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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ponder on January 24, 2002, at 14:15:11
Sometimes I feel both terribly anxious yet exhausted at the same time. I have PRN Rxs for stimulating drugs (modafinil, ritalin) and also Benzos (Ativan), but sometimes don't know which one I need. Am I correct in assuming that one would counteract the other making it counterproductive to take both?
Posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 15:51:53
In reply to Uppers or Downers?, posted by Ponder on January 24, 2002, at 14:15:11
Just going to give my opinion & personal experiences = you may not respond the same.
I use adrafinil. It's not something I get an immediate effect from like a normal stimulant or a tranquiliser does. I take it every day on a regular basis to benefit from it. When I ran out of my supply cause of an ordering mix-up, the benefits I had from it took about a week to fade. Starting up again, it still took the regular time to work again.
The point I'm getting to is that long-term use (greater than 3 weeks) has given me a wonderful calming effect besides the alertness & focus. A drug interaction program I have doesn't mention either an inhibition of an increase of taking benzos or modafinil together. They are thought to work on different pathways of the brain besides. I used alprazolam (Xanax) once with the adrafinil when I had a migraine & wanted to get a good night's sleep. No problem with it. Adrafinil doesn't interfer with my sleep anyway but I wanted to fall asleep quickly.
The different pathways used by benzos & stims don't seem to cancel each other out. When I took exams at university, along with my Dexedrine, I'd take alprazolam. I get psyched up too easily & answers I'd know the night before would otherwise fly out my brain from nerves. I had the focus that Dexedrine brings to me but the calmness of the benzo. Long-term use of adrafinil does that for me now much smoother & better without wearing off. I'm not using Dexedrine or benzos now with the adrafinil.
Has adrafinil/modafinil been useful for you? And do you take it regularly? Different posters here have found different effects. Manowar & a few others besides me swears by it. 3 Beer Effect & some others say it does nothing or had unpleasant side effects for them. I'm sure it has to be used long-term like ADs for proper success with it, not a quick effect like benzos or stims.
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> Sometimes I feel both terribly anxious yet exhausted at the same time. I have PRN Rxs for stimulating drugs (modafinil, ritalin) and also Benzos (Ativan), but sometimes don't know which one I need. Am I correct in assuming that one would counteract the other making it counterproductive to take both?
Posted by JohnX2 on January 24, 2002, at 20:53:45
In reply to Uppers or Downers?, posted by Ponder on January 24, 2002, at 14:15:11
I found that after taking Adderall for an
overextended period of time that I was both
anxious and exhausted. The exhaustion came
from the medicine using up my bodies supply of
natural energy reserves. Could this be what is
happening in your scenario? The antidote in
my case was to cut back on my Adderall dosing
and eat more food (get more fuel into my body).
I was inadvertly eating less because the stimulant
killed my appetite.I did take Adderall with Klonopin for a while
and I found that there was a balancing act between
the two meds in order to offset the drowsiness
induced by Klonopin and the stimulation by the
Adderall. oTo much Klonopin and no Adderall kick.
Too much Adderall and I felt frantic.BTW, I don't advocate taking a stimulant
with a benzo. Its going to be a downward spiral
at somepoint when the body becomes tolerant to
one or the other. Just my opinion (and horrendous
exerience).Regards,
John
> Sometimes I feel both terribly anxious yet exhausted at the same time. I have PRN Rxs for stimulating drugs (modafinil, ritalin) and also Benzos (Ativan), but sometimes don't know which one I need. Am I correct in assuming that one would counteract the other making it counterproductive to take both?
Posted by finelinebob on January 24, 2002, at 21:29:00
In reply to Re: Uppers or Downers? » Ponder, posted by JohnX2 on January 24, 2002, at 20:53:45
Sorry, couldn't pass up a near-Pete Townsend line, especially since it's from Quadrophenia....
I take klonopin and ritalin. Neither interferes with the other for me. YMMV.
cheers,
flb
Posted by Ponder on January 25, 2002, at 16:22:00
In reply to Re: Uppers or Downers? » Ponder, posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 15:51:53
Hmmm...guess I haven't thought of Modafinil as a drug that required steady and sustained dosing in order to work well. I thought of it more as Ritalin, which my P-doc told me to take PRN.
For me, the anxiety seems to come first, gradually building up over several weeks. The constant onslaught of catecholimines exhausts me and I collapse into depression. I'm not a scientist, just how it feels to me.
If I'm not mistaken, Adrafinil is not available in the US. Seems I've seen on this board comments that it acts differently from Modafinil.
Anyway, thanks for the input.
> Just going to give my opinion & personal experiences = you may not respond the same.
>
> I use adrafinil. It's not something I get an immediate effect from like a normal stimulant or a tranquiliser does. I take it every day on a regular basis to benefit from it. When I ran out of my supply cause of an ordering mix-up, the benefits I had from it took about a week to fade. Starting up again, it still took the regular time to work again.
>
> The point I'm getting to is that long-term use (greater than 3 weeks) has given me a wonderful calming effect besides the alertness & focus. A drug interaction program I have doesn't mention either an inhibition of an increase of taking benzos or modafinil together. They are thought to work on different pathways of the brain besides. I used alprazolam (Xanax) once with the adrafinil when I had a migraine & wanted to get a good night's sleep. No problem with it. Adrafinil doesn't interfer with my sleep anyway but I wanted to fall asleep quickly.
>
> The different pathways used by benzos & stims don't seem to cancel each other out. When I took exams at university, along with my Dexedrine, I'd take alprazolam. I get psyched up too easily & answers I'd know the night before would otherwise fly out my brain from nerves. I had the focus that Dexedrine brings to me but the calmness of the benzo. Long-term use of adrafinil does that for me now much smoother & better without wearing off. I'm not using Dexedrine or benzos now with the adrafinil.
>
> Has adrafinil/modafinil been useful for you? And do you take it regularly? Different posters here have found different effects. Manowar & a few others besides me swears by it. 3 Beer Effect & some others say it does nothing or had unpleasant side effects for them. I'm sure it has to be used long-term like ADs for proper success with it, not a quick effect like benzos or stims.
>
> **********************************************************************************************
>
> > Sometimes I feel both terribly anxious yet exhausted at the same time. I have PRN Rxs for stimulating drugs (modafinil, ritalin) and also Benzos (Ativan), but sometimes don't know which one I need. Am I correct in assuming that one would counteract the other making it counterproductive to take both?
Posted by IsoM on January 25, 2002, at 17:45:23
In reply to Re: Uppers or Downers?, posted by Ponder on January 25, 2002, at 16:22:00
I wouldn't be adverse to using modafinil if it was cheaper. One of the main metabolites of adrafinil is modafinil so using adrafinil, you're using modafinil & the other metabolite that adrafinil forms.
It takes fully a week of adrafinil daily before I notice a difference. It starts off small & builds over the next few weeks, which is why I patiently use a low dose & wait.
Posted by manowar on January 25, 2002, at 18:33:39
In reply to Uppers or Downers?, posted by Ponder on January 24, 2002, at 14:15:11
> Sometimes I feel both terribly anxious yet exhausted at the same time. I have PRN Rxs for stimulating drugs (modafinil, ritalin) and also Benzos (Ativan), but sometimes don't know which one I need. Am I correct in assuming that one would counteract the other making it counterproductive to take both?
Not at all,
For me, I consider Klonipin to be the main ingredient in my drug mix. I have Cyclothymia along with ADD, and the Klonipin is the only "mood stabilizer" I could ever tolerate. My doctor told me that mood stabilization (even if it slightly slows my brain down) was the most important component to my improvement. The only times that I’ve done well in combating my depression --Klonipin was in the mix. I believe that the Klonipin calms my brain so that the other psychoactive drugs can do their thing.Since the Klonipin mood stabilizing effects seem to last me for a full 24 hour period, I take my entire dose (1.5 mg) in the evening. Then when I get up in the morning, I take my Wellbutrin (150 mg) along with Modafinil (Provigil-200 mg). I’ve noticed an interesting phenomenon: It seems that when I’m on Klonipin that the pstims (not just Modafinil but Ritalin and Adderal too…) seem to be more effective. I think that Klonipin is the “yang” to the pstims, which are the “ying”. Since benzos act by increasing GABA, which inhibits catecholamine neurotransmission, basically my brain shuts up and I can have a peaceful night of sleep. In the morning when I take my pstims, it’s like the dopamine and noradrenaline are ready for action, and I normally feel pretty good, and cognitively alert, while still receiving the calming benefits from the Klonipin.
A couple months ago, a few weeks after I had stopped taking Klonipin, I noticed that the pstims made my depression worse, and I was a nervous wreck. My pdoc took me off pstims altogether at that point. Once I got my Klonipin back, I again did well with my pstims.
In summary, as opposed as acting against one an other, I think that the Klonipin + pstims is a synergistic combo. For me that is…
Tim
Posted by Michael K. Junk on April 9, 2002, at 18:11:41
In reply to For me BOTH!, posted by manowar on January 25, 2002, at 18:33:39
No folks. The problem with ManoWar is Klonopin addiction!!! The reason he got worse was because his body was crying out for the benzodiazepine (Klonopin). It is really common sense. Amazing how few physicians (in the USA anyway, not so much in Europe) know about Benzo Hell. A tranquilizer (Klonopin) and a stimulant (Adderall) is a train wreck in the brain. One is a powerful downer (to tranquilize), the other a powerful upper (to stimulate). Common sense says that can only go so well - for so long. That's a prescription for multiple addictions and multiple problems that you don't EVEN want to think about.
This post from Manowar was a perfect example of why you must be careful when reading these posts.
Posted by glendean on June 11, 2002, at 14:10:26
In reply to Re: For me BOTH! » manowar, posted by Michael K. Junk on April 9, 2002, at 18:11:41
I'm on clonazepram is that generic for Klonopin? My doc said it was a tranquilizer to get off of celexa. Are there effects I should be worried about? My doc didn't say much eventhough I told him I was worried about taking it.
This is the end of the thread.
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