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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 12:50:50
I am on my third week of daily Klonopin usage and would like to hear from some more experienced users.
Supposedly after six weeks or so I will be "addicted" to it - physically dependent. What does this feel like? Do you start to feel really anxious when a dose wears off like with Xanax? Can you tell you are addicted?
I normally take some in the morning and some in the mid-afternoon. If I am addicted/dependent, will I need some at night as well so there is not too long a period between doses?
Apparently seizures can occur if a benzo is "abruptly discontinued" or not "tapered slowly enough." I have read things like that, but never seen any definitions. What is "abrupt" - no Klonopin for 24 hours? 48 hours? If you normally take say 2 mg a day, if you take 1.5 or 1 for a day does that put you at risk for a seizure, or just for feeling anxious?
I would appreciate any input from long-time users regarding their daily Klonopin experience. I am taking it for social phobia. I am struggling to determine the appropriate dose because I am also in the middle of starting Wellbutrin (starting third week) and I don't know if the Wellbutrin will feel different in a few weeks than it does now, what effect caffeine is having, etc.
Thanks
Posted by Neal on July 22, 2001, at 13:56:10
In reply to Klonopin addiction, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 12:50:50
Joe,
Klonopin is good for social phobia in my opinion. It has a long half-life so that you can take it twice or even just once a day. The problem comes if you want to stop taking it, you must taper very slowly in .25 mg increments over a period of weeks, even months. It depends on how long you've been taking it. Now some people say that they can go down on Klonopin quickly and easily, but they are the exception to the rule, in my opinion. Hope this helps.Neal
Posted by Elizabeth on July 22, 2001, at 15:48:51
In reply to Klonopin addiction, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 12:50:50
> Supposedly after six weeks or so I will be "addicted" to it - physically dependent. What does this feel like? Do you start to feel really anxious when a dose wears off like with Xanax? Can you tell you are addicted?"Addicted" really isn't the right word for whtat you're talking about. But there is a possibility that using Klonopin for too long (how long it will take varies) can lead to pharmacologic dependence. You might experience rebound anxiety as a dose wears off, although it's not as pronounced as it would be with Xanax. You might also have difficulty getting to sleep or wake up in the middle of the night if you don't take a dose at bedtime. (I always found it was more effective if I took it three times a day. Some people can get away with using it only twice a day, tho'.)
> Apparently seizures can occur if a benzo is "abruptly discontinued" or not "tapered slowly enough."
That's an extreme reaction. You shouldn't discontinue Klonopin abruptly, but withdrawal from normal therapeutic doses is unlikely to cause seizures (that's not to say it's impossible, just unlikely).
> What is "abrupt" - no Klonopin for 24 hours? 48 hours?
Depends how long it works for you. Abrupt discontinuation means stopping it altogether without tapering at all.
> If you normally take say 2 mg a day, if you take 1.5 or 1 for a day does that put you at risk for a seizure, or just for feeling anxious?
The latter, if even that.
> I am taking it for social phobia.
That is a legitimate use. I wouldn't worry about withdrawal; if you do ever feel like discontinuing it, just do so very slowly (for example, decreasing your total daily dose by 0.25 mg once a week, less if once a week turns out to be too rapid for you).
As long as it's not causing unacceptable side effects, though, there's no particular reason why you should stop taking the Klonopin. Wellbutrin by itself is unlikely to help with social phobia, but Klonopin is a very good drug for this condition.
> I am struggling to determine the appropriate dose because I am also in the middle of starting Wellbutrin (starting third week) and I don't know if the Wellbutrin will feel different in a few weeks than it does now, what effect caffeine is having, etc.
Wellbutrin can be very jittery at first, and you might need more Klonopin during the first few weeks. This should get better with time.
-elizabeth
Posted by Mitch on July 23, 2001, at 10:30:59
In reply to Klonopin addiction, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 22, 2001, at 12:50:50
Joe,
I wouldn't consider stopping Klonopin use until you get used to the Wellbutrin. Is the Wellbutrin helping?
Posted by Joe Schmoe on July 24, 2001, at 10:23:26
In reply to Re: Klonopin addiction » Joe Schmoe, posted by Mitch on July 23, 2001, at 10:30:59
> I wouldn't consider stopping Klonopin use until you get used to the Wellbutrin.Unfortunately I am now starting to suffer sexual problems from the Klonopin (decreased libido, erectile problems) already. This surprised me as I thought Wellbutrin, with its reputation as a sex enhancer, would prevent this. Klonopin dosage now up to 2 mg a day in two doses, Wellbutrin SR at 300 mg a day in two doses.
> Is the Wellbutrin helping?
I am just finishing my third week on it, and I think my mood is lifting, but of course the Klonopin-caused sexual problems are putting a damper on things so it is hard to tell.
My doc has referred me to a specialist in psychotropic medications whom I will see next week, maybe this new "doc" (actually some kind of nurse that can prescribe meds) will get me where I need to be.
At this point I am beginning to wonder if anyone taking meds can have a good sex life. After my Paxil experience I thought Klonopin would be relatively harmless compared to Paxil in terms of neutering, but it isn't, even when enhanced with Wellbutrin. Unless of course the sexual-boosting effects of the Wellbutrin take more than three weeks to appear. I will just plod along awhile longer and see what the new doc has to say.
I am starting to think it might be better to be socially phobic, med-free, and with a good sex life instead of the med-offered alternatives. All I need to do is find a job where I don't need to interact with people. A tough problem in today's service-oriented economy.
Posted by Mitch on July 24, 2001, at 14:37:34
In reply to Re: Klonopin and sexual problems, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 24, 2001, at 10:23:26
Joe,
Can you tell for *sure* if it is the Klonopin or the Wellbutrin? I mean did you start them both simultanouesly? If you skip a dose of one or the other does it get better-have you tried that to determine which one it is? I had sexual problems with Adderall (along with euphoria/insomnia)for about a week or so and then it went away. I really wonder if the trouble for you is not the meds per se, but the dosages (for both) may just be too HIGH.
Mitch
Posted by Joe Schmoe on July 24, 2001, at 20:55:21
In reply to Re: Klonopin and sexual problems » Joe Schmoe, posted by Mitch on July 24, 2001, at 14:37:34
> Joe,
>
> Can you tell for *sure* if it is the Klonopin or the Wellbutrin?Well, since Wellbutrin is known to cure sexual problems and Klonopin is known to cause them, in fact it is a listed side effect for Klonopin, I guess I don't *know* but it seems pretty likely it is the Klonopin.
> I mean did you start them both simultanouesly?
More or less.
> If you skip a dose of one or the other does it get better-have you tried that to determine which one it is?
I am not going to start skipping doses three weeks into the therapy to see what happens. I am told skipping doses with Klonopin can even be dangerous. However, I had sexual problems this morning and the last dose of either medicine was in the early evening of the night before, so it certainly is not a short-acting effect of either one.
> I had sexual problems with Adderall (along with euphoria/insomnia)for about a week or so and then it went away. I really wonder if the trouble for you is not the meds per se, but the dosages (for both) may just be too HIGH.
Well I have been taking 300 mgs of Wellbutrin SR, which is the minimum listed effective dose, and 1.5 mg/day of Klonopin, which again seems pretty small. I upped it to 2 mg per day once or twice in the past week, including yesterday, and sexual problems began, so it seems likely it is the Klonopin. If that means my Klonopin dosage is too high, then I might as well quit it, since 1.5 mg a day isn't enough for my SP.
I have also read posts from others on this board about Klonopin causing them sexual problems.
Posted by Mitch on July 25, 2001, at 0:35:03
In reply to Re: Klonopin and sexual problems, posted by Joe Schmoe on July 24, 2001, at 20:55:21
Yes, it does sound like the Klonopin-given you upped the dose (of only the K) and it got worse. But if you stop the Klonopin you will need to taper it away slowly or you could have rebound anxiety/panic.
BTW, the 300mg/day of Wellbutrin is for depression not SP, which is an "off label" use for bupropion. Lower dosage could work *more* effectively for a *different* problem (unless you are also in a major depression, as well).Mitch
> > Joe,
> >
> > Can you tell for *sure* if it is the Klonopin or the Wellbutrin?
>
> Well, since Wellbutrin is known to cure sexual problems and Klonopin is known to cause them, in fact it is a listed side effect for Klonopin, I guess I don't *know* but it seems pretty likely it is the Klonopin.
>
> > I mean did you start them both simultanouesly?
>
> More or less.
>
> > If you skip a dose of one or the other does it get better-have you tried that to determine which one it is?
>
> I am not going to start skipping doses three weeks into the therapy to see what happens. I am told skipping doses with Klonopin can even be dangerous. However, I had sexual problems this morning and the last dose of either medicine was in the early evening of the night before, so it certainly is not a short-acting effect of either one.
>
> > I had sexual problems with Adderall (along with euphoria/insomnia)for about a week or so and then it went away. I really wonder if the trouble for you is not the meds per se, but the dosages (for both) may just be too HIGH.
>
> Well I have been taking 300 mgs of Wellbutrin SR, which is the minimum listed effective dose, and 1.5 mg/day of Klonopin, which again seems pretty small. I upped it to 2 mg per day once or twice in the past week, including yesterday, and sexual problems began, so it seems likely it is the Klonopin. If that means my Klonopin dosage is too high, then I might as well quit it, since 1.5 mg a day isn't enough for my SP.
>
> I have also read posts from others on this board about Klonopin causing them sexual problems.
This is the end of the thread.
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