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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jenny on April 22, 2000, at 23:14:28
I started on Serzone 13 months ago. My main complaint was waking up multiple times in the night and being unable to return to sleep for hours and sometimes early morning wakening. I considered it insomnnia, but read on the internet that if sleep problems hang on for a long time it's probably depression. I then did some depression inventories and scored high. I am now on serzone. The serzone at 300 mg at bedtime helped for a number of months. Then I started waking up again, and I was upped to 400 mg. That was good for a few months. The doctor tried to wean my off, reducing it to 300 mg and my sleep immediately deteriorated. He put me back to the 400. Now I'm again beginning to awaken in the middle of the night and have some early morning wakenings. Now I am starting to freak out. I am thinking I probably need to be upped to 500 mg. Then the 500 will help for a while, then I'll have to have it upped to 600. Then that won't work after a while and I will have maxed out. Then I'll be put on something else with worse side effects. And then I'll be going from one to another in a way that most of you describe. Originally he said I'd be on for 6-9 months. Clearly that was way too optimistic. I'm probably chronic. This all really upsets me terribly because I was always very perfectionist, very hard on myself, and have a very hard time admitting to myself that I am someone who "suffers from depression" - a psychiatric thing. But I have been reading your posts, and I so admire how courageous you all are. Most of you have been through hell with switching around on medications. And none of you seem to be in denial about the reality of your situations. I am having major trouble accepting that this is my reality and may be for the rest of my life. I give you all tremendous credit for your honesy and forthrightness and, again, courage.
Posted by bob on April 23, 2000, at 0:39:37
In reply to Serzone, etc., posted by Jenny on April 22, 2000, at 23:14:28
Hi Jenny,
> I then did some depression inventories and scored high.
Bet those were the first tests you took that you didn't want a "perfect" score on, eh? ;^)
> ... serzone at 300 mg ... upped to 400 mg ... probably need to be upped to 500 mg ... Then 600...
Whoa! Perhaps it's time to think about a different med. You're right in that sleep problems can be symptoms of depression, and given all your "perfectionist" confessions I'd say you've got even more evidence.
Are you seeing a general practitioner for your meds? GPs are great for lots of things, but it may be time to see a pro if you're not already seeing a psychiatrist or psychopharmacologist. Are you seeing a therapist? Unless it's a purely biochemical condition, you should treat your disorder from all possible avenues.
And if sleep really is a problem, make sure you look at the thread above on "Most sedating ADs" by Paul. He's having trouble with his sleep, too, and lots of folks chimed in up there about what meds can help. Bring that info in with you next time you see your doctor -- you should know what options you have other than just piling on more of what might not be working.
Don't let your fear or disappointment stop you from getting the best treatment you can. You deserve nothing less.
Now pardon me, because (as usual) I'm gonna get up on my soap box...
> This all really upsets me terribly ... have a very hard time admitting to myself that I am someone who "suffers from depression" - a psychiatric thing... I am having major trouble accepting that this is my reality and may be for the rest of my life. I give you all tremendous credit for your honesy and forthrightness and, again, courage.
Hey, like my Grandma always used to say, when you point your finger at someone, there's always three pointing back at you. Or, like I like to say, Jenny, it takes one to know one.
Don't tell us about our courage -- you're right, we've been where you are, and admitting the "truth" to ourselves takes a helluva lot of courage. Perhaps more for folks like you who DO drive themselves so hard, because you're probably being doubly hard on yourself about it now ESPECIALLY because most of what you know is based on our culture's stereotypes and stigmas for folk like us.
So forget that "it's a psychiatric thing", okay? Sure, there may be aspects of your environment or the way you were raised or whatever that "made" you depressed, but there are also people out there who went through similar experiences and aren't depressed. Why? Sure, not everyone here agrees with this answer, but biochemistry has a lot to do with it.
I have a brother who's 376 days younger than me, and we went through the same grief growing up. But he's got a beautiful family, a good career, and has never once shown the signs of what I've gone through. He's got darker hair, he's 3 inches shorter and 20 pounds heavier, he can't touch my SAT scores but he can yank an engine from a car, take it apart, fix what's wrong, and put it back together in a way I'll never comprehend. For all the genes we share not just because we're both human, but because we share the same parents, and for all the life experiences we shared at practically the same developmental periods of our "formative years", we still have our fundamental differences. He's not depressed, and I am. He's said he cannot even imagine why anyone would want to kill himself, and I've tried ... and I still understand perfectly why someone, why I, would want this.
If you ask me, I'd say our brains handle neurotransmitters rather differently.
Some people think that if you're depressed, then you just have to "buck up", pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and get over it. Last time I checked, I didn't see any bootstraps on any of the chemical formulae for any medications or any neurotransmitters, for that matter.
Would you be so tough on yourself if you had diabetes? No, I imagine you'd take your meds and get some nutritional counseling and learn what not to eat or what positive things you could do to help manage your disorder. Me? My cholesterol sucks. But I take my Lipitor, I watch what I eat, and Lord knows I try to exercise (actually, the Lord knows quite well all the excuses I make for not exercising!). But I do what I can to manage the disorder in my system that cannot regulate how my body handles cholesterol.
If you're going to face up to having a neurological disorder and be honest with yourself, then start by shedding all the lies our culture has taught you about "us". You listen to the Indigo Girls? Emily Sailers has a song on their latest disc that, IMO, touches so well on this stigma:
"You tell me it's temporary, it's a matter of time
By God, don't you think I know it's in my mind?
And it's right over left, and healing the then
I'll soon be to nothing, but I don't know when."Yeah, it's in your mind, but it's nothing you can wish away. It's in your brain. It's in your genes. It's also in your memories, your beliefs, the way you push yourself so hard to be perfect and it's particularly in whatever or whoever taught you that "perfect" was something you needed to be. But it's not just healing the "then" -- it's healing the now and the future. And it's never settling for being able to say "Oh, it's nothing." What we all are going through is definitely NOT nothing, nor should that be a goal. We all deserve better than getting back to it all being nothing.
If yesterday you thought "I'm just fine" and were wrong, but today you think "I'm depressed" and you're right -- then you are a BETTER person today because of it. Depression is not a fault of character.
Give yourself some credit, Jenny, you HAVE earned it. And go get yourself the care you deserve.
And welcome to Babbleland,
bob =^)
Posted by JohnL on April 23, 2000, at 5:17:29
In reply to Serzone, etc., posted by Jenny on April 22, 2000, at 23:14:28
Jenny,
I can sure relate to your story. You are a very strong person. I'm so sorry you have to deal with the suffering you do.I've often thought that when we die we don't need to go to hell because we've already been there!
I've been to hell and back several times, and I think that is what has taught me to accept that I have a psychiatric chemistry condition requiring permanent medication to correct. I must admit, it has taken years to accept. And I still have a hard time with it from time to time.
Take good care of yourself. Continually keep your eyes and ears open for the best doc you can possibly find. And don't be afraid to ditch a disappointing drug in favor of exploring and comparing other ones, especially ones in other classes. Just because we suffer from depression doesn't mean an antidepressant will correct the cause. Other classes of drugs, such as stimulants, antipsychotics, and mood stabilizers are powerful tools in treating depression. Especially when antidepressants provide frustrating results. Those frustrating results simply indicate they are missing the mark--not targeting the correct chemistry.
Wishing you a smooth day. JohnL
Posted by allisonm on April 23, 2000, at 15:52:25
In reply to Serzone, etc., posted by Jenny on April 22, 2000, at 23:14:28
Jenny,
I went through the same thing. My main complaint was bad insomnia, but I wasn't feeling very good either. I work at a university, and one day while reading the weekly university paper I saw a call for folks with insomnia and depression for a drug study in the university's sleep lab. I called up, got screened, got accepted and spent three nights with electrodes glued to my head while two guys in the next room watched my brainwaves and me sleeping via infrared camera all night long. The drug they were testing was Aricept. Turns out it did help. But I digress.
After the trial, I said to one of the researchers "OK, so you've watched my brain and studied my sleep. Tell me how I can get to sleep." The reply: when you get rid of the depression. I was floored. Dumbfounded. Shocked. Hence the start of this hellish journey.
Anyway, a psychiatrist was recommended by the university researchers. After a few failed trials, eventually got on Remeron, which like Serzone helps with sleep. I've been on it for a little over 2 years. It does help with sleep. It has not failed me once. Trouble is, I'm where you are. Feeling worse. More drugs get added. Feeling OK for awhile then worse again. (See thread: I am soooooo sick of this).
So, I'm asking for a change on Tuesday. Maybe he'll take me off the Remeron and put me on Serzone. Hey, I'll trade ya! If I go on your Serzone and you go on my Remeron, maybe we won't upset the balance of this reality. (kidding, kidding...)
Sorry, I don't have an answer, just know I know where you are. I wish you well. If I learn anything Tuesday I'll let you know.
allison
This is the end of the thread.
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