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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by katrina on February 23, 2001, at 14:30:49
I have been on lots of AD's with little or no response.
I have had the most amazing effect from 2.5mg-5mgs of zyprexa where no other drug had helped. My head cleared, I felt alive and comfortable.
I think I have had some mania and rapid cycling between depression and major depression...the worst is feeling completely disconnected from everything, anhedonia, no energy & suicidal thoughts. I am 31 and remember these feelings since I was atleast 20 or so. I have missed out on a lot. Anyway, it has been 5 days and I am afraid it will poop-out. I think I am in better class of meds for me, but any thoughts would be heard. I am going to see a good psychopharm soon.
Oh, I am on 50 mgs of zoloft, 5-10 mgs. of dexedrine (mania can look like ADD??) and the zyprexa. Zyprexa is what made the full recovery; zoloft alone was making me fell like hell.
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 15:04:38
In reply to Best success on Zyprexa=Will it last??, posted by katrina on February 23, 2001, at 14:30:49
Dear Katrina,
You and I are in the same boat. I started taking Zyprexa about a week ago and got some nice antidepressant effects early. I am also nervous about it not continuing to work, as this has been my history.
Why did you increase your Zyprexa from 2.5mg to 5.0mg?
How did you feel at 2.5mg?If Zyprexa does poop-out, you might want to consider Risperdal. I have heard of people remaining well on it for a long time.
Good luck. I'll be praying for us both.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by ChrisK on February 24, 2001, at 6:32:59
In reply to Best success on Zyprexa=Will it last??, posted by katrina on February 23, 2001, at 14:30:49
The good news about Zyprexa for me was that it did last. I still take it two years later and I still notice if I miss a couple of doses. I reacted initially within a week when I started at 5 mg. Since then I have gone to 7.5mg. I still had problems with anhedonia and tried all of the activating meds, Adderall, Ritalin, Provigil, Wellbutrin - all with limited success. Recently I have found Mirapex and it has almost eliminated my anhedonia. I have feelings again. Keep taking the Zyprexa and I hope it will continue to work for you.
Chris
> I have been on lots of AD's with little or no response.
> I have had the most amazing effect from 2.5mg-5mgs of zyprexa where no other drug had helped. My head cleared, I felt alive and comfortable.
> I think I have had some mania and rapid cycling between depression and major depression...the worst is feeling completely disconnected from everything, anhedonia, no energy & suicidal thoughts. I am 31 and remember these feelings since I was atleast 20 or so. I have missed out on a lot. Anyway, it has been 5 days and I am afraid it will poop-out. I think I am in better class of meds for me, but any thoughts would be heard. I am going to see a good psychopharm soon.
> Oh, I am on 50 mgs of zoloft, 5-10 mgs. of dexedrine (mania can look like ADD??) and the zyprexa. Zyprexa is what made the full recovery; zoloft alone was making me fell like hell.
Posted by katrina on February 26, 2001, at 16:05:58
In reply to Re: Best success on Zyprexa=Will it last??, posted by SLS on February 23, 2001, at 15:04:38
> Dear Katrina,
>
> You and I are in the same boat. I started taking Zyprexa about a week ago and got some nice antidepressant effects early. I am also nervous about it not continuing to work, as this has been my history.
>
> Why did you increase your Zyprexa from 2.5mg to 5.0mg?
> How did you feel at 2.5mg?
>
> If Zyprexa does poop-out, you might want to consider Risperdal. I have heard of people remaining well on it for a long time.
>
> Good luck. I'll be praying for us both.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Scott
I thought increasing was the way to go but I have read that the low doses were best. Any thought? I was thinking on doing a trial of a different AP risperdal...but zyprexa is still ok...I just had such a great response right away where all AD's had mostly failed. That first 4 days I felt like I was freer, alert, more real energy, confident yet realistic of my "issues" etc, and alive...Do ya know what I mean? It is still there somewhat... Oh I even skied better-weird huh...Only gained 2lbs so far
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2001, at 7:11:21
In reply to Scott, posted by katrina on February 26, 2001, at 16:05:58
> > You and I are in the same boat. I started taking Zyprexa about a week
ago and got some nice antidepressant effects early. I am also nervous
about it not continuing to work, as this has been my history. > > > >
Why did you increase your Zyprexa from 2.5mg to 5.0mg? > > How did you
feel at 2.5mg?> > If Zyprexa does poop-out, you might want to consider Risperdal. I
have heard of people remaining well on it for a long time.I thought increasing was the way to go but I have read that the low doses
were best. Any thought? I was thinking on doing a trial of a different
AP risperdal...but zyprexa is still ok...I just had such a great response
right away where all AD's had mostly failed. That first 4 days I felt
like I was freer, alert, more real energy, confident yet realistic of my
"issues" etc, and alive...Do ya know what I mean? It is still there
somewhat... Oh I even skied better-weird huh...Only gained 2lbs so farAt this time, I do not feel that the neuroleptic antipsychotic drugs
Zyprexa and Risperdal have therapeutic windows. I do not believe that they
lose their positive effects for treating depression at higher dosages. It
just seems that you can get away with smaller dosages than what is usually
prescribed for psychosis and schizoid symtoms. At some point there is an
optimum dosage beyond which one receives no further benefit but with an
increase in side effects. I get more from 5.0mg of Zyprexa than with
0.25mg. I got more from 2.0mg of Risperdal than with 1.0mg. I had to
discontinue Risperdal because of persistant cognitive side effects.
Unfortunately, neither of these drugs seem to have unlocked the door to my
dark room.The neuroleptic that does seem to have a therapeutic window of sorts when
used for depression is amisulpride. Some people report doing better at
25mg or 50mg that they do at 100mg and higher.With both Zyprexa and Risperdal, it can take a month or two before a solid
improvement is achieved.I hope I was able to answer your question.
- Scott
Posted by katrina on February 27, 2001, at 8:36:21
In reply to Re: Scott, posted by SLS on February 27, 2001, at 7:11:21
What about adding mirapex? Heard some interesting stuff on that and/or adrafanil...
PS. I am on 50 mgs of zoloft, too. What is your input on weight gain with zyprexa and risperdal? I am not a big weight gainer, but I notice a couple extra pounds with zyprexa after 9 days.
Posted by SLS on February 27, 2001, at 18:49:22
In reply to Could one add Mirapex, too??, posted by katrina on February 27, 2001, at 8:36:21
Dear Katrina,
> What about adding mirapex? Heard some interesting stuff on that and/or adrafanil...> PS. I am on 50 mgs of zoloft, too. What is your input on weight gain with zyprexa and risperdal? I am not a big weight gainer, but I notice a couple extra pounds with zyprexa after 9 days.
I think adding Mirapex (pramipexole) is a very reasonable choice. It is the type of drug that probably works only in conjunction with other drugs. I have seen more that one person here add it to an ongoing trial of an antidepressant plus Risperdal and obtain amazing results. However, I would give either Zyprexa or Risperdal at least a month to evaluate. I have noticed that with both of these drugs, there can be an almost immediate antidepressant effect, followed by a period with little or no improvement. Then, after a three to five week latency, the "real" response begins and is persistent.
As to the question which of the two drugs, Risperdal or Zyprexa, is best for you, there is only one way to find out. Since you are already on Zyprexa and have experienced that initial "blip" antidepressant response, it probably makes sense to continue with it. Zyprexa is usually associated with weight gain. It is hard to estimate how much any one individual will gain. Risperdal can produce weight gain also, but generally not to the same degree as Zyprexa. If weight gain does not become an issue, I would say to continue on Zyprexa to see how much you can "squeeze" out of it. Again, I have not seen with either of these two drugs a therapeutic "window" for which increasing the dosage beyond a certain point will cause a loss of effect.
50mg of Zoloft is a low dosage. You may consider asking your doctor if raising the dosage is indicated.
Do you think Zoloft actually made your depression worse, or is it that it did not help when used by itself?
How did you come by your current medications? Were they prescribed by a doctor?
Someone here has had great success with a combination of amisulpride and adrafinil. It seems that quite a few people have responded to well to amisulpride, often used in combination with some other drug. Amisulpride is a drug that is somewhat similar to Zyprexa and Risperdal. However, it does seem to have a therapeutic window when used to treat depression. The effective dosage range seems to lie between 25mg to 100mg. Some people respond well at 50mg, but when the dosage is increased to 100mg, they lose the antidepressant effect. Of course, neither amisulpride nor adrafinil is marketed in the U.S. They can be procured from overseas sources legally. You can refer back to some of the recent archived posts to find several threads regarding this.
I wish I could be more helpful.
- Scott
Posted by katrina on February 27, 2001, at 19:02:04
In reply to Re: Could one add Mirapex, too?? » katrina, posted by SLS on February 27, 2001, at 18:49:22
Any input is great...I have seen many docs, but I made the decision to try zyprexa-got it from farmaciacerati -
hmmm...zoloft...I have been a partial responder to SSRI's (monotherapy), and yes, I started therapy 2xs per week. I'm adult child of alcoholic and recovering myself (4 years). Lotsa trauma, ya know
That is exciting if what you think does happen with 30 days or so of the AP zyprexa. I am just watching what I eat...I ordered risperdal, too. I will see a psychopharm in Denver as I live 3 hours away
thanks for the support
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