![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 8:59:23
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » Squiggles, posted by J. Wesley on December 24, 2002, at 8:47:07
Hi J. Wesley,
I don't rightly know what it was, nor did any
of the doctors who saw me.But this is what happened: after a year and a half
of withdrawing from 1.0 mg Klonopin, in very minute
decrements, and finally reaching 0.125, i was sitting
at the computer and i felt something like electric
cable climbing up my spine/head area. They then seemed
to catch on fire and a boomerang like strike on the
back middle of the head hit me. After that,
the whole head was on fire, it seemed.I lost memory for a while, and could not walk straight
for a week. My blood pressure seemed to go up and down
wildly and i was sweating. I had terrible pain and
disorientation. I became quite ill and took to my bed
for about a month. Sleep was very strange as i would
fall into and out of consciousness/sleep at strange
intervals. My pupils were contracted and stayed that
way. The pain in my head was excruciating.It took a month to get better.
I don't know what that was but i guess a seizure or
stroke or aneurysm, because the year before while
still withdrawing, my head started bobbing, and i had
become very dehydrated. At that time i went to
an emergency doctor who said i was having myoclonic
seizures and advised me not to withdraw on the net
as i could get a real seizure, and then what would
i do? Indeed, i should have taken his advice.I am still feeling the heat waves from that incident;
i know something happened but i am not sure what.
Anyway, i am better, but it was probably the worst
period of my life - getting of Klonopin. I did not
by the way, i had to raise it.Squiggles
Posted by J. Wesley on December 24, 2002, at 10:43:10
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » J. Wesley, posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 8:59:23
> Hi J. Wesley,
>
> I don't rightly know what it was, nor did any
> of the doctors who saw me.
>
> But this is what happened: after a year and a half
> of withdrawing from 1.0 mg Klonopin, in very minute
> decrements, and finally reaching 0.125, i was sitting
> at the computer and i felt something like electric
> cable climbing up my spine/head area. They then seemed
> to catch on fire and a boomerang like strike on the
> back middle of the head hit me. After that,
> the whole head was on fire, it seemed.
>
> I lost memory for a while, and could not walk straight
> for a week. My blood pressure seemed to go up and down
> wildly and i was sweating. I had terrible pain and
> disorientation. I became quite ill and took to my bed
> for about a month. Sleep was very strange as i would
> fall into and out of consciousness/sleep at strange
> intervals. My pupils were contracted and stayed that
> way. The pain in my head was excruciating.
>
> It took a month to get better.
>
> I don't know what that was but i guess a seizure or
> stroke or aneurysm, because the year before while
> still withdrawing, my head started bobbing, and i had
> become very dehydrated. At that time i went to
> an emergency doctor who said i was having myoclonic
> seizures and advised me not to withdraw on the net
> as i could get a real seizure, and then what would
> i do? Indeed, i should have taken his advice.
>
> I am still feeling the heat waves from that incident;
> i know something happened but i am not sure what.
> Anyway, i am better, but it was probably the worst
> period of my life - getting of Klonopin. I did not
> by the way, i had to raise it.
>
> Squiggle
___________________________________Hmm...I guess the main thing is that you survived and are better now.
I'm still puzzled though. I'm assuming the doctors did a battery of neurological and endocrinology tests, mri, eeg, blood workup, etc. to rule in or out any possible causes. Anything less would seem to me to be cause for concern about the medical care you received. The symptomology you presented with should have raised any number of red flags that the doctors should have investigated, I would think rather aggresively.
Since you didn't mention anything about what type of medical care you received to figure out what caused this cluster of symptoms, I'm left with a lot of questions.
To simply increase your dosage of klonopin to get you stabilized, after such a long period of time withdrawing from such a low dose sounds ludicrous to me from a medical standpoint.
But I wasn't there, so I have to accept that the level of medical care you received was acceptable to you and your doctors.
I suppose there are worse things in life than having to take a small dosage of klonopin to maintain quality of life.
Oh well....thank you for responding.
Happy Holidays to you,
J. Wesley
Posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 11:12:58
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » Squiggles, posted by J. Wesley on December 24, 2002, at 10:43:10
J. Wesley,
I am infact comforted by your concern. I will
be happy to answer your questions, because
i feel i was ill enough to die.My husband was the one who told me to up the dose
when he saw me in that state, which i did, first
0.250 and then 5.0 and eventually 1.0 and after
1.50 - that is what i am at now.My mother came and she was very concerned about
my state and actually dragged my dr. to the phone
from another job she was doing. My mother described
the symptoms and my dr. said i had withdrawals.In the meantime i did not get better, and i was
so frightened i went to emergency; i got some
movement tests and the young dr. could not find
anything.Then i called a private doctor, who saw me and
thought maybe the spine had something to do with it
and definitely the withdrawal. She ordered an
Electroencephalogram, an X-RAY for the spine and
a nerve (for hands) test.The EEG was OK though the nurse told me i may have
looked up a neurologist and also i went quite late
after the event - if it was a seizure it may not
have shown. The neurologist told me i did not have
carpal tunnel, but the nerves in the hands were ok.When I saw my dr. he asked what i thought it was --
and i said i thought it was encephalopathy and he
asked why and i said i read it in The Merck.Anyway, he said if i wanted to get off i would have
to wait another 6 months ( which i dared not do
after that experience); and i asked if i could bring
it up again to 1.50 and he said that was fine if i felt
more comfortable.So, i had to raise the dose to stop the most severe
symptoms, but the remnants of that are still with me
though fading.I would not blame my dr. - I think many drs. are
unfamiliar with these drugs. I mean it is hard
to believe that 1.0 mg (after 15 yrs may be different
though) could cause such distress and misery.Squiggles
Posted by J. Wesley on December 24, 2002, at 14:20:27
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » J. Wesley, posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 11:12:58
> J. Wesley,
>
> I am infact comforted by your concern. I will
> be happy to answer your questions, because
> i feel i was ill enough to die.
>
> My husband was the one who told me to up the dose
> when he saw me in that state, which i did, first
> 0.250 and then 5.0 and eventually 1.0 and after
> 1.50 - that is what i am at now.
>
> My mother came and she was very concerned about
> my state and actually dragged my dr. to the phone
> from another job she was doing. My mother described
> the symptoms and my dr. said i had withdrawals.
>
> In the meantime i did not get better, and i was
> so frightened i went to emergency; i got some
> movement tests and the young dr. could not find
> anything.
>
> Then i called a private doctor, who saw me and
> thought maybe the spine had something to do with it
> and definitely the withdrawal. She ordered an
> Electroencephalogram, an X-RAY for the spine and
> a nerve (for hands) test.
>
> The EEG was OK though the nurse told me i may have
> looked up a neurologist and also i went quite late
> after the event - if it was a seizure it may not
> have shown. The neurologist told me i did not have
> carpal tunnel, but the nerves in the hands were ok.
>
> When I saw my dr. he asked what i thought it was --
> and i said i thought it was encephalopathy and he
> asked why and i said i read it in The Merck.
>
> Anyway, he said if i wanted to get off i would have
> to wait another 6 months ( which i dared not do
> after that experience); and i asked if i could bring
> it up again to 1.50 and he said that was fine if i felt
> more comfortable.
>
> So, i had to raise the dose to stop the most severe
> symptoms, but the remnants of that are still with me
> though fading.
>
> I would not blame my dr. - I think many drs. are
> unfamiliar with these drugs. I mean it is hard
> to believe that 1.0 mg (after 15 yrs may be different
> though) could cause such distress and misery.
>
> Squiggles
________________________________Sounds like a lot of speculation is going on. Not to suggest that the speculation is wrong, because whatever happened to you seems to be improving, though it is hard to know how increasing the klonopin helped, even though you did seem to get some relief with it's reintroduction.
It's obvious that something happened to you, but it's very difficult to tell what exactly happened. My concern lies in the slow recovery with the increase in klonopin. If it was only a withdrawal problem associated with the klonopin, the increase in klonopin should have brought about a much quicker resolution to your symptoms. This leads me to suspect, for whatever reason, you must have had some type of event that caused damage to your CNS.
It's impossible to know whether that event was a result of withdrawing from klonopin or some event unrelated to the withdrawal. I'm not a doctor, but am well versed in the benzo's and many other drugs and medicine in general. Just don't ask me about biochemistry, please. IMO, the slow return to *normalcy* indicates that there was some insult to your brain, and your natural healing process is what is bringing you back to relative health.
It's a shame that you weren't able to have a neurological specialist overseeing your medical care immediately following the onset of your initial symtoms. The specialist could have ruled out many of your speculations with brain imaging techniques and other tests, and quite possibly found a cause. I agree that the typical doctor doesn't have the skills to adequately evaluate your symptoms, nor do they truely have time to understand the intricacies associated with the use of the benzo's. So no blame should be cast upon them. But they should have known this was out of their league and asked for a consult with a specialist.
I don't know what your situation is, but if you have the resources, and are so inclined, I would encourage you to try to find a neurological specialist and explain your story, express your concerns and ask for a full neurological workup, including an mri. Since you are still having some symptoms, it may not be too late to discover the cause. Also, if there was a serious insult to your CNS, often the damaged area remains, but other parts of the brain adapt and pick up those fuctions that the damaged area can no longer fulfill. These damaged areas can often be picked up with different imaging techniques and other tests.....I'm sure you know all this.
On the other hand I could be way off base. It could be something as simple as withdrawals. However, your typical doctor is quick to dismiss what could be serious problems when they know you have any of the brain disorders.
In a nutshell, my concern for you is that if your problems were related to withdrawal from klonopin, reintroducing it should have brought about a much quicker response to your symptoms. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I wouldn't look at the reduction in klonopin as the only causative factor, despite what inexperienced doctors may have to say about it.
Wishing you good health,
J. Wesley
Posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 14:48:04
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » Squiggles, posted by J. Wesley on December 24, 2002, at 14:20:27
Hi J. Wesley,
You are very kind to spend so much time on
this; yes, i agree some damage to the CNS
may have happened - it was the hottest summer
on record in Montreal, and who knows maybe
the lithium kicked in or the combination of
heat and withdrawal did that;I notice that i have had some olphactory hallucinations
but i had that before too - maybe a meningitis
problem or something; i really don't know.Actually, i asked my dr. if i could see a
psychiatrist for lithium fine tuning or something
more technical but he told me i did not need
one.I think that more than being sick i fear offending
my doctor; i am not quite sure what to do so
i go along with things and take the easy way
out. Perhaps, i will change my ways if i could
meet someone on the net who lived in Montreal
and knew about these things.Anyway, i thank you very much and wish
a great holiday season.Squiggles
Posted by HIBA on December 24, 2002, at 23:29:35
In reply to Re: Question about Klonopin » HIBA, posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 7:20:56
Hello Squiggles,
Happy holidays in advance. Thanks for your advise. But I must think your friend is pretty lucky to get the same effect of an AD even after continuous use without escalating the dosage. No antidepressants retain their efficacy in the long run and tolerance to their mechanisms occurs much more rapidly. Depression heals itself or the person acquires an immunity to resist it naturally and what antidepressants do in the long run is only alleviating those symptoms of psychological dependence, which ADs themselves inflicted.I think this is the truth behind long-term effective antidepressant therapy. Those whose depression is of biological reasons, (as a chemical imbalance in the brain)will usually have to compromise with dose of antidepressants and change the medications in order to get an effect. Once tolerance to an AD occured, it will no longer be effective even after years. This could be particularly true in the case of SSRIs.
The drug you mentioned is not an SSRI but it is an atypical antidepressant in the class of trazodone, or we can say it is a modified version of trazodone. Trazodone's use in male patients is limited, because of the risk of priapism and usually it takes the maximum dose to do any good to a depressed individual. Nefazodone itself is a mild antidepressant, which never came upto the enthusiasm of scientists. It was a very promising agent in pre-marketing clinical trials, but new studies suggest it is only effective in milder forms of depression. If it works well, yor friend is lucky. That's all I can say.
I am not sure whether prozac scientists did really win Nobel prize for their "wonder drug". Viagra scientists won that prize as well deserved. But in Prozac's case I am not that convinced. It could be a fourteen years old story, and I will have refresh my memory. Can you please provide a link ?
Thanks Squiggles, take care and happy holidays once again
HIBA
Posted by jimmygold70 on December 25, 2002, at 11:35:26
In reply to Question about Klonopin, posted by doboy on December 23, 2002, at 11:55:59
It would be quite difficult (though possible) for her to stop. I did it. Anyway, it is not that useful for the indications given to her. Prozac and the like (SSRIs) will do much better.
Jimmy
> Good morning.
> Firstly, I must say that I am new to this site and I am unsure of how to go about using a forum such as this.
> Secondly, I would appreciate any help with a problem that I may or may not have.
> My wife has had various forms of anxieties and some depressive episodes over many years with some very bad panic attacks interspersed. She has been prescribed klonopin for over 6 years and has taken it daily. What worries me is what I have read about it's addictive potential. How many 0.5 milligram tablets is too many for her to be taking in one day and should I be keeping a closer eye on what she takes? Also, how do I do this without seeming suspicious and mistrustful?
> thank you
> DB
Posted by Squiggles on December 26, 2002, at 9:11:54
In reply to Re: Question about Klonopin » Squiggles, posted by HIBA on December 24, 2002, at 23:29:35
Hi HIBA,
I was sure that i saw a link on the Nobel being
given to a scientist trio for the SSRI Prozac drug,
but in humility, i can only now find something
indirect.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/963516.stm
I confirmed btw, that the drug my friend is on IS
Nefazadone, and it has been a switch from long
time use of Imipramine (like 15 or 20 yrs); the latter
was a never ending experience of misery, anxiety,
and insomnia. It was never raised to my knowledge,
and i was not aware that ADs unlike benzos and alcohol
and some narcotics, were actually "addicting".As for the nature of depression, it seems to me
to be a Catch-22 puzzle - if you are on the drug
given for depression then your symptoms are alleviated;
if you get off the drug after many years, you cannot
see the initial state because the withdrawals induce
depression themselves. If they do not induce depression,
then they cause such unbearable withdrawal that the
subject has to go on again - eliminating any possibility
of seeing what the person is "really like now".Squiggles
p.s. sorry i took some time to reply - i am happy to
say i prepared a nice Christmas dinner.hope everyone had a nice holiday, and wishing you
peace in the coming year.Squiggles
Posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:27:51
In reply to Re: Squiggles and K withdrawals » J. Wesley, posted by Squiggles on December 24, 2002, at 14:48:04
What do people think of the info on this site?
Peter
Posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 16:07:47
In reply to Scary Benzo web site- Opinions?, posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:27:51
Which people?
And, it's not scary -- it's a place people
go to share their experiences with benzos -
unfortunately they are negative experience -
we can't change reality you know; those who
have good experiences need not go there.Squiggles
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 19:04:07
In reply to Scary Benzo web site- Opinions?, posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:27:51
> What do people think of the info on this site?
>
>
> http://www.benzo.org.uk/
>
> Peter
==============================================I have gone on record telling what I think of this kind of scaremongering. You can look up my posts as to why I think so.
Unfortunately, the vast majority that do not have problems with bzds or who stumble accross this site full of hyperbole and half-truths that want to find out the true PROPORTIONAL, CONTEXTUAL information about these medications because they are considering using them, are needlessly scared away from the very medication that will most likely help them.
This is a site that has as it's fundamental philosophy those things moral and political - not medical. It's information could be best described as "A solution in search of a problem" as opposed to the other way around. It stands all research - and 40+ years of it reviewed by the World Health Organisation as safe in long and short term therapy - directly on it's head.
It is not a support group bboard. It h
Posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 19:18:35
In reply to Re: Scary Benzo web site- Opinions? » Peter S., posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 19:04:07
Excuse me if my message has a hint of rudeness
to it; my aim really is to inform rather than
insult: your attitude does make me wonder
whether you have an axe to grind. Do you happen
to belong to a detox centre funded by drug
companies by any chance, or by the government
agencies which are in cahouts with the drug
companies? Because it seems that experience
(of others, obviously not yours) of benzo addiction
seems to have eluded you altogether.Squiggles
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 20:14:38
In reply to Re: Scary Benzo web site- Opinions? » Alan, posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 19:18:35
> Excuse me if my message has a hint of rudeness
> to it; my aim really is to inform rather than
> insult: your attitude does make me wonder
> whether you have an axe to grind. Do you happen
> to belong to a detox centre funded by drug
> companies by any chance, or by the government
> agencies which are in cahouts with the drug
> companies? Because it seems that experience
> (of others, obviously not yours) of benzo addiction
> seems to have eluded you altogether.
>
> Squiggles
===============================================No and no.
1)No distinction between addiction and medical dependency is the website's philosophical downfall.
2)One can not extrapolate for the general population based on anecdotal or individual experience. The vast majority of competently diagnosed, perscribed, and managed patients undergoing bzd therapy are helped far more than they are hurt. That's the basic criteria on which the manipulation of bodily systems are determined to have an acceptable cost/benefit ratio.
The term "medical dependency" refers to a situation in which the drug continues to exert a beneficial or even indispensable effect, but there is an acknowledgement that the user is not functional without the drug and cannot abruptly stop taking it.
Tolerance is not required for medical dependency, but it may occur. Most often it occurs to some extent in early use and then the effect of the drgug stabilizes. If tolerance were to continue developing indefinitely, any beneficial effect would rather quickly be outweighed by toxicity. Undoubtedly there are situations where this has happened with many types of drugs, not merely psychotropics, but all it really proves is that there are careless and incompetent doctors just as there are careless and incompetent practitioners of every profession, trade, vocation, etc. It doesn't prove anything special about psychotropics.
The distinctions exist because they reflect the way reality naturally sorts into groups of similar experiences. They're not hard to understand. They're simply inconvenient to certain points of view.
Alan
Posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 20:20:15
In reply to Solutions in search of a problem, posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 20:14:38
I appreciate your efforts to defend your
position. However, as many are probably
tired of hearing about this, let me say
a few parting words on the matter: both
medical authorities as well as the experience
of over a thousand subscribers to benzo.org
overrule your "statistical/scientific" ideas
and your medical status. I have good reason
therefore to go with the former party.Sorry
over and out.
Squiggles
Posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 21:28:23
In reply to Re: Solutions in search of a problem » Alan, posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 20:20:15
> I appreciate your efforts to defend your
> position. However, as many are probably
> tired of hearing about this, let me say
> a few parting words on the matter: both
> medical authorities as well as the experience
> of over a thousand subscribers to benzo.org
> overrule your "statistical/scientific" ideas
> and your medical status. I have good reason
> therefore to go with the former party.
>
> Sorry
>
> over and out.
>
> Squiggles
==============================================And others might observe that no one is denying you the right to do so.
I have no medical status. I have nothing to offer but some hope, evidence in context and perspective (the World Health Organisation comes to mind), and my own personal experience.
I have no reason to feel on the defensive as the question was simply posed as to what I thought of the website known as benzo.org.
I have posted numerous times about the subject and as to why perhaps one thousand participants of any website, or any one particular school of addictionologists, prove anything at all about the general effective cost/benefit ratio of anything let alone psychotropic medication.
1)One can't extrapolate for the general population based on their individual experience.
2)Statistics do not apply to individual cases.
Those are the only two fundamental principles that I try to offer others information on this bboard with some meaningful perspective in mind.
Alan
Posted by Squiggles on December 28, 2002, at 19:29:51
In reply to Re: Solutions in search of a problem, posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 21:28:23
Just want to let you know Alan:
I'll keep an open mind. Things are not
as clear as an unmuddied lake.Squiggles
Posted by worrier on December 28, 2002, at 21:27:37
In reply to Re: Solutions in search of a problem, posted by Alan on December 27, 2002, at 21:28:23
> Amen, Alan. The misuse of statistics is responsible for so much misinformation. I checked out the benzo website....I sensed an agenda, but maybe I'm paranoid. All I know is that I can function when I take xanax and I couldn't before. I feel no compelling need to increase my dose, nor do I feel euphoric or like I am "sleepwalking through life" (to quote the website). I won't tell anyone else what treatment they should opt for. We all need to find what works best for us. Remember...you can't apply statistics to an individual!!!!
Posted by HIBA on December 29, 2002, at 1:00:34
In reply to Re: Solutions in search of a problem » Alan, posted by Squiggles on December 28, 2002, at 19:29:51
Hello Everyone,
Benzo.org is mentioned a good number of times in this forum, and still some stick with the testimonials they find in that WEB. For them statistical evidence can only be acquired through testimonials. But when considering a testimonial, one should be particularly careful to monitor and screen it. Anybody can have a bad reaction with a medication and fabricate a horror story. But when it comes to details, truth is slowly being revealed and we know that horror is not scary at all. Let me reproduce some words from a previous thread from Squiggles. I hope Dr. Bob and Squiggles will permit me for the purpose.
At first Squiggles attributed his/her seizures to klonopin alone.
<<I have been taking Klonopin for about 15 years;
I have had to raise the dose two or three times
at most. My experience with this drug is that
there is no problem at all in staying on it
(i.e. becoming addicted or dependent); however,
in my case at least, trying to get off it
resulted in a stroke or a seizure -- and that
at a small dosage.>>
But see the same person's thread later<<u are very kind to spend so much time on
this; yes, i agree some damage to the CNS
may have happened - it was the hottest summer
on record in Montreal, and who knows maybe
the lithium kicked in or the combination of
heat and withdrawal did that;I notice that i have had some olphactory hallucinations
but i had that before too - maybe a meningitis
problem or something; i really don't know.>>This is a typical example of benzo horror story. First it was klonopin alone and slowly lithium, heat exposure, meningitis.. all come to the picture. And if this gives you any insight, please look unto those benzo horror stories of addiction and withdrawal through the prism of this insight.
HIBA
Posted by viridis on December 29, 2002, at 3:07:31
In reply to Scary Benzo web site- Opinions?, posted by Peter S. on December 27, 2002, at 15:27:51
I've seen that site before, and it reminds me of some of the infomercials you see on late-night TV -- flashy but superficial, with "celebrities" (here, doctors or would-be doctors) promoting things they obviously don't know much about, and a collection of exaggerated and/or suspicious testimonials that are impossible to verify.
I didn't spend a lot of time at the site, but I see that one of their "experts" has a PhD in some unspecified subject (which could be Medieval Poetry, from all I can tell), another has an "honorary" doctorate in alternative medicine, and another deals with prison inmates (probably not a typical patient population). The one apparently credible doctor I noticed implies in at least one of her articles that physiologically- and neurochemically-based hypotheses of mental illness (not just anxiety disorders) are questionable, and seems to be in favor of psychotherapy for mental problems in general.
Many of the scientific papers and media articles that are cited address problems of benzo abuse in heavy users of street drugs -- certainly not the typical benzo-user population. The headlines regarding crackdowns on benzos in Canada don't square with my (limited) understanding of that country's position on benzos, or the information on the Health Canada website. There seems to be considerable emphasis on how to sue doctors for prescribing benzos and get as much money out of them as possible.
I could go on (and I admit that I didn't examine the site in great detail, any more than I would read the National Enquirer cover-to-cover at the supermarket), but my impression was that it's mostly slickly-packaged hype. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I am biased toward proper medical care for those with anxiety disorders.
Posted by Squiggles on December 29, 2002, at 8:00:25
In reply to Re: The Very facts behind Benzo Horror stories!! » Squiggles, posted by HIBA on December 29, 2002, at 1:00:34
Regarding the indeterminate cause of the above,
i think it's right to say, that clear and
proper scientific statistics should be made
on this matter. You must remember that for
a year and a half the withdrawals were themselves
very bad; as i said at one point the skin looked
like rice paper (dehydration?) and the bobbing
of the head and spine was diagnosed by an
emergency doctor as "myoclonic jerks" or "seizures",
with a cautionary admonition to me not to
withdraw on the net.Just throwing in all the cards - not saying i
know exactly the cause.Squiggles
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 29, 2002, at 11:56:34
In reply to Re: Solutions in search of a problem » Alan, posted by Squiggles on December 27, 2002, at 20:20:15
> both
> medical authorities as well as the experience
> of over a thousand subscribers to benzo.org
> overrule your "statistical/scientific" ideasPlease be sensitive to the feelings of others, respect their views even if you think they're wrong, and don't post anything that could lead them to feel put down. This has come up before, so I'm going to block you from posting for another week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 29, 2002, at 11:57:42
In reply to Re: Scary Benzo web site- Opinions?, posted by viridis on December 29, 2002, at 3:07:31
> I've seen that site before, and it reminds me of some of the infomercials you see on late-night TV -- flashy but superficial...
There may be people here who frequent that site or share some of the same views. Please be sensitive to their feelings, respect those views even if you think they're wrong, and don't post anything that could lead them to feel put down. Strong opinions are fine, but need to be civil. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by utopizen on December 29, 2002, at 17:38:02
In reply to Re: The Very facts behind Benzo Horror stories!! » HIBA, posted by Squiggles on December 29, 2002, at 8:00:25
Um,
Squiggles, exactly why did you stop taking your Klonopin, anyway? Did you get magically cured for your anxiety, or did you one day wake up and say, "that drug's name is boring me."
You know, it sounds like you might have had no reason to stop taking Klonopin, so excuse me while I don't cry for you tonight. In fact, I'm not sure what business many people have in going off benzos when they need them for a legitimate purpose and have been able to keep their dose below 10mg.
Posted by chad_3 on December 29, 2002, at 21:14:15
In reply to Re: The Very facts behind Benzo Horror stories!! » Squiggles, posted by utopizen on December 29, 2002, at 17:38:02
Benzodiazpeines (taken without dopamine blockers) are extremely safe, though they may be abused, misused, and ultimately debiliating to cognition and motivation in some.
But there are phsycially very very safe.
See my site at the end for link on
"antipsychotic toxicities"also see "patient rights" - each of these sites is more extensive than they look - but yes pateitns do have rights and unfortunately pschatrists - having all the rules in their favor (total control over what is in records) - and no witness to any session - as well as oftentimes dealing with emotionally burdened or more easily manipulated than average patients - it is no surprise they damage (I would guess 1000's) per year with antipsychotic induced TD without warning and get off scott free.
A large percentage of those taking a/p's will get TD or worse.
Anyhow see my site....
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 2002, at 15:55:16
In reply to Re: The Very facts behind Benzo Horror stories!! » Squiggles, posted by utopizen on December 29, 2002, at 17:38:02
> excuse me while I don't cry for you tonight.
It's up to you for whom you cry, of course, but please remember that (1) the idea here is to be supportive and (2) keeping your reaction to yourself is always an option. Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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