![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saskia on January 7, 2001, at 11:05:52
I want to try St. John's Wort instead of trazadone for depression and anxiety. My doctor says St. John's is similar to an MAO inhibitor and has more side effects then trazadone plus you have to be careful about various foods combined with St. John's. Not to undermine my doc. but does anyone else know this to be true. I can't think that even if it does have side effects it cannot be as bad as trazadone.
Posted by Dave on January 7, 2001, at 14:17:28
In reply to St. John's Wort, posted by saskia on January 7, 2001, at 11:05:52
Hi saskia,
You're doctor is wrong. There are many published studies confirming St. Johns Wort to be a safe and effective antidepressant for mild to moderate depression with almost no side effects. While it's antidepressant action is not fully understood MAO inhibition is extremely weak in St. Johns Wort and not believed to account for much in it's action. Many people including myself and a few others on this board have succesfully combined it with antidepressants with no ill effects. SJW could be a great alternative for you. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks to really kick in and if you decide to try it only buy the brands that have standardized extracts. Movana is my favorite. It is standardized to 3-5% hyperforin which is believed to be the active ingredient not hypericin.
Check out these two websites as well.
www.hypericum.com and www.movana.comHope this helps!
Also check out this web site: www.hypericum.com
Posted by Dave on January 7, 2001, at 14:24:20
In reply to Re: St. John's Wort, posted by Dave on January 7, 2001, at 14:17:28
Hi,
I have been taking about 1200mgs. of movana brand St. Johns Wort for about 3months now. It has been great for mood and energy. I have seen a new brand called New Chapter out that is standardized to a whopping 10% hyperforin. That's some strong stuff! They advertise it as a once daily dosing which would be great. Does anyone on this board have any experience with the efficacy and qaulity of this brand? How about it's claim to one dose a day? Thanks.
Posted by JohnL on January 7, 2001, at 18:21:14
In reply to St. John's Wort, posted by saskia on January 7, 2001, at 11:05:52
> I want to try St. John's Wort instead of trazadone for depression and anxiety. My doctor says St. John's is similar to an MAO inhibitor and has more side effects then trazadone plus you have to be careful about various foods combined with St. John's. Not to undermine my doc. but does anyone else know this to be true. I can't think that even if it does have side effects it cannot be as bad as trazadone.
The doctor is stating beliefs based on ancient research. It used to be assumed that SJW worked like an MAO inhibitor, and thus required food restrictions. More recent research has shown that SJW inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and GABA in approximately equal weightings. If there is any MAO activity at all, it is insignificant and is usually only found in the raw herb, not in the extracts.
Another common myth about SJW is skin sensitivity. This usually only occurs with huge doses, and is mainly a small risk with only certain ethnic groups who have very fair skin.
SJW does have side effects. They usually go away much faster than antidepressants. Some people get a little tired. Some people instead get a little fidgety or anxious. These are early side effects that disappear pretty quickly. Compared to Trazodone though, SJW will seem like candy.
If you decide to try it, expect a little weirdness during the transition zone between Trazodone and SJW. Your chemistry will have to adjust to the absence of Trazodone, and at the same time adjust to the effects of SJW. Wierdness for a few days should be expected. You could actually overlap them if you wanted to, just keep the doses small.
If you do take SJW, stick with a good brand. LI160 is the formula used in scientific studies. It can be found at many drug stores by the name Kira. Identical formulas are also available in the brands Movana and Nature's Way Perika. This doesn't mean other brands aren't good, it's just that you never know for sure what you're getting. With the three brands I mentioned, you are sure you're getting the same scientific pharmaceutical formula every time.
A common starting dose is one tab a day. Move up to two whenever. Then three. Though the usual dose is three tabs a day, keep in mind that in Europe where most clinical tests have been performed, doses as high as 9 tabs a day were used safely and effectively in even severe depression. Not just mild or moderate.
SJW can work just as good or better than any prescription. But like prescriptions, it may or may not work for you. It has the same statistical response rates as prescription, at about 70%.
I've heard of some people who love SJW. I've also heard people who said it didn't do anything. I suspect typical doses are too low. Clinical trials have shown that one tab of SJW is roughly the same as 10mg of a tricyclic antidepressant. Since tricyclic minimum doses are usually in the 50mg to 75mg range, that implies that an equivelent minimum SJW dose would be 5 to 7 tabs a day...not 3.
John
Posted by saskia on January 8, 2001, at 11:15:25
In reply to Re: St. John's Wort, posted by Dave on January 7, 2001, at 14:17:28
> Hi saskia,
>
> You're doctor is wrong. There are many published studies confirming St. Johns Wort to be a safe and effective antidepressant for mild to moderate depression with almost no side effects. While it's antidepressant action is not fully understood MAO inhibition is extremely weak in St. Johns Wort and not believed to account for much in it's action. Many people including myself and a few others on this board have succesfully combined it with antidepressants with no ill effects. SJW could be a great alternative for you. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks to really kick in and if you decide to try it only buy the brands that have standardized extracts. Movana is my favorite. It is standardized to 3-5% hyperforin which is believed to be the active ingredient not hypericin.
>
> Check out these two websites as well.
>
> www.hypericum.com and www.movana.com
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
> Also check out this web site: www.hypericum.comDave, thanks for the great information it definitely helps to hear positive statements.
Posted by saskia on January 8, 2001, at 11:21:13
In reply to Re: St. John's Wort, posted by JohnL on January 7, 2001, at 18:21:14
> > I want to try St. John's Wort instead of trazadone for depression and anxiety. My doctor says St. John's is similar to an MAO inhibitor and has more side effects then trazadone plus you have to be careful about various foods combined with St. John's. Not to undermine my doc. but does anyone else know this to be true. I can't think that even if it does have side effects it cannot be as bad as trazadone.
>
> The doctor is stating beliefs based on ancient research. It used to be assumed that SJW worked like an MAO inhibitor, and thus required food restrictions. More recent research has shown that SJW inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and GABA in approximately equal weightings. If there is any MAO activity at all, it is insignificant and is usually only found in the raw herb, not in the extracts.
>
> Another common myth about SJW is skin sensitivity. This usually only occurs with huge doses, and is mainly a small risk with only certain ethnic groups who have very fair skin.
>
> SJW does have side effects. They usually go away much faster than antidepressants. Some people get a little tired. Some people instead get a little fidgety or anxious. These are early side effects that disappear pretty quickly. Compared to Trazodone though, SJW will seem like candy.
>
> If you decide to try it, expect a little weirdness during the transition zone between Trazodone and SJW. Your chemistry will have to adjust to the absence of Trazodone, and at the same time adjust to the effects of SJW. Wierdness for a few days should be expected. You could actually overlap them if you wanted to, just keep the doses small.
>
> If you do take SJW, stick with a good brand. LI160 is the formula used in scientific studies. It can be found at many drug stores by the name Kira. Identical formulas are also available in the brands Movana and Nature's Way Perika. This doesn't mean other brands aren't good, it's just that you never know for sure what you're getting. With the three brands I mentioned, you are sure you're getting the same scientific pharmaceutical formula every time.
>
> A common starting dose is one tab a day. Move up to two whenever. Then three. Though the usual dose is three tabs a day, keep in mind that in Europe where most clinical tests have been performed, doses as high as 9 tabs a day were used safely and effectively in even severe depression. Not just mild or moderate.
>
> SJW can work just as good or better than any prescription. But like prescriptions, it may or may not work for you. It has the same statistical response rates as prescription, at about 70%.
>
> I've heard of some people who love SJW. I've also heard people who said it didn't do anything. I suspect typical doses are too low. Clinical trials have shown that one tab of SJW is roughly the same as 10mg of a tricyclic antidepressant. Since tricyclic minimum doses are usually in the 50mg to 75mg range, that implies that an equivelent minimum SJW dose would be 5 to 7 tabs a day...not 3.
> JohnJohn,
I am definitely trying SJW and thanks for explaining that there will be weirdness initially because if I hadn't known that I might have quit thinking something was wrong during the changeover from Trazadone. I'm crossing my fingers that this will work.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.