![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LizG on October 7, 2000, at 16:13:48
I have read several articles which point out that a lot of depression is NOT chemical.
Does anyone agree that it can be cured without drugs and that doctors prescribe them because it is 'the easy way out'??
thoughts please
Posted by shellie on October 7, 2000, at 19:26:27
In reply to Cures for Depression?, posted by LizG on October 7, 2000, at 16:13:48
> I have read several articles which point out that a lot of depression is NOT chemical.
>
> Does anyone agree that it can be cured without drugs and that doctors prescribe them because it is 'the easy way out'??
>
> thoughts pleaseThere's a related thread on psycho-social babble called Treating Depression without Medication started on 9/13/00. You might want to check that and continue the discussion over there. Shellie
Posted by noa on October 8, 2000, at 9:41:37
In reply to Re: Cures for Depression? » LizG, posted by shellie on October 7, 2000, at 19:26:27
Depression comes in many varieties of intensity, chronicity, recurrence or lack thereof, rate of onset, connection to external or internal triggers, heredity factors, etc., so, it would be hard, IMHO, to make a single statement to address all varieties.
There is so much mutual influence between the brain and experience that it is often hard to separate a "cause" perse, and so too, for many people, some combo of medicine and therapy is helpful.. For some people, therapy and other strategies can work without meds. For others, therapy just doesn't get anywhere unless meds are used, still others are helped by meds, but therapy enhances their progress, and for others, meds work alone (although IMHO, it is likely that a person who has been struggling with any kind of recurrent or chronic form of depression would benefit from some therapy to help with the secondary effects of living with this disease).
In short, no easy answers.
Posted by stjames on October 9, 2000, at 1:11:38
In reply to Re: Cures for Depression?, posted by noa on October 8, 2000, at 9:41:37
Depression is a big term with many causes. There is situational and biochemical depression. We know that those with situational depression left untreated will also become biochemically depressed. There is a cure for situational depression (situational depression=ones situation is causing the depression) in thearpy. Some folks, like me, just have biochemical depression.
All the pdoc's I have seen do ask questions to discover if depression has it's roots in behavior or past experiences. I did 6 months of psycothearpy which helped with many things but did nothing for my depression. Medical problems take a medical treatment. I think everyone should do some thearpy and studies show the combo of meds and thearpy more effective the either one alone.It is also imoportant to remember pdoc's are medical docs, there is too much study involved in getting an MD and then a specality to study human behavior in depth like a thearpist.
james
Posted by doug cater on October 10, 2000, at 20:50:55
In reply to Re: Cures for Depression? » LizG, posted by shellie on October 7, 2000, at 19:26:27
depression may not be chemical, but I have always felt that some people are innately predisposed to see the glass half empty others half full. That is, in percieving the very sam reality, some would see all that is missing and be given to despair whereas others would focus only on all that remains, a wealth of possibilities, resources and options. Why? Because they choose to do so? I don't think so. That's just their nature. Therein lies the key to depression, the dwelling on all that's against you, all that's missing as opposed to setting to work immediatly to capitalize innovatively on all that's still available to you. Is that turnabout in attitude an option open to everyone, but only the worthy with character and courage muster? I don't think that seeing the glass as half full is a choice or effort of will, it just comes naturally to those who are not cursed by depression. And I know well from experience that when I take a catalyst which stimulates the dopamine receptors, I can go from disorganized inertia to an organized plan of action in a very shot while. In the years to come, the science of neurotransmitters will become much more finetuned and the ability to detect which areas of the brain are dormant or overactive with such methods of detection as SPECT (single photon emission controlled topography, a technique of viewing which areas of the brain light up when trying to perform concentrated tasks, likened to lifting the hood on a car to find out what is going on with the engine rather than just guessing from afar as is commonly done now) will improve exponetially.
Posted by PuraVida on October 11, 2000, at 4:41:12
In reply to Cures for Depression?, posted by LizG on October 7, 2000, at 16:13:48
Hi Liz, from Liz... :)
I seem to be prone to depression, and have had some pretty bad bouts in the past 5 years. I worked from home so I could go days - weeks - without getting out of the bed or house - this is how bad I was.
My take is that true depression is probably chemical, but that meds won't "cure" you without a lot of effort on your part. What they'll do if you are depressed is help lift the fog that is probably keeping you from thinking rationally and clearly.
I have been on meds most of the time since 1996. I stopped taking them after the initial 7 or 8 months, and landed right back in the whole a few months later, this time worse than before. (Stupid pride thinking I could handle it all myself!) Since then I've come to terms with the chemical reality, and have promised myself to stay on them until my mind gets in the habit of thinking clearly again. They are my safety net while I get me life fully restored to who I used to be. I figure when I've had a whole year without even a glimpse of the cloud, I'll consider easing off them slowly - very slowly.
However, even with steady meds I have days and weeks that are better than others. My suggestion, along with meds, is to eat good, healthy foods, get out doors, exercise, and surround yourself with positive experiences and people. Force yourself to be social. Experiment with vitamins and holistic approaches to health. Hypnotherapy, as well as traditional psychotherapy, has helped me. So does getting massages and mainucures, and even the tanning bed in the winter! Treat yourself well. Buy yourself flowers. Treat others well. Volunteer to raise a dog for the blind (so you HAVE to get out!), or teach kids how to read. Go over to a friends and help them with thier latest project. Best yet - get a change of scenery - pack a backpack with a journal and your meds and hike a mountain or catch a flight to India to see how much "pain" others experience. Why do our Western cultures get depressed, when life flows so regularly in other areas of the world? Travel to other countries is possible the best therapy I've found. It's a pain to get yourself there, but once you do, it can be very freeing.
Maybe you are "dead" inside because your environment "killed" you - but really, you've just gone into hibernation. Go live a little! Life is a process, not a goal - take a step each day and you'll be suprised at how it starts to be easier. Its when we sit still for so long, or push ourselves too hard that it takes so much effort to take steps, so take one everyday, no more no less, and off you'll go.
I found that my job was killing me, literally. It had damaged me so much that the clouds are still lifting more and more ten months later. The meds kept me alive and eventually I was able to see that I was was fighting a loosing battle trying to triumph in that world. My thinking was so twisted at the time though, that I kept pounding away, blaming myself so much that it kept me in the constant cycle of hopelessness.
My thoughts: do anything and everything you can to feel better - it all ends up coming together. Tell yourself, and believe it, that "this too, shall pass" Learn what makes you feel good, and when you don't feel good, roll with it - don't blame yourself. I do believe depression is an illness - like the flu. Would you not take asprin for a fever? Would you feel so terribly guilty for not looking/acting/being perfect when you were so pysically ill? So it is with depression - you can take the asprin, run a hot bath, get your friends (and yourself!) to bring you flowers and soup, but until you start feeling better, there is no point in beating yourself up.
Hope this helped - sorry its so long, but I get on a roll!
Liz
> I have read several articles which point out that a lot of depression is NOT chemical.
>
> Does anyone agree that it can be cured without drugs and that doctors prescribe them because it is 'the easy way out'??
>
> thoughts please
Posted by pullmarine on October 12, 2000, at 0:54:23
In reply to Cures for Depression?, posted by LizG on October 7, 2000, at 16:13:48
> I have read several articles which point out that a lot of depression is NOT chemical.
Most depressions will disappear with or without treatment within four months. As for the chemical part, we're large living test tubes full of chemicals. Ultimatly everything we see, feel or go through is chmical. and yes, there are many non-pharmaceutical ways of overcoming depression.
Here's a few:
1. Get laid. it's the best upper in the world.
2. Do something wild fun and impulsive.
3. take a depression test (this one is harder)and reverse each statement. for instance:"I have no idea where I'll be in five years.
a. don't agree
b agree
c strongly agree"Reverse each of the statements in the test (ie, I know where i'll be in five years. In five yeras i wil .......) and write a paragraph or so for each, and try to make plans to reach those goals. If you're really down, this excercise might take several days, but it will help you get out of the funk very quickly. Ultimatly it doesn't matter if you change those goals in the long-run or not.
4. try to remember a time in your life when you felt really good. concentrate on that moment everyday for five minutes and try to remember every detail. If you're really down. remembering such a time could take a couple of days. don't give up.
5. Set small goals for yourself.
6 gradually work yourself into a routine and stick to it no matter what.
this data is available in many books.love,
john
john
>
> Does anyone agree that it can be cured without drugs and that doctors prescribe them because it is 'the easy way out'??
>
> thoughts please
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.