![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 23:47:11
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
YES, you can recover from suicidal depression, adamie. I've been "down" where you have, felt exactly what you have described (not due to Accutane, but just a biochemical imbalance) plus other things like anxiety, tension, obsessive racing thoughts - it is torture.
Ironically, PAXIL was what brought me out of it the first time, and it did take a few weeks for it to work.
I think your chances of recovery are VERY good because you have NOT been depressed before, and your current depression was caused by a medicine (Accutane), NOT a biochemical thing within YOU.
I think someone with your situation can make a FULL recovery these anti-depressants; in fact, I know a few people who had "environmentally" induced depression, went on an a-d, they FULLY recovered, and have not gotten depressed again since.
Remission basically means "absence of symptoms" - the symptoms "go away" but do not disappear completely - they kind of go into hiding, dormant (sleep mode) but could (and often do) come back again. That's why many people (myself included) stay on the meds a LONG time.
It does sound like you're having a major depressive episode right, and when it ends, you will be "completely normal." It takes TIME.
So, YES, there sure IS a realistic, a VERY realistic chance for you to feel that good again, and to STAY that good. It sounds to me, and it's only my "guess" based on what you wrote, that you WILL recover COMPLETELY and you will STAY recovered. Good luck.
-Janelle
Posted by JohnL on July 15, 2001, at 6:44:28
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
You can recover nearly 100%. It's all a matter of finding the right drug that affects the faulty chemisty. Simpler said than done, unfortunately. In my mind, 50% recovery is not success, because it means you're still depressed. My psychiatrist told me that only about 30% of his patients got completely well. The positive side of that is that those 30% were the ones that didn't give up trying different drug categories. (hint, do not limit therapy to antidepressants). Personally I have experienced, and seen in others, the most profound success in the antipsychotic and stimulant categories, with a little bit of an antidepressant in the background. Of all the antidepressants, I would not even consider trying any of them until I had tried good ole time-proven Prozac first. Nothing has a track record like Prozac. Other top contenders, in my opinion, include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Ritalin, Adderal, Amisulpride, and Adrafinil, or any combination of two or three of them. Forget all the others until these have been tried first. Just my experience. Mileage varies. But I'm hoping to help steer you in a direction where you will find the greatest mileage.
John
>
> hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
>
> After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
>
> And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
>
> In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
>
> And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
>
> Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by Shar on July 15, 2001, at 8:24:47
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by JohnL on July 15, 2001, at 6:44:28
If accutane causes depression, is it the same kind of chemical imbalance that people experience with 'regular' depression? Does Accutane get in there and mess with Serotonin, etc.?
I am not familiar with med induced depression, and wonder why it would be the same as what we have naturally.
Shar
> You can recover nearly 100%. It's all a matter of finding the right drug that affects the faulty chemisty. Simpler said than done, unfortunately. In my mind, 50% recovery is not success, because it means you're still depressed. My psychiatrist told me that only about 30% of his patients got completely well. The positive side of that is that those 30% were the ones that didn't give up trying different drug categories. (hint, do not limit therapy to antidepressants). Personally I have experienced, and seen in others, the most profound success in the antipsychotic and stimulant categories, with a little bit of an antidepressant in the background. Of all the antidepressants, I would not even consider trying any of them until I had tried good ole time-proven Prozac first. Nothing has a track record like Prozac. Other top contenders, in my opinion, include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Ritalin, Adderal, Amisulpride, and Adrafinil, or any combination of two or three of them. Forget all the others until these have been tried first. Just my experience. Mileage varies. But I'm hoping to help steer you in a direction where you will find the greatest mileage.
> John
> >
> > hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
> >
> > After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> > I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
> >
> > And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
> >
> > In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
> >
> > And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
> >
> > Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by Shar on July 15, 2001, at 8:32:11
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
Adamie,
4 weeks in is still early days. It is not unusual to wait a while longer before getting the full benefit of a med.When I had experiences of "the bottom falling out" or suddenly being intensely depressed, my pdoc upped my dose a bit, saying it might be the case that the amount I was taking was not getting me thru 24 hours.
I think you are ABSOLUTELY doing the right thing to keep communicating with your fiancee, even if you think it is gibberish. That is an important activity--to not cut yourself off from others. And it sounds like you get a lot of pleasure from your interactions, so keep up the good work.
If after 2-3 more weeks things don't even out at all, you might want to increase your dose slightly--after you've talked to your doc first.
Keep posting here and let us know how you are.
Shar
>
> hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
>
> After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
>
> And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
>
> In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
>
> And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
>
> Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by kathyy on July 15, 2001, at 10:40:12
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression? » adamie, posted by Shar on July 15, 2001, at 8:32:11
I too suffer from what you are suffering from. Mine from a combo of celexa and ativan 25 days(ativan) 12 days (celexa) That's all it took to ruin my Emotions, Muscles spasm 24 hours a daay. I can't concentrate. i pace all the time. I have extreme diffficulty processing info, making decisions. I feel nothing . I can't believe meds can do this to people > Ruins their lives. I feel for you. I'm going thru the same thing. Every other sentence in my head is" I can't believe I will have to die over 25 days of pills if I don't start getting better". I hate ignoring my family and fiance. I was supposed to get marriied this August. I Know I love these people , but to initiate conversation is so hard. And the loss of emotions is unreal. You know what you were like before meds right? Well that's a good indicator of what is going on. That's the way I feel. jsut know that you are not alone.
Posted by kathyy on July 15, 2001, at 10:42:50
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 23:47:11
By the way I forgot to say I do think there is hope for people like us. That's why we are on this board still. Looking for hope and people that are in the same boat. I believe these things take time. Lots of it. As bleak as every day may be, I hope and pray that time will do wonders.
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:22:51
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 23:47:11
Thank you for replying. It is good to know I can possibly make a full recovery. I just hope it wont take many years.
> YES, you can recover from suicidal depression, adamie. I've been "down" where you have, felt exactly what you have described (not due to Accutane, but just a biochemical imbalance) plus other things like anxiety, tension, obsessive racing thoughts - it is torture.
>
> Ironically, PAXIL was what brought me out of it the first time, and it did take a few weeks for it to work.
>
> I think your chances of recovery are VERY good because you have NOT been depressed before, and your current depression was caused by a medicine (Accutane), NOT a biochemical thing within YOU.
>
> I think someone with your situation can make a FULL recovery these anti-depressants; in fact, I know a few people who had "environmentally" induced depression, went on an a-d, they FULLY recovered, and have not gotten depressed again since.
>
> Remission basically means "absence of symptoms" - the symptoms "go away" but do not disappear completely - they kind of go into hiding, dormant (sleep mode) but could (and often do) come back again. That's why many people (myself included) stay on the meds a LONG time.
>
> It does sound like you're having a major depressive episode right, and when it ends, you will be "completely normal." It takes TIME.
>
> So, YES, there sure IS a realistic, a VERY realistic chance for you to feel that good again, and to STAY that good. It sounds to me, and it's only my "guess" based on what you wrote, that you WILL recover COMPLETELY and you will STAY recovered. Good luck.
> -Janelle
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:40:19
In reply to Q to all: Is Accutane Depression Like Regular D?, posted by Shar on July 15, 2001, at 8:24:47
> If accutane causes depression, is it the same kind of chemical imbalance that people experience with 'regular' depression? Does Accutane get in there and mess with Serotonin, etc.?
I am not really sure. But accutane is a man made vitamin A and there is evidence that high amounts of vitamin A can cause mental disorders. High amounts of vitamin A are very toxic. A long time ago sailors who would eat polar bear liver which was rich in vitamin A would develop manic depression.
The depression caused by accutane in most cases is supossed to go away after one stops taking the medication. But for some people it can be long lasting and even perminent. I have read some horror stories of people who have developed treatment resistant depression from accutane. Accutane can cause various different symptoms and forms of depression. Some people have developed suicidal depression with rage symptoms. Some have developed phychosis.
Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression? The accutane has caused many problems. Such as yellower skin which has gone away mostly. Loss of night vision and different vision in general. But perhaps the depression affects my vision in some ways because when I feel my worst my vision is at it's worst. My hair is more messy and less managable. It makes me wonder what else it may have done to my brain.
Does anyone know a relation between brain swelling and depression?
> I am not familiar with med induced depression, and wonder why it would be the same as what we have naturally.
>
> Shar
>
>
>
>
> > You can recover nearly 100%. It's all a matter of finding the right drug that affects the faulty chemisty. Simpler said than done, unfortunately. In my mind, 50% recovery is not success, because it means you're still depressed. My psychiatrist told me that only about 30% of his patients got completely well. The positive side of that is that those 30% were the ones that didn't give up trying different drug categories. (hint, do not limit therapy to antidepressants). Personally I have experienced, and seen in others, the most profound success in the antipsychotic and stimulant categories, with a little bit of an antidepressant in the background. Of all the antidepressants, I would not even consider trying any of them until I had tried good ole time-proven Prozac first. Nothing has a track record like Prozac. Other top contenders, in my opinion, include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Ritalin, Adderal, Amisulpride, and Adrafinil, or any combination of two or three of them. Forget all the others until these have been tried first. Just my experience. Mileage varies. But I'm hoping to help steer you in a direction where you will find the greatest mileage.
> > John
> > >
> > > hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
> > >
> > > After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> > > I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
> > >
> > > And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
> > >
> > > In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
> > >
> > > And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
> > >
> > > Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by AMenz on July 15, 2001, at 18:23:22
In reply to Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling » Shar, posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:40:19
In the website for Roche Laboratories, it clearly states that the effects you are experiencing are a side effect of accutane, although they label the incidence as rare. They also have an informed consent documents which apparently is meant to inform patient of these side effects and obtain their consent, thereby limiting or eliminating their liability because the patient assumed the risk.
Did you sign a consent? If you were not informed of these possible effects I would visit a lawyer.
I also must say that it is extremely cavalier, no matter how bad a case of acne, for doctors to prescribe a medication that has this kind of potential since acne is not a life threatening disorder.
I am outraged for you.
Please keep the faith, because as everyone has assured you on the board depression does lift. It will remit.
Continue to take your medication and also if you are able, continue a daily routine, exercise, school, what have you, if you can. I have found these activities to be beneficial although it requires effort to continue your daily routine when you are depressed.
Talk therapy as a support while you are filling ill might also help.
> > If accutane causes depression, is it the same kind of chemical imbalance that people experience with 'regular' depression? Does Accutane get in there and mess with Serotonin, etc.?
>
> I am not really sure. But accutane is a man made vitamin A and there is evidence that high amounts of vitamin A can cause mental disorders. High amounts of vitamin A are very toxic. A long time ago sailors who would eat polar bear liver which was rich in vitamin A would develop manic depression.
>
> The depression caused by accutane in most cases is supossed to go away after one stops taking the medication. But for some people it can be long lasting and even perminent. I have read some horror stories of people who have developed treatment resistant depression from accutane. Accutane can cause various different symptoms and forms of depression. Some people have developed suicidal depression with rage symptoms. Some have developed phychosis.
>
> Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression? The accutane has caused many problems. Such as yellower skin which has gone away mostly. Loss of night vision and different vision in general. But perhaps the depression affects my vision in some ways because when I feel my worst my vision is at it's worst. My hair is more messy and less managable. It makes me wonder what else it may have done to my brain.
>
> Does anyone know a relation between brain swelling and depression?
>
> > I am not familiar with med induced depression, and wonder why it would be the same as what we have naturally.
> >
> > Shar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > You can recover nearly 100%. It's all a matter of finding the right drug that affects the faulty chemisty. Simpler said than done, unfortunately. In my mind, 50% recovery is not success, because it means you're still depressed. My psychiatrist told me that only about 30% of his patients got completely well. The positive side of that is that those 30% were the ones that didn't give up trying different drug categories. (hint, do not limit therapy to antidepressants). Personally I have experienced, and seen in others, the most profound success in the antipsychotic and stimulant categories, with a little bit of an antidepressant in the background. Of all the antidepressants, I would not even consider trying any of them until I had tried good ole time-proven Prozac first. Nothing has a track record like Prozac. Other top contenders, in my opinion, include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Ritalin, Adderal, Amisulpride, and Adrafinil, or any combination of two or three of them. Forget all the others until these have been tried first. Just my experience. Mileage varies. But I'm hoping to help steer you in a direction where you will find the greatest mileage.
> > > John
> > > >
> > > > hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
> > > >
> > > > After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> > > > I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
> > > >
> > > > And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
> > > >
> > > > In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
> > > >
> > > > And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
> > > >
> > > > Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by Andy123 on July 15, 2001, at 19:57:33
In reply to Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling » Shar, posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 13:40:19
> Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression?
Hi Again Adamie,
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you have become delusional. I think that you are very very depressed and its causing you some amount of psychotic thinking. I'm not saying accutane didn't cause this, as this seems to be the case. But if you really feel like your cranium has changed shape or size then you really need to talk to your doctor about this. I'm also not saying that you don't have some intra-cranial pressure that should be checked out (it should be checked out.) But it takes some amount of separation from reality to believe that your head has changed size. Anyhow I think you need more aggressive therapy than just Paxil.
I say this out of empathy and nothing else. I have had delusional thinking of this type before, and it was at a time when I was really depressed. Please be assertive with your psychiatrist and insist that he/she help you with the thought disorder that seems to be cropping up with your depression. And if you are still taking that SAMe stuff, I think you should stop it as it seems to be somewhat of a stimulant.
Andy
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 20:36:17
In reply to Re: Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling Adami, posted by AMenz on July 15, 2001, at 18:23:22
> In the website for Roche Laboratories, it clearly states that the effects you are experiencing are a side effect of accutane, although they label the incidence as rare. They also have an informed consent documents which apparently is meant to inform patient of these side effects and obtain their consent, thereby limiting or eliminating their liability because the patient assumed the risk.
>
> Did you sign a consent? If you were not informed of these possible effects I would visit a lawyer.I did not sign a consent form. Here in Canada the doctors are free to give out accutane as candy. The doctor didn't even see me at all actually. I am 18 and my mom previously got the accutane for me when I was 16 but I refused to take it because I didn't feel my acne was too bad and I certainly didn't care too much regarding my acne. She got the accutane for me just like that. All she did was go to the doctor, tell him I had acne, and she got the accutane. A few months ago my acne situation was a bit bad and since my mom so easily got this medication I figured it must have been safe. And she told me how my aunt took it and how great it was for her. And how her friends took it also. So she convinced me to take it. I went over the list of side effects on the package. The package was an outdated one and of course here in canada the updated packages and even consent forms are not mandatory. So instead of the updated warning which says "accutane may cause depression, suicidal idiation, suicide, phychosis, and other phychiatric disorders" was not on the package. What was on the package was a mild warning of possibly rare 'mood changes'. So I took the medication and stopped when I realized my mood starting to slide. I wish I had noticed sooner. I sure hope it hasn't ruined my life.
I dont have any motivation for legal action. With the severity of my depression it is hard to care about anything. I would honestly trade both my legs, my left arm, and whatever else just to be back to my old self.
> I also must say that it is extremely cavalier, no matter how bad a case of acne, for doctors to prescribe a medication that has this kind of potential since acne is not a life threatening disorder.
>
> I am outraged for you.
>
> Please keep the faith, because as everyone has assured you on the board depression does lift. It will remit.Things are hard but I will be patient and keep waiting until something works. At least things aren't torturous anymore. Instead it is waitable. very waitable. and I will continue to do so until I am better.
> Continue to take your medication and also if you are able, continue a daily routine, exercise, school, what have you, if you can. I have found these activities to be beneficial although it requires effort to continue your daily routine when you are depressed.I try do sometimes do a little something but it is very hard to be motivated for anything.
I hope I wont be in the state I am in right now when school starts again in September. I dont know how I could manage at school. I remember when my depression was a bit more severe I had to take an exam. I wanted to skip the exam because I had a high mark in that class which I obtained before being depressed, I was a very good worker. so I could easily skip the exam and still pass the course. But I was forced to go due to my mom. I went and it was very difficult to even read the questions. Concentration was also extremely difficult. After struggling to read the questions I would have to re-read them over a few times to fully understand what they were asking. I am relieved things are not that horrible anymore but school would still be extremely hard for me. I am unsuited to do much in my current condition.
> Talk therapy as a support while you are filling ill might also help.
Every week I am taken to a therapist at the local hospital. It doesn't really help me but it is certainly good to talk about it.
thanks for the reply.
> > > If accutane causes depression, is it the same kind of chemical imbalance that people experience with 'regular' depression? Does Accutane get in there and mess with Serotonin, etc.?
> >
> > I am not really sure. But accutane is a man made vitamin A and there is evidence that high amounts of vitamin A can cause mental disorders. High amounts of vitamin A are very toxic. A long time ago sailors who would eat polar bear liver which was rich in vitamin A would develop manic depression.
> >
> > The depression caused by accutane in most cases is supossed to go away after one stops taking the medication. But for some people it can be long lasting and even perminent. I have read some horror stories of people who have developed treatment resistant depression from accutane. Accutane can cause various different symptoms and forms of depression. Some people have developed suicidal depression with rage symptoms. Some have developed phychosis.
> >
> > Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression? The accutane has caused many problems. Such as yellower skin which has gone away mostly. Loss of night vision and different vision in general. But perhaps the depression affects my vision in some ways because when I feel my worst my vision is at it's worst. My hair is more messy and less managable. It makes me wonder what else it may have done to my brain.
> >
> > Does anyone know a relation between brain swelling and depression?
> >
> > > I am not familiar with med induced depression, and wonder why it would be the same as what we have naturally.
> > >
> > > Shar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > You can recover nearly 100%. It's all a matter of finding the right drug that affects the faulty chemisty. Simpler said than done, unfortunately. In my mind, 50% recovery is not success, because it means you're still depressed. My psychiatrist told me that only about 30% of his patients got completely well. The positive side of that is that those 30% were the ones that didn't give up trying different drug categories. (hint, do not limit therapy to antidepressants). Personally I have experienced, and seen in others, the most profound success in the antipsychotic and stimulant categories, with a little bit of an antidepressant in the background. Of all the antidepressants, I would not even consider trying any of them until I had tried good ole time-proven Prozac first. Nothing has a track record like Prozac. Other top contenders, in my opinion, include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Ritalin, Adderal, Amisulpride, and Adrafinil, or any combination of two or three of them. Forget all the others until these have been tried first. Just my experience. Mileage varies. But I'm hoping to help steer you in a direction where you will find the greatest mileage.
> > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
> > > > >
> > > > > After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> > > > > I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
> > > > >
> > > > > And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
> > > > >
> > > > > In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
> > > > >
> > > > > And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
> > > > >
> > > > > Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 20:48:49
In reply to Re: Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling » adamie, posted by Andy123 on July 15, 2001, at 19:57:33
> > Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression?
>
> Hi Again Adamie,
> I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you have become delusional. I think that you are very very depressed and its causing you some amount of psychotic thinking. I'm not saying accutane didn't cause this, as this seems to be the case. But if you really feel like your cranium has changed shape or size then you really need to talk to your doctor about this. I'm also not saying that you don't have some intra-cranial pressure that should be checked out (it should be checked out.) But it takes some amount of separation from reality to believe that your head has changed size. Anyhow I think you need more aggressive therapy than just Paxil.I am honestly not being delusional. My depression has not had any phychotic features. My head hasn't changed size but it just looks different. It's not something which is very noticable but after a shower when I comb my hair back, I just look different than normal. At first I was quite shocked when I realized this. Right now I seem to look more like my old self but I dont know. I know it is hard to believe but accutane is known to have caused brain swelling in many cases. I certainly would hope it is just something with my vision causing me to percieve my own apperance differently but I strongly feel that is not the case.
I dont know how to mention this to my therapist. If I mention it she may think I am crazy and not take things I say too seriously. I guess I will see. I will mention my concerns regarding brain swelling. Thank you for replying.
> I say this out of empathy and nothing else. I have had delusional thinking of this type before, and it was at a time when I was really depressed. Please be assertive with your psychiatrist and insist that he/she help you with the thought disorder that seems to be cropping up with your depression. And if you are still taking that SAMe stuff, I think you should stop it as it seems to be somewhat of a stimulant.
> Andy
Posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 20:57:23
In reply to Re: Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling » adamie, posted by Andy123 on July 15, 2001, at 19:57:33
> > Accutane can create many problems. In my case I think it may have done some brain swelling. This may sound strange but my HEAD looks different. As if it is wider. I remember having a huge headache during the days when I stopped taking accutane. And I didn't notice my altered appearance until the depression was in it's most severe stages. Now I am not sure but maybe I look more back to normal. Maybe the swelling has decreased. Maybe the brain swelling is somehow related to my depression?
>
> Hi Again Adamie,
> I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you have become delusional. I think that you are very very depressed and its causing you some amount of psychotic thinking. I'm not saying accutane didn't cause this, as this seems to be the case. But if you really feel like your cranium has changed shape or size then you really need to talk to your doctor about this. I'm also not saying that you don't have some intra-cranial pressure that should be checked out (it should be checked out.) But it takes some amount of separation from reality to believe that your head has changed size. Anyhow I think you need more aggressive therapy than just Paxil.My depression is indeed very severe. Can you maybe elaborate on what you mean by more aggresive therapy? I have been on the paxil for 20 days so far. And I dont take the sam-e anymore. I ran out of that and I dont think it has been helping. I just hope my paxil will work.
2 weeks on paxil my mood was really rising. And I actually started to feel decent a bit. then it went down and still is very down. could this mean that I just need a higher dose? that maybe the paxil was working early on but a higher dose needed. I will ask about raising the dose, actually I will insist to raise the dosage on thursday when I go to my therapist.
> I say this out of empathy and nothing else. I have had delusional thinking of this type before, and it was at a time when I was really depressed. Please be assertive with your psychiatrist and insist that he/she help you with the thought disorder that seems to be cropping up with your depression. And if you are still taking that SAMe stuff, I think you should stop it as it seems to be somewhat of a stimulant.
> Andy
Posted by Andy123 on July 15, 2001, at 23:17:18
In reply to Re: Accutane depression, and Brain Swelling » Andy123, posted by adamie on July 15, 2001, at 20:48:49
> I am honestly not being delusional. My depression has not had any phychotic features. My head hasn't changed size but it just looks different. It's not something which is very noticable but after a shower when I comb my hair back, I just look different than normal. At first I was quite shocked when I realized this. Right now I seem to look more like my old self but I dont know. I know it is hard to believe but accutane is known to have caused brain swelling in many cases. I certainly would hope it is just something with my vision causing me to percieve my own apperance differently but I strongly feel that is not the case.
> I dont know how to mention this to my therapist. If I mention it she may think I am crazy and not take things I say too seriously. I guess I will see. I will mention my concerns regarding brain swelling. Thank you for replying.Adamie, (I have read both of your responses.)
You aren't capable of discerning whether these beliefs are delusional or not, as this is the nature of a delusion. You are convinced that they are true, but in fact they are not. Brain swelling could not by any stretch of the imagination change the shape of your head. The thick bone structure surrounding your brain would require unreal amounts of prolonged pressure to alter its shape. "brain swelling" isn't diagnosed by the size of the head, as I am sure you are aware. I'm not sure how intracranial pressure is diagnosed except by symptoms. But trust me, your head has not or could not change shape because of brain swelling. Right now your perceptions ARE distorted by depression.You really, really have to write down what you were thinking and percieving as you looked in the mirror and saw changes in your head, and you need to take these written perceptions to your psychiatrist. It is going to be best for you. Try to get in to see your doctor before Thursday.
Concerning what "more aggressive treatment" might mean in this context: when there are psychotic features in depression, a more sedating antidepressant might be able to alleviate the delusional somatization. Others on this board might have input into how true this is... The other option would be to add a small dose of Haldol, Navane or some other antipsychotic on a temporary basis.
But its not my place by any means to be advising you so specifically, as I'm just another patient myself! Its important that your psychiatrist hear the whole story of what is going on in your thought processes. Don't hold back because of your fear of having your opinion disregarded. Telling them about these perceptions won't deligitimize the importance of following up on the Accutane side effects.
By my own totally unqualified opinion, you have to do two things: (1.) disclose fully your thoughts about how your head seems different in your perception (2.) make sure they follow up on the possibility of intra-cranial pressure, as its a known side-effect caused by Accutane.
Its very common to have resistence to being treated with sedating antidepressants or antipsychotics, as you might already be sluggish from the depression. The other reason the latter choice is often resisted is the possibility of EPS, which can make someone very sick. If the dose of antipsychotic is low, the chances of this happening are much lower. Also the new antipsychotics (e.g. olanzapine)don't seem to cause these problems nearly as often. But the alternative could be to continue spiralling into panicked states and paranoid belief systems. Your illness won't resolve if you have irrational belief systems that feed into the depression.
Posted by Else on July 17, 2001, at 8:08:00
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
I read about a US congressman who's son committed suicide after using Accutane. I find it quite revolting that the company would defend itself by claiming teenagers with acne are more likely to commit suicide rather than claiming responsibility. Accutane can cause birth defects and suicidal depression but Roche is trying to present it as a mild, easy-to-use-just-pop-a-pill acne treatment, despite their claims to the contrary. They are even advertizing in Canada where Rx drug advertising is strongly regulated (those adds with the guy who says "It's not me people see, it's my acne" and there's a phone number at the end,hum, guess who's?). They should be sued.
>
> hi. 4 weeks ago or so my severe depression was severe to the point where every hour was hard to stand. no matter what I never wanted to commit suicide, I am not a religeous person and therefor dont have any assumptions for what happens when we die. The only choice for me has been to get better no matter how torturous each day was. But it was so harddd to bare. It certainly wasn't livable at all. I only endured the torture, 'waiting' due to my desire to get better. This depression was caused by a medication called accutane. When I realized it was affecting my mood I stopped taking it but it was too late. And it actually got worse when I stopped the medication. Some of you may have read my story partially before. the 3 days after stopping the accutane things were horrendous. Emotions diminished so much that I had just about no reaction to anything and my heart was constantly pounding. I could look at my fiance's photo on my computer and all I would see is artifacts and pale discolorization. Now that only happens in the morning to a very mild extent. I am more and more able to see her.
>
> After those few completely horrendous says the depression got better gradually. So like many cases of accutane caused depression I thought it would go away. As the two weeks went by things got somewhat better. there were some real up periods where i actually felt i was getting normal. then various horrible down periods. it was no longer getting better. and after maybe 4 weeks being off the accutane I started paxil. The depression was really really bad at that point. It was hard to do anything. Including getting out of bed.
> I felt a bit more at peace those following days. I seemed to get a bit better during that first week of paxil. I doubt it was because the paxil had any effect yet. I assume it was because I was having an up peroid or just the accutane leaving my system. Then the second week things were significantly getting better. I was actually able to talk to my fiance somewhat properly. It was the absolute first day I was actually able to 'talk' to her instead of the usual gibberish. we talk online since we live in different countries right now. Before it was soo hard to type and say anything. I felt soo tired to even lift my fingers sometimes, so unmotivated. That day I was actually able to talk to her. And then the same the next day. It was actually even better. The days seemed to be getting better. Then the next day it was the best yet. I really felt my best during that second week. And the next day I was supossed to go to a theme park and I was actually looking forward to it. My depression was actually really improving and I actually felt a little 'great' that afternoon as I talked with my fiance and it was like I was really going to make a full recovery. I felt so good, how could I not? I was really feeling many emotions. Then the next day it was a little worse but good regardless. and then the next day I was still doing well and talking with my fiance at 5pm. and then at 7pm I suddenly began to feel worseeee. and it lasted. I was feeling quite bad for the next few days. then it got a little better again.
>
> And now I am here. I am feeling not too bad but still very depressed and lacking in emotions, expecially loving ones, severe lack of concentration, ability to think and remember. 19 or so days into the paxil hoping it will work soon. I feel it will, odds are it will but just how much of a recovery can a person make with these anti depressants? Surely the opinion from this forum may be a somewhat biased one. Because all the people who get much better or even fully better surely would be living their lives instead of posting on a forum which deals with issues of still being depressed. But I am still very interested in what you people think.
>
> In clinical studies a person responding from medication is defined as at least 50% improvement in symptoms. And remission I am not sure what that means. A Hamilton Depression Scale score of less than 8? Just how much do people often recover from depression? I was extremely extremely happy before. I couldn't be any happier. Is there a realistic chance for me to feel that again? I hope I will feel how completely perfect my fiance is again. to me she has always been. I 'know' she is. I just cant 'feel' things too much
>
> And regarding major depression. What I am having is probably just a major depressive episode right? As in this episode will end and I will be completely normal in time? And then of course there's that 50% of having another episode. Am I correct on this? That my depression should completely in time go away? While medication will make it better, it will go away on it's own later? And then of course possibly come back?
>
> Please reply. Thank you for reading.
Posted by adamie on July 17, 2001, at 14:44:48
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
Today and yesterday I have been feeling 'slightly' better. Still a very very long way to go but maybe the paxil is starting to work more. I'm hoping this med will be all I need. It's been 22 days on paxil so far which I take before going to sleep.Also I have been taking six 1000mg capsules of salmon oil each day. 2 after each meal. It says it's a good source of fish oil. I hope this is effective in depression. I have read a few articles but I hope it really does work.
Posted by adamie on July 17, 2001, at 21:29:47
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by Janelle on July 14, 2001, at 23:47:11
> YES, you can recover from suicidal depression, adamie. I've been "down" where you have, felt exactly what you have described (not due to Accutane, but just a biochemical imbalance) plus other things like anxiety, tension, obsessive racing thoughts - it is torture.
>
> Ironically, PAXIL was what brought me out of it the first time, and it did take a few weeks for it to work.
>
> I think your chances of recovery are VERY good because you have NOT been depressed before, and your current depression was caused by a medicine (Accutane), NOT a biochemical thing within YOU.
>
> I think someone with your situation can make a FULL recovery these anti-depressants; in fact, I know a few people who had "environmentally" induced depression, went on an a-d, they FULLY recovered, and have not gotten depressed again since.How did the depression for these people go away? They went on anti depressants and these lifted their symptoms at least 50% and then afterwards the depression just kept getting better over various months until they got fully better? Could you please describe a bit how it was for them? I just would like to have an idea of what to expect in the coming months. It has been so hard before but things are a bit better today and yesterday. I hope all I will have to use is paxil. I hope I do make a complete and full recovery. I was so incredibly happy before. I miss everything including my fiance. But I have the hope that at least I will be 'much better' if not fully better. I'll just have to be patient. Thanks for the replies.
> Remission basically means "absence of symptoms" - the symptoms "go away" but do not disappear completely - they kind of go into hiding, dormant (sleep mode) but could (and often do) come back again. That's why many people (myself included) stay on the meds a LONG time.
>
> It does sound like you're having a major depressive episode right, and when it ends, you will be "completely normal." It takes TIME.
>
> So, YES, there sure IS a realistic, a VERY realistic chance for you to feel that good again, and to STAY that good. It sounds to me, and it's only my "guess" based on what you wrote, that you WILL recover COMPLETELY and you will STAY recovered. Good luck.
> -Janelle
Posted by Noa on July 18, 2001, at 11:51:08
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
Hi, Adam. Those statistics are averages/aggregates. It is different for each person.
My personal experience is that I have recovered from a very serious suicidal depression. It has taken time, though, and it hasn't been a straight path all the time.
You must be patient with yourself. That is key, imho. For me, it also involved learning to accept some intermittent depressed moods or days as part of life, and not panicking at every potential "sign" of the depression possibly returning. Intermittent setbacks turned out not to be the catastrophes I feared, and learning to tolerate them really helped in my recovery, because of how debilitating the shame, and anxiety and depression *about* my depression were.
For me, both medication and therapy were essential, as was support including the support I got here.
Give yourself time and patience.
Posted by LyndaK on July 19, 2001, at 3:15:21
In reply to Re: How much can one recover from suicidal depression? » adamie, posted by Noa on July 18, 2001, at 11:51:08
> Hi, Adam. Those statistics are averages/aggregates. It is different for each person.
>
> My personal experience is that I have recovered from a very serious suicidal depression. It has taken time, though, and it hasn't been a straight path all the time.
>
> You must be patient with yourself. That is key, imho. For me, it also involved learning to accept some intermittent depressed moods or days as part of life, and not panicking at every potential "sign" of the depression possibly returning. Intermittent setbacks turned out not to be the catastrophes I feared, and learning to tolerate them really helped in my recovery, because of how debilitating the shame, and anxiety and depression *about* my depression were.
>
> For me, both medication and therapy were essential, as was support including the support I got here.
>
> Give yourself time and patience.
I'm glad to finally see someone acknowledge the importance of psychotherapy. Medications are a GREAT help. They truely address the brain-chemistry-gone-astray. In my case, I was on medication for a number of years before I came to the conclusion that it wasn't "fixing" me. It was relieving some of the symptoms, but there was something else going on as a core problem. I finally found an excellent phsychotherapist who has enlightened me tremendously about my thinking / beliefs about myself / behaviors that trap me in my own unhappiness. I couldn't have made the progress that I have without the meds -- they kept me functioning day by day and allowed me to benefit from my therapy. But the therapy was/is the factor in my recovery that was missing previously.
Posted by Doug_Saving_The_Team on October 26, 2005, at 15:27:01
In reply to How much can one recover from suicidal depression?, posted by adamie on July 14, 2001, at 21:19:50
Adamie,
are you still having problems? I had almost the exact same case as yours in October of 2001, and I still have not achieved a "successful" recovery. My concentration and memory, for example, are not back to pre-accutane levels (as evidenced by poor academic performance despite significant studying).
Doug
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