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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Hello Friends,
well...I go up only far enough to cause a little bit of noise and maybe a touch of trouble and then back down into a deep dumpster of darkness.Can't tell anymore what is psychological and what is chemical.
The few people left in my life think it's all in my head and are 'life problems I need to work out'. I can't take it. I would love to just drop out. So many responsibilities...So little enjoyment... so uncomfortable from the useless pills.
Posted by Willow on February 19, 2002, at 20:04:54
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Hard to believe that the person who wrote the post regarding slurs toward your perfect neighbourly neighbours is feeling down. But I know it happens, outside appearances and all can be deceptive.
So here's my neighbourly advice. Chin up, tomorrow may be a better day, such is the nature with some of these beasts, totally unpredictable. For myself after having a little operation and the regular daily stresses I thought I was crashing, but a few nights of chat at open with my cyber pals has seemed to help. Also having a med that works for me, even if it's not the cure I was looking for helps too.
Try doing something that will change your regular routine. Visit the library for a great book. Nothing I can mention is guraranteed to work, but it may give you an hour of respite. And if we can achieve an hour, then we should aim for half-a-day, etc.
Chin up!
Willow
Posted by Mark H. on February 19, 2002, at 20:14:46
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Scott, friend,
Don't discount your value to others. Even through your depressed mood your strength of spirit shines, offering hope for others who are depressed. I know you write with sincerity, but in this space you cannot see what is still there, vibrant and alive and aching to touch others. It is so brilliantly obvious to me, safely outside your pain.
Of impermanence I'm fond of saying, "That which frightened us in our youth returns to comfort us in old age." That is, when we're young we think impermanence means only that we'll lose something we value. With experience, we find it means also that we will be free of our suffering.
Did you know that your mind is basically weak? The good part of this is that you can trick it into believing almost anything. If you tell yourself repeatedly with intense sincerity, "I am really happy that I am suffering now," soon your mind will experience happiness. The absurdity of this trick shows us the way out of the seemingly inescapable trap of depression.
Do you know the practice of tonglen? When you hurt, you ask to take on the suffering of everyone in the world who is similarly hurt, and that by your taking it on, they may be relieved today. It costs you nothing -- you are already depressed (or have the flu, or hit your thumb with a hammer). But it gives *meaning* to your suffering where none seemed to exist before, and miraculously -- without inherently changing your suffering -- it often lightens it in a way that is impossible to describe but surprisingly easy to experience.
All great spiritual truths are mental paradoxes, beyond the reach of our limited intellects. Just let go and allow the possibility that you are wonderful and complete just the way you are, right now. Even if just for the empirical knowledge of it, choose to be happy you hurt and see what happens. Report back only if you wish to. You'll be in my heart tonight either way.
Mark H.
Posted by Mark H. on February 19, 2002, at 20:16:30
In reply to You must be a south park fan!, posted by Willow on February 19, 2002, at 20:04:54
Posted by Reneeb on February 19, 2002, at 21:29:25
In reply to Re: Great advice, Willow! (nm), posted by Mark H. on February 19, 2002, at 20:16:30
Scott, Mark said it so well. Please take care of yourself.
Renee
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 22:11:20
In reply to You must be a south park fan!, posted by Willow on February 19, 2002, at 20:04:54
Willow,
My sense of humor often comes across as odd because I look serious and sound serious to people who don't know me. It gets me into trouble now and agin.
Thanks for the upifting feedback and advice. I will take it.
I know the drill it's just gotten old..
Thanks Again,
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 22:31:45
In reply to Re: Totally Down Again, posted by Mark H. on February 19, 2002, at 20:14:46
Mark H,
I wish I knew where you find the energy and wisdom that spills off your posts onto this board. I only hope that as I become more comfortable with who and where I am, and can better manage that elusive and fleeting sense of purpose and meaning that I will be willing and able to lend a hand as you do to others. As always your wisdom and advice is taken to heart. To redefine down times in a new way as you suggest is something I have not thought of before.
Scott
Posted by Geezer on February 19, 2002, at 22:36:04
In reply to Re: Great advice, posted by Reneeb on February 19, 2002, at 21:29:25
Hey Scott,
I am not real good at words of support but I can recognize one of my own kind when I see one. You have been at this fight for a long time and you are going to overcome this. TRD does not mean there is no hope, I read your posts above, you haven't tried all the combos. Now stay with us. Have you seen any big name pdocs in other areas of the country? Could I carefully mention ECT as an option just to think about? My mother had a lot of them in the 50s and has only taking meds in the past 10 years.
Please let us hear from you tomorrow!!All the best
Geezer
Posted by spike4848 on February 19, 2002, at 22:58:02
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
> The few people left in my life think it's all in my head and are 'life problems I need to work out'. I can't take it. I would love to just drop out. So many responsibilities...So little enjoyment... so uncomfortable from the useless pills.Hey Mr Scott,
Sounds like your going through a tough time. I am sorry your suffering now.
My best friend, from high school, recently was diagnosised with bipolar disorder. He wanted to just "drop out" .... and he did .... now he is gone forever. This made me very angry and sad.
Now he will never have a wife, never have children, never go to our high school reunions, never experience anything again.But you CAN and WILL have a future. Eventually you will feel better. You will find the right meds and/or resolve your psychological situation. You will be happy, maybe tommorrow or maybe not until next month, but it will happen.
Don't ever give in ..... you can win this. You will win this!
Spike
PS Fellow poster "IsoM" wrote this to me. I will never forget it.
"Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up. Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing."
The full post: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020110/msgs/90350.html
Posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 23:46:15
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Of course, it's "all in your head" like the people in your life think - ask then where else a person's brain is supposed to be??? And yes, things DO need to get worked out. Heck, even normally healthy, balanced individuals are always working out life's issues. That's what life is about - it's a dynamic process, always changing. Only if you're comatose or dead is there no issues.
Every time I think I have a problem licked, another pops up its head. Maybe its head was already sticking out & I was too busy dealing with something else to notice it. But you know, when these things pop up, I do lick them, ready for another. I'm sure (from reading your posts previously), Scott, you've had lots of problems you've licked before. Maybe you're saying "yeah, I licked those but I can't lick depression". But it's not a one-time only beast. For almost all of us that suffer from depression, we beat it back only to see it rise again. Our collective success stories show, though, that we can deal with it when it comes.
I know I sound bright & perky now and to think "easy for her to say - she's feeling good now" but I honestly believe that even when I do feel miserable. I whine & complain to myself (hate to do it much to others) sometimes wishing I just didn't exist but there's always something lurking in the back letting me know it does improve. When I feel good, I think it'll never go bad again, but again there's something lurking there saying it'll be back. So life goes on. I feel like a yo-yo sometimes, but the joy of life when I feel good makes me treasure life, ready to tackle depression when it sneaks back in. I've been like this for +15 years now. Each time, I think I've licked it for good. Who knows? One day it may be true.
I love Mark H's advice. I do apply something similar to myself. I refuse to block myself off from the suffering of others in this world. Watching news & documentaries, I think of really how well off we are now, physically, financially, emotionally, etc from war-torn victims, torture victims, famine victims... - you get my point. Watching the news tonight, I was amused how people were whining that the PST is going up from 7% to 7.5%. Really! Like they'd ever notice the difference. How many people stop & buy coffee or pop through a month, or movies, or cable, or new clothes with no thought to how much they've spent while someone elsewhere has died from disease or starvation. When I get thinking like this, my situation sounds pretty damn good.
Scott, I'm a real nature nut. I'd live outside permanently if I could (with shelter for books & music & a soft bed :-)). I spend a fair amount of time just observing nature. It gives me deep joy & satisfaction. At the campus a couple of years ago, there were two crows. They mate for life. He was reaffirming his 'vows' to his mate that spring - bending his neck forward & make gobbling noises to her. Then he hop a little closer & she'd act coy. It was so sweet. That fall, I saw he'd lost the tip of his upper bill. He was having great difficulty trying to pick up food. I e-mailed someone on the net who's a crow expert (I've e-mailed crow observations to him before) & he said that he has a very good chance of surviving. Other crows beside his mate will probably help in bringing him food. It really gladdened my heart. If birds can be so loving & supportive of one another, surely we can too.
Scott, spend time just sitting watching small things around you. Observe the little birds around you & their interactions. Stop & look up at the sky & really look. WAtch the clouds change & move. Look at life with a new perspective like a child would. I'm sure you'd find much to make you feel good. Not a boisterous, noisy happiness but a quiet, deep one.
I know I probably sound corny as all get out, maybe nauseatingly so to some but this is me. Maybe the reason I do rebound after bad spells & keep hoping is I really feel I'm still the little girl I used to be. Find the little boy in yourself - what made you happy when you were small.
Posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 23:48:54
In reply to You Will Win This/Tribute to IsoM-Thanks » Mr. Scott, posted by spike4848 on February 19, 2002, at 22:58:02
Thank you so much Spike. Do you want to start a fan club to me? ;-)
I say what I say because I really believe it. Naive maybe but I can still be a cynic, just a optimistic cynic. You've always got something nice to say. Your post brightened my day (actually evening) so much. Thanks again, sweetie. Ooops! Scott's supposed to be my cyber-sweetie this year.
Posted by spike4848 on February 20, 2002, at 12:07:50
In reply to Re: You Will Win This/Tribute to IsoM-Thanks » spike4848, posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 23:48:54
>Thanks again, sweetie. Ooops! Scott's supposed to be my cyber-sweetie this year.
Thats okay .... maybe I be you cyber-sweetie next year! And your deserve the praise .... your always so positive and helpful to everyone here. I am sure everyone feel the same.
Spike
Posted by Reneeb on February 20, 2002, at 13:31:05
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Hi Scott, I hope you are feeling better today. I included you in my prayers. Please let us know how you are doing.
Renee
Posted by OldSchool on February 20, 2002, at 18:24:05
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Are you sure your diagnosis is correct? When pills dont work good or when they tend to make you worse feeling, oftentimes the problem is an incorrect diagnosis. If the diagnosis is correct, the pills shouldnt make you feel worse.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 20, 2002, at 18:59:32
In reply to Scott, are you feeling better today?, posted by Reneeb on February 20, 2002, at 13:31:05
Renee,
Thanks for thinking of me and praying for me. That is very very kind. I would be lying if I said I felt better today. I am hanging onto my hope however, and trying to use the helpful posts and insights from PB. I also made an appointment with an expert at a prestigious university nearby (another recommendation from PB). My current doctor is good in many ways, but may be too lenient with me. I may need someone who can say this is what I think you have, this is what I think you should do, now go do it and report back in 3-4 weeks instead of the opposite scenario where I walk in and say I want to try this and then back out because of side effects.
Thanks Again for your kindness in this harrowing time I'm having.
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 20, 2002, at 19:57:24
In reply to Re: Totally Down Again, posted by OldSchool on February 20, 2002, at 18:24:05
I just wrote the most horrible post I have ever written. Then I cut it and pasted it into a word document, because to post it would be unfair and abusive to my dear friends at PB. Most of you know it first hand anyways.
Rest assured I am telling myself...This too shall pass.
And instead of lying on the couch like I wish to do I will force myself to go work out(it's been too long), and I will envision each motion as me overcoming the obstacles that seperate me from happiness.
Thanks fo your tolerance and support,
Scott
Posted by Reneeb on February 20, 2002, at 21:31:16
In reply to Re: Scott, are you feeling better today? » Reneeb, posted by Mr. Scott on February 20, 2002, at 18:59:32
>
>
> Scott, I think it is wonderful that you trying to take charge in the midst of your depression. You are thinking about things that you can change it is so much better than just staying in bed. Which is something I would do.You will get thru this!!
Renee
Posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 0:03:55
In reply to Re: Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 20, 2002, at 19:57:24
Scott, if I'm really down, the next day will make little difference. It takes a little while for me. It'll happen over a period of a few days that I notice I don't feel so bad anymore.
I read something last year where it said people who get the most depressed (from environmental factors, they didn't mention genetics) are those who feel they have no control over what's happening to them. Those who experience the same conditions but feel they can or will have a degree of control over their situation handle depression the best.
I'm glad you're doing what you can. It shows you haven't given up - that you feel there is some control there. Summer's coming soon. I don't know if it helps at all for you but I hope it does. Remember, you're my cyber-sweetie this year & I don't want you to let go. That's what cyber-sweeties are for here.
Posted by Willow on February 21, 2002, at 8:02:54
In reply to Re: Totally Down Again » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on February 21, 2002, at 0:03:55
Mr. Scott
How 'bout something different? If you find the regular routine hard to keep alternate with another activity that you enjoy.
And yes I recall last year talk about ad's showing benefit in the first weeks, but with the effexor it took about 8 months before I stabilized. Hang in there!
Willow
ps the boss kicks below the belt when the opponent has his back turned
Posted by sjb on February 21, 2002, at 15:13:56
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
Posted by sjb on February 21, 2002, at 15:28:17
In reply to Re: Totally Down Again » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on February 19, 2002, at 23:46:15
Mr. Scott,
I thought your post was wonderful. I'm thinking about horseback riding again (something I loved as a kid.) I also love nature - thinking about a hiking trip to the PA Grand Canyon.
sjb
Posted by Anna Laura on February 21, 2002, at 16:43:06
In reply to Totally Down Again, posted by Mr. Scott on February 19, 2002, at 19:38:44
> Hello Friends,
> well...I go up only far enough to cause a little bit of noise and maybe a touch of trouble and then back down into a deep dumpster of darkness.
>
> Can't tell anymore what is psychological and what is chemical.
>
> The few people left in my life think it's all in my head and are 'life problems I need to work out'. I can't take it. I would love to just drop out. So many responsibilities...So little enjoyment... so uncomfortable from the useless pills.
Scott,
I'm really sorry for you. I've just bumped in to your post by accident. I've been on psycho-social board recently, joning discussions and enjoying it.
Didn't see your post there, thought you were taking a rest or even feeling better....it hurts me to realize you're not feeling any better.
I don't know what to say except that you should hold on and see what happens.
Which kind of meds did you try? Do you suffer from major depression right now? You know, i don't mean to be intrusive, i just need more informations in order to find out if i can help a little.A hug
Anna Laura
This is the end of the thread.
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