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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kay on November 6, 1999, at 1:19:57
For the sake of brevity, (my fingers from retyping this), and space, here we go!
-- 8 mos b4 phen/fen was d/c'd by FDA, was Rx'd it for wt. loss and did well.
-- 6 mos later "quicksand" type depression graduating to 2 mos of hvy dep. totalling 8 mos dep.
-- 85% wt returned, sought med help, Rx'd fen (alone)
-- due to bad bus. ethics (not medical!), d/c'd fen
-- doing ok w/ wt loss due to nutrition counseling/exercise/etc
-- began to sink again with dep
-- researched St John's Wort, started, did ok; Gradual decrease (not a pill popper), stayed ok for awhile.
-- dep returned - BAD! Learned St John's linked to Glaucoma. YIKES! G runs in family RAMPID!
-- don't want anti-dep meds that cause me to gain weight (already climbing AGAIN, durnit!), but dep sinking in really bad (yes, seeking help, but want to be INFORMED!). After all, doesn't weight gain = depression? ::wink::
-- is returning to Fen a good idea?ALSO: Is it true once synthetic seretonin is intro'd it causes natural ser to decrease or d/c?
Will ser replacements be a way of life?Thanks so much for any direction, information, etc. you can pass along to me. Yes, I realize a doc is the only true remedy, but we all know what that may mean too! :)
Posted by JohnL on November 6, 1999, at 3:19:38
In reply to Phen/Fen -> Depression -> St. John's Wort -> Glauc, posted by Kay on November 6, 1999, at 1:19:57
Hi Kay. Since you are dealing with weight gain, depression, and a reluctance to take prescrip medications, you might consider 5HTP. It is the raw material converted directly by the body into real serotonin. It is known to relieve depression, relieve insomnia, and decrease appetite. In a book on 5HTP it is used for weight control with or without accompanying depression. I say from personal experience it does indeed cause decreased appetite and weight loss. Especially if the brand is non-enteric coated. Enteric coated capsules are absorbed in the intestines. Non-enteric capsules dissolve in the stomach and "can" cause enough transient nausea to really stifle appetite.
Concerning St Johnswort and glaucoma, I've never heard of that. I would think that risk has to be so small as to be irrelevent, especially at normal everyday doses. Even if I was predisposed to glaucoma, I wouldn't let such a rare risk as that get in the way of treating more serious problems. I just think any glaucoma risk has got to be miniscule. Or else we would have heard more about it.
The best natural remedy I know of for your symptoms is a combination of St Johnswort AND 5HTP. I tried that once and was truly amazed how good I felt. And no appetite. The 5HTP caused some sort of strange intolerable urine burning that caused me to quit. That was so rare and unusual I have yet to find anyone that's heard of it or could begin to explain it. Anyway, for you, 5HTP with or without St Johnswort sounds to me like a very good treatment to try. It would address every single concern you mentioned in your post.
Posted by saint james on November 6, 1999, at 3:43:18
In reply to Phen/Fen -> Depression -> St. John's Wort -> Glauc, posted by Kay on November 6, 1999, at 1:19:57
> ALSO: Is it true once synthetic seretonin is intro'd it causes natural ser to decrease or d/c?
> Will ser replacements be a way of life?
>James here....
AD's are not "synthetic seretonin" AD's effect the natural seretonin already in your body.
Yes phen/fen can make you depressed or make existing depression worse. Take a look at Dr. Bob tips and tricks section http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/ check the box that says Phentermine and fenfluramine. People should not mix AD's and weight loss meds I think. There are reports of serotonin syndrome in people using AD + some weight loss meds.
In me Effexor makes me anything but hungry. Some report Wellby does this too. Another thought is Prozac at a higher than normal dose. Redux is a closely related to Prozac and higher doses of Prozac can cause weight loss. Kills 2 birds with 1 pill.
j
Posted by Kay on November 7, 1999, at 0:24:50
In reply to Re: In ge-> Depression -> St. John's Wort -> Glauc, posted by saint james on November 6, 1999, at 3:43:18
> > ALSO: Is it true once synthetic seretonin is intro'd it causes natural ser to decrease or d/c?
> > Will ser replacements be a way of life?
> >
>
> James here....
>
> AD's are not "synthetic seretonin" AD's effect the natural seretonin already in your body.Okay, but, they do 'unnaturally' increase the body's ability to produce serotonin, correct? And if that's the case, what happens when the serotonin booster is removed? Does the body ever return to producing the amount needed?
>
> Yes phen/fen can make you depressed or make existing depression worse. Take a look at Dr. Bob tips and tricks section http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/ check the box that says Phentermine and fenfluramine. People should not mix AD's and weight loss meds I think. There are reports of serotonin syndrome in people using AD + some weight loss meds.
>I think you lost something important here. The COMBINATION of Phen/Fen is no longer being used. I doubt there is a doc in the US that will prescribe the combo. =:) My question is specific to PHENTERMINE. It's difficult to find information specific to this drug on its own merits. Every article seems to mix the two together even tho there was a time, and still continues to be the time when Phen (sorry, previously I used the wrong abrev.) was Rx'd alone. That's where I'm in question.
> In me Effexor makes me anything but hungry. Some report Wellby does this too. Another thought is Prozac at a higher than normal dose. Redux is a closely related to Prozac and higher doses of Prozac can cause weight loss. Kills 2 birds with 1 pill.
>
> jRedux is just as lethal and problematic as the Phen/Fen combo. It's been linked to a number of medical problems. I'll keep researching.
Thanks for your feedback! :)
Kay
Posted by Kay on November 7, 1999, at 0:30:43
In reply to Re: Phen/Fen -> Depression -> St. John's Wort -> Glauc, posted by JohnL on November 6, 1999, at 3:19:38
> The best natural remedy I know of for your symptoms is a combination of St Johnswort AND 5HTP. I tried that once and was truly amazed how good I felt. And no appetite. The 5HTP caused some sort of strange intolerable urine burning that caused me to quit. That was so rare and unusual I have yet to find anyone that's heard of it or could begin to explain it. Anyway, for you, 5HTP with or without St Johnswort sounds to me like a very good treatment to try. It would address every single concern you mentioned in your post.
>I thank you for your input. Are you at all familiar with Glaucoma? I ask this because of your response. It's something I'm not willing to tangle with. And just because the info may not be widespread, yet, I trust the info implicity because of the source I received it from. To me, St Johns is simply NOT an option. And as far as natural remedies, I'm not so convinced they are the option. I am concerned about the lack of knowledge we have over all the possible side effects because they aren't FDA tested.
Thanks again! I'll keep researching! :)
Posted by saint james on November 7, 1999, at 1:49:29
In reply to Re: In ge-> Depression -> St. John's Wort -> Glauc, posted by Kay on November 7, 1999, at 0:24:50
Redux is a closely related to Prozac and higher doses of Prozac can cause weight loss. Kills 2 birds with 1 pill.
> >
> > j
>
> Redux is just as lethal and problematic as the Phen/Fen combo. It's been linked to a number of medical problems. I'll keep researching.
>
James here...I was sugesting you try prozac not trying Redux.
It does not matter to me if is phen/fen, redux, preludin, didrex, the all have caused depression is some or interacted badly with AD. I don't like any of the "diet pills"
On prozac you may get the same effect a Redux or phen/fen w/o the assoc problems.
j
This is the end of the thread.
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