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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by lostsailor on September 16, 2001, at 17:14:24
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by ThatGuyJohn on September 8, 2001, at 11:51:52
Hey, here's a little info. Of the newer anti-depressents, only Wellburerin is really indicated often in the literature. Often, people with bp are given an ad only during a depressive episode and than taken off when it subsides or resolves it self. My doc, and I did the wellbutin/ celexa thing for quite a while, but I am also kept on a mood stabelizer (currently Neurontin)
As for Trazadone, I had a doc once tell me that he would not give to a dog. My shrink prescribes it often for sleep and I used it for a year , but could no longer tolerate the "hangover" I would have in the morning. I tried a bunch of meds for insomnia and found that benadryl worked the best. I told him that and wrote a script for aterax (both aterax and visteral are the same a benadral and are give to some for anxiety)so my insurence would cover the cost. Hope this was a help! In Peace, ~Tony> Hey, thanks for that link, Sal. I am very new to this site, and just beginning to get a sense of the resources available here.
>
> I kinda questioned the logic of taking a straight anti-d when I have that tendency to swing up. But my best friend's little brother was treated with an activating drug for his attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. This kid was a bundle of energy to begin with -- but on the meds he actually evened out.
>
> And I had the same immediate, really good response to Wellbutrin that the doc describes. In less than a week, I felt fantastic. I chalked it up to a placebo response then. Uh-oh... :-)
>
> So, BPs have a uniquely screwy chemistry, different from depressives? I don't know a lot about biochemistry, but am I right in drawing that conclusion? (And "screwy" probably isn't a diagnostic term, right?)
>
> I am sober, no recreational drugs or booze for 9 years, but a pal gave me a couple Klonopin for a very long flight. And it did nothing to sedate me. Maybe I'll just down a handful of speed next time, and I'll be out like a light.
>
> JUST KIDDING!
Posted by Carter on December 14, 2001, at 14:50:40
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by lostsailor on September 16, 2001, at 17:14:24
> Hey, here's a little info. Of the newer anti-depressents, only Wellburerin is really indicated often in the literature. Often, people with bp are given an ad only during a depressive episode and than taken off when it subsides or resolves it self. My doc, and I did the wellbutin/ celexa thing for quite a while, but I am also kept on a mood stabelizer (currently Neurontin)
> As for Trazadone, I had a doc once tell me that he would not give to a dog. My shrink prescribes it often for sleep and I used it for a year , but could no longer tolerate the "hangover" I would have in the morning. I tried a bunch of meds for insomnia and found that benadryl worked the best. I told him that and wrote a script for aterax (both aterax and visteral are the same a benadral and are give to some for anxiety)so my insurence would cover the cost. Hope this was a help! In Peace, ~Tony
>
> > Hey, thanks for that link, Sal. I am very new to this site, and just beginning to get a sense of the resources available here.
> >
> > I kinda questioned the logic of taking a straight anti-d when I have that tendency to swing up. But my best friend's little brother was treated with an activating drug for his attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. This kid was a bundle of energy to begin with -- but on the meds he actually evened out.
> >
> > And I had the same immediate, really good response to Wellbutrin that the doc describes. In less than a week, I felt fantastic. I chalked it up to a placebo response then. Uh-oh... :-)
> >
> > So, BPs have a uniquely screwy chemistry, different from depressives? I don't know a lot about biochemistry, but am I right in drawing that conclusion? (And "screwy" probably isn't a diagnostic term, right?)
> >
> > I am sober, no recreational drugs or booze for 9 years, but a pal gave me a couple Klonopin for a very long flight. And it did nothing to sedate me. Maybe I'll just down a handful of speed next time, and I'll be out like a light.
> >
> > JUST KIDDING!Hi to who ever reads this. This is the first time I have offered any of my own experience about my psychosis...cyclothymia, just like the rest. First off let me say that I take a very humorous approach to myself. I mean I am serious, but my friends and refer to my meds as my "crazy pills" and when I have a therapy appointment, it's an appointment with my "crazy doctor." Anyway, I have been actively treated for about a year and a half (both with medications and psyhcotherapy). And I looked at this site several times. My psychiatrist put me on Wellbutrin AND Zyprexa (to even me out fast), I was in a not so good place. The wellbutrin has and continues to work for me. However, a word of caution about Zyprexa, if you take Zy be prepared to have all of your energy zapped out. It really muted my personality. When I told my dr. this, we went down from 5mg to 2.5mg. I also gained about 15 pounds with the Zyprexa...which I was happy about. Well when I came off of the zyprexa, just two months later, I had no idea of the side effects that would ensue. I became nauseated...all the time. I felt like crap. I had no idea that I would have withdrawl from it. My 15 lbs. dropped right back off...quickly. I was worried about it so I tried to research on the net, but like this subject all together there is little information out there. After I 'recovered' from that, my doc wanted me to go on a mood stabilizer...Depakote. When she told me about it she highlighted the side effects and the fact that I would have to have my blood checked regularly to ensure it wasn't damaging my liver. That scared the crap out me...not the part about having my blood checked...burning out my liver. So I made a proposal..."Let's see how things go with just the wellbutrin for a while and we'll go from there." She agreed and until about June I was only on Wellbutrin. Then I noticed my moods changing more and my irritability coming out. I even snapped at the boss a couple of times. Luckily for me, he's a rapid cycling unipolar and completely understood. So I called my doc. and she called in the Depakote for me. I've been taking it ever since and I have to say it has worked pretty well. I do have my occasional mood, but for the most part I am level. Now the down side of the Depakot is it really makes me drowsy. It's pretty powerful. I take it at night before bed (as prescribed) and I sometimes still have a tough time getting up...but I don't have that 'hung-over' feeling. It's just sleepy. A hint to anyone taking it, or about to...I try to take it early in the evening. If I am in for the evening I usually take it around 8:00. But I am sure it will react with most of us differently. Sorry that was so long. Good luck to all. Just one more thing. To those of you who only let your closest friends in on your secret; isn't it interesting to hear how people talk about others who aren't so guarded? I have been in the company of people who have said, in a group, things like "I think she needs to have her medication adjusted." Or "He needs to have his dosage pumped up." All the while standing right beside them is one such individual taking said medications. Just a side thought.
Posted by Mitch on December 14, 2001, at 19:53:56
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Carter on December 14, 2001, at 14:50:40
> Hi to who ever reads this. This is the first time I have offered any of my own experience about my psychosis...cyclothymia, just like the rest. First off let me say that I take a very humorous approach to myself. I mean I am serious, but my friends and refer to my meds as my "crazy pills" and when I have a therapy appointment, it's an appointment with my "crazy doctor." Anyway, I have been actively treated for about a year and a half (both with medications and psyhcotherapy). And I looked at this site several times. My psychiatrist put me on Wellbutrin AND Zyprexa (to even me out fast), I was in a not so good place. The wellbutrin has and continues to work for me. However, a word of caution about Zyprexa, if you take Zy be prepared to have all of your energy zapped out. It really muted my personality. When I told my dr. this, we went down from 5mg to 2.5mg. I also gained about 15 pounds with the Zyprexa...which I was happy about. Well when I came off of the zyprexa, just two months later, I had no idea of the side effects that would ensue. I became nauseated...all the time. I felt like crap. I had no idea that I would have withdrawl from it. My 15 lbs. dropped right back off...quickly. I was worried about it so I tried to research on the net, but like this subject all together there is little information out there. After I 'recovered' from that, my doc wanted me to go on a mood stabilizer...Depakote. When she told me about it she highlighted the side effects and the fact that I would have to have my blood checked regularly to ensure it wasn't damaging my liver. That scared the crap out me...not the part about having my blood checked...burning out my liver. So I made a proposal..."Let's see how things go with just the wellbutrin for a while and we'll go from there." She agreed and until about June I was only on Wellbutrin. Then I noticed my moods changing more and my irritability coming out. I even snapped at the boss a couple of times. Luckily for me, he's a rapid cycling unipolar and completely understood. So I called my doc. and she called in the Depakote for me. I've been taking it ever since and I have to say it has worked pretty well. I do have my occasional mood, but for the most part I am level. Now the down side of the Depakot is it really makes me drowsy. It's pretty powerful. I take it at night before bed (as prescribed) and I sometimes still have a tough time getting up...but I don't have that 'hung-over' feeling. It's just sleepy. A hint to anyone taking it, or about to...I try to take it early in the evening. If I am in for the evening I usually take it around 8:00. But I am sure it will react with most of us differently. Sorry that was so long. Good luck to all. Just one more thing. To those of you who only let your closest friends in on your secret; isn't it interesting to hear how people talk about others who aren't so guarded? I have been in the company of people who have said, in a group, things like "I think she needs to have her medication adjusted." Or "He needs to have his dosage pumped up." All the while standing right beside them is one such individual taking said medications. Just a side thought.
Hi Carter,
The bizarro thing I can add is I am bipolarII and so is my BOSS (and a couple of other coworkers-it seems that BP folks coalesce somehow)! Everybody knows about my boss's meds/troubles, but I haven't told anyone where I work. You are right-once people in a workgroup know about it they start ascribing any change as something related to meds not working, different meds, skipping meds, etc. I just don't want to be treated as a chemical abstraction.
Now I am on Neurontin/Klonopin/Wellbutrin/Celexa and it thus far has been the best combo for me. Depakote seems to aggravate depression. Lithium is OK, but it dulls my cognitive functioning too much. I find that the Wellbutrin *can* induce some irritability-but in my case I just become more assertive and don't take crap.
Mitch
Posted by Carter on December 17, 2001, at 8:01:24
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » Carter, posted by Mitch on December 14, 2001, at 19:53:56
> > Hi to who ever reads this. This is the first time I have offered any of my own experience about my psychosis...cyclothymia, just like the rest. First off let me say that I take a very humorous approach to myself. I mean I am serious, but my friends and refer to my meds as my "crazy pills" and when I have a therapy appointment, it's an appointment with my "crazy doctor." Anyway, I have been actively treated for about a year and a half (both with medications and psyhcotherapy). And I looked at this site several times. My psychiatrist put me on Wellbutrin AND Zyprexa (to even me out fast), I was in a not so good place. The wellbutrin has and continues to work for me. However, a word of caution about Zyprexa, if you take Zy be prepared to have all of your energy zapped out. It really muted my personality. When I told my dr. this, we went down from 5mg to 2.5mg. I also gained about 15 pounds with the Zyprexa...which I was happy about. Well when I came off of the zyprexa, just two months later, I had no idea of the side effects that would ensue. I became nauseated...all the time. I felt like crap. I had no idea that I would have withdrawl from it. My 15 lbs. dropped right back off...quickly. I was worried about it so I tried to research on the net, but like this subject all together there is little information out there. After I 'recovered' from that, my doc wanted me to go on a mood stabilizer...Depakote. When she told me about it she highlighted the side effects and the fact that I would have to have my blood checked regularly to ensure it wasn't damaging my liver. That scared the crap out me...not the part about having my blood checked...burning out my liver. So I made a proposal..."Let's see how things go with just the wellbutrin for a while and we'll go from there." She agreed and until about June I was only on Wellbutrin. Then I noticed my moods changing more and my irritability coming out. I even snapped at the boss a couple of times. Luckily for me, he's a rapid cycling unipolar and completely understood. So I called my doc. and she called in the Depakote for me. I've been taking it ever since and I have to say it has worked pretty well. I do have my occasional mood, but for the most part I am level. Now the down side of the Depakot is it really makes me drowsy. It's pretty powerful. I take it at night before bed (as prescribed) and I sometimes still have a tough time getting up...but I don't have that 'hung-over' feeling. It's just sleepy. A hint to anyone taking it, or about to...I try to take it early in the evening. If I am in for the evening I usually take it around 8:00. But I am sure it will react with most of us differently. Sorry that was so long. Good luck to all. Just one more thing. To those of you who only let your closest friends in on your secret; isn't it interesting to hear how people talk about others who aren't so guarded? I have been in the company of people who have said, in a group, things like "I think she needs to have her medication adjusted." Or "He needs to have his dosage pumped up." All the while standing right beside them is one such individual taking said medications. Just a side thought.
>
> Hi Carter,
>
> The bizarro thing I can add is I am bipolarII and so is my BOSS (and a couple of other coworkers-it seems that BP folks coalesce somehow)! Everybody knows about my boss's meds/troubles, but I haven't told anyone where I work. You are right-once people in a workgroup know about it they start ascribing any change as something related to meds not working, different meds, skipping meds, etc. I just don't want to be treated as a chemical abstraction.
>
> Now I am on Neurontin/Klonopin/Wellbutrin/Celexa and it thus far has been the best combo for me. Depakote seems to aggravate depression. Lithium is OK, but it dulls my cognitive functioning too much. I find that the Wellbutrin *can* induce some irritability-but in my case I just become more assertive and don't take crap.
>
> MitchHey Mitch.
I wasn't sure if anyon would respond. The responses are so sparse. Thanks for giving me more information about WB. Another thing that I forgot to mention about Zyprexa...it really affected my cognitive abilities. I like to think that I am a well educated guy and an eloquent speaker. My major in college was communications and I pride myself on how well I communicate; I also work in the field. Well Zyprexa slapped that right out of me. In conversations with my boss (we actually became really good friends outside the office too) I was unable to complete my thoughts. I couldn't retrieve words from my memory. That was bad b/c at the time my job depended upon my being able to explain a semi-complicated subject matter accurately in a way that it was easily understood by the people I was talking to. Luckily I was able to keep that under control, but in my personal life...it really sucked. I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
Posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 9:54:47
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Carter on December 17, 2001, at 8:01:24
> I wasn't sure if anyon would respond. The responses are so sparse. Thanks for giving me more information about WB. Another thing that I forgot to mention about Zyprexa...it really affected my cognitive abilities. I like to think that I am a well educated guy and an eloquent speaker. My major in college was communications and I pride myself on how well I communicate; I also work in the field. Well Zyprexa slapped that right out of me. In conversations with my boss (we actually became really good friends outside the office too) I was unable to complete my thoughts. I couldn't retrieve words from my memory. That was bad b/c at the time my job depended upon my being able to explain a semi-complicated subject matter accurately in a way that it was easily understood by the people I was talking to. Luckily I was able to keep that under control, but in my personal life...it really sucked. I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
I also have some major attentional problems and have been diagnosed with adult ADHD. Most mood stabilizers (esp. at higher doses) tend to aggravate cognitive dysfunction. Depakote and Lithium can really do me in. I found that Neurontin, Tegretol, and Trileptal gave me the fewest problems. In fact, Neurontin seems to *improve* my attention and cognitive abilities (as long as I keep the dose below 900mg/day).
As far as Zyprexa goes, I understand it is quite sedative and has a quite lengthy half-life. That may be the main problem with it(I haven't tried that particular one). I don't like to take antipsychotics for non-psychotic symptoms because of the risk of tardive dystonia/dyskinesia. However, I am very med-sensitive and a lot of other people will experience little problem with that and could benefit from them and I wouldn't want to discourage their use. FWIW, I found that Risperdal didn't cause as much trouble as some of the other AP's. When I was taking it-I took it only at bedtime, but it had benefits that extended through the next day without being too sedating. You might ask your doc about a flip to low-dose Risperdal from the Zyprexa for a while to see how that does instead.
Mitch
Posted by Carter on December 17, 2001, at 14:20:33
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Carter, posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 9:54:47
> > I wasn't sure if anyon would respond. The responses are so sparse. Thanks for giving me more information about WB. Another thing that I forgot to mention about Zyprexa...it really affected my cognitive abilities. I like to think that I am a well educated guy and an eloquent speaker. My major in college was communications and I pride myself on how well I communicate; I also work in the field. Well Zyprexa slapped that right out of me. In conversations with my boss (we actually became really good friends outside the office too) I was unable to complete my thoughts. I couldn't retrieve words from my memory. That was bad b/c at the time my job depended upon my being able to explain a semi-complicated subject matter accurately in a way that it was easily understood by the people I was talking to. Luckily I was able to keep that under control, but in my personal life...it really sucked. I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
>
> I also have some major attentional problems and have been diagnosed with adult ADHD. Most mood stabilizers (esp. at higher doses) tend to aggravate cognitive dysfunction. Depakote and Lithium can really do me in. I found that Neurontin, Tegretol, and Trileptal gave me the fewest problems. In fact, Neurontin seems to *improve* my attention and cognitive abilities (as long as I keep the dose below 900mg/day).
>
> As far as Zyprexa goes, I understand it is quite sedative and has a quite lengthy half-life. That may be the main problem with it(I haven't tried that particular one). I don't like to take antipsychotics for non-psychotic symptoms because of the risk of tardive dystonia/dyskinesia. However, I am very med-sensitive and a lot of other people will experience little problem with that and could benefit from them and I wouldn't want to discourage their use. FWIW, I found that Risperdal didn't cause as much trouble as some of the other AP's. When I was taking it-I took it only at bedtime, but it had benefits that extended through the next day without being too sedating. You might ask your doc about a flip to low-dose Risperdal from the Zyprexa for a while to see how that does instead.
>
> Mitch
I am no longer on the Zyprexa, but I hope others read this in order to have some information should they experience the same symptoms. As for my meds now, I am maxed out on Wellbutrin, 400 mg a day. And the Depkote, from what I understand, is low at 500 mg a day.I recently moved and had to leave both my Psychiatrist and my therapist. I really liked them both. We all worked well together. So now I am about to have my first appointment with a new Psychiatrist. I am a little nervous about it. And even more nervous about finding a therapist that fits. I haven't been to a therapy session in about 3 months and I can tell. The psycho therapy is good for me.
Have you ever had to make a switch with your psychiatrist or therapist? Or both? I didn't even ask if you see a therapist. Have you any words of advice in this matter?
~PS:
We had a holiday luncheon at the office today that I Organized and somehow the subject of psychology came up and once again "we" were slighted. I don't know why, but people's insensivity and ignorance still take me a little by surprise.
Posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 23:32:25
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems, posted by Carter on December 17, 2001, at 14:20:33
> I am no longer on the Zyprexa, but I hope others read this in order to have some information should they experience the same symptoms. As for my meds now, I am maxed out on Wellbutrin, 400 mg a day. And the Depkote, from what I understand, is low at 500 mg a day.
>
> I recently moved and had to leave both my Psychiatrist and my therapist. I really liked them both. We all worked well together. So now I am about to have my first appointment with a new Psychiatrist. I am a little nervous about it. And even more nervous about finding a therapist that fits. I haven't been to a therapy session in about 3 months and I can tell. The psycho therapy is good for me.
>
> Have you ever had to make a switch with your psychiatrist or therapist? Or both? I didn't even ask if you see a therapist. Have you any words of advice in this matter?I saw the same therapist/pdoc for almost 20 years. I continued to travel to make appointments after I moved. Then all the new mood-stabilizing anticonvulsants came onto the scene in recent years and I wanted to experiment and my existing pdoc didn't like polypharmacy and "off-label" prescribing (for *some* good reasons), so I decided to start the experimentation with newer pdocs (no hard feelings toward my original doctor/therapist though). Overall, it was the right decision to make. I wouldn't get really uptight about switching pdocs, unless of course a lot of cash and wasted time is riding on it. The best advice is to follow your gut instincts. If you leave the initial session (see if you can get a free first session), and feel deeply that something's not clicking, just see someone else, don't put yourself through a bunch of crap you don't have to.
>
> ~PS:
> We had a holiday luncheon at the office today that I Organized and somehow the subject of psychology came up and once again "we" were slighted. I don't know why, but people's insensivity and ignorance still take me a little by surprise.That's why I don't discuss that stuff with my coworkers. This makes it tougher to make friends with your coworkers, but hey-if they don't bring up your behaviour and have accurate insight into your problems and acknowledge it to you, then they don't deserve to have that personal knowledge in my opinion (if they can't figure it out-they probably will not understand it anyways).
Mitch
Posted by S. Belmont on December 18, 2001, at 23:50:10
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Carter on December 17, 2001, at 8:01:24
Hi everyone. I was just recently diagnosed as cyclothymic, and I swear I have to be ADD also (although the clinician says all the ADD symptoms are part of cyclothymia). I just started taking wellbutrin 5 months ago and like some of you have noticed irratibility. Any advice you might have for a newbie would be greatly appreciated. Might I also add that its great to finally have people to talk to who have heard of this. So many ppl ask "whats that?" then i have to explain. Its quite a hassle. Thanks!
Posted by Carter on December 19, 2001, at 9:19:44
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by S. Belmont on December 18, 2001, at 23:50:10
> Hi everyone. I was just recently diagnosed as cyclothymic, and I swear I have to be ADD also (although the clinician says all the ADD symptoms are part of cyclothymia). I just started taking wellbutrin 5 months ago and like some of you have noticed irratibility. Any advice you might have for a newbie would be greatly appreciated. Might I also add that its great to finally have people to talk to who have heard of this. So many ppl ask "whats that?" then i have to explain. Its quite a hassle. Thanks!
Hi Belmont!
I can't help you with the Wellbutrin irritability because it works for me. Or my mood stabilizer, Depakote, counters it. Have you talked with your psyst. about your side effects? It's a good idea to.
Now about having to explain to others...it's tough...I usually start by explaining that there are steps, Bi Polar I, Bi Polar II, and Cyclothymia. But you have to watch it. Some people really don't know how to react the minute you say bi polar. But don't feel bad about it, they are just not educated about the subject. I wasn't until I started therapy and such. The very best thing you can do is arm yourself with knowledge. And don't take what you do find as the "written in stone" truth. Not all websites are accurate. But I have found that in searching for info, I have ben successful when looking up bi polar. It's usually in there somewhere.
A word of caution: be careful who you tell. The only people I have told about myself are family and a handful of close friends.
I wonder, statistics say that in men this often develops in the mid to late twenties. I was 26 when I was diagnosed. Anyone else in their twenties?
Posted by Mitch on December 19, 2001, at 9:20:51
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by S. Belmont on December 18, 2001, at 23:50:10
> Hi everyone. I was just recently diagnosed as cyclothymic, and I swear I have to be ADD also (although the clinician says all the ADD symptoms are part of cyclothymia). I just started taking wellbutrin 5 months ago and like some of you have noticed irratibility. Any advice you might have for a newbie would be greatly appreciated. Might I also add that its great to finally have people to talk to who have heard of this. So many ppl ask "whats that?" then i have to explain. Its quite a hassle. Thanks!
Hi,
Is the Wellbutrin the only med you are on? If it otherwise works ok you may need to add a little mood stabilizer and that should decrease irritability. Probably the most tolerable ones would be either a low-dose of Neurontin or Depakote. Certain "types" of ADD can benefit from "mood stabilizers" anyhow.
Mitch
Posted by S. Belmont on December 21, 2001, at 22:38:31
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » S. Belmont, posted by Mitch on December 19, 2001, at 9:20:51
mitch, yes its the only thing i'm on. for some reason i thought that it was some kind of mood stabalizer. but like i said im new so i dont really know. i find that when it diesnt work so well if i back off and lower my dosage for about a week then go back to my normal dose it works like a charm. anyone else notice this?
Posted by Mitch on December 22, 2001, at 9:49:45
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by S. Belmont on December 21, 2001, at 22:38:31
> mitch, yes its the only thing i'm on. for some reason i thought that it was some kind of mood stabalizer. but like i said im new so i dont really know. i find that when it diesnt work so well if i back off and lower my dosage for about a week then go back to my normal dose it works like a charm. anyone else notice this?
s.b.,
That is interesting that you are diagnosed as cyclothymic and only on an antidepressant. As far as the WB goes I think it is more of a psychostimulant than an antidepressant. It is a phenylethylamine-a class of chemicals which amphetamines belong to (I think). It's sister drug Tenuate (diethylpropion) is a Sch. IV controlled substance and is used for weight loss. Given all of that-it makes sense that you are probably building a "tolerance" to its stimulating qualities. If you back off the dose you lose a little tolerance to that, and when stepping the dose back up you re-experience the stimulating qualities of it. I am not sure if that is good or bad. Some might find that indicative of a tendency to abuse stimulants. I noticed some "start-up" mild euphoria when I started taking Adderall. But, it lasted only about three days or so and was associated with insomnia. Then it went away and I was just clear-headed and focused-with no cycling. I didn't feel a need to increase dose after I "adjusted" to it. I did "miss" that mild euphoria a little, but my attentive improvement was so dramatic that the low-dose I was taking (5mg) felt quite adequate for me. The problem I have with stims and stim-like AD's, however, is they tend to aggravate my GAD/OCD-like hyperfocusing at times and worsen ruminations. So, what do you do when your attention is generally wiped out, but if you take a stim you wind up focusing too much on the wrong things??
Mitch
Posted by manowar on December 24, 2001, at 10:26:16
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers » S. Belmont, posted by Mitch on December 22, 2001, at 9:49:45
Hi,
I'm diagnosed with Cyclothymia, and the only "mood stabilizer" that has worked for me has been Klonipin. Everything else I've ever tried has given me terrible side effects.
Posted by Raizelle on March 3, 2002, at 3:19:42
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by manowar on December 24, 2001, at 10:26:16
Hey, I have recently been diagnosed as having bipolar II, though I kinda disagree and think I just have cyclothymia. My psychiatrist put me on 750 mg of depakote and said that it was real small dosage, I just started taking it and was curious about other people's experience with it.My psychiatrist wont put me on an anti-depressant for now cuz shes scared of me going manic. Personally, I think that when I'm manic I'm not that manic and I do great things, even if i don't manage to do them for real long periods of time...but that's because I start going down again. Is there anyway to keep highs without having lows? I think this forum is a great idea and don't know if anyone still reads this. I know this post is a little long winded...so I hope you all forgive me. Thanx.;)
Posted by Ritch on March 3, 2002, at 10:53:00
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Raizelle on March 3, 2002, at 3:19:42
> Hey, I have recently been diagnosed as having bipolar II, though I kinda disagree and think I just have cyclothymia. My psychiatrist put me on 750 mg of depakote and said that it was real small dosage, I just started taking it and was curious about other people's experience with it.My psychiatrist wont put me on an anti-depressant for now cuz shes scared of me going manic. Personally, I think that when I'm manic I'm not that manic and I do great things, even if i don't manage to do them for real long periods of time...but that's because I start going down again. Is there anyway to keep highs without having lows? I think this forum is a great idea and don't know if anyone still reads this. I know this post is a little long winded...so I hope you all forgive me. Thanx.;)
Hi,I don't think there is much chance of keeping the "highs" without the "lows". I've tried that in the past and it didn't work :-)
It is interesting that your psych will not prescribe *any* antidepressants for you. Have you taken any antidepressants before? Just wondering if they made you "hypomanic", hence your BPII diagnosis (that's my dx, too). By definition you need to have had at least one major depressive episode. If you think you are really cyclothymic-then you haven't had a major depressive episode (at least two weeks straight of several major symptoms). Depakote is used a lot. I've taken it before, still have some around. 750mg is probably an "average" dose. People with true cyclothymia find it works well at doses that help people for migraines (125mg-500mg/day). I never needed more than 500mg/day to keep hypomania away. Your pdoc is generally right that antidepressants aggravate the condition (they intensify the peaks/troughs in my cycling). However, I haven't heard of many BP'ers that can get by on them alone *all* the time. Let us know how it goes.good luck,
Mitch
Posted by JMO on March 7, 2002, at 13:04:12
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Carter, posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 9:54:47
I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
mitch-
i'm in the southeast as well and recently diagnosed. i have an app't next week for a review of meds. i could really use some help!
Posted by Ritch on March 7, 2002, at 13:48:40
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Mitch, posted by JMO on March 7, 2002, at 13:04:12
> I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
>
> mitch-
>
> i'm in the southeast as well and recently diagnosed. i have an app't next week for a review of meds. i could really use some help!
Hi, I actually live in the Ozarks. But I have lived in Arkansas for many years (so that technically makes me a Southerner of sorts). I am not into posting email addresses and the like-but if you got any med questions or information you are certainly welcome to post and I would be glad to help if I can. Also, others might find the information useful.Mitch
Posted by Carter on March 8, 2002, at 8:29:58
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » JMO, posted by Ritch on March 7, 2002, at 13:48:40
> > I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
> >
> > mitch-
> >
> > i'm in the southeast as well and recently diagnosed. i have an app't next week for a review of meds. i could really use some help!
>
>
> Hi, I actually live in the Ozarks. But I have lived in Arkansas for many years (so that technically makes me a Southerner of sorts). I am not into posting email addresses and the like-but if you got any med questions or information you are certainly welcome to post and I would be glad to help if I can. Also, others might find the information useful.
>
> MitchHi,
This is Carter and I just wanted to say that I am still checking the site too. And like Mitch I am more than happy to help if I can.
~Carter
Posted by JMO on March 8, 2002, at 9:21:14
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems, posted by Carter on March 8, 2002, at 8:29:58
> > > I'd like to ask this question, and if you don't want to answer I COMPLETELY understand, but I live in Southeastern United States. What about you? Not that it really matters. I just thought that it may help to establish dialog. I think you can never have too many people to talk to about our experiences.
> > >
> > > mitch-
> > >
> > > i'm in the southeast as well and recently diagnosed. i have an app't next week for a review of meds. i could really use some help!
> >
> >
> > Hi, I actually live in the Ozarks. But I have lived in Arkansas for many years (so that technically makes me a Southerner of sorts). I am not into posting email addresses and the like-but if you got any med questions or information you are certainly welcome to post and I would be glad to help if I can. Also, others might find the information useful.
> >
> > Mitch
>
> Hi,
>
> This is Carter and I just wanted to say that I am still checking the site too. And like Mitch I am more than happy to help if I can.
>
> ~Carter
thanks guys, i'm sure i'll have many questions after next week's app't. i'll be sure to keep you posted.
Posted by bluemariano on March 17, 2002, at 8:15:21
In reply to Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by andrewb on August 7, 1999, at 10:33:51
Hello, I experience exactly what you described and here I am on the internet hoping to discover what my diagnosis is. After a full course of all the heavy meds for manic-depression my doctor discontinued them. I assumed he didn't think I was manic-depressive any longer but actually he re-diagnosed me as cyclothymic. Now, when I have a hypomanic phase (and I do rapid cycling) I take 300 MG of lithium in the form of lithobid which is easier on my stomache and still take a small dose of prozac, 5 MG. Whichever disorder you or I have as a diagnosis, to flip from up to down so frequently is disconcerting. I had such a bad bout recently that I took a medical leave from work and haven't returned in 5 months...no stabilization. I also find that my hormonal cycles affect my cyclothymia. God Bless! Cynthia
Posted by Sarena on March 23, 2002, at 11:37:12
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by Sean on August 7, 1999, at 13:51:22
Hi, I'm new to this message board and am mildly unsure as to what it is all about. I stumbled upon it in the process of finding information on cyclothymia, which I suspect I have, but am unsure. I'm looking for some information in determining if I have cyclothymia or not, and how (and if) it can be treated without therepy or medication. I'm also looking for other individuals who could share their experiences with this with me. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 24, 2002, at 15:26:40
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Sarena on March 23, 2002, at 11:37:12
Hi Sarena and Welcome to the Babblers! Perhaps a good place to start would be for you to describe your symptoms to this forum. You'd probably get quite a few responses from those who are cyclothymic comparing notes of symptoms. You could also do a search on the top of this page and type in cyclothy* (the asterisk is important to pick up all forms of cyclothymia, thymic, etc.), however, there's a tendency to wander off topic into other subjects so you may get alot more info than you want (but it's always enlightening).
You could also just to a plain old web search (i.e., www.google.com and type in cyclothymia). But again, try starting a new thread and pose the question. It could take a little while to get a response because new threads appear at the bottom of the list and are sometimes overlooked for a few days. You also might need to ask a few times. Don't be hurt, it just usually works that way when new and posting a new thread. - Barbara
Posted by Kimberly2 on March 27, 2002, at 22:46:06
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Carter, posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 9:54:47
Hi ~ this is my first visit to a searchboard of any kind -- but I was searching the internet for any information related to Zyprexa being used in conjunction with Concerta for ADHD -- and was directed here.
So . . . . my 11 year old son was just prescribed Zyprexa to assist with behaviors associated with ADHD. He is in 5th grade, has an IQ of 156 -- but often exhibits the behaviors of a child much younger than his age. In addition, he has ADHD. For quite awhile I resisted using medication to treat him, but was convinced that a trial of medication was worth a try. It was successful.
Anyway -- I'm rambling (I do that when I'm nervous!) -- the reason I came to search on Zyprexa was because the information sheet that came with the prescription described it as an "antipsychotic" medication, used most commonly for schizophrenia -- but my child has not been diagnosed with these illnesses -- so I'm confused.
Has anyone ever heard of Zyprexa being used for purposes of ADHD??? Or have you or anyone you've known used it??
I would greatly appreciate any responses!!
Thanks~
Kimberly2
Posted by fiona on March 28, 2002, at 15:54:54
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by Sarena on March 23, 2002, at 11:37:12
> Hi, I'm new to this message board and am mildly unsure as to what it is all about. I stumbled upon it in the process of finding information on cyclothymia, which I suspect I have, but am unsure. I'm looking for some information in determining if I have cyclothymia or not, and how (and if) it can be treated without therepy or medication. I'm also looking for other individuals who could share their experiences with this with me. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Serena,
I have recently been diagnosed with cyclothymia, and I can tell you I'm as confused as the rest! I have found that this message board has been a Godsend, just to know that I am not by myself out there! If you would like to know about my symptoms etc I'd be more than happy to tell you, as I know how difficult things can be and if I can help in any way I will try. I would suggest you talk to your doctor about this too, mine has been very helpful, but I know that they are not all like that.
Fiona
Posted by Sarena on March 28, 2002, at 20:04:56
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers, posted by fiona on March 28, 2002, at 15:54:54
> > Hi, I'm new to this message board and am mildly unsure as to what it is all about. I stumbled upon it in the process of finding information on cyclothymia, which I suspect I have, but am unsure. I'm looking for some information in determining if I have cyclothymia or not, and how (and if) it can be treated without therepy or medication. I'm also looking for other individuals who could share their experiences with this with me. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Hi Serena,
> I have recently been diagnosed with cyclothymia, and I can tell you I'm as confused as the rest! I have found that this message board has been a Godsend, just to know that I am not by myself out there! If you would like to know about my symptoms etc I'd be more than happy to tell you, as I know how difficult things can be and if I can help in any way I will try. I would suggest you talk to your doctor about this too, mine has been very helpful, but I know that they are not all like that.
> Fiona
Yes, I'd be glad to hear about your symptoms and the like. I haven't seen any doctors or really discussed this with anyone, so that would be most helpful. If you would like to e-mail me instead of posting, my address is QyeenSugarX@aol.com. Thanks...-Sarena
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