![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2002, at 18:16:03
In reply to Re: I'm raising Rem to 65 and beyond - keep you posted » BarbaraCat, posted by Bob on May 11, 2002, at 12:33:28
To any interested Babblers:
I'm going to be raising my dosage of Remeron from 45 mg to 65 and maybe beyond. I'm sliding into a funk and want to test the theory that more Rem makes one perkier, skinnier and instills one with an unbridled urge to bound out of bed early in the morning whistling a happy little tune. Hey, I'll take any one of the above at this point.My major concern is that with my tendency towards anxiety exacerbating my depression (or is it really BPII? Who the heck knows...) the additional NE surge will loose the stress and insomnia demons within. But I won't know until I try and then, you'll know too! So, get the news here if you're inclined. Even if no one gives a hoot, I'll be posting every few days with the results for a personal historical (maybe even hysterical) log. Bottoms up! - BarbaraCat
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2002, at 18:23:25
In reply to Re: I'm raising Rem to 65 and beyond - keep you posted, posted by geno on May 11, 2002, at 18:09:18
Thanks Geno,
I also take 10 mg Ambien. Can't go a night without it, no matter how tired I think I am. The Remeron doesn't seem to induce sleep whatsoever, even when I was at lower doses. I'm going to be raising my dosage to around 65 cause I need something more than I'm getting with my Remeron/lithium/thyroid/female hormones/klonopin/ambien brew. Even with raising the dose 12mg last night I had the first vivid dream in a very long time and they're important to me. BCat> Barb, Iv been on remeron 30mg for over a year. Its a dream for me for sleep. I found when i raise it to 45m, i have a hard time falling asleep. This is due to more norepinephrine alpha2 firing. Maybe adding some ambien 10mg with 45mg of remeron will do the trick if you cant fall asleep at 45mg. The higher the dose, the more activating and better the antidepressant response. I may do this 45mg remeron/10mg ambien combo. my sleep is so disurbed, that i cannot go 1 night without remeron. When i wake up, its sorta sedating, but a cup of coffeee will boost me up. Depending on how bad your sleep disorder is.
>
> oh by the way, i dream all night. vivid dreams. i sometimes wakeup thinking i was still in the dream. Some are peaceful, sometimes nightmares, but good sleep makes me funciton better the next day.
>
> geno
Posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:41:01
In reply to Remeron increase - get the gory details here!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 11, 2002, at 18:16:03
> To any interested Babblers:
> I'm going to be raising my dosage of Remeron from 45 mg to 65 and maybe beyond. I'm sliding into a funk and want to test the theory that more Rem makes one perkier, skinnier and instills one with an unbridled urge to bound out of bed early in the morning whistling a happy little tune. Hey, I'll take any one of the above at this point.
>
> My major concern is that with my tendency towards anxiety exacerbating my depression (or is it really BPII? Who the heck knows...) the additional NE surge will loose the stress and insomnia demons within. But I won't know until I try and then, you'll know too! So, get the news here if you're inclined. Even if no one gives a hoot, I'll be posting every few days with the results for a personal historical (maybe even hysterical) log. Bottoms up! - BarbaraCat
Hey there,
Damn the torpedoes!Well, the good points are that you have had a positive response to Remeron thus far. My pdoc has mentioned using Rem. up to 90mg in some patients. Do it and see if your current issues improve or worsen. Actually, that is the simplest most unambiguous way to find out what the *demon* is here. Not to mention you already have the medication, you don't have to switch or add-on anything to become more confused with.
good luck,
if things get weird
or otherwise let us know
so we can help,Mitch
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 0:34:29
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - get the gory details here! » BarbaraCat, posted by Ritch on May 11, 2002, at 22:41:01
OK, here I go. Had some booze tonight to celebrate a minor anniversary. Yes, some Korbel brandy and me and my hubby danced all around the living room to Santana and Little Feat - at my instistance, yes, he had no choice in the matter. I danced the pants off him but then again, he's not on any psycho active substance other than Korbel. He still did a mean cha-cha when it was required, however!
Well, I'm going to try to get some sleep but heck, I sure don't feel like it. Wish I was about 50 lbs less fat, like a lean mean girl machine - I could really cut the rug instead of just smearing it. Staying at 55 mg for the next few days until 1. I feel brave enough to accelerate, or 2. I'm still at the same ditzy level and wanting a change. Stay tuned, Compadres. I'm-a going for it!
Posted by Phil on May 12, 2002, at 6:11:20
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Night 1, posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 0:34:29
The important thing is that you danced!! Good choice of music, too. :-)
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 12, 2002, at 15:34:21
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Night 1, posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 0:34:29
Hi Barb,
I also want to contribute with some advice. I have found Xanax to be BOTH a powerful anxiolytic and to have itself STRONG anti-depressant properties (I now take 1/2 the dose of my AD (Anafranil/clomipramine) med than when I was on the same AD plus diazepam/Valium and feel MUCH BETTER now on that 1/2 dose of the same AD plus Xanax). If I were you I'd try to substitute Klonopin by Xanax taken around the clock every 6 hours (I use 4 halves of 1mg pills which makes a total of 2mg/day). You look like a strong woman. Why not give it a shot? If you substitute Klonopin (a benzo) by Xanax (another benzo) you should have very minor withdrawal symptoms (if any) and can do the transition almost overnight as I myself did five months ago (from Valium to Xanax). And I'm neither in my 30s nor alas even in my 40s anymore...
And if 4x.5mg Xanax proves not to be enough, go up gently up to 4x1mg taken every 6 hours around the clock. Just maintain all the other drugs including of course your 55mg of Remeron and the Ambien for sleeping. Reduce alcohol to the minimum you can (zero would be best) while you are taking Xanax (they make a very nasty combination in my brain, those two...). Make sex and all exercise you can: both are good for the nerves... Keep us posted several times a day.
I wish you the very best of luck,
Iago
> OK, here I go. Had some booze tonight to celebrate a minor anniversary. Yes, some Korbel brandy and me and my hubby danced all around the living room to Santana and Little Feat - at my instistance, yes, he had no choice in the matter. I danced the pants off him but then again, he's not on any psycho active substance other than Korbel. He still did a mean cha-cha when it was required, however!
>
> Well, I'm going to try to get some sleep but heck, I sure don't feel like it. Wish I was about 50 lbs less fat, like a lean mean girl machine - I could really cut the rug instead of just smearing it. Staying at 55 mg for the next few days until 1. I feel brave enough to accelerate, or 2. I'm still at the same ditzy level and wanting a change. Stay tuned, Compadres. I'm-a going for it!
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 18:33:20
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Night 1 » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on May 12, 2002, at 15:34:21
Thanks, Iago
It's interesting because I was just this morning thinking about switching from Klonopin to Xanax. The Klonopin doesn't seem to be doing it for me and I definitely need an anxiolytic, otherwise anything stressful can tip the scales for me. But I'm wondering why you personally prefer Xanax to Klonopin, or is it just that you prefer Xanax to any benzo due it's AD effect?Your advice about alcohol is well taken. This morning after a few brandy's last night I was ready for the slag heap. I want to monitor how the increase in Rem will affect sleep/waking patterns and tying one on rather pollutes the experiment. So today I'm feeling kind of jaggy and can't contribute any useful med experience other than confirming your alcohol warning.
> Hi Barb,
>
> I also want to contribute with some advice. I have found Xanax to be BOTH a powerful anxiolytic and to have itself STRONG anti-depressant properties (I now take 1/2 the dose of my AD (Anafranil/clomipramine) med than when I was on the same AD plus diazepam/Valium and feel MUCH BETTER now on that 1/2 dose of the same AD plus Xanax). If I were you I'd try to substitute Klonopin by Xanax taken around the clock every 6 hours (I use 4 halves of 1mg pills which makes a total of 2mg/day). You look like a strong woman. Why not give it a shot? If you substitute Klonopin (a benzo) by Xanax (another benzo) you should have very minor withdrawal symptoms (if any) and can do the transition almost overnight as I myself did five months ago (from Valium to Xanax). And I'm neither in my 30s nor alas even in my 40s anymore...
>
> And if 4x.5mg Xanax proves not to be enough, go up gently up to 4x1mg taken every 6 hours around the clock. Just maintain all the other drugs including of course your 55mg of Remeron and the Ambien for sleeping. Reduce alcohol to the minimum you can (zero would be best) while you are taking Xanax (they make a very nasty combination in my brain, those two...). Make sex and all exercise you can: both are good for the nerves... Keep us posted several times a day.
>
> I wish you the very best of luck,
> Iago
>
>
> > OK, here I go. Had some booze tonight to celebrate a minor anniversary. Yes, some Korbel brandy and me and my hubby danced all around the living room to Santana and Little Feat - at my instistance, yes, he had no choice in the matter. I danced the pants off him but then again, he's not on any psycho active substance other than Korbel. He still did a mean cha-cha when it was required, however!
> >
> > Well, I'm going to try to get some sleep but heck, I sure don't feel like it. Wish I was about 50 lbs less fat, like a lean mean girl machine - I could really cut the rug instead of just smearing it. Staying at 55 mg for the next few days until 1. I feel brave enough to accelerate, or 2. I'm still at the same ditzy level and wanting a change. Stay tuned, Compadres. I'm-a going for it!
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 13, 2002, at 4:42:47
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 2 » Iago Camboa, posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 18:33:20
> It's interesting because I was just this morning thinking about switching from Klonopin to Xanax. The Klonopin doesn't seem to be doing it for me and I definitely need an anxiolytic, otherwise anything stressful can tip the scales for me. But I'm wondering why you personally prefer Xanax to Klonopin, or is it just that you prefer Xanax to any benzo due it's AD effect?
Hi Barb,
I was thinking on the 2nd alternative (its AD effects) but I can also assure you Xanax is a very powerful anxiolytic and anti-stress med too (which is not at all bad for you, I think). And it is not only me to say so; listen what our co-babbler Dazer (near the bottom of the board) says he feels like with it: 'more energy, less anxiety, higher mood, [little or] no sex s.e.'.
I assure you that chemical was the best thing I came across in the last few years; it was my family doc that first suggested it to me and I assure you that woman is 'fire': I never saw her put her money on the wrong horses, she is smart as the devil himself...
Of course it may prove useless to you but I'd bet rather to the contrary... Also, you know, in this tricky matter of depression sometimes a 'wag' can make the whole difference. So, don't loose momentum and all the luck in the world!!
Don't forget to tell your precious hubby I send you a kiss.Yours,
Iago>
> Your advice about alcohol is well taken. This morning after a few brandy's last night I was ready for the slag heap. I want to monitor how the increase in Rem will affect sleep/waking patterns and tying one on rather pollutes the experiment. So today I'm feeling kind of jaggy and can't contribute any useful med experience other than confirming your alcohol warning.
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2002, at 13:50:52
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Night 1, posted by BarbaraCat on May 12, 2002, at 0:34:29
Geez, is it this simple? Raise the dosage of Remeron enough to kick in the NE and all the dopey dozey stuff is gone? I'm on day 3 after taking 56.25 mg (1-1/4 45mg tab). Woke up after 7 hours of technocolor episodic dream-laden sleep just rarin' to go. No sludgy hour to wake up, I just could not stay in bed another minute, put on my workout video and went to it. Almost like I have too much energy and need to burn it off, but thank God, with the motivation and focus to do so.
I had a bit of extra trouble falling asleep, like the neurons of my eyes were firing more rapidly. It also feels like my brain has 'woken up', so I'm enjoying the pleasure of just thinking about things again. But if waking isn't the problem it used to be, then I can live with a few less hours (and hours and hours) of non-restoritave sleep.
This almost feels hypomanic, but without the frazzled disorganization of that state. I have much more energy, more drive and focus, and feel so much more curious and open to what's going on OUTSIDE of me than dwelling on the sad inside of me.
I don't want to push this level up for at least another week because going manic is not part of my plan. But really folks, this feels like a completely different med and so far I like it very much. I'm going to take Iago's advice and ask my pdoc for Xanax instead of the Klonopin. I'd like to have a soothing safety net if needed and Klonopin doesn't have that soothing quality for me anymore. More later... - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2002, at 13:53:00
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 2 » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on May 13, 2002, at 4:42:47
Posted by Bob on May 13, 2002, at 22:46:02
In reply to Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2002, at 13:50:52
Barbara (or anyone else on Remeron):
I assume you don't have any type of OCD or rumination problems? I've heard that Remeron doesn't help with that much.
Bob
Posted by JohnX2 on May 13, 2002, at 22:56:25
In reply to Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2002, at 13:50:52
> Geez, is it this simple? Raise the dosage of Remeron enough to kick in the NE and all the dopey dozey stuff is gone? I'm on day 3 after taking 56.25 mg (1-1/4 45mg tab). Woke up after 7 hours of technocolor episodic dream-laden sleep just rarin' to go. No sludgy hour to wake up, I just could not stay in bed another minute, put on my workout video and went to it. Almost like I have too much energy and need to burn it off, but thank God, with the motivation and focus to do so.
>
> I had a bit of extra trouble falling asleep, like the neurons of my eyes were firing more rapidly. It also feels like my brain has 'woken up', so I'm enjoying the pleasure of just thinking about things again. But if waking isn't the problem it used to be, then I can live with a few less hours (and hours and hours) of non-restoritave sleep.
>
> This almost feels hypomanic, but without the frazzled disorganization of that state. I have much more energy, more drive and focus, and feel so much more curious and open to what's going on OUTSIDE of me than dwelling on the sad inside of me.
>
> I don't want to push this level up for at least another week because going manic is not part of my plan. But really folks, this feels like a completely different med and so far I like it very much. I'm going to take Iago's advice and ask my pdoc for Xanax instead of the Klonopin. I'd like to have a soothing safety net if needed and Klonopin doesn't have that soothing quality for me anymore. More later... - BarbaraHi Barbara,
I'm glad to hear the Remeron increase worked so fast.
I wish you continued success!Best Wishes,
John
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 14, 2002, at 5:35:02
In reply to Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 13, 2002, at 13:50:52
Hi there Barb,
'Allahu akbar', this is Arabic and means 'God is great' and is what those guys say when something really good pops up upon their lives...
Yes, my dear, it can be just that simple. Sounds like it started up just good enough on you. But we both want that change in mood to last and grow firm like a rock don't we, precious girl?
This is why I burn of curiousity to learn what comes next, so please keep us all posted and tell us about all that is going on. (It is a keen pleasure to read you 'even' (or should I say 'especially'?) when I have to look up in the dictionary your sometimes 'difficult' but always charming words).Wish you all good.
Yours sincerely,
Iago> Geez, is it this simple? Raise the dosage of Remeron enough to kick in the NE and all the dopey dozey stuff is gone? I'm on day 3 after taking 56.25 mg (1-1/4 45mg tab). Woke up after 7 hours of technocolor episodic dream-laden sleep just rarin' to go. No sludgy hour to wake up, I just could not stay in bed another minute, put on my workout video and went to it. Almost like I have too much energy and need to burn it off, but thank God, with the motivation and focus to do so.
>
> I had a bit of extra trouble falling asleep, like the neurons of my eyes were firing more rapidly. It also feels like my brain has 'woken up', so I'm enjoying the pleasure of just thinking about things again. But if waking isn't the problem it used to be, then I can live with a few less hours (and hours and hours) of non-restoritave sleep.
>
> This almost feels hypomanic, but without the frazzled disorganization of that state. I have much more energy, more drive and focus, and feel so much more curious and open to what's going on OUTSIDE of me than dwelling on the sad inside of me.
>
> I don't want to push this level up for at least another week because going manic is not part of my plan. But really folks, this feels like a completely different med and so far I like it very much. I'm going to take Iago's advice and ask my pdoc for Xanax instead of the Klonopin. I'd like to have a soothing safety net if needed and Klonopin doesn't have that soothing quality for me anymore. More later... - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2002, at 11:38:57
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » BarbaraCat, posted by Bob on May 13, 2002, at 22:46:02
Bob,
I've never been dx'd with OCD but as far as rumination, when going through a depressed episode I tend to ruminate excessively. Can't get a thought out of my head, dwelling on past events, excessive worry about the future. I can't say that Remeron has helped with any of that since I'm not actively 'depressed', however it's always a moment-to-moment challenge to overcome a tendency to worry and obsess about bad things happening. I honestly don't know if that's a personality quirk, OCD, or just a normal reaction to an out of balance, screwed up world. I seem to remember that Zoloft helped alot with the worrying, but on Zoloft I didn't give much of a hoot about anything, which was why I wanted off of it.> Barbara (or anyone else on Remeron):
>
> I assume you don't have any type of OCD or rumination problems? I've heard that Remeron doesn't help with that much.
>
> Bob
Posted by Bob on May 14, 2002, at 13:34:24
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on May 14, 2002, at 5:35:02
> Hi there Barb,
>
> 'Allahu akbar', this is Arabic and means 'God is great' and is what those guys say when something really good pops up upon their lives...
> Yes, my dear, it can be just that simple. Sounds like it started up just good enough on you. But we both want that change in mood to last and grow firm like a rock don't we, precious girl?
> This is why I burn of curiousity to learn what comes next, so please keep us all posted and tell us about all that is going on. (It is a keen pleasure to read you 'even' (or should I say 'especially'?) when I have to look up in the dictionary your sometimes 'difficult' but always charming words).
>
> Wish you all good.
> Yours sincerely,
> Iago
>
Barbara:I have to agree with Iago here. I am extremely pleased to hear that you got an immediate and positive response to your increase in the Remeron dosage. It is heartening. However, we must all remain vigilant, and see if the response develops into a dependable condition. I hope to hear from you in 1 week, 1 month, etc., and I want to hear good things!
Bob
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2002, at 15:52:06
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » BarbaraCat, posted by Iago Camboa on May 14, 2002, at 5:35:02
>(It is a keen pleasure to read you 'even' (or should I say 'especially'?) when I have to look up in the dictionary your sometimes 'difficult' but always charming words).
>
> Wish you all good.
> Yours sincerely,
> Iago
>You mean words like 'smooch'? Well, a smooch to you, my friend.
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2002, at 16:43:56
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » Iago Camboa, posted by Bob on May 14, 2002, at 13:34:24
Hi folks, and thanks for all your encouragement and good words. Today, not so good. One of our cats, our littlest 8 month old got hurt last night, torn up and bleeding. Probably another animal. I can be philosophical and realistic about it -- cats going outdoors are vulnerable, it's part of life, at least he survived and will mend, he probably instigated it anyway. But it really affected me, seeing such an innocent joy-filled little spark of life whom I love so much suffering and in pain. This formerly little bouncing happy critter barely able to walk, wariness and fear instead of that pure delight and trust in a kitten's (or child's) eyes.
It brought back so forcefully what I try to defend myself against, which is the sadness and fear in this world, this existence that is so hard to bear sometimes. The fear that anything I open my heart up to will be ripped away, and it drives home that old hypervigilence and mistrust. It brings back memories of my own difficult and dangerous childhood with a very disturbed father and how innocence is so often betrayed. So I didn't get much sleep, had dreams where all life and goodness was in threat, and woke up feeling zonked out, tired and depressed.
I'm just trying to be with sad feelings that are just as prevalent today, for everyone it seems, as they were for a sad little girl of many years past. Even though I consider myself a survivor and very strong and resourceful, there are things that really hit hard and bring me way down. Those things trigger a fear that the Universe is ultimately a dangerous and unfriendly place, under the control of a mad Diety and then I get scared and don't recognize peace or goodwill anymore.
This has to be healed in a way that drugs can only support. I don't want real and valid grief to be ignored and masked, but I'm counting on my meds to keep it contained and not let it go spiralling out of control into despair. So maybe better news tomorrow. It always gets better, but you never quite trust that advice when darkness is all that seems real. - Barbara
Posted by Ritch on May 14, 2002, at 21:58:14
In reply to Remeron increase - Day 4. A sad one., posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2002, at 16:43:56
> Hi folks, and thanks for all your encouragement and good words. Today, not so good. One of our cats, our littlest 8 month old got hurt last night, torn up and bleeding. Probably another animal. I can be philosophical and realistic about it -- cats going outdoors are vulnerable, it's part of life, at least he survived and will mend, he probably instigated it anyway. But it really affected me, seeing such an innocent joy-filled little spark of life whom I love so much suffering and in pain. This formerly little bouncing happy critter barely able to walk, wariness and fear instead of that pure delight and trust in a kitten's (or child's) eyes.
>
> It brought back so forcefully what I try to defend myself against, which is the sadness and fear in this world, this existence that is so hard to bear sometimes. The fear that anything I open my heart up to will be ripped away, and it drives home that old hypervigilence and mistrust. It brings back memories of my own difficult and dangerous childhood with a very disturbed father and how innocence is so often betrayed. So I didn't get much sleep, had dreams where all life and goodness was in threat, and woke up feeling zonked out, tired and depressed.
>
> I'm just trying to be with sad feelings that are just as prevalent today, for everyone it seems, as they were for a sad little girl of many years past. Even though I consider myself a survivor and very strong and resourceful, there are things that really hit hard and bring me way down. Those things trigger a fear that the Universe is ultimately a dangerous and unfriendly place, under the control of a mad Diety and then I get scared and don't recognize peace or goodwill anymore.
>
> This has to be healed in a way that drugs can only support. I don't want real and valid grief to be ignored and masked, but I'm counting on my meds to keep it contained and not let it go spiralling out of control into despair. So maybe better news tomorrow. It always gets better, but you never quite trust that advice when darkness is all that seems real. - Barbara
Barb,Just an observation, but you seem to have reactive type depressive symptoms. I wonder if you might be better off on an MAOI like phenelzine or tranylcypromine or something like that. (I think I would) Just wondering. I doubt if you can mix Remeron and MAOI's. I can't remember anyone posting anything about that.
Mitch
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 14, 2002, at 22:01:17
In reply to Remeron increase - Day 4. A sad one., posted by BarbaraCat on May 14, 2002, at 16:43:56
> Hi folks, and thanks for all your encouragement and good words. Today, not so good. One of our cats, our littlest 8 month old got hurt last night, torn up and bleeding. Probably another animal. I can be philosophical and realistic about it -- cats going outdoors are vulnerable, it's part of life, at least he survived and will mend, he probably instigated it anyway. But it really affected me, seeing such an innocent joy-filled little spark of life whom I love so much suffering and in pain. This formerly little bouncing happy critter barely able to walk, wariness and fear instead of that pure delight and trust in a kitten's (or child's) eyes.
>
> It brought back so forcefully what I try to defend myself against, which is the sadness and fear in this world, this existence that is so hard to bear sometimes. The fear that anything I open my heart up to will be ripped away, and it drives home that old hypervigilence and mistrust. It brings back memories of my own difficult and dangerous childhood with a very disturbed father and how innocence is so often betrayed. So I didn't get much sleep, had dreams where all life and goodness was in threat, and woke up feeling zonked out, tired and depressed.
>
> I'm just trying to be with sad feelings that are just as prevalent today, for everyone it seems, as they were for a sad little girl of many years past. Even though I consider myself a survivor and very strong and resourceful, there are things that really hit hard and bring me way down. Those things trigger a fear that the Universe is ultimately a dangerous and unfriendly place, under the control of a mad Diety and then I get scared and don't recognize peace or goodwill anymore.
>
> This has to be healed in a way that drugs can only support. I don't want real and valid grief to be ignored and masked, but I'm counting on my meds to keep it contained and not let it go spiralling out of control into despair. So maybe better news tomorrow. It always gets better, but you never quite trust that advice when darkness is all that seems real. - BarbaraSorry, about your cat -- it is really hard on us when something happens to our animals. I have a dog and cat and had another cat over year ago who died suddenly. I was devastated.
You need to feel the sad feelings when there is really something to feel sad about. However, it sounds like the boost with your Remeron is helping. Take care. SarahMarie
Posted by fairnymph on May 15, 2002, at 1:14:02
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » BarbaraCat, posted by Bob on May 13, 2002, at 22:46:02
Actually, Remeron CAN work for OCD, though it did not help me, unfortunately...
See:
Koran LM, Quirk T, Lorberbaum JP, Elliott M. Mirtazapine treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder. J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2001 Oct;21(5):537-9.(I actually participated in this specific study)
~fairnymph
> Barbara (or anyone else on Remeron):
>
> I assume you don't have any type of OCD or rumination problems? I've heard that Remeron doesn't help with that much.
>
> Bob
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 15, 2002, at 1:19:52
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 4. A sad one. » BarbaraCat, posted by Ritch on May 14, 2002, at 21:58:14
> Barb,
>
> Just an observation, but you seem to have reactive type depressive symptoms. I wonder if you might be better off on an MAOI like phenelzine or tranylcypromine or something like that.What are these MAOI's? I'm not familiar with them as typical ones used in the USA. MAOI's are the one class of ADs I've never tried, and I'm very leery of the dietary restrictions. Aren't there newer reversable ones that that are more forgiving?
One other (probably crucial) point in all this is that my mail order pharmacy didn't get my lithium prescription refilled for over a week and I ran out during this time. I think some of my earlier hypomanic symptoms were due to this - recall the dancing for hours a few nights ago, needing less sleep, life is dazzzzzling. I become like an over-reactive fuse during these times and the scales are easily tipped. I just received my pills and started taking them again this afternoon, so even though this may add new variables to the *research* data, the lithium seems to be a necessary parameter.
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 15, 2002, at 6:34:17
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 4. » Ritch, posted by BarbaraCat on May 15, 2002, at 1:19:52
Hi Barb and you'all,
I think all contributions (Bob's, Mitch's, SarahMarie's, Fairnymph's, etc.) from your friends should be acknowledged here and thanked but I fear we risk to do more harm than good to the patient with the excess of medicine. We've got to win this war with our actual troops and other material, rather than beginning it all afresh with a new army (that is to say another AD, be it a MAOI, TCA, SSRI or other): it is neither economical nor reasonable at all. All the more right as we know the patient (you!) has indeed begun responding well to the reinforcement of the Rem's dose!
[Let it be said here between brackets that if I fall gravely ill I hope my wife will have the good sense to call in a single doctor to take care of me, because if she gets three doctors instead they will kill me for sure before they can agree on the most adequated treatment for my (supposed) illness...]
> I just received my pills and started taking them again this afternoon, so even though this may add new variables to the *research* data, the lithium seems to be a necessary parameter.
Here I agree 100%. To remove the lithium now would only add to the 'problem'.
> Sorry, about your cat -- it is really hard on us when something happens to our animals. I have a dog and cat and had another cat over year ago who died suddenly. I was devastated.
>
> You need to feel the sad feelings when there is really something to feel sad about. However, it sounds like the boost with your Remeron is helping. Take care. SarahMarieSarah is right, yes. And you don't look any bit more depressed this 4th day at all. I'm sorry about the kitten too but those are resourceful beasts: he will recover in a while if it is not already done as I write this down.
> I'm just trying to be with sad feelings that are just as prevalent today, for everyone it seems, as they were for a sad little girl of many years past. Even though I consider myself a survivor and very strong and resourceful, there are things that really hit hard and bring me way down. Those things trigger a fear that the Universe is ultimately a dangerous and unfriendly place, under the control of a mad Diety and then I get scared and don't recognize peace or goodwill anymore.
I'd rather think of a mischievous impish child-Deity for whom all the Universe is a matter of laugh, mockery and derision...
> So maybe better news tomorrow. It always gets better, but you never quite trust that advice when darkness is all that seems real. - Barbara
This is positive speech indeed, my friend. Go ahead and take care.
> You mean words like 'smooch'? Well, a smooch to you, my friend.
I meant words like 'smooch', yes! A tender one to you too.
Yours,
Iago
Posted by Ritch on May 15, 2002, at 10:13:22
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 4. » Ritch, posted by BarbaraCat on May 15, 2002, at 1:19:52
> > Barb,
> >
> > Just an observation, but you seem to have reactive type depressive symptoms. I wonder if you might be better off on an MAOI like phenelzine or tranylcypromine or something like that.
>
> What are these MAOI's? I'm not familiar with them as typical ones used in the USA. MAOI's are the one class of ADs I've never tried, and I'm very leery of the dietary restrictions. Aren't there newer reversable ones that that are more forgiving?
>
> One other (probably crucial) point in all this is that my mail order pharmacy didn't get my lithium prescription refilled for over a week and I ran out during this time. I think some of my earlier hypomanic symptoms were due to this - recall the dancing for hours a few nights ago, needing less sleep, life is dazzzzzling. I become like an over-reactive fuse during these times and the scales are easily tipped. I just received my pills and started taking them again this afternoon, so even though this may add new variables to the *research* data, the lithium seems to be a necessary parameter.
Barb,I haven't tried MAOI's yet either. I too, am leery about them because of my tendency to hyperrespond to medications and side effects. There is moclobemide (avail. in Canada), that doesn't have the dietary restrictions and I would love to try. There is selegiline (Eldeprenyl), which has no dietary restrictions at the recommended dosage and is available here in the US (I think it is a little pricey). Ah!, so you were without lithium for few days, heh? It could have a been a rebound withdrawal effect of the lithium. I remember when I was just taking 300mg at bedtime, and missed a dose, I definitely could tell the next day.
Mitch
Posted by Bob on May 15, 2002, at 12:10:53
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom!, posted by fairnymph on May 15, 2002, at 1:14:02
> Actually, Remeron CAN work for OCD, though it did not help me, unfortunately...
>
> See:
> Koran LM, Quirk T, Lorberbaum JP, Elliott M. Mirtazapine treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder. J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2001 Oct;21(5):537-9.
>
> (I actually participated in this specific study)
>
> ~fairnymph
>
>
How do I find that study? Is it available on the internet?
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 17, 2002, at 3:56:34
In reply to Re: Remeron increase - Day 3 Zoooom! » fairnymph, posted by Bob on May 15, 2002, at 12:10:53
1. 'Barbchen' is German for 'Sweet-Little-Barbara'
2. There is a German proverb that translated into English reads: 'No news, good news!'
3. Our 'ungrateful' precious dear little one is having a lot of fun below on another thread! I.
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