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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 15:45:59
How many of you have sat across from some well-intentioned, well-paid professionals, and discovered you know more about the specific nuances of the subject than this person does? I have recently gone through 5 psychiatrists who seem to know little or nothing about the relationship of migraines to depression, and migraine medications available, the availability and advisibility of treating low-energy depressives with stimulants like Ritalin or something similar, and three of whom had not even heard of Effexor. Armed with information I had received from a doctor I know to be well-informed in another city, as well as feedback information from this forum and other sources, I basically insisted upon what I wanted with these doctors.
The split in the field between psycho-therapy and "here, take this pill and let's see what happens", is a profound one. Suffers of this disease are perforce obliged to steer a course between this Schylla and Charibdys, often ending up on the rocks of someone's else's "expertise".
I haven't given up seeking along these paths obviously, but the field seems stuffed with well-intentioned poseurs. There is no excuse for not doing your homework and being up on the latest treatments if you are going to call yourself a mental health specialist.
Posted by sl on May 10, 2001, at 20:04:23
In reply to So-called expert expertise, posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 15:45:59
Personally, I just do all MY homework and tell my Dr what to do. I have a wonderful Dr with a wonderful RN and between the three of us we can usually get it all figured out. ;)
BUT if I couldn't do that or if my Dr didn't have the support from her nurse...it'd get messy fast. I dealt with that angle for YEARS and it was not cool at all. I'd really say I do better with an Internist who does the research and listens to me than a psychiatrist who didn't do either one.
Too bad I didn't get MY Dr this last visit, I got one of her residents....I might not be having these problems. :/
Effexor is its own Schylla and Charibdys so far, for me at least. :/sl
PS Tell me about treating low-energy depressives with Ritalin....? (I am one and I'm looking for new ideas!)
> How many of you have sat across from some well-intentioned, well-paid professionals, and discovered you know more about the specific nuances of the subject than this person does? I have recently gone through 5 psychiatrists who seem to know little or nothing about the relationship of migraines to depression, and migraine medications available, the availability and advisibility of treating low-energy depressives with stimulants like Ritalin or something similar, and three of whom had not even heard of Effexor. Armed with information I had received from a doctor I know to be well-informed in another city, as well as feedback information from this forum and other sources, I basically insisted upon what I wanted with these doctors.
>
> The split in the field between psycho-therapy and "here, take this pill and let's see what happens", is a profound one. Suffers of this disease are perforce obliged to steer a course between this Schylla and Charibdys, often ending up on the rocks of someone's else's "expertise".
>
> I haven't given up seeking along these paths obviously, but the field seems stuffed with well-intentioned poseurs. There is no excuse for not doing your homework and being up on the latest treatments if you are going to call yourself a mental health specialist.
Posted by Fenka on May 10, 2001, at 20:22:01
In reply to So-called expert expertise, posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 15:45:59
I couldn't have said it better. I think it is worse in the psychiatric field than in the regular medical field. Patients seeking mental health often have a harder time articulating their symptoms. It is easier to say "My toe hurts" than to explain the numbness or agitation, whichever it should be.
A bone is a bone, but a brain is so much more. There can also be hormone factors and other illnesses.Some psy are so into their "tests" that they fail to see the entire person.
I have been very disappointed with the psychiatrists that I have seen. They seem more angry than I do. IMHO
Does anyone else feel that psychiatry has more ego attached to it than other medical fields?
Posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: So-called expert expertise, posted by Fenka on May 10, 2001, at 20:22:01
> I couldn't have said it better. I think it is worse in the psychiatric field than in the regular medical field. Patients seeking mental health often have a harder time articulating their symptoms. It is easier to say "My toe hurts" than to explain the numbness or agitation, whichever it should be.
> A bone is a bone, but a brain is so much more. There can also be hormone factors and other illnesses.Some psy are so into their "tests" that they fail to see the entire person.
> I have been very disappointed with the psychiatrists that I have seen. They seem more angry than I do. IMHO
> Does anyone else feel that psychiatry has more ego attached to it than other medical fields?
Some study I saw indicates this field is high risk for depression. At least they are getting paid to be depressed. Kidding.My situation is this: psychiatry is covered by Health Care but I am finding nothing but ill-informed pill-pushers in my quest. Psychologists are not covered and I don't have a private plan. $100 an hour, after taxes, just puts it out of reach. So much for the prescribed dual-approach to this disease.
I heard from a friend that her husband had an incredible change in his condition after being prescribed amphetymine-based stimuants. I have been flat as a board for 2 years now and was basically desperate to get some sort of energy happening as a basis for change. Amphetymines are not available as prescrips in Canada I take it, and the nearest thing I could find is Ritalin. I got an immediate boost but am starting to find the effect fading a bit, a week later. It's just a major ordeal to go shopping, I can't believe I have sunk to this abject state, but there it is, staring me in the face each morning.
THe psychiatrist knew nothing about ritalin really, other than it was used on children. On the strength of my own knowledge on the subject, and determination I guess, he prescribed it, without even suggesting close monitoring and follow-up. I simply find this unethical.
Posted by Fenka on May 11, 2001, at 0:33:25
In reply to Re: So-called expert expertise, posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 21:42:25
I've tried the stimulant approach, even Ritilan. Problem is that.... if you are AD resistant, I am... it just poops out to fast. Looking back I think I was better before I started down that road. It is just the UP / DOWN / UP /DOWN
I find so many different reactions on this site, and at one time I too, thought ,"So this is what normal feels like." I was on Prozac and Ritilan. But even doing drug holidays, I just couldn't keep the level right. Good luck to you, but I never found psychiatrists very helpful . They were changing scripts every week until I was dizzy. My general doc is more knowledgeable.
Posted by JasonL on May 11, 2001, at 8:04:20
In reply to So-called expert expertise, posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 15:45:59
I certainly understand your frustration with the doctors.
Putting blame aside, I can share with you something that has reversed my depression in a matter of 6 weeks. I had suffered severe, suicidal depression for years. I was hospitalized at one of the finest mental institutions in the country this fall for three months.
All I got were the same answers. "More therapy." "Treatment Resistant." "Borderline Personality Disorder." I paid these people 60,000.00 and I did not get better. They even chastized me for wanting to do research on medication at the library. They said I was in denial.
I was in pain! And the doctors were helpless.
So I moved on. I had to. Anyway, I came across a book called "THe Metabolic Typing Diet." The book and the ideas in the book on human health have given me my life back. After 10 years of depression, 5 years of extreme depression, I can sit here today and say I am happy to be alive, I am no longer depressed. I actually feel good!
And I am not on medication. (None of the twenty or so that I tried worked.) The ideas behind metabolic typing are so simple you wonder why your doctor never told you about them...
In truth, most doctors know a lot about alopathic medicine, but know little about the true natural abilty of the body to heal and right itself on its own.
You can email me at jkl@aol.com and I can tell you more. All I can say is that you don't have to live with migranes...you weren't born with migranes right? So your body does know how to make itself run smoothly...we just need to get it started on the right path back to health.
Best Wishes
Jason Lohr
Posted by Ann NY on May 11, 2001, at 9:51:43
In reply to Re: So-called expert expertise, posted by sl on May 10, 2001, at 20:04:23
Hi,
I am currently on Effexor, which takes 3-4 weeks to kick in. My psychiatris gave me ritalin to help with the lack of focus/concentration often seen in depressed patients. She also said ritalin is known to have mild antidepressant effects.
I was on ritalin and effexor, until I got to the proper dosage of effexor, so I took ritalin for 5 months. I loved the stuff, it was a great help.PS. Unfortunately most people - including MD's- don't bother to think about, let alone investigate the relation of their field to work to others. I too try to do some home work before I see an MD.
Posted by kazoo on May 11, 2001, at 10:50:44
In reply to Re: So-called expert expertise, posted by Outremont on May 10, 2001, at 21:42:25
Dear Outremont:
You're in a terrible bind: not only is the medication you need outlawed in Canada, but the doctors you have to contend with are too stupid to know any better, and too ignorant to know what to do with it even if they did have it!
(If you want to find out why there's such fear-and-loathing with amphetamines, go here: http://www.geocities.com/zoots90210/index.htm
Remember that the article is dated 1972 and though the author's opinions are jaded and outdated, the facts remain the same.)But bear in mind that you're not alone. Even in a country (the U.S.A.) where stimulants are used sparingly, finding the right doctor who's dynamic enough to use them is just as difficult here as it is where you are. Case in point: in January 2000, I was kicked out of a clinic because the psychiatrist left, and I was assigned a Physician's Assistant who, by virtue of her limited knowledge and prescribing power, changed the drug protocol I was on for years to something that she was able to do. For me to get Ritalin, which augmented the PROZAC, she had to get a non-departmental shrink, and that was just too much for this pinhead to do. She didn't want to "bother" him, so she gave me a "like-it-or-lump-it" proposition. I think you can figure out what I did.
Since that time, I've been trying to get help, but I, too, am limited by inadequate insurance which just isn't sufficient enough to keep doctors in their Cadillac "Eldorados," so I had to resort to the kindness of friends and family for medication; however, I realize that this isn't going to last forever, so when I say that you're in a bind, I, too, am in a bind, also.
What I suggest you do is to write to your Minister of Health and very politely explain the situation to them. If you don't get the results you want the first time around, don't give up! Keep writing and calling. Someone will listen. After all, these government people are there only because you put them there, so make them work!
Good luck, and stay in touch.
Kazoo
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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