![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 18:25:35
In reply to DEA Bibliography, posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 18:13:35
You may not mean to but the usage of illegal harmful drugs supports the following domestic drug traffickers:
DOMESTIC TRAFFICKING GANGS
Colombia- and Mexicobased traffickers in the United States are focused primarily on the wholesale drug market. They are significantly less involved in drug trafficking at the street, or "retail" level. The same is largely true of the traffickers from the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, and Nigeria. This insulates them, to some degree, from detection by law enforcement.Throughout the United States, lowerlevel dealing in drugs is being increasingly handled by violent and highly organized criminal gangs. There are three major types of gangs involved in street sales of drugs: prison gangs, traditional street gangs, and outlaw motorcycle gangs.
Prison Gangs
Since prison gangs operate in a detached environment, the DEA is limited in its ability to target them. But the DEA will often target associates who assist in the drug trafficking process and are not currently incarcerated.Prison gangs are organized generally along racial lines. They were originally formed by prisoners to protect themselves from other inmates. For example, the Mexican Mafia was established in 1957 at the Deuel Vocational Center in Tracy, California, by Hispanic inmates to counter pressure from African-American inmates. Today, through an elaborate network of distributors and dealers, it controls part of the drug trade in Southern California.
The Black Guerilla Family had its origins in the black power movement of the 1960s. It was organized at California's San Quentin State Penitentiary in 1966. Today the Black Guerillas distribute heroin and cocaine to the California street gangs under its influence. Another San Quentin gang later became known as the Aryan Brotherhood and adopted an ideology of white supremacy. Currently, its primary interest is distributing drugs.
Two prison factions developed in the Illinois penal system: the People Nation and the Folks Nation. Two gangs under the rubric of the People Nation, the Vice Lords and the Latin Kings, are dedicated to the preservation of Latin heritage and distribute drugs in their respective neighborhoods. Prominent among the Folks Nation are the Black Gangster Disciples, a gang that has been a target of the DEA in recent years. Theories on what "Folks" is an acronym for vary. Some members interpret the name as "Follow and Obey all Laws of Kings," others call themselves "Followers of Lord King Satan."
Street Gangs
Many street gangs confine their drug trafficking activities to their own neighborhoods. However, several gangs have gone national. Such "supergangs" are hard to distinguish from major organized crime groups. For example, two supergangs, the Crips and the Bloods, have their origin in Los Angeles in the late 1960s. At first, their activities were limited to large urban areas. But these two gangs now have more than 1,000 affiliates in more than 100 cities. Many of the affiliates are "cultural" rather than "structural," meaning they take a gang's recognizable name but are not necessarily associated with other chapters. Almost half of these cities with Crips and Bloods associates are small to midsize, with populations of less than 100,000. Because drugs often yield much higher profits in small cities and in rural areas than they do in big cities, members of both gangs have moved to smaller cities and set up distribution networks that reach back to their counterparts in the large cities and sometimes to the major international trafficking groups. Street gangs frequently have ties to prison gangs. Leaders are often former prisoners and take their orders from fellow gang members still in prison.Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs
Outlaw motorcycle gangs emerged following World War II. At first, they focused on riding motorcycles and throwing wild parties, but they increasingly turned to violence. In 1947, a group of outlaw bikers attending a motorcycle rally destroyed the town of Hollister, California, when one of its members was arrested. The biker gangs gradually moved into criminal pursuits, often working closely with the traditional mafia. Today the four major biker gangs are the Hells Angels, the Outlaws, the Bandidos, and the Pagans. A significant source of income for most biker gangs is drug trafficking, especially the manufacture and distribution of methamphetamine.Gang Activities
Although there is considerable debate over what constitutes a gang, there are several characteristics that seem to be common to the criminal gangs mentioned above. Many of these modern gangs are highly organized, they exhibit a willingness to use violence to accomplish their objectives, and they rely heavily on drug trafficking for their major source of income.Gangs like the Gangster Disciples, the Latin Kings, and Hells Angels are far more organized than the term "gang" might suggest. Many gangs have a structured hierarchy, complete with presidents, vice presidents, and secretary treasurers. But they are not as dependent upon their leadership as traditional organized crime families. Quite often a gang will continue to function even after its leaders have been convicted and imprisoned. New members are carefully screened to determine whether they meet the personality traits needed for the violent, secretive world of gang life. Prospective Hells Angels often take polygraph tests and are required to commit a witnessed felony in order to prove their loyalty, thus making it extremely difficult for undercover law enforcement officers to infiltrate the organization.
The nature of their criminal enterprises forces them to create relationships with other criminal organizations, particularly those who distribute the illegal drugs. They frequently meet with other gangs to carve up markets, arrange for the sharing of drug shipments, pool money for buying large shipments of drugs, and negotiate disputes. Some of the larger street gangs have international connections with suppliers in Colombia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, and other countries. The secretive nature of their operations forces them to develop a tight "command and control" structure. The profits they make from the drug trade enable them to invest in highly sophisticated technology, such as encryption devices to conceal their communications and a variety of telecommunications equipment to keep them in constant contact with their suppliers and with each other.
Gangs also use weapons to protect their turf and their drug operations from one another. There was a time when gang members relied on switchblade knives and homemade zip guns. Today, the huge profits from drug trafficking have given gangs access to wellstocked arsenals of sophisticated arms, including semiautomatic military assault weapons, .50 caliber machine guns, and a variety of explosives. Along with the sophisticated weapons comes a willingness to use them. In fact, it is impossible to join or get ahead in many gangs without committing a certifiable crime, sometimes including homicide. La Nuestra Familia, a gang of MexicanAmerican convicts, even keeps their own "Ten Most Wanted List." One can become a "captain" or a "general" in the organization by murdering someone on the list.
Gangs who, in effect, take over towns and neighborhoods are often able to maintain their drug distribution networks by demonstrating their superior firepower and their commitment to use violence to achieve their ends. Gangs have been noted for using violence against witnesses, law enforcement officers, and prosecutors. A Hells Angels motto, for example, sums up that organization's cavalier attitude about violence: "Three people can keep a secret, if two are dead."
Many of the criminal gangs involved in drug trafficking have followed a similar pattern: what starts as a loosely organized outlet for school dropouts and social misfits becomes a tightly organized criminal enterprise. Among their many criminal activities are murderforhire, auto theft, extortion, prostitution, and insurance fraud.
But no activity is more profitable than drug trafficking. Because they have every incentive to spend most of their time and energies on the most profitable part of their business, modern street gangs have become, to a great extent, smaller versions of the large, international drug groups with whom they do business. The huge amounts of money that pour in from the drug trade corrupt the communities in which the gangs live. Ten-year olds have been known to make several hundred dollars a week just for being lookouts for crack cocaine houses. The enormous profits raise the stakes in the drug trade, leading to violent battles over turf. The profits also finance the purchase of sophisticated weaponry and communications technology, often overwhelming law enforcement agencies in smaller jurisdictions.
Posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 18:32:07
In reply to Domestic Trafficking, posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 18:25:35
Whether one thinks that illegal drugs should be legal or should not be legal, one needs to take the fact into consideration that he or she is supporting this type of activity indirectly when he or she uses illegal drugs:
OVERVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS
Background: For decades, the trafficking of drugs within the United States was principally controlled by traditional organized crime groups that lived and operated inside the country. According to the 1986 President's Commission on Law Enforcement, from the 1950s to the 1970s, La Cosa Nostra "controlled an estimated 95 percent of all the heroin entering New York City, as well as most of the heroin distributed throughout the United States."In a drug trafficking network that became known as the French Connection, New York City-based crime families purchased heroin from Corsican sources, who worked with French sailors operating from Marseilles, to transship the drug directly to the United States. Ultimately, the heroin was distributed throughout the United States by domestic organized crime families to street-level dealers working in low-income, minority communities. However, in 1972, the French Connection was effectively dismantled by French and U.S. drug agents, ending the domestic mafia's monopoly on heroin distribution in the United States.
The demise of the French Connection, coupled with the subsequent emergence of criminal syndicates based in Colombia, marked significant evolution in the international drug trade. These new traffickers introduced cocaine into the United States on a massive scale, launching unparalleled waves of drug crimes and violence. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the international crime syndicates continued to increase their wealth and dominance over the U.S. drug trade, overshadowing the domestic crime families.
Today, the traffic in illegal drugs, from manufacture to final street-level sale, is controlled by international organized crime syndicates from Colombia, Mexico, and other countries. From their headquarters overseas, foreign drug lords produce and distribute unprecedented volumes of cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin, and marijuana throughout the United States.
These traffickers model their operations after international terrorist groups. They maintain tight control of their workers through highly compartmentalized cell structures that separate production, shipment, distribution, money laundering, communications, security, and recruitment. Traffickers have at their disposal the most technologically advanced airplanes, boats, vehicles, radar, communications equipment, and weapons that money can buy. They have also established vast counterintelligence capabilities and transportation networks.
Today's international criminal organizations pose a greater challenge to law enforcement than any pervious criminal group in our history. While there are numerous characteristics that these international groups have in common with traditional organized crime -- their penchant for violence and their reliance on corruption and intimidation as tools of their business -- their sheer power, influence, and sophistication put them in a category by themselves. Whereas traditional mafia families would corrupt officers and judges, today's international drug organizations corrupt entire institutions of government.
The DEA continually demonstrates its ability and willingness to fight corruption and terrorism by international drug traffickers. For example, the DEA worked openly with the Colombian National Police (CNP) to capture Pablo Escobar, a leader of the infamous Medellin cartel, who was responsible for waging a campaign of terror and bribery. These efforts ultimately led to the death of Escobar during a shoot-out with the CNP.
Despite significant law enforcement successes in dismantling several major international trafficking organizations, international criminal groups continue to pose a significant threat to the welfare of the American people. The DEA, in cooperation with foreign, state, local, and federal counterparts, is taking aggressive action, both internationally and domestically, to combat these organizations and repair the damage they have inflicted on citizens and communities in the United States.
Posted by dennis on January 28, 2001, at 20:44:50
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana (DEA-med.myths.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 17:19:40
Well, if your trying to convince me that cannabis is harmful and should be illegal then you have failed. As I said before I personally believe cannabis is one of the most valuable medicinal drugs there is, and always has been for thousands even millions of years, and I believe that I as a human being living on this planet have rights, I have the right to be free and live my life however I so choose, no matter how harmful you think cannabis may be, you have no right to stop me from useing it, the government has no right to punish anyone for useing anything on this earth as long as there not hurting anybody else, I believe cannabis will be at least decriminalized in the future, and I look forward to that day. The netherlands is a example of a good drug policy, they recognize that the harmful effects of prohibition are many times greater than the effects of cannabis itself, they understand that they cannot make cannabis go away just by outlawing it and makeing harsh penalties for its use, and what are the negative results of the netherlands policy towards cannabis, there are no negative results. Drug use has not gone up, and law enforcement resources are not wasted, peoples personal lives are not harmed by harsh fines and prison time, you can talk about its harmful effects all you want, but lets face it, almost everything is harmful, I think the real issue is society is afraid of cannabis, and will look for anything, will go to great lengths to prove it is harmful enough to keep its illegal classification.
Posted by stjames on January 28, 2001, at 22:26:13
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Pat, maybe you missed my point, maybe not. I 've read these studies, in general I am a well read person on many subjects. The common thread of all the studies you mention is that they are gov. funded, therefor are biased. the gov is not going to fund a study by a researcher who might turn up positive results. The outcome has to fit
the gov stance so this is clearly not the genisis
of a true unbiased study with good methodology. garbage in, garbage out. To me, all of this proves nothing, as the studies are biased. Junk science.James
Posted by stjames on January 28, 2001, at 23:08:22
In reply to Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 17:54:36
> I am a person who was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes and other chemicals for 16 years. I saw ALL(yes ALL-10) of my friends die from alchohol, cigarette, and harmful drug abuse
james here.....
Am I know people who have led normal lives, with
no negative outcomes, using illicits.James
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:02:58
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
I have seen 3 pdocs in 16 years, the first I chose, the last 2 were assigned by HMO. All 3 have had no problems with my regular pot use. All
3 stated (for me) that the only negative problems they were conserned about was the legal issues.james
Posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by stjames on January 28, 2001, at 23:08:22
> > I am a person who was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes and other chemicals for 16 years. I saw ALL(yes ALL-10) of my friends die from alchohol, cigarette, and harmful drug abuse
>
> james here.....
>
> Am I know people who have led normal lives, with
> no negative outcomes, using illicits.
>
######> I lost both my Mom and Dad to heavy drug usage.
My Ex- husband is in the throes of meth addiction, he claims that it makes him feel better.His Meth addiction has progressed to Heroin abuse and needle usage
I'm a recovering alcoholic and in the last 6 years have also seen friends auffer grave consequences from drug abuse.
From personal experience, I know that a drug addict will go to any lenght to justify his/ her addiction.
FACT-- PEOPLE DIE FROM DRUG ABUSE.just my personal opinion, i do not want to offend anybody but at the same time i take this issue very seriously.
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:59:23
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
> FACT-- PEOPLE DIE FROM DRUG ABUSE.
james here.....Where did you get the idea that anyone is saying
that some people don't die of drug abuse ?j
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 2:33:57
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
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Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:23:39
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana is a Dangerous Drug
Any discussion of marijuana should begin with the fact that there have been numerous official reports and studies, every one of which has concluded that marijuana poses no great risk to society and should not be criminalized. These include: the National Academy of Sciences’ “Analysis of Marijuana Policy”(1982); the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (the Shafer Report) (1973); the Canadian Government’s Commission of Inquiry (Le Dain Report) (1970); the British Advisory Committee on Drug Dependency (Wooton Report) (1968); the La Guardia Report (1944); the Panama Canal Zone Military Investigations (1916-29); and Britain’s monumental Indian Hemp Drugs Commission (1893-4).
It is sometimes claimed that there is “new evidence” showing marijuana is more harmful than was thought in the sixties. In fact, the most recent studies have tended to confirm marijuana’s safety, refuting claims that it causes birth defects, brain damage, reduced testosterone, or increased drug abuse problems.
The current consensus is well stated in the 20th annual report of the California Research Advisory Panel (1990), which recommended that personal use and cultivation of marijuana be legalized: “An objective consideration of marijuana shows that it is responsible for less damage to society and the individual than are alcohol and cigarettes.”
References: The National Academy of Sciences report, “Marijuana and Health” (National Academy Press, 1982), remains the most useful overview of the health effects of marijuana, its major conclusions remaining largely unaffected by the last 10 years of research. Lovinger and Jones, The Marihuana Question (Dodd, Mead & Co., NY 1985), is the most exhaustive and fair-handed summary of the evidence against marijuana. Good, positive perspectives may be found in Lester Grinspoon’s Marihuana, the Forbidden Medicine (Yale Press, 1993) and Marihuana Reconsidered (Harvard U. Press 1971), which debunks many of the older anti-pot myths. See also Leo Hollister, “Health Aspects of Cannabis,” Pharmacological Reviews 38:1-20 (1986).
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:24:38
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana is Harmless
Just as most experts agree that occasional or moderate use of marijuana is innocuous, they also agree that excessive use can be harmful. Research shows that the two major risks of excessive marijuana use are: (1) respiratory disease due to smoking and (2) accidental injuries due to impairment.
Marijuana and Smoking:
A recent survey by the Kaiser Permanente Center found that daily marijuana-only smokers have a 19% higher rate of respiratory complaints than non-smokers.1 These findings were not unexpected, since it has long been known that, aside from its psychoactive ingredients, marijuana smoke contains virtually the same toxic gases and carcinogenic tars as tobacco. Human studies have found that pot smokers suffer similar kinds of respiratory damage as tobacco smokers, putting them at greater risk of bronchitis, sore throat, respiratory inflammation and infections.2Although there has not been enough epidemiological work to settle the matter definitively, it is widely suspected that marijuana smoking causes cancer. Studies have found apparently pre-cancerous cell changes in pot smokers.3 Some cancer specialists have reported a higher-than-expected incidence of throat, neck and tongue cancer in younger, marijuana-only smokers.4 A couple of cases have been fatal. While it has not been conclusively proven that marijuana smoking causes lung cancer, the evidence is highly suggestive. According to Dr. Donald Tashkin of UCLA, the leading expert on marijuana smoking:5
“Although more information is certainly needed, sufficient data have already been accumulated concerning the health effects of marijuana to warrant counseling by physicians against the smoking of marijuana as an important hazard to health.”
Fortunately, the hazards of marijuana smoking can be reduced by various strategies: (1) use of higher-potency cannabis, which can be smoked in smaller quantities, (2) use of waterpipes and other smoke reduction technologies,6 and (3) ingesting pot orally instead of smoking it.
Footnotes
1. Michael R. Polen et al. “Health Care Use by Frequent Marijuana Smokers Who Do Not Smoke Tobacco,” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 596-601 (June 1993).
2. Donald Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health?” Western Journal of Medicine 158 #6: 635-7 (June 1993).
3. D. Tashkin et al, “Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or Cocaine on the Lung,” in Research Findings on Smoking of Abused Substances, NIDA Research Monograph 99 (1990).
4. Paul Donald, “Advanced malignancy in the young marijuana smoker,” Adv Exp Med Biol 288:33-56 (1991); FM Taylor, “Marijuana as a potential respiratory tract carcinogen,” South Med Journal 81:1213-6 (1988).
5. D. Tashkin, “Is Frequent Marijuana Smoking Hazardous To Health,?” op. cit.
6. Nicholas Cozzi, “Effects of Water Filtration on Marijuana Smoke: A Literature Review,” MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) newsletter, Vol. IV #2 (1993) (Reprints available from MAPS and Cal. NORML).
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:26:04
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: One Joint Equals One Pack (or 16, or maybe just 4) Cigarettes
Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a “mild but significant” increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.1 What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes.
A more widely accepted estimate is that marijuana smokers consume four times as much carcinogenic tar as cigarettes smokers per weight smoked.2 This does not necessarily mean that one joint equals four cigarettes, since joints usually weigh less. In fact, the average joint has been estimated to contain 0.4 grams of pot, a bit less than one-half the weight of a cigarette, making one joint equal to two cigarettes (actually, joint sizes range from cigar-sized spliffs smoked by Rastas, to very fine sinsemilla joints weighing as little as 0.2 grams). It should be noted that there is no exact equivalency between tobacco and marijuana smoking, because they affect different parts of the respiratory tract differently: whereas tobacco tends to penetrate to the smaller, peripheral passageways of the lungs, pot tends to concentrate on the larger, central passageways.3 One consequence of this is that pot, unlike tobacco, does not appear to cause emphysema.
Footnotes
1. D. Tashkin, “Respiratory Status of 74 Habitual Marijuana Smokers,” Chest 78 #5: 699-706 (Nov. 1980).
2. T-C. Wu, D. Tashkin, B. Djahed and J.E. Rose, “Pulmonary hazards of smoking marijuana as compared with tobacco,” New England Journal of Medicine 318: 347-51 (1988).
3. Donald Tashkin et al, “Effects of Habitual Use of Marijuana and/or Cocaine on the Lung,” loc.cit.
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:28:50
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana Causes Sterility and Lowers Testosterone
Government experts also concede that pot has no permanent effect on the male or female reproductive systems.1 A few studies have suggested that heavy marijuana use may have a reversible, suppressive effect on male testicular function.2 A recent study by Dr. Robert Block has refuted earlier research suggesting that pot lowers testosterone or other sex hormones in men or women.3 In contrast, heavy alcohol drinking is known to lower testosterone levels and cause impotence. A couple of lab studies indicated that very heavy marijuana smoking might lower sperm counts. However, surveys of chronic smokers have turned up no indication of infertility or other abnormalities.
Less is known about the effects of cannabis on human females. Some animal studies suggest that pot might temporarily lower fertility or increase the risk of fetal loss, but this evidence is of dubious relevance to humans.4 One human study suggested that pot may mildly disrupt ovulation. It is possible that adolescents are peculiarly vulnerable to hormonal disruptions from pot. However, not a single case of impaired fertility has ever been observed in humans of either sex.
Footnotes
1. Dr. Christine Hartel, loc. cit.
2. NAS Report, pp. 94-9.
3. Dr. Robert Block in Drug and Alcohol Dependence 28: 121-8 (1991).
4. NAS Report, p. 97-8.
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:30:56
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
Myth: Marijuana Leads to Harder Drugs
There is no scientific evidence for the theory that marijuana is a “gateway” drug. The cannabis-using cultures in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin America show no propensity for other drugs. The gateway theory took hold in the sixties, when marijuana became the leading new recreational drug. It was refuted by events in the eighties, when cocaine abuse exploded at the same time marijuana use declined.
As we have seen, there is evidence that cannabis may substitute for alcohol and other “hard” drugs. A recent survey by Dr. Patricia Morgan of the University of California at Berekeley found that a significant number of pot smokers and dealers switched to methamphetamine “ice” when Hawaii’s marijuana eradication program created a shortage of pot.1 Dr. Morgan noted a similar phenomenon in California, where cocaine use soared in the wake of the CAMP helicopter eradication campaign.
The one way in which marijuana does lead to other drugs is through its illegality: persons who deal in marijuana are likely to deal in other illicit drugs as well.
Footnote
1. “Survey: Hawaii war on pot pushed users to ‘ice,’“ Honolulu Advertiser, April 1, 1994 p. 1.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 29, 2001, at 8:31:31
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
Yup, People die from drug abuse. But not from marajuana "abuse". natg - you say your husband uses Meth and Heroin... both are addictive dangerous drugs. But neither are marajuana are they??
Nope!!!
I habve been smoking weed for 10+ years, and I am not addicted to any other drug. I have never used heroin or crack, and lead a nice enough life thanks.
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 29, 2001, at 8:33:53
In reply to Myth: Marijuana Leads to Harder Drugs, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 3:30:56
Well saqid on all those points james.
I too ahve spoken to a number of docs and pdocs regarding marajuana use, and all say that it is fine. One expressed he would ahve concern if I were to be smoking, say, 2 ounces a week, but I don't!!
I like the way in a discussion on the use of marajuana people are jumping in with "well, xxx is dying of using meth". Fine, meth is a highly dangerous drung, but it aint marajuana.
If I were to start a thread on the dirnking of coffee and is it safe, would people jump in saying "But xxx died from drinking whisky"?? I doubt it!
Hmmmph!
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 10:15:37
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
To Whom It May Concern,
I guess some of us can agree to disagree on the subject but there is overwhelming proof in my posts. As you go on living your life your experiences will tell how you fare and I hope you fare well but if you must use harmful chemicals I fear for you. My experiences are reality and backed up by a mountain of evidence and I believe the researchers are all ethical and objective and not biased. As I mentioned before a person will justify his or her use of something that is harmful and protect it because he or she is addicted or just has to have it and it is called denial. I, too, was in denial for years! :)Denial is a smoke screen that hides the truth from the person who is in it. It is natural and often very strong-it is a blinder. Often he or she is afraid to quit because he or she does not know what else to do or thinks life will not be as good without it-well, I have good news-it will be 100% better. :) I have also seen the horrors of harmful drug abuse first hand. Been there, done that and all I can say is no thank you to that crap. When you have to have a harmful substance you are not free and it is controlling you. Would you eat rat poison if you got high on it and say it was a good buzz? Well, you are doing the same thing with the harmful drugs but it kills slower. I have posted educational things that are highly substantiated. There are many more reports that are not govt. funded but funded through charitable foundations. A few of my studies here are not govt. but the govt. is doing a good job, I must say. I see nothing wrong with the govt.and see that are working their tails off to save people. Look at the bibliography and see the hard facts in all of the research done-it does not lie and is not biased. If just one person who uses pot or other harmful substances will realize it is time to visit their local Narcotics Anonymous or AA or another chemical dependency treatment program or CD counselor it would be the best thing he or she has done for him/herself and the start of a much much much much improved life-guaranteed. You still will have problems, though, but you will know better how to handle them. My life has improved a whole lot. I got a good education and have direction in life now. These posts are meant to help and those who disbelieve or criticize may need to seek treatment one day for their addictions-and I wish them well. None of what I have posted is a myth because there is overwhelming evidence of all I assert. Feel free to complain all you want-it won't change your life or the facts. To those who justify use of these harmful drugs and promote it through your posts here, you ought to think twice what you are doing because if you strive to be a good example to others you will not promote these harmful illegal drugs. As for the psychiatrist who said pot was okay-really can't you try and think for yourself and face the facts. The doctor did not tell you to use it and did not tell you of it's harmfulness either. Just agreed with you and maybe thought later-why did I do that? Treatment will help, I assure you, I have had it and enjoyed it. The past 14 years without the "shit" have been 100% better. Best wishes to all for a better quality life. Care about yourself, care about others, live and learn. I care and am concerned about your welfare. Peace and love to you. :-) Sincerely, Pat
Posted by judy1 on January 29, 2001, at 14:17:58
In reply to For me my pdoc(s) say pot is OK, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:02:58
Didn't read the thread but your message stood out- actually my pdoc told me he smokes pot. Take care, judy
Posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 16:31:17
In reply to Reply and there are no myths posted by ME...:-), posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 10:15:37
As for the psychiatrist who said pot was okay-really can't you try and think for yourself and face the facts.
James here....
I am facing facts. The psychotheripist also did not have a problems with my pot use. As they know me well and are professionals I agree with their advise.
James
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 17:41:50
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by Natg on January 29, 2001, at 0:42:21
> > > I am a person who was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes and other chemicals for 16 years. I saw ALL(yes ALL-10) of my friends die from alchohol, cigarette, and harmful drug abuse
> >
> > james here.....
> >
> > Am I know people who have led normal lives, with
> > no negative outcomes, using illicits.
> >
> ######
>
> > I lost both my Mom and Dad to heavy drug usage.
> My Ex- husband is in the throes of meth addiction, he claims that it makes him feel better.His Meth addiction has progressed to Heroin abuse and needle usage
> I'm a recovering alcoholic and in the last 6 years have also seen friends auffer grave consequences from drug abuse.
> From personal experience, I know that a drug addict will go to any lenght to justify his/ her addiction.
> FACT-- PEOPLE DIE FROM DRUG ABUSE.
>
> just my personal opinion, i do not want to offend anybody but at the same time i take this issue very seriously.Natg,
I know you take it seriously and so do I. I'm sorry you lost your your parents and your husband to it. I lost 2 husbands to the use of heavy smoking and half of it was pot. It is a life and death thing. We know denial inside out don't we? They say the last person to know they have a drug problem is the user. I'm glad you came to your senses in time like I did. It's hard to tell people about this and CD Counselor's have a very hard job. It's hard for those using still, too, and they are often hypersensitve to any comments regarding their illegal and harmful drug of choice as you can see by the protecting of their "fix." But it doesn't fix as we well know. Feel free to email me if you want, Nat.
Posted by vince on February 1, 2001, at 0:46:01
In reply to Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.), posted by PatJ. on January 28, 2001, at 16:21:26
> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
>
> Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
> ...
>
>
> MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY
>
> It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.
>
> In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
>
> In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
>
> For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:
>
> www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
> www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
> http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundation’s website
> http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazine’s "Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?" with commentary
> http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana use’s effect on the brain to that of "hard" drugs, with commentary
> www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
> http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.
>
I suffered my first episode of depression in my early twenties after I had been using marijuana for only two months. My quality of life has never been equal to what I had prior to my first experience with major depression. I have never at any time since fully recovered and I continue to go into long periods of very severe periods of illness. I know that those here who would argue against the strictest degree of scientific evidence in defence of pot, are not going to accept my single case of antidotal evidence that pot had something to do with my depression, but I am personally convinced that it changed me, in a very short time from a very happy person who was able to enjoy life to its fullest extent to a person who was only able to struggle from one day to the next in an effort to withstand a degree of suffering that I couldn't even have imagined before.Vince
Posted by orthius on February 3, 2001, at 1:54:08
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by stjames on January 29, 2001, at 0:59:23
well i am not so much against pot use but as i have seen it can hinder a person from finding stability who already has problems with their mental health i have smoked alot in the past myself and at that time i could not see the real effects that it had on me externally now i can talk to someone that smokes pot and be able to tell it the tell tale signs are there to sit back and completely deny that it has no effects on your mental health is way out in left field somewhere
Posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 16:55:47
In reply to Re: Dangers of Marijuana (how it effects mental ill.) » PatJ., posted by vince on February 1, 2001, at 0:46:01
> > http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
> >
> > Health_Concerns: WHAT ARE THE MEDICAL DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE?
> > ...
> >
> >
> > MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY
> >
> > It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.
> >
> > In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
> >
> > In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
> >
> > For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:
> >
> > www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
> > www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
> > http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundation?s website
> > http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazine?s "Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?" with commentary
> > http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana use?s effect on the brain to that of "hard" drugs, with commentary
> > www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
> > http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.
> >
>
>
> I suffered my first episode of depression in my early twenties after I had been using marijuana for only two months. My quality of life has never been equal to what I had prior to my first experience with major depression. I have never at any time since fully recovered and I continue to go into long periods of very severe periods of illness. I know that those here who would argue against the strictest degree of scientific evidence in defence of pot, are not going to accept my single case of antidotal evidence that pot had something to do with my depression, but I am personally convinced that it changed me, in a very short time from a very happy person who was able to enjoy life to its fullest extent to a person who was only able to struggle from one day to the next in an effort to withstand a degree of suffering that I couldn't even have imagined before.
>
> VinceHi Vince,
I totally believe you and think it's sad that it happened that way to you. I've experienced symptoms from it and amphetamine use, too. They were different symptoms appearing at different times after using these drugs. Have you been able to get any help for the depression? Has anything worked? I have bad depression, too. One day I'm okay the next day I am really down. I have to make myself do the things I don't want to do. Take care, Pat
Posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 17:02:11
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by orthius on February 3, 2001, at 1:54:08
> well i am not so much against pot use but as i have seen it can hinder a person from finding stability who already has problems with their mental health i have smoked alot in the past myself and at that time i could not see the real effects that it had on me externally now i can talk to someone that smokes pot and be able to tell it the tell tale signs are there to sit back and completely deny that it has no effects on your mental health is way out in left field somewhere
Dear Orthius,
I felt as you did too at one time, that it was harmless. Now, like you, many years later I know better. There is tons of research evidence from all over the world and you are right-you can observe for yourself by looking at someone using it. I also believe it causes severe paranoia.
Posted by orthius on February 7, 2001, at 3:46:48
In reply to Re: Personal Note on Harmful Chemical Use, posted by PatJ. on February 4, 2001, at 17:02:11
Patj
Like i said i can se the effects now but i dont throw stones at people eighter what they do is their choice i would be living in a glass house if i did so and no one specially someone who is using it can be swayed away from it till they are ready to do it for themselves but looking at alot of these posts i see alot of people that cant seem to figure out why their meds are not working while in theor leisure time they are getting drunk and smoking dope why waste the money on the medication if one is not truely interested in getting better cause if they were they would be giving their brains the chance to reset its normal chemistry which i believe can not be done while using illegal substances since u partake of these substances in order to get high now isnt that alterating brain chemistry
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