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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mike21 on April 5, 2002, at 18:05:32
Has anyone had success switching from a benzo to
a opioid mixed agonist/antagonist (or any other
opioid)?I have never had such good results from
a med as I get from benzos. They seem to greatly
increase my capacity for experiencing pleasure.
I am thinking they are acting indirectly on the
opioid centers of my brain, but that a more direct
route might be more practical and would affect
fewer systems in my brain.I am also theorizing that a deficiency in
endogenous opioid chemicals is actually possible,
whereas I don't know if it's possible to have
a benzo deficiency. (Maybe I have a deficiency in GABA?)I do feel some sedation from benzos initially,
which is a welcome change from the sort of hyper-
active state of mind I find myself in many nights.
My sleep has improved after taking them, my social
interactions are improved. It is not only easier
to talk to people, but I even feel a little bit of
a desire to do so, even for small-talk which I
usually find repulsive.I've been reading about buprenorphine here and
elsewhere. I read Dr. Bodkin's study. Seems like
I could benefit from it.It also crossed my mind that I could have
characteristics of ADD, and that a straight dopaminergic
med like ritalin would help. I tried wellbutrin,
but I found the norepinephrine effect to be completely
overwelming the dopamine increase.Early in my life (8 yrs) I had OCD. I stopped
the behaviours which a psychologist convinced me
were unacceptable, but the anxiety is still present.
I have tried SSRIs, the usual first line
treatment for ocd, and felt like they were doing
nothing for the source of my anxiety.At this point in my life (mid 20s) I feel like
my anxiety is debilitating me from experiencing
a full life. (When I say anxiety, I mean the mental acts
I have to perform under any social circumstance
in order to behave in a socially normal way. It
is a constant act of calculation, filtering, replaying, etc.)
I finally become exasperated because I feel such a
disconnect from most other people I encounter.And that is depressing. But I feel
like the real source of all my troubles is an
innate deficiency in perceiving and experiencing
pleasure. And if that is the case, I want to treat
the part of my brain that deals specifically with
pleasure. This idea is difficult to convince a
pdoc of with the popularity of SSRIs.
(I've tried prozac, paxil, effexor, wellbutrin,
st.johns wort)So if anyone has felt the same sort of benefit
from benzos, then switched to an opioid, dopaminergic,
or any other med I haven't mentioned, your feedback
would be appreciated. Perhaps it would help my
pdoc to hear of other success stories.If nothing else, I would like to know if my line
of thinking is in any way substantiated.Thanks for your time,
Mike
Posted by geno on April 5, 2002, at 18:59:00
In reply to Anyone switched from benzos to opioids?, posted by mike21 on April 5, 2002, at 18:05:32
well to tell you bluntly, pain killers such as vicodin work much better for me. They make me more euphoric, talkative, work harder, etc. I suspect you could take opiates to detox or come off benzos or via the opposite.
For me i do the tri detox. I use ghb, then would come off ghb with benzos or vicodin. Then use ghb to come off benzos or vicodin. For me ghb is the top noch, then vicodin, then xanax.
alcohol sucks.Just think, alcohol and tobacco kill more people than any other drug combined. Both have NO medical uses. GHB, benzos and opiates do. Do you see people dying every day in the news from ghb or xanax, or even vicodin? Yes there are deaths related, more so to overdose or combinations.
Imagine if prohobition came back into play, or the us gov make cigarretts and alcohol illegal. You would have mayhem.
geno
Posted by mike21 on April 5, 2002, at 20:20:08
In reply to Re: Anyone switched from benzos to opioids?, posted by geno on April 5, 2002, at 18:59:00
I don't know much about how ghb actually works
physiologically, but the vicodin would apparently
affect the same systems as buprenorphine.I guess I am really trying to find a solution that
I will not have to detox from, i.e. a stable, long-term
dose of a med that will treat what I think are my
specific deficiencies. I would like to be able to
try a more powerful opiate like vicodin, but I don't
think my pdoc would prescribe it.Sounds like the drugs that really work for you are
either illegal or highly controlled. It is
unfortunate that some people abuse these drugs.
I am hoping the low abuse potential of
buprenorphine will allow me to try it.How would you classify your condition without
these drugs? What type of diagnosis have you had?Mike
> well to tell you bluntly, pain killers such as vicodin work much better for me. They make me more euphoric, talkative, work harder, etc. I suspect you could take opiates to detox or come off benzos or via the opposite.
> For me i do the tri detox. I use ghb, then would come off ghb with benzos or vicodin. Then use ghb to come off benzos or vicodin. For me ghb is the top noch, then vicodin, then xanax.
> alcohol sucks.
>
> Just think, alcohol and tobacco kill more people than any other drug combined. Both have NO medical uses. GHB, benzos and opiates do. Do you see people dying every day in the news from ghb or xanax, or even vicodin? Yes there are deaths related, more so to overdose or combinations.
>
> Imagine if prohobition came back into play, or the us gov make cigarretts and alcohol illegal. You would have mayhem.
> geno
Posted by Elizabeth on April 7, 2002, at 23:42:53
In reply to Anyone switched from benzos to opioids?, posted by mike21 on April 5, 2002, at 18:05:32
> Has anyone had success switching from a benzo to
> a opioid mixed agonist/antagonist (or any other
> opioid)?No. But I've heard that opioids can "cover" for benzo withdrawal. FWIW.
If benzos work for you, I'd recommend that you stick with them. Opioids have a lot more side effects.
-elizabeth
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