthymia was two decades ago. We submit that the basic science - clinical paradigm that has proven so successful in dysthymia could, before too long, crack down the conundrum of chronic fatigue as well. At a more practical level, we raise the possibility that a subgroup within the chronic fatigue group represents a variant of dysthymia.
Posted by dj on October 7, 1999, at 23:25:54
In reply to Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
Andrew,
My naturopath from a year ago suggested a calcium/magnesium mix but wasn't overly specific on the type or amount. I've used it on occasion but in smaller doses so hard to say if it was effective. He also suggested Siberian Ginsing to bring up my energy level. Again, may or may not helped -- hard to say...
A friend noted to me recently that:" My naturopath also has me on 200mg of Selenium a day (research has shown that it acts as both an antidepressant and antanxiety drug" Do you know of any research on that or on the cal/mag. combo?
DJ
Posted by saint james on October 8, 1999, at 0:09:23
In reply to Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
> Has anyone taken magnesium supplements for fatigue/irritability associated with depression?
James here....
I've always been a big fan of mineral supplementation (esp. the "trace" elements) because they are so essencial to life and neuro function. Most people do not get enough mineral intake on a normal diet, and fast food is very lacking in them.
j
Posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 0:58:04
In reply to Re: Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by saint james on October 8, 1999, at 0:09:23
The calcium/magnesium combo is supposed to be good for PMS symptoms. Michelle Harrison, I think that is her name, is an MD who wrote "Self Help For Premenstrul Syndrome" and she mentions it.
Posted by JohnL on October 8, 1999, at 3:47:22
In reply to Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
I agree with Saint James. Minerals of all kinds can probably be of particular value for this or that. Look at the mineral salt Lithium for example. I saw a hospital in Boston was doing a study with chromium supplementation for depression. I don't notice much benefit from vitamins, minerals, or herbs when taking them, but I do notice a drag when I'm NOT taking them. Subtle. In general though, large-dose supplementation of anything causes me hesitation, because we aren't sure where the difference is between therapeutic and toxic. I have often experimented with alternative approaches, but with caution and generally disappointment. No miracles out there yet for me. Surely mineral supplementation is a good thing. I personally wouldn't expect any drastic response though.
Posted by Bruce on October 8, 1999, at 8:06:04
In reply to Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
I take magnesium as a 'sleeping aid'. That is, I can take a very tiny dose (15-20 mg) just before bedtime, and I sleep like a rock. What startles me is my sensitivity to the stuff. The stuff I buy comes in pills of 250mg, and I bite off a tiny chunk - that's all it takes. The sensitivity to such small doses tells me that something is askew with my body's processing of magnesium, quite possibly tied in with my depression...
Bruce
Posted by Sean on October 8, 1999, at 12:14:17
In reply to Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by andrewb on October 7, 1999, at 22:45:18
> Has anyone taken magnesium supplements for fatigue/irritability associated with depression? I’m asking because of a couple things that I read recently. A recent journal article speculated that a subgroup of those with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) represent a variant of dysthymia (chronic low grade depression). Dysthymics, like those with CFS, often experience fatigue, poor concentration, low drive and, of course, low mood. Most CFS patients, according to another study, improve when given magnesium. Their energy levels rise, they have better emotional states and less pain.
> I took magnesium supplements recently and they seemed to take away the unusually severe muscle soreness I would have following exercise. I took the magnesium in the form and dosage that a book recommended for those with CFS, that is, 300 mg of magnesium aspartate 3 times a day. Magnesium citrate is also an acceptable form.
> Below is an abstract of one of the studies alluded to above.
>
> Title Dysthymia: clinical picture, overlap with chronic fatigue syndrome, neuropharmacological considerations, and new therapeutic vistas.
> Authors Brunello N; Akiskal H; Boyer P; Gessa GL; Howland RH; Langer SZ; Mendlewicz J; Paes de Souza M; Placidi GF; Racagni G; Wessely S
> Address Center of Neuropharmacology, Institute of Pharmacological Sciences, University of Milan, Italy. brunello@isfunix.farma.unimi.it
> Source J Affect Disord, 52(1-3):275-90 1999 Jan-Mar
>
> Abstract
> Dysthymia, as defined in the American Psychiatric Association and International Classification of Mental Disorders, refers to a prevalent form of subthreshold depressive pathology with gloominess, anhedonia, low drive and energy, low self-esteem and pessimistic outlook. Although comorbidity with panic, social phobic, and alcohol use disorders has been described, the most significant association is with major depressive episodes. Family history is loaded with affective, including bipolar, disorders. The latter finding explains why dysthymia, especially when onset is in childhood, can lead to hypomanic switches, both spontaneously and upon pharmacologic challenge in as many as 30%. Indeed, antidepressants from different classes -tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase A (RIMAs), selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and, more recently, amisulpride, and spanning noradrenergic, serotonergic as well as dopaminergic mechanisms of action - have been shown to be effective against dysthymia in an average of 65% of cases. This is a promising development because social and characterologic disturbances so pervasive in dysthymia often, though not always, recede with continued pharmacotherapy beyond acute treatment. Despite symptomatic overlap of dysthymia with chronic fatigue syndrome - especially with respect to the cluster of symptoms consisting of low drive, lethargy, lassitude and poor concentration - neither the psychopathologic status, nor the pharmacologic response profile of the latter syndrome is presently understood. Chronic fatigue today is where dysthymia was two decades ago. We submit that the basic science - clinical paradigm that has proven so successful in dysthymia could, before too long, crack down the conundrum of chronic fatigue as well. At a more practical level, we raise the possibility that a subgroup within the chronic fatigue group represents a variant of dysthymia.This is interesting. I've been taking a calcium,
potassium, magnesium supplement for a while and
I think there is some effect, especially with
somatic things like jumpy muscles. There was a
similar study done with calcium.Sean.
Posted by chy on October 8, 1999, at 23:23:40
In reply to Re: Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by Sean on October 8, 1999, at 12:14:17
Calcium/Magnesium/potasium/sodium are called the Cardiac Bond.
They should be taken together, well except the sodium since we tend to get enough of that in diet.
Citrate and aspartate formulas are best.
Potasium/Magnesium aspartate is recomended for chemo patients.
A hyper-sensitivity to magnesium is considered to indicate a sodium uptake problem. A good home test would be to eat a very ripe banana wait twenty minutes and then take your blood pressure. If it has fallen well below your personal norm (of course this means you have to know your norm) them you have a sodium uptake problem. Sodium uptake problems have been linked to aggravation of Split-brain phenom.
Calcium citrate 80mg is recomended for insomnia if consumed as one lays down to sleep. I suck on a calcium pill at night. Helps my insomnia a bit and my reflux alot.
chy
--sounding like a text book.
Posted by Noa on October 9, 1999, at 2:44:44
In reply to Re: Depression/Fatigue and Magnesium, posted by chy on October 8, 1999, at 23:23:40
Thanks for the info. Where can I learn more? The whole nutritional route is one I haven't taken, but have thought I should. I need the calcium anyway, and am having sleep problems from the higher dose of effexor that I'm on. Also, been wondering about not getting enough folic acid and B6 and B12 because I don't eat meat or poultry.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.