![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Thrud on June 4, 2001, at 1:11:52
Hi Sal.
I've been looking at Trazodone for either augmentation or monotherapy since I am so prone to sexual dysfunction with ADs. Apparently it is pretty good for sleep as well, but, is that just from sedation or is it a genuine REM suppressor? All ADs give me continuous, vivid dreams (that suck!) and they always manage to "break through" sedation, no matter how strong. However, REM suppressing diazepams seem to work okay in that respect. Do you have personal experience with Trazodone that you could share?
Thanks.Thrud
Posted by Elizabeth on June 4, 2001, at 17:02:55
In reply to Trazodone-SalArmy4me, posted by Thrud on June 4, 2001, at 1:11:52
> I've been looking at Trazodone for either augmentation or monotherapy since I am so prone to sexual dysfunction with ADs. Apparently it is pretty good for sleep as well, but, is that just from sedation or is it a genuine REM suppressor?
It is -- that is, it decreases the percentage of sleep that includes REMs. But then again, so do SSRIs. Trazodone has been known to cause nightmares as a side effect.
> All ADs give me continuous, vivid dreams (that suck!) and they always manage to "break through" sedation, no matter how strong.
Have you tried MAOIs or TCAs?
-elizabeth
Posted by Thrud on June 4, 2001, at 18:40:46
In reply to Re: Trazodone-SalArmy4me, posted by Elizabeth on June 4, 2001, at 17:02:55
> It is -- that is, it decreases the percentage of sleep that includes REMs. But then again, so do SSRIs. Trazodone has been known to cause nightmares as a side effect.great! :(
>
> Have you tried MAOIs or TCAs?
>
Yes to TCAs. I found them just as bad, if not worse than SSRIs for vivid dreams. No to MAOIs...I refuse to give up alcohol!
In some ways I seem to have quite an atypical response to ADs. Dang.Thrud
Posted by Elizabeth on June 4, 2001, at 23:28:09
In reply to Re: Trazodone-Elizabeth, posted by Thrud on June 4, 2001, at 18:40:46
> > Trazodone has been known to cause nightmares as a side effect.
>
> great! :(Sorry...just the messenger. :-}
A lot of people have vivid dreams on SSRIs. SSRIs do suppress REM sleep but that just means there's a decrease in the amount of time you spend in REM sleep -- not that it's abolished altogether. They increase the *density* of REMs -- the average number of eye movements per unit time during the REM phase of sleep -- and this seems to result in intense dreams and vivid dream recall for some people. It's probably underreported as a side effect because people often experience the dreams as pleasant or interesting.
I had a weird reaction to antipsychotics (Risperdal and amoxapine in particular): a type of "anxiety dream" with associated abnormal movements. I have REM sleep behaviour disorder (or a variant thereof), in which muscle tone is maintained during REM sleep (this is abnormal), so that I act out my dreams physically. This mainly happens with this particular type of "anxiety dream." For some reason, the neuroleptics triggered episodes of this. (I gather that RBD is usually a nightly thing; for me it's less regular, although still frequent. My case is generally unusual in that RBD primarily is seen in men over the age of 50 with neurological disorders; I'm a healthy woman in my mid 20s.) Also, this was while I was on MAOIs -- very powerful REM suppressors (and hence excellent antinarcoleptic drugs, and also effective in treating RBD). So the neuroleptics actually triggered a relapse of a condition that was being treated.
(TCAs other than amoxapine have not caused this reaction.)
> > Have you tried MAOIs or TCAs?
> >
> Yes to TCAs. I found them just as bad, if not worse than SSRIs for vivid dreams.> No to MAOIs...I refuse to give up alcohol!
You don't have to, except for tap beer. I just posted something about this:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010530/msgs/64979.html
I drank moderate amounts of alcohol a number of times while on Nardil, Parnate, and Marplan, and I know that many people "cheat" on this one with no trouble at all. I never had a problem with it once, although I seem to be hypersensitive to MAOI-associated hypertensive reactions (having had spontaneous reactions on Parnate). There has never been a well documented report of an interaction with alcoholic beverages other than tap beer and certain foreign (for me, that's non-US/Canada) bottled beers. Old, inaccurate methods that have since been debunnked once revealed high levels of tyramine in Chianti, and everyone freaked because there was little knowledge about MAOI interactions at the time. We're still learning, but it's safe to say you can drink moderate amounts without trouble as long as you stay away from tap beer (and obscure foreign beers).
> In some ways I seem to have quite an atypical response to ADs. Dang.
Atypical how?
-elizabeth
Posted by Thrud on June 5, 2001, at 6:35:56
In reply to trazodone, REM sleep, etc. » Thrud, posted by Elizabeth on June 4, 2001, at 23:28:09
>I have REM sleep behaviour disorder (or a variant thereof), in which muscle tone is maintained during REM sleep (this is abnormal), so that I act out my dreams physically.
Steer clear of kickboxing dreams! ;)
> You don't have to, except for tap beer. I just posted something about this:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010530/msgs/64979.htmlMaybe I would switch to bourbon, just to be safe...
> > In some ways I seem to have quite an atypical response to ADs. Dang.
>
> Atypical how?
>Two areas specifically. The first is the vivid dreaming, so intense it can bust through the strongest of sedating ADs and are always associated with negative emotions (like your "anxiety dreams"?).
The second is sexual dysfunction. I get very significant problems even from those that aren't *supposed* to give you any problem. For someone who was probably hypersexual before I had to take medication, it has been a very bitter blow.
That is another reason I am not really interested in MAOIs: with the exception of selegiline they have a reputation for that side effect.
I'll have my impotence with beer rather than without, thanks. ;)Thrud
Posted by Elizabeth on June 6, 2001, at 21:09:32
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by Thrud on June 5, 2001, at 6:35:56
> >I have REM sleep behaviour disorder (or a variant thereof), in which muscle tone is maintained during REM sleep (this is abnormal), so that I act out my dreams physically.
>
> Steer clear of kickboxing dreams! ;)Never had kickboxing dreams, but I have attacked others who happened to be present during my "episodes." Jumping out of bed is the other common consequence of this that leads to awakenings.
> Maybe I would switch to bourbon, just to be safe...
Do what you think is best, but you really don't need to deprive yourself seriously in order to take MAOIs (unless you're like a friend of mine who likes to drink soy sauce -- yikes).
> > > In some ways I seem to have quite an atypical response to ADs. Dang.
> >
> > Atypical how?
> >
>
> Two areas specifically. The first is the vivid dreaming, so intense it can bust through the strongest of sedating ADs and are always associated with negative emotions (like your "anxiety dreams"?).Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
> The second is sexual dysfunction. I get very significant problems even from those that aren't *supposed* to give you any problem. For someone who was probably hypersexual before I had to take medication, it has been a very bitter blow.
Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?
> That is another reason I am not really interested in MAOIs: with the exception of selegiline they have a reputation for that side effect.
My impression has been that Nardil is much likelier to cause problems in that realm than Parnate is. FWIW.
> I'll have my impotence with beer rather than without, thanks. ;)
< g >
-elizabeth
Posted by Thrud on June 6, 2001, at 23:43:17
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc. » Thrud, posted by Elizabeth on June 6, 2001, at 21:09:32
> Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
Before my first episode of depression my dreams almost always had the same format. The "fight or flight" sequence followed by a happy ending, sort of like making it to the "promised land". After depression and antidepressants, the happy endings stopped and left only the anxiety ridden parts. They also became generally more bizarre. It is not an exaggeration to say I have not had a pleasant dream in over ten years.
>
> Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?Serzone, Wellbutrin, Mianserin, Remeron, SAM-E, NADH, phosphatidylserine, Gingko, St Johns Wort, L-Tyrosine...probably more I can't remember. I've grown very tired of seeing studies where a given drug has sexual dysfunction rates at placebo, then when I try it I cop that problem. I know it is the drugs because if I go off them my functioning comes back fully. I'm still considering ECT to escape it, but it has a whole set of new problems of its own. Trazodone and Buspar are about my last realistic choices and given my past record I am not hopeful.
No wonder I like to compensate for that loss by gaining in beer. Ah, sweet amber bliss!.
> My impression has been that Nardil is much likelier to cause problems in that realm than Parnate is. FWIW.I'll check out the literature on Parnate. If shows placebo levels of sexual dysfunction then I will seriously consider it.
Thanks for your help.Thrud
> < g >
Sorry, but what does this symbol mean?
Posted by Elizabeth on June 8, 2001, at 15:09:50
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by Thrud on June 6, 2001, at 23:43:17
> > Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
>
> Before my first episode of depression my dreams almost always had the same format. The "fight or flight" sequence followed by a happy ending, sort of like making it to the "promised land". After depression and antidepressants, the happy endings stopped and left only the anxiety ridden parts. They also became generally more bizarre. It is not an exaggeration to say I have not had a pleasant dream in over ten years.The anxiety dreams that I recall don't tend to have a resolution or ending of any sort, really. This may simply be because the dreams I recall are the ones where I wake up before the dream ends, though. I used to have a recurring dream (with superficial variations) about the end of the world, and I would always wake up right when the world ended. Although they were scary (my first memory of having this dream was when I was 4 years old or so), the end-of-the-world dreams did have a sort of "promised land" quality, too. (Sick, eh?)
Dream bizarreness is associated with REMs, and sometimes people have "dream" experiences that are very mundane and turn out to occur in other stages of sleep. I think that SSRI-induced increased density of REMs during REM sleep is the cause of bizarre dreams for a lot of people.
> > Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?
>
> Serzone, Wellbutrin, Mianserin, Remeron, SAM-E, NADH, phosphatidylserine, Gingko, St Johns Wort, L-Tyrosine...probably more I can't remember.The most surprising of those are Wellbutrin and tyrosine. Was the quality of the dysfunction different with different drugs or types of drugs?
> I've grown very tired of seeing studies where a given drug has sexual dysfunction rates at placebo, then when I try it I cop that problem.
You're one of those data points that get thrown away and chalked up to experimental error because they would ruin the results of the experiment. :-}
> I'm still considering ECT to escape it, but it has a whole set of new problems of its own.
So I hear. But I've never gotten what I considered a completely reliable account of serious problems from ECT. So, while I'm somewhat afraid of it, I don't rule it out as a possibility. A definite disadvantage of ECT is that it doesn't work for very long. I don't know if maintenance ECT is consistent with a high level of functioning (if nothing else, it's usually hard to do stuff on the day you have a treatment).
> Trazodone and Buspar are about my last realistic choices and given my past record I am not hopeful.
They're worth trying. See if you can get a sample of one or both so you don't have to go through the hassle of filling a prescription for something you might only be trying once. (I don't know if you could get a sample of trazodone, although I did once get samples of Deseryl Dividose.)
> No wonder I like to compensate for that loss by gaining in beer. Ah, sweet amber bliss!.
:-) I never got it about alcohol. It just makes me tired, but it obviously has a lot of appeal for many people.
> I'll check out the literature on Parnate. If shows placebo levels of sexual dysfunction then I will seriously consider it.
Good plan. I'm just going on what I've heard from other people. The only drug that ever caused that kind of problem for me was Marplan, believe it or not. Also, I know that some people get sexual problems from Parnate, but it's still worth trying.
Some other notably absent drugs:
- amphetamine and other psychostimulants (not Provigil, as far as I know): less of a pain to try than Parnate, because you can take them with other antidepressants
- bethanechol: particularly with the noradrenergic or anticholinergic drugs that cause sexual problems (but also depending on the nature of the problems)
- tricyclics: which ones would be most likely to help would depend on the type of sexual side effects you get from different types of drugsAs you can see, the type of sexual dysfunction is important in figuring out what will work. Sexual dysfunctions can include loss of or reduction in libido, desire, or drive; impotence or inability to become aroused physically; pain or discomfort associated with sex (of various sorts: for example, in women this can be due to excessive tightness or failure to lubricate; in both sexes it can be a feeling of having to urinate instead of becoming aroused); and probably some other things I can't think of right now.
> Thanks for your help.
I'm afraid it was more bad news than help, but you're welcome.
> > < g >
>
> Sorry, but what does this symbol mean?"grin." Similar to ":-)"
-elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on June 8, 2001, at 15:13:38
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc. » Thrud, posted by Elizabeth on June 8, 2001, at 15:09:50
> As you can see, the type of sexual dysfunction is important in figuring out what will work. Sexual dysfunctions can include loss of or reduction in libido, desire, or drive; impotence or inability to become aroused physically; pain or discomfort associated with sex (of various sorts: for example, in women this can be due to excessive tightness or failure to lubricate; in both sexes it can be a feeling of having to urinate instead of becoming aroused); and probably some other things I can't think of right now.
I forgot to mention anorgasmia, where you can get started but can't seem to finish.
BTW, Parnate might turn out to have a rate of sexual dysfunction significantly greater than placebo, but that doesn't mean it will cause it for you. (I don't think it's clear how often Parnate causes this side effect, only that it's better than Nardil.)
-elizabeth
Posted by chiaratara on July 9, 2001, at 13:43:08
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by Thrud on June 6, 2001, at 23:43:17
i didn't have sleep disturbances, but i didhave insomnia from Effexor. Trazadone was like a wonder drug for my sleep. i don't even dream. i slept solid as a rock. when i would get up, i would feel as though there must be some sort of imprint in my bed, because i slept so hard.
try trazadone. it is supposed to help with sleep architecture. good luck
> > Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
>
> Before my first episode of depression my dreams almost always had the same format. The "fight or flight" sequence followed by a happy ending, sort of like making it to the "promised land". After depression and antidepressants, the happy endings stopped and left only the anxiety ridden parts. They also became generally more bizarre. It is not an exaggeration to say I have not had a pleasant dream in over ten years.
>
> >
> > Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?
>
> Serzone, Wellbutrin, Mianserin, Remeron, SAM-E, NADH, phosphatidylserine, Gingko, St Johns Wort, L-Tyrosine...probably more I can't remember. I've grown very tired of seeing studies where a given drug has sexual dysfunction rates at placebo, then when I try it I cop that problem. I know it is the drugs because if I go off them my functioning comes back fully. I'm still considering ECT to escape it, but it has a whole set of new problems of its own. Trazodone and Buspar are about my last realistic choices and given my past record I am not hopeful.
> No wonder I like to compensate for that loss by gaining in beer. Ah, sweet amber bliss!.
>
>
> > My impression has been that Nardil is much likelier to cause problems in that realm than Parnate is. FWIW.
>
> I'll check out the literature on Parnate. If shows placebo levels of sexual dysfunction then I will seriously consider it.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Thrud
>
> > < g >
>
> Sorry, but what does this symbol mean?
Posted by Elizabeth on July 9, 2001, at 19:16:53
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by chiaratara on July 9, 2001, at 13:43:08
chiaratara:
> try trazadone. it is supposed to help with sleep architecture. good luckWhether it "helps" with sleep architecture or not depends on what your problem is. It's a pretty strong antihistamine (in a pinch, I once used it for the itchies), and this probably accounts for its sedative actions. It does increase sleep continuity and total sleep time (two of the problems often caused or exacerbated by SSRIs and Effexor) and decreases sleep latency (the amount of time it takes to get to sleep), but those aren't usually what is meant by "sleep architecture." Trazodone decreases deep (stages III-IV) sleep and REM sleep and increases non-REM stages I-II sleep. Like I said, whether or not this is a good thing depends on what your problems are.
Also, trazodone can cause nightmares for some people (probably due to serotonin agonism, particularly by its anxiogenic metabolite meta-chlorophenylpiperidine (mCPP)).
-elizabeth
Posted by tina on July 10, 2001, at 11:27:09
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by chiaratara on July 9, 2001, at 13:43:08
trazodone had the opposite effect on me. It made me really really manic but that's just me. I seem to always have the opposite effect from these types of drugs(AD's)
> i didn't have sleep disturbances, but i didhave insomnia from Effexor. Trazadone was like a wonder drug for my sleep. i don't even dream. i slept solid as a rock. when i would get up, i would feel as though there must be some sort of imprint in my bed, because i slept so hard.
>
> try trazadone. it is supposed to help with sleep architecture. good luck
>
>
>
> > > Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
> >
> > Before my first episode of depression my dreams almost always had the same format. The "fight or flight" sequence followed by a happy ending, sort of like making it to the "promised land". After depression and antidepressants, the happy endings stopped and left only the anxiety ridden parts. They also became generally more bizarre. It is not an exaggeration to say I have not had a pleasant dream in over ten years.
> >
> > >
> > > Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?
> >
> > Serzone, Wellbutrin, Mianserin, Remeron, SAM-E, NADH, phosphatidylserine, Gingko, St Johns Wort, L-Tyrosine...probably more I can't remember. I've grown very tired of seeing studies where a given drug has sexual dysfunction rates at placebo, then when I try it I cop that problem. I know it is the drugs because if I go off them my functioning comes back fully. I'm still considering ECT to escape it, but it has a whole set of new problems of its own. Trazodone and Buspar are about my last realistic choices and given my past record I am not hopeful.
> > No wonder I like to compensate for that loss by gaining in beer. Ah, sweet amber bliss!.
> >
> >
> > > My impression has been that Nardil is much likelier to cause problems in that realm than Parnate is. FWIW.
> >
> > I'll check out the literature on Parnate. If shows placebo levels of sexual dysfunction then I will seriously consider it.
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Thrud
> >
> > > < g >
> >
> > Sorry, but what does this symbol mean?
Posted by Zo on July 10, 2001, at 14:42:47
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by tina on July 10, 2001, at 11:27:09
> trazodone had the opposite effect on me. It made me really really manic but that's just me. I seem to always have the opposite effect from these types of drugs(AD's)
Made me manic too (hypomanic) especially the first few nights, each time I went on it. . .but I loooooved it. I'm not saying that's a good thing, just alluding to how seductive that high is. I'm beginning to feel like a junkie who has to come clean to her pdoc, reading this board and everybody's bone honesty. . .realizing I have even lied to him, in the past, about that high. A high not to be found in the world of "recreational" drugs.
Zo
Zo
Posted by Elizabeth on July 11, 2001, at 0:41:38
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by Zo on July 10, 2001, at 14:42:47
> > trazodone had the opposite effect on me. It made me really really manic but that's just me. I seem to always have the opposite effect from these types of drugs(AD's)
>
> Made me manic too (hypomanic) especially the first few nights, each time I went on it.Any effective antidepressant has the potential for triggering mania, particularly (but not exclusively) in individuals with "occult" (latent, unrecognised) bipolar diosrder. Even trazodone, which has a pretty bad reputation as an AD. < g >
-elizabeth
Posted by MB on July 11, 2001, at 1:37:09
In reply to Re: trazodone - Zo, Tina, posted by Elizabeth on July 11, 2001, at 0:41:38
> > > trazodone had the opposite effect on me. It made me really really manic but that's just me. I seem to always have the opposite effect from these types of drugs(AD's)
> >
> > Made me manic too (hypomanic) especially the first few nights, each time I went on it.
>
> Any effective antidepressant has the potential for triggering mania, particularly (but not exclusively) in individuals with "occult" (latent, unrecognised) bipolar diosrder. Even trazodone, which has a pretty bad reputation as an AD. < g >
>
> -elizabethI'm surprised they still use trazadone for sleep. That stuff made me feel wretched. I took it for a while. Fifteen minutes after each dose, I was *OUT* for nine hours whether I had to pee or the house was on fire. Plus, I'd wake up soooo hung over. Worse than benadryl. They might as well have given me chloral hydrate. I thought Ambien was a good sleeping drug. It allowed me to get to sleep, but didn't *make* me sleep. I haven't heard one person on this board mention using it for insomnia. I wonder why?
Posted by Elizabeth on July 11, 2001, at 15:45:55
In reply to Re: trazodone - Zo, Tina, posted by MB on July 11, 2001, at 1:37:09
> I'm surprised they still use trazadone for sleep. That stuff made me feel wretched.
YMMV. It works well for a lot of people.
> They might as well have given me chloral hydrate.
I took that a few times. It was pretty lame.
> I thought Ambien was a good sleeping drug. It allowed me to get to sleep, but didn't *make* me sleep. I haven't heard one person on this board mention using it for insomnia. I wonder why?
You haven't been looking very hard, then. There are several rabid Ambien critics around, people who say they had serious problems related to memory loss and behavioural dyscontrol. My feeling is, if it doesn't work for you, don't take it. But it works great for a lot of people.
My only problem with Ambien is that it doesn't last long enough. My sleep tends to be fragmented, especially later in the evening, and a single dose of Ambien seldom keeps me asleep for more than four or maybe five hours. Taking a second dose in the middle of the night generally works, but my prescription (60 x 10mg/month -- I take 20 mg at a time) isn't large enough for me to do this on a regular basis. Besides, it sure would be nice to sleep continuously for eight hours. Otherwise, it's the best sedative-hypnotic I've found (and I've looked in some strange places).
-elizabeth
Posted by MB on July 11, 2001, at 23:02:01
In reply to Re: trazodone and Ambien » MB, posted by Elizabeth on July 11, 2001, at 15:45:55
> > I'm surprised they still use trazadone for sleep. That stuff made me feel wretched.
>
> YMMV. It works well for a lot of people.Yeah, that's true about the YMMV rule--with any drug, that is. I'm super sensitive to antihistamines--I can't stand them. I tend to be hypercritical of any drug with antihistaminic properties...they make me feel so bad it's almost traumatic, so I unwarrantly bash them universally instead of in terms of my personal experience. So, sorry to any avid trazadone fans out there :-)
> > They might as well have given me chloral hydrate.
>
> I took that a few times. It was pretty lame.Wasn't that what they called "mickeys" in old detective novels?
> > I thought Ambien was a good sleeping drug. It allowed me to get to sleep, but didn't *make* me sleep. I haven't heard one person on this board mention using it for insomnia. I wonder why?
>
> You haven't been looking very hard, then. There are several rabid Ambien critics around, people who say they had serious problems related to memory loss and behavioural dyscontrol. My feeling is, if it doesn't work for you, don't take it. But it works great for a lot of people.
Looking far back is one thing I haven't been doing much of. I recently came back to this board after a period of scholastic mania (no time for the internet), so I don't know what's been said while I was gone (and--yikes--can't remember what I read when i was here last).> My only problem with Ambien is that it doesn't last long enough. My sleep tends to be fragmented, especially later in the evening, and a single dose of Ambien seldom keeps me asleep for more than four or maybe five hours. Taking a second dose in the middle of the night generally works, but my prescription (60 x 10mg/month -- I take 20 mg at a time) isn't large enough for me to do this on a regular basis. Besides, it sure would be nice to sleep continuously for eight hours. Otherwise, it's the best sedative-hypnotic I've found (and I've looked in some strange places).
Yes you have (chloral hydrate). What was that like anyway? I took a bunch of bromine salts that were, I don't know, probably from the sixties...maybe even earlier. They were lame also.
Posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 19:11:14
In reply to Re: trazodone and Ambien » Elizabeth, posted by MB on July 11, 2001, at 23:02:01
> Yeah, that's true about the YMMV rule--with any drug, that is. I'm super sensitive to antihistamines--I can't stand them.
Whereas I don't have much of a problem with them. But you're not alone: a lot of people feel crappy on antihistamines.
OTOH, trazodone is a good sleep med for a lot of people. It didn't do me much good, but I don't bash it in general.
> > I took that a few times. It was pretty lame.
>
> Wasn't that what they called "mickeys" in old detective novels?Uhh...I dunno. (Somebody?)
[re looking in strange places]
> Yes you have (chloral hydrate).Actually that was my pdoc's idea. It was pretty mediocre, and (like many sedative-hypnotics I've tried) it stopped working after a couple of days.
I'd try Placidyl (ethchlorvinyl), but I gather that they took it off the market. And it's impossible to get barbiturates these days. Ambien and Klonopin are about the best I've done.
-elizabet
Posted by MB on July 13, 2001, at 2:35:17
In reply to Re: sleep meds » MB, posted by Elizabeth on July 12, 2001, at 19:11:14
> I'd try Placidyl (ethchlorvinyl), but I gather that they took it off the market. And it's impossible to get barbiturates these days. Ambien and Klonopin are about the best I've done.
>
> -elizabetMy cousin was able to get something called butalbital for anxiety. That was weird. I thought it was one of those drugs like codeine that you just never find in preperations by itself...but he got butalbital tabs. Probably had been sitting on the pharmD's shelf for decades (LOL).
Too bad you can't get methaqualone anymore < g >
Posted by amyw on July 13, 2001, at 12:40:32
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by chiaratara on July 9, 2001, at 13:43:08
I have been on prozac for 14 years with good success, but my sleep was awful. I ahd used xanax, but it didnt' help and i was waking up so much. 50 mgs of trazodone has helped so much, but when I ran out, I could hardly sleep at all for a few nights and woke up every 30 minutes.
Posted by Elizabeth on July 15, 2001, at 17:58:46
In reply to Re: sleep meds » Elizabeth, posted by MB on July 13, 2001, at 2:35:17
> My cousin was able to get something called butalbital for anxiety. That was weird.
It's a barbiturate. It's usually seen in the form of Fioricet or Fiorinal.
> I thought it was one of those drugs like codeine that you just never find in preperations by itself...but he got butalbital tabs.
Yeah, I didn't know that plain butalbital existed. (Plain codeine does, but it's C-II and it's so much weaker than other opioids that it's seldom used.)
> Too bad you can't get methaqualone anymore < g >
I'm a little too young to have experienced that, I'm afraid. < g >
-elizabeth
Posted by amateur MD on June 26, 2004, at 12:12:25
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by amyw on July 13, 2001, at 12:40:32
Did you eventually adjust to life without trazodone? I've been taking Traz. for 2 1/2 years to sleep at night and found the same thing when I tried to go off it.
After three rough nights I went back on it, but am wondering if I had stuck it out, would that rebound effect eventually have subsided? Did yours?
I only use 1/8 to 1/4 of a 100 mg. pill. I've read that Trazodone reduces stage III, IV and REM sleep, so it can't be good for you in the long run.
> I have been on prozac for 14 years with good success, but my sleep was awful. I ahd used xanax, but it didnt' help and i was waking up so much. 50 mgs of trazodone has helped so much, but when I ran out, I could hardly sleep at all for a few nights and woke up every 30 minutes.
This is the end of the thread.
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