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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 18:20:03
I just wanted to let others know about my recent experience. It may in no way be relevant for others but who knows, so I'm adding it.
I've been one of the worse people to stop Luvox & Paxil. I felt awful when I stopped Luvox though I did it over 3 months. It was a nightmare. A few years later when I attempted to go off Paxil, it felt worse. I spent most of the summer in bed wishing I was dead. Even a year later, I felt strange & continued to have annoying (at this point) brain zaps, sudden vertigo, especially when turning my head, more buzzing & ringing in my ears than before, & a genral whooshey head feeling. I ended up going back on 10 mg along with my other meds to hold the symptoms down to a manageable level.
But I always hated using Paxil & wanted off it. I don't mind my Celexa at all. Three days ago, I ran out of my Paxil & thought I could get by for one day before I see my doctor for a refill. I knew I'd suffer but it was only one day (it had happened before so I knew what it would feel like).
The thing is it didn't happen. I was surprised & thought that I'd try 2 days to see if there was a return of my old symptoms. Nothing. Now it's three days & I feel no different. No horrible rebound withdrawal symtoms like before- even when I stopped at around 1 mg before. Why?
I thought 'what was different?' & the only thing different is I'm taking adrafinil (Provigil's cousin). Adrafinil is supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & maybe that's how it works with SSRI stoppage. Every other instance of ever tapering my dose down brouht on the withdrawal/discontinuation symptoms immediately. I can't find any other explanation for the difference except the adrafinil.
Anyone else taking Provigil or adrafinil that's stopped any SSRIs noticed the same thing? I'd be curious to learn more. There may be a treatment for the withdrawal symptoms many have to endure!
Posted by Bob on February 13, 2002, at 18:25:14
In reply to Stopping SSRIs - An Interesting Thing Happened, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 18:20:03
Are you taking Celexa currently, or not? If you are, it could very well be the Celexa that has protected you any remaining withdrawal effects of Paxil. If you're not currently taking it, then obviously this is incorrect.
I'm not refuting your provigil idea though, as God only knows with this stuff.
Posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 18:42:32
In reply to Re: Stopping SSRIs - An Interesting Thing Happened » IsoM, posted by Bob on February 13, 2002, at 18:25:14
I'm taking Celexa now too but have tried in the past to stop Paxil while still taking Celexa. Who knows though? I may still feel the discontinuation symptoms later. But something's definitely different & I'm curious to know. That's why I'd love to hear others' responses.
On the other hand, even if it is the adrafinil, it may only be a fluke that works for me like that. I've been scientifically trained to look at all results with great skeptism even if feeling optimistic. So many variables can affect results.
Posted by Bob on February 13, 2002, at 21:20:12
In reply to Re: Stopping SSRIs - An Interesting Thing Happened » Bob, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 18:42:32
I often wonder whether anybody will ever be able to truly conclude anything for sure with these drugs and this disease.
What level of Celexa are you maintaining?
Posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 21:35:09
In reply to Re: Stopping SSRIs - An Interesting Thing Happened » IsoM, posted by Bob on February 13, 2002, at 21:20:12
Posted by ross on February 13, 2002, at 22:00:24
In reply to Amount of Celexa - only 40 mg. Why? (nm) » Bob, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 21:35:09
i found 60mgs of celexa to be really good last winter augmented with 45mgs of remeron. celexa is a really good ssri and to think its sister Lexapro will be out in the summer is a good thought and the isomer suppose to be actually better than Citalopram.....
ross
Posted by Bob on February 13, 2002, at 22:10:03
In reply to Amount of Celexa - only 40 mg. Why? (nm) » Bob, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 21:35:09
Posted by spike4848 on February 15, 2002, at 19:47:51
In reply to Stopping SSRIs - An Interesting Thing Happened, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 18:20:03
I here that all the time from paxil users. And they all say the same thing ... feelings of "Brain Zaps" or "Electric Shocks" when stopping paxil. And it seems pretty unique to paxil.
I always thought it had something to do with paxil being the least selective serotonin agent amongst the ssri's. The withdrawal of norepinephrine reuptake maybe causing this .... but that was just some crazy guess from this WIMPDSP (White Italian Male with Panic Disorder and Social Phobia). Maybe provigil's indirected noradrengeric properties keep you from experiencing the withdrawal symptoms.
Sorry, wish I could do better.
Your Friend,Spike
Posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 20:42:08
In reply to Hummm .... again! » IsoM, posted by spike4848 on February 15, 2002, at 19:47:51
That's okay Spike, I just wanted a doctor's view about it - even a WIMPDSP doctor. :-)
Thought you might have an idea of the pharmakinetics.End of day 5 & still no resurgence of withdrawal symptoms. I really don't think they're going to come. Feel so DAMN cheerful now. But this is just what I'm really like - it's not hypomania. I don't feel invincible or that I can do more than anyone else. My Mom said when I was little, I was this tiny round-faced ball of energy, always getting into things. Still do, but now I can get away with it 'cause I'm an adult. :-)
Have you tried Provigil yet? Let me know how things are, please? I ended up taking 2 pills (600 mg) adrafinil daily rather than trying to do 1 1/2 pills daily. Next week, if it's still warm (10-15 degree C), I'm going to put my grubbies on & go play in the dirt. I tell others I'm gardening but I'm really just making mud-pies still.
If you've been reading Lou Pilder's threads, you'll understand my comment - I feel so great on adrafinil, I want to tell *everybody* to give it a good trial, but not being manic, I know it might not be the wonder pill for others like it is for me. I guess it really suits my metabolism or whatever.
WEFNADHDD-WNRTTOW: (White European-type Female with Narcolepsy, ADHD, & Depression Who's Now Ready To Take On the World)
Posted by spike4848 on February 16, 2002, at 4:23:08
In reply to Re: Hummm .... again! » spike4848, posted by IsoM on February 15, 2002, at 20:42:08
> Have you tried Provigil yet? Let me know how things are, please? I ended up taking 2 pills (600 mg) adrafinil daily rather than trying to do 1 1/2 pills daily. Next week, if it's still warm (10-15 degree C), I'm going to put my grubbies on & go play in the dirt. I tell others I'm gardening but I'm really just making mud-pies still.Yes, I got some provigil. I tried 100 mg with my zoloft 100 mg/klonopin 0.5mg and felt palpitation and anxious all day. At the end of the day I felt wiped out. I had tried ritalin before and had a similar reaction, increased anxiety, palpatations and major crash after about 6 hours. I think my problem is my comorbid panic disorder which makes my depression difficult to treat. I was thinking of trying provigil again today at 50 mgs. Any thoughts?
> WEFNADHDD-WNRTTOW: (White European-type Female with Narcolepsy, ADHD, & Depression Who's Now Ready To Take On the World)
LOL ... love to hear from you IsoM
Your Friend,
Spike
Posted by IsoM on February 16, 2002, at 22:40:49
In reply to Provigil ..... yes ..... what do you think? » IsoM, posted by spike4848 on February 16, 2002, at 4:23:08
Hmmmm! Now this is a puzzler. Looking at it from a scientific view point, I can see three possible causes (I'm trying my best to be scientific but until I win the Nobel prize, I probably have a long way to go still aboput reasoning correctly).
1. The *afinil-type drugs just don't suit your kind of problems & metabolism. A definite "don't take".
2. Your present combo of meds (& possibly food & alcohol) is somehow interacting with your liver enzymes ...etc. (I don't know enough to adequately explain it. Maybe as a doctor you can check it out further?)
3. For whatever reason, a little goes a lonnnggg way with you. Seeing that you can feel a reaction to Provigil the first day, why not take a very small amount? Not 50 mg, but 25 mg or even 12.5 mg? Far, far less chance of feeling rotten if it really isn't good for you, & maybe it'll give you an idea whether it might work at a low level dosage. If no reaction at 12.5 mg, up it to 25 mg. Being slow & careful makes a lot more sense than rushing it.
I admit that if I read other posts saying what a wonderful effect a certain med gave them, I'd sure be disappointed as all get out if it didn't work for me.
I read about the *racetam drugs helping with poor memory (Elizabeth brought them to my attention). With these meds & choline, the precursors for acetylcholine are available & are supposed to help with memory & maybe other depression related trnasmitters. Before I go & add another med, I've increased my nutritional yeast flakes with juice daily. Because my normal TSH is fairly low, I need more B vitamins than the RDA calls for. Just a thought, but why not add something like that to your diet? A far superior source of B complex vitamins (& choline) & many trace minerals, all needed for healthy brain function. Sorry if I sound like some health fanatic - but I really think our average diet is lacking too many nutrients. Kind of like running a car for years with no oil changes, or new spark plugs, wires, etc. Performance goes way down.
your WEFNADHDD-WNRTTOW friend :-)
Posted by Lorraine on February 19, 2002, at 14:12:21
In reply to Provigil ..... yes ..... what do you think? » IsoM, posted by spike4848 on February 16, 2002, at 4:23:08
Just chiming in. My first few days on Provigil were tough. I started at 50 mg, quickly backed off to 25 mg, added Klonopin .25 and have worked my way back up to 50 mg Provigil and .50 Klonopin. The anxious feelings seem to be dissipating. Too soon to know where I will wind up on this. Feel good now, but wait and see is the name of the game. Plus had high blood pressure from the Provigil (150/100) and am waiting to see if I can bring it down with time.
Lorraine
Posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 14:54:37
In reply to Re: Provigil ..... yes ..... what do you think?, posted by Lorraine on February 19, 2002, at 14:12:21
Lorraine, you're not the first who's mentioned higher readings on Provigil. Do you mind me asking how you knew (or suspected) your readings would be higher?
I'm curious as there's no real symptoms to a rise in blood pressure unless it's alarmingly high. I honestly have no idea of whether the adrafinil I take has caused a rise in blood pressure in me. I'll find out Wed as I have an appointment for renewal of some meds then.
What was your readings like before? My blood pressure always has been in the low range of normal & it never occured to me to check it out with adrafinil.
Posted by Lorraine on February 20, 2002, at 21:05:54
In reply to Provigil and High Blood Pressure » Lorraine, posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 14:54:37
I was monitoring my blood pressure. You can get the wrist or arm automatic cuffs for around $100 at the drug store. I had just got off a Holter monitor and thought why don't I just keep an eye on it myself since I know it can be a problem. First got a cuff when I was taking MAOIs because of the risk of hypertensive crises (which I did get on Parnate.) Good idea to own a cuff--just don't get hypervigilent if you know what I mean.
Posted by IsoM on February 20, 2002, at 21:46:29
In reply to Provigil and High Blood Pressure » Lorraine, posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 14:54:37
Got back from doctor & my BP remains around 95/65 still.
This is the end of the thread.
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