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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rogdog on November 29, 2000, at 16:02:14
hey guys ,I am taking 2.5 mg of zyprexa and 75 mg of effexor 3mg of xanax a day mainly for ocd and social anxiety. my question is.. this combo is helping with the obsessive thoughts and the zyprexa is definitly a big factor in that, but it seems to take alot of my motivation away, I am wondering if amisulpiride would be as helpful for the negative obsssive thoughts as the zyprexa but mabey help a little more with motivation, social phobia type of deal? my mood is almost numb or just blah!! with zyprexa. I know one or both of you guys take amisulpiride with adrafinil and it has worked great for you, but when you tried amisulpiride alone what kind of effect did it have?im thinking of stopping effexor and trying adrafinil.thanks so much, rog
Posted by JohnL on November 30, 2000, at 4:33:16
In reply to AmisUlPiRiDe: to andrew, johnl L or anyone, posted by rogdog on November 29, 2000, at 16:02:14
Howdy,
It's no secret I'm a big fan of Amisulpride and Adrafinil. So I would strongly agree they are worth a try.Adrafinil is unique in that it even works with normal people. Some of the expected effects are: passive people become more active, quiet people become more talkative, shy people become more outgoing. These would all seem encouraging if trying to treat social anxiety.
Amisulpride alone can have the same effects, though it's a little different flavor. Hard to explain. And even though both are usually on the slightly-stimulating side rather than sedating, they also can also reduce anxiety simultaneously. Of course there are exceptions, but that is generally what I've experienced and generally what I've heard from others. I have always been shy and reserved, but with these drugs I find myself comfortable in a crowd and comfortable talking to anyone in any situation.
I have heard of one person who was not helped by these drugs. Another got sedated on Amisulpride. Another got anxiety from Amisulpride. So there are exceptions. But usually I think you can expect good things to happen if you are trying to treat social anxiety. As I've often stated, I think Amisulpride+Adrafinil together are far better than either alone. For me a mere 33mg Amisulpride + 300mg Adrafinil works well. Expect anywhere from one day to three weeks to experience good changes in your symptoms. I've noticed other people usually take higher doses than I do, so that's certainly worth trying if low doses aren't enough. Either or both of these drugs stand an excellent chance of wiping out those blah numb feelings you are having, while at the same time improving your core symptoms. Definitely worth a try as I see it.
You may be able to reduce doses of Effexor and Xanax too. But, one thing at a time to avoid confusing results is usually a good idea. Admittedly I don't always follow this good idea myself. Sometimes I screw things all up and have no idea which drug did what, sometimes I get lucky. With Amisulpride+Adrafinil, and a small dose SSRI(Prozac) in the backgound, I got lucky.
John
Posted by CraigF on November 30, 2000, at 16:34:30
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: to andrew, johnl L or anyone, posted by JohnL on November 30, 2000, at 4:33:16
Do you experience sexual side effects on this mix, and would you recommend it to someone with depression (I'm not sure which kind), General anxiety, obsessive tendencies, and social anxiety?
Posted by CarolAnn on November 30, 2000, at 19:00:37
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: to andrew, johnl L or anyone, posted by JohnL on November 30, 2000, at 4:33:16
Hey JohnL! Well, I'm on week four of Adrafinil, and can't see much difference, BUT I am going thru some intense circumstances which may be skewing things. Anyway, re: amisulpride - what class of drug is it? any dietary restrictions or medicine interactions?
thanx yet again for your most excellent help! CarolAnn
Posted by michael on November 30, 2000, at 19:20:39
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: to andrew, johnl L or anyone, posted by JohnL on November 30, 2000, at 4:33:16
Hey John,
Just for the record, I think I may have been the one you're thinking of who reported sedation w/amisulpride. It was pretty significant - slept at least 12 - 15 hours a day. Totally disappointed me.
However, that was a week after I had stopped a trial of prozac, and I think that's significant. I think the interaction or combination of the two is what did me in (the long half-life of prozac...)
I say this because I'm trying it again, (w/o any prozac) and not having that type of response... It's only been a week or so, but last time, I only tried it for a week, because the sedation was so significant, and set in immediately.
This time I'm trying it in addition to the adrafinil I've been using (ever hear of that idea anywhere?). It may be a bit early to tell, but I think I may getting the kind of response I have read about, and had been hoping for the first time I tried it. (addressing anhedonia/fatigue issues).
Anyway, glad to hear things are going well for you, and just wanted to clarify why I think I had that reaction to the amisulpride on that occasion. Keeping my fingers crossed...
michael
> Howdy,
> It's no secret I'm a big fan of Amisulpride and Adrafinil. So I would strongly agree they are worth a try.
>
> Adrafinil is unique in that it even works with normal people. Some of the expected effects are: passive people become more active, quiet people become more talkative, shy people become more outgoing. These would all seem encouraging if trying to treat social anxiety.
>
> Amisulpride alone can have the same effects, though it's a little different flavor. Hard to explain. And even though both are usually on the slightly-stimulating side rather than sedating, they also can also reduce anxiety simultaneously. Of course there are exceptions, but that is generally what I've experienced and generally what I've heard from others. I have always been shy and reserved, but with these drugs I find myself comfortable in a crowd and comfortable talking to anyone in any situation.
>
> I have heard of one person who was not helped by these drugs. Another got sedated on Amisulpride. Another got anxiety from Amisulpride. So there are exceptions. But usually I think you can expect good things to happen if you are trying to treat social anxiety. As I've often stated, I think Amisulpride+Adrafinil together are far better than either alone. For me a mere 33mg Amisulpride + 300mg Adrafinil works well. Expect anywhere from one day to three weeks to experience good changes in your symptoms. I've noticed other people usually take higher doses than I do, so that's certainly worth trying if low doses aren't enough. Either or both of these drugs stand an excellent chance of wiping out those blah numb feelings you are having, while at the same time improving your core symptoms. Definitely worth a try as I see it.
>
> You may be able to reduce doses of Effexor and Xanax too. But, one thing at a time to avoid confusing results is usually a good idea. Admittedly I don't always follow this good idea myself. Sometimes I screw things all up and have no idea which drug did what, sometimes I get lucky. With Amisulpride+Adrafinil, and a small dose SSRI(Prozac) in the backgound, I got lucky.
> John
Posted by AndrewB on December 1, 2000, at 2:15:31
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: questions for JohnL, posted by CarolAnn on November 30, 2000, at 19:00:37
For info. on what drug combinations are ok email me for an info piece at andrewb@seanet.com. Be sure to include your background: your symptomology/diagnosis and what drug you have or are taking and your responses to them.
AndrewB
Posted by JohnL on December 1, 2000, at 4:29:29
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: questions for JohnL, posted by CarolAnn on November 30, 2000, at 19:00:37
> Hey JohnL! Well, I'm on week four of Adrafinil, and can't see much difference, BUT I am going thru some intense circumstances which may be skewing things. Anyway, re: amisulpride - what class of drug is it? any dietary restrictions or medicine interactions?
> thanx yet again for your most excellent help! CarolAnnCarolAnne,
Since you are already taking Adrafinil, I like the idea of adding Amisulpride to it. I know I've said it here many times, but for me either Amisulpride or Adrafinil are just OK, but together they are magic. No idea why. In your shoes, knowing what I know now as I look back, I would stay on Adrafinil and get some Amisulpride to add to it. Don't dump the Adrafinil just yet, not until you've tried adding Amisulpride to it for about 4 weeks.No diet restrictions. No drug interactions I'm aware of, since I've combined it experimentally with a variety of different things. It is in the antipyschotic class. But unlike most APs, it has two personalities. At low doses (25mg to 100mg) it acts primarily as a slightly stimulating antidepressant by enhancing dopamine function, especially good if symptoms are anhenonia, apathy, low motivation, social anxiety. At high doses it acts like an antipsychotic. Compared to other meds you've tried, Amisulpride will likely seem almost as mild as candy in terms of side effects.
But again, I wouldn't ditch the Adrafinil. I can't emphasize it strongly enough...the two drugs together work tons better than either alone. Try it and see! :-) Hopefully you'll get the same good response I have. There's a chance you might not, but I'm optimistic you will like this combination. Just for the record, I also take a tiny dose of Prozac (5mg or 10mg per day). It never helped me much by itself, but it does seem to enhance the Adrafinil in particular.
John
Posted by CarolAnn on December 1, 2000, at 9:47:23
In reply to Re: Amisulpride: CarolAnn, posted by AndrewB on December 1, 2000, at 2:15:31
Hey AndrewB, thank you for the offer of info, and I do want to take you up on it. Just at the moment though, am dealing with a chronic pain thing and can't think well enough to outline my history of depression and treatment. Will be e-mailing you, hopefully next week sometime.
best wishes, CarolAnn
Posted by S. Howard on December 1, 2000, at 22:27:57
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: questions for JohnL CarolAnn, posted by JohnL on December 1, 2000, at 4:29:29
John-
Well you've sold me on this stuff. I've had it with paxil. You've had no problems with customs ordering this stuff without an Rx from the place in Italy?
Thanks-
Gracie
Posted by JohnL on December 2, 2000, at 5:05:55
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: questions for JohnL , posted by S. Howard on December 1, 2000, at 22:27:57
>
> John-
> Well you've sold me on this stuff. I've had it with paxil. You've had no problems with customs ordering this stuff without an Rx from the place in Italy?
> Thanks-
> Gracie
S. Howard,
I didn't intend to sound like I was making a sales pitch for any particular medicine. That being said, I think if you choose Amisulpride it could be a lot more favorable to you than Paxil has been. :-) Even without knowing what type of depression you have, statistically the odds are in your favor. That's because statistically in head-to-head trials against Prozac, Amisulpride had good results. Since the serotonin route didn't work well for you, the odds have automatically increased that a different route will.Customs has never been a problem because these are not illegal or controlled substances. Twice my packages appeared to have been opened and re-sealed, and they had a green Customs label on the outside that said 'supplements'.
If you do try Amisulpride I think it would be a good idea to have some Adrafinil in your possession on a stand-by basis. It only costs about $25. The reason I say this is because it has proven to me to be a real good turbocharger of Amisulpride if Amisulpride alone doesn't work as completely as I would want it to.
Of course, this is a completely different arena. Ordering one's own medicines, self directing one's own dosing and such, is not appropriate for a lot of people. But for those of us who have chosen this route, it has been safe and effective despite the warnings of self medication. Personally I have no problem with the idea of self medication, as long as the person is well-informed of what they're doing. It's not to be done in too cavalier a fashion. Not to be done blindly.
To learn more about Amisulpride you might want to email AndrewB. He has put together a comprehensive information piece on Amisulpride. If you want to learn more about Adrafinil, let me know. I can supply you with all the info I have gathered on it.
John
Posted by S. Howard on December 2, 2000, at 16:58:14
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: reply to S.Howard, posted by JohnL on December 2, 2000, at 5:05:55
John-
No of course I didn't really take it as a sales pitch. I just meant that the symptoms you described in your first posts- being reserved, passive, quiet, shy- are very familiar to me. I take depakote and seroquel for anxiety and insomnia and they work quite well, but nothing has helped my social phobia. I pretty much avoid everybody but my immediate family, including my neighbors and even old friends. Often, making "small talk" is just agony for me. I don't mind writing (obviously) but real social interaction,
particularly in a crowd, seems to be beyond me these days.
I understand the risks of self-medication, but I'm anxious to try this route because I don't have a great relationship with my psychiatrist, and we are both at fault. I don't keep all my appointments because, some days, I just can't force myself to leave the house. This upsets her and I am charged for missing appointments, even though she schedules patients only 15 minutes apart. Fair enough. However, she takes extended trips to Pakistan without referring me to another doctor during her absence, possibly because of
the appointments I've missed. I don't think this is too professional. Also, she's quite young, and I am beginning to think that I need a pdoc with more experience. In the meantime, while I scout around, I would like to try these other drugs.
While I'm waiting for them to arrive I will find out as much about them as I can, and use them as conservatively as possible. If they work, TERRIFIC! You get all the credit and my deepest
gratitude. If they don't, I will set them aside with the paxil and the prozac and the wellbutrin
and go from there.I just have to keep trying! The other night I was watching 'Papillion', probably one of the best movies ever made. There is one scene where Papillion is dreaming or hallucinating from starvation. He walks up to a magistrate and says
(something like) "I didn't kill that pimp." The
judge says, "I accuse you of something much worse than being a pimp-killer. I accuse you of the worst crime a human being can commit. I accuse you of a wasted life!"
Then old Steve hangs his head and says, "Guilty."Wow, that got to me.
Anyway...thanks for everything. Sorry if this is overlong.
-Gracie
Posted by Katz on February 1, 2001, at 16:55:10
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: reply to S.Howard, posted by S. Howard on December 2, 2000, at 16:58:14
>
> John-
> No of course I didn't really take it as a sales pitch. I just meant that the symptoms you described in your first posts- being reserved, passive, quiet, shy- are very familiar to me. I take depakote and seroquel for anxiety and insomnia and they work quite well, but nothing has helped my social phobia. I pretty much avoid everybody but my immediate family, including my neighbors and even old friends. Often, making "small talk" is just agony for me. I don't mind writing (obviously) but real social interaction,
> particularly in a crowd, seems to be beyond me these days.
> I understand the risks of self-medication, but I'm anxious to try this route because I don't have a great relationship with my psychiatrist, and we are both at fault. I don't keep all my appointments because, some days, I just can't force myself to leave the house. This upsets her and I am charged for missing appointments, even though she schedules patients only 15 minutes apart. Fair enough. However, she takes extended trips to Pakistan without referring me to another doctor during her absence, possibly because of
> the appointments I've missed. I don't think this is too professional. Also, she's quite young, and I am beginning to think that I need a pdoc with more experience. In the meantime, while I scout around, I would like to try these other drugs.
> While I'm waiting for them to arrive I will find out as much about them as I can, and use them as conservatively as possible. If they work, TERRIFIC! You get all the credit and my deepest
> gratitude. If they don't, I will set them aside with the paxil and the prozac and the wellbutrin
> and go from there.
>
> I just have to keep trying! The other night I was watching 'Papillion', probably one of the best movies ever made. There is one scene where Papillion is dreaming or hallucinating from starvation. He walks up to a magistrate and says
> (something like) "I didn't kill that pimp." The
> judge says, "I accuse you of something much worse than being a pimp-killer. I accuse you of the worst crime a human being can commit. I accuse you of a wasted life!"
> Then old Steve hangs his head and says, "Guilty."
>
> Wow, that got to me.
>
> Anyway...thanks for everything. Sorry if this is overlong.
> -GracieWow that got me too!!! "A wasted life", are the pitiful words I have always used to describe mine. As for everything else you have written, Gracie, they are words that could have come from my own mouth. I have just begun a trial of amisulpride and andrafinil. I was wondering, if you're still out there, how you made out with this dazzling duo? Did they work for you?
Kathy
Posted by JohnL on February 3, 2001, at 5:18:33
In reply to Re: AmisUlPiRiDe: reply to S.Howard » S. Howard, posted by Katz on February 1, 2001, at 16:55:10
> Wow that got me too!!! "A wasted life", are the pitiful words I have always used to describe mine. As for everything else you have written, Gracie, they are words that could have come from my own mouth. I have just begun a trial of amisulpride and andrafinil. I was wondering, if you're still out there, how you made out with this dazzling duo? Did they work for you?
>
> Kathy
Amisulpride and Adrafinil are still working well for me. I didn't think results could be made any better, but recently I switched my sleep medicine from small dose Remeron(7.5mg)to small dose Zyprexa(3.3mg). I used to sleep a lot better on Remeron, but the last few months it seemed to have lost its umph. I felt so much better with Zyprexa in about 24 hours! Sleep is much better, and my mood is much brighter. I was sure it was a fluke, yet the goodness continues day after day. So my main drugs are Adrafinil and Amisulpride, with a little Prozac in the background (seems to work like a turbocharger for the other drugs, but does little by itself) with small dose Zyprexa for sleep.If anyone asked what I took to cure my depression, I would have to say an antidepressant, a stimulant, and two antipsychotics. Yikes. It sounds heavy duty. In actuality though all the doses are at or below minimum doses, so it's actually pretty conservative. And it works. That's all I care about. Too much of my life has already been wasted. I don't want to go back to that. Whatever works is just fine with me.
John
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