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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 18 to 42 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by Anyuser on August 1, 2002, at 10:06:52
In reply to Re: thanks! (nm) » katekite, posted by Dr. Bob on July 31, 2002, at 18:45:28
Here's a link to a recent Medscape article by the good Dr. Kramer entitled Drug Development: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/439156?mpid=1801.
Here's the concluding paragraph:
"The studies that are done in clinical trials must demonstrate that the drug is safe and effective but nothing more. The idea is to test a potentially commercial product, not to find out scientific truth. Thus, the studies are not designed to gather the most or the best data; they are designed to tell the FDA what they need to know and nothing more. Issues of different pharmaceuticals being more or less effective in different kinds of patients are unable to be determined by the kind of studies that are done for drug trials. While there is much virtue in drug development in that it brings us new pharmaceuticals, it is important to note that these clinical trials are not a substitute for real scientific research done outside of the context of pharmaceutical company drug development. It is only with studies separate and apart from drug development that we will find out information about comparative treatments and the complicated, comorbid, usual patients that are actually seen in practice."
Posted by pharmrep on August 1, 2002, at 11:01:16
In reply to Truth, posted by Anyuser on August 1, 2002, at 10:06:52
I was all over...but have combined all my threads to 1...find me and my last few posts so we can keep going.
Posted by katekite on August 1, 2002, at 20:16:26
In reply to Kate...find me, posted by pharmrep on August 1, 2002, at 11:01:16
Can you post a link to your message? I don't see it. Thanks -- kate
Posted by utopizen on August 1, 2002, at 20:25:30
In reply to Kate...find me, posted by pharmrep on August 1, 2002, at 11:01:16
All I got on my 6 months of Celexa was this:
first few days:
I felt like I was stoned. I sometimes got disinhibition for a few minutes now and then, saying things out of myself without any thought process, while feeling very happy at the same time- same thing I did when I was stoned.few days after going off:
same thingplus:
vivid dreams, very happy vivid dreams,
for first few weeks of taking itgoing off, I paid back I guess, getting
vivid NIGHTMARES!If you guys controlled this whole vivid dream
thing, and isolated the isomer responsible
for making happy vivid dreams and not nightmares,
and made it so I always got them, I'd buy it
and worry about blood clotting later.I like happy dreams, it's why I don't use Klonopin much. When I take lots of Klonopin (repeated dosing during day as prescribed) I get vivid nightmares after coming off it, and that's only after a few days of being on the stuff!
I get vivid nightmares from anything when I go off it, even during my vikodin withdrawls.
Posted by BekkaH on August 2, 2002, at 1:40:26
In reply to Lexapro rep pushes Lexapro, what a shock! » pharmrep, posted by katekite on July 31, 2002, at 9:45:20
Hey Lexapro-pusher:
I get the feeling that you're a salesperson, a con artist and a sleazeball. Other than spin-doctoring Lexapro, which is nothing more than yet another SSDD SSRI (same s**t, different day SSRI), I get the feeling that you don't know what the heck you're talking about.
Have you ever taken Organic Chemistry? What grade did you get in it? At what school was the course offered? What is your background/training? How much is Forest paying you to infiltrate Psychobabble? By the way, I have taken Cipralex, which is exactly the same as Lexapro. Cipralex is the proprietary name for escitalopram in Europe. I think it's even worse than Celexa. The most positive thing I can say about citalopram and escitalopram is that neither of them is as sickening as your dishonest posts.
Posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 2:05:55
In reply to Lexapro-rep. Did you ever take Organic Chem?, posted by BekkaH on August 2, 2002, at 1:40:26
Ouch. Where's the love? 1st of all, I haven't "pushed" Lexapro at all, I have only jumped into topics pertaining to Celexa/Lexapro with what unique information/perspective I have. My input has been purely educational, and I am entitled to my opinion as much as you. And before you continue to rant some more and get a "civil" note from DR. BOB, what exactly have I done to appear dishonest? Nothing. So if you have something constructive to share/say...great. Actually, I'm sorry to hear about your Cipralex experience...how long did you try it? I thought it just came out 3 months ago? PS...have you read any studies on it? (to know how it's different)
Posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 2:09:24
In reply to Re: Kate...find me, posted by katekite on August 1, 2002, at 20:16:26
Not sure how to connect you...I just wrote a post "isomer science is more like it" find me on this thread.
Posted by johnj on August 2, 2002, at 10:28:36
In reply to Re: PBE, not PBC + poll to answer too. , posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 10:13:06
And I read a study done at Nebraska(?) I think that says Lexapro has tested very well. Anyone know about this or can link it? Thanks for joing PB.
johnj
Posted by Anyuser on August 2, 2002, at 10:33:03
In reply to I appreciate your time » pharmrep, posted by johnj on August 2, 2002, at 10:28:36
http://www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/3D2F400704F0675A85256BA7004DA503
Posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 11:24:17
In reply to thanks all...so far good stuff, posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 11:07:16
Hey all...I am still new at this. How can I combine my threads so I can stay here, but let others know that.
I cant find Kate, LLL, Phil and a few others. I want to tell them I'm staying here. Thanks
Posted by mist on August 2, 2002, at 11:34:11
In reply to rookie question, posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 11:24:17
I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly (the "combine threads"?) but if you want to let certain people know you're here then post a new message with their names in the subject line. You could do it on this thread or a new one. That's what I would do, although someone else may have better advice.
> Hey all...I am still new at this. How can I combine my threads so I can stay here, but let others know that.
> I cant find Kate, LLL, Phil and a few others. I want to tell them I'm staying here. Thanks
Posted by katekite on August 2, 2002, at 12:04:16
In reply to thanks all...so far good stuff, posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 11:07:16
Hi,
Thought I posted this question already but seem to have misplaced it...
I know you said Lexapro would be 10-15% less than Celexa. I understand now that its impossible to know the exact cost because its not out yet. However I'm still confused on what 10-15% less means?
Does it mean that:
a. a 20 mg pill of Lexapro would be about 10-15% less than a 20 mg pill of Celexa?
b. a roughly equivalent dose would be 10-15% less, ie a 20 mg pill of Lexapro would be about 10-15% less than a 40 mg pill of Celexa?
c. something else?
Ok, thanks,
Kate
Posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 12:58:42
In reply to cost -- pharmrep, posted by katekite on August 2, 2002, at 12:04:16
Sorry if not clear...it's not carved in stone with a "price-sheet" but this is what I know. Celexa (cx) 20mg is about $60/mo at places like Costco...40mg is about $66/mo. Lexapro (lex) 10mg is supposed to be 10-15% less. So I guess that means 10mg of lex is should be between $55-60/mo. If I can get more specific info, I will post it
Posted by BekkaH on August 2, 2002, at 13:47:23
In reply to Lexapro rep pushes Lexapro, what a shock! » pharmrep, posted by katekite on July 31, 2002, at 9:45:20
As most of you know, the generic name for Lexapro is escitalopram. It hasn't been marketed in the U.S. yet, but it is available in Europe under the brand name Cipralex. I ordered Cipralex from Victoria Pharmacy in Switzerland. Some months ago, Dr. Bob told me it was OK with him for me to post information on Victoria Pharmacy in Zurich, Switzerland. It is one of the only reputable online pharmacies in the world, according to my psychopharmacologist. Victoria Pharmacy's website is www.pharmaworld.com. You MUST have a doctor's prescription to order from them, and they do not ship any illegal drugs, narcotics, etc. If you are truly interested in trying escitalopram, why don't you do your own research (I assume you have access to the Internet, if you are reading here), THINK for yourselves, make up your own minds, discuss your findings with your psychiatrists and, perhaps, order escitalopram from overseas.
Drug responses are highly individual, and I can only speak from my own experience. For me, escitalopram (Cipralex/Lexapro) was worse than citalopram (Celexa); however, I tend to not do well on SSRIs in general. I can't speak for anyone else or predict how anyone else will respond, but I would venture to guess that if you have not done well on Celexa, then Lexapro/Cipralex will probably be worse. For me, escitalopram felt like a more intense, faster-acting version of Celexa, which meant that the negative things about Celexa were greatly magnified. Only you can decide for yourself. I suggest all of you should THINK for YOURSELVES. Do your own research, preferably in OBJECTIVE sources. Then, discuss your findings with INTELLIGENT, medically and scientifically knowledgeable people who are NOT trying to sell you a bill of goods or take advantage of your suffering. By the way, keep in mind, when doing research and reading clinical studies of drug trials, that you should always check to see who sponsored/paid for the research. If a drug trial was sponsored by the pharmaceutical firm that is marketing the drug, you should take the information with a HUGE grain of salt. Also keep in mind that, in the U.S., 51% of doctors who run clinical drug trials receive financial remuneration from the drug companies, so there is a huge CONFLICT of INTEREST problem. I realize this is not pleasant, but it is the truth. LET THE BUYER BEWARE.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 2, 2002, at 13:53:07
In reply to Lexapro-rep. Did you ever take Organic Chem?, posted by BekkaH on August 2, 2002, at 1:40:26
> I get the feeling that you're a salesperson, a con artist and a sleazeball.
Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 23:37:16
In reply to Try Cipralex. Dont' wait for Lexapro, posted by BekkaH on August 2, 2002, at 13:47:23
Nice info Bekka. Sorry it didnt work out for you. You're right, everybody responds differently. I'm curious, I know Lex is supposed to be faster acting, but what specifically are the adverse events for you with Celexa/Lexapro that caused you to discontinue use? You said SSRI's in general dont help you...what does?
And 51% of doctors get paid seems low. Maybe I dont follow you...it seems alright to me that a company can pay for a doctors time and expertise to conduct a trial study. These often take several weeks to several months. They are usually set amounts, but are sometimes unrestricted grants depending on the project. I've seen plenty of studies where the "sponsoring" company is hoping for one outcome, but in fact a not so favorable outcome happens. Since the "freedom of information act of 1998" came in to effect, this has been a tighter ship. Regardless of the outcome of the study...it must be published. For example, the study by Dr. Nick Freemantle I mentioned before. Wyeth paid for it...hoping to see that "dual action" was better...but in fact, the study showed otherwise. I often carry posters/studies around that other companies sponsored...it lends to more non-biased credibility. For physicians to take time away from their own income producing practice and try to run a study instead, I dont see the problem with them getting paid for it. It's not like they will "sway" towards the sponsors just because they got
money from them. No doctor would sacrifice his credibility/career for 1-final paycheck.
Posted by Squiggles on August 5, 2002, at 17:04:36
In reply to Re: Whom do you trust?, posted by katekite on July 31, 2002, at 17:13:11
I'll tell you whom I don't trust, and
i've been in this quagmire for two years now;
i do not trust the absolutist anti-drug sites,
where all antidepressants and all psychiatric
drugs are deemed lethal.I am disturbed at the takeover of newsgroups
lately by this extremist view. The influence
on the net will be great, and the consequences
much worse than the careless prescription of an M.D.Squiggles
Posted by shar on August 6, 2002, at 11:50:10
In reply to Re: cost , posted by pharmrep on August 2, 2002, at 12:58:42
Are those prices in the U.S.? Without insurance? I am floored and amazed, because my monthly Wellbu is over $200 without insurance. My Effexor was nearly that.
I assumed all new meds would be at least that expensive, and have been avoiding trying them.
Have I been wrong about the price info?
Shar
> Sorry if not clear...it's not carved in stone with a "price-sheet" but this is what I know. Celexa (cx) 20mg is about $60/mo at places like Costco...40mg is about $66/mo. Lexapro (lex) 10mg is supposed to be 10-15% less. So I guess that means 10mg of lex is should be between $55-60/mo. If I can get more specific info, I will post it
Posted by cmd on December 8, 2002, at 18:54:10
In reply to Re: Whom do you trust? » katekite, posted by Squiggles on August 5, 2002, at 17:04:36
has anyone tried lexapro coupled with paxil?
i started lexapro 10mg for three weeks then rose to 20mg now for app. three weeks.
original diagnosis was depression. it has helped somewhat, but not as much as paxil helped me. got off paxil b/c weight gain. no apparent weight gain from lexapro but dont feel as good as w/ paxil. paxil also helped w/ anxiety, not so much w/ lexapro.
i,m deliberating with maybe stepping down my lexapro to 10mg with a little paxil. i was taking 30-40mg of paxil/day w/ the weight gain. im thinking maybe the 12.5 mg tabs of paxil with lexapro may be better than 20mg of lex alone w/o the weightgain. i dont know if 12.5 mg of pax will make gain weight like the 30-40mg did.
anyone heard of anyone taking this combo? safely? effectively? thanx!!!!!
Posted by okayokay on June 23, 2003, at 19:51:55
In reply to mirror images: lexapro and focalin and dr.bob, posted by katekite on June 27, 2002, at 17:37:02
I have been on lexapro for about two months. My husband and I are trying to get pregnant. I decided to go off the lexapro before the blessed event. Now I am extremely tired, anxious(no surprise), aggitated, and nauseous. I was wondering if these are withdrawal symptoms. Does anyone know the withdrawal symptoms for lexapro? Please let me know. Thanks
okayokay
Posted by bampf on June 24, 2003, at 17:58:46
In reply to lexapro withdrawal symptoms, posted by okayokay on June 23, 2003, at 19:51:55
sounds like withdrawl. I've had withdrawal symptoms on a couple of different occasions, once when I was coming off Paxil and the other when I was coming of Prozac. I believe most antidepressants in that class (like Lexapro) all have mild to very moderate withdrawl symptoms
There's definitely some other non-prescription things you could take to alleviate symptoms. Would you like a list of some of those things????
Posted by okayokay on June 24, 2003, at 20:12:10
In reply to Re: lexapro withdrawal symptoms, posted by bampf on June 24, 2003, at 17:58:46
> sounds like withdrawl. I've had withdrawal symptoms on a couple of different occasions, once when I was coming off Paxil and the other when I was coming of Prozac. I believe most antidepressants in that class (like Lexapro) all have mild to very moderate withdrawl symptoms
> There's definitely some other non-prescription things you could take to alleviate symptoms. Would you like a list of some of those things????
YES, PLEASE! Thank you.
Posted by bampf on June 25, 2003, at 13:38:32
In reply to Re: lexapro withdrawal symptoms » bampf, posted by okayokay on June 24, 2003, at 20:12:10
Hi there. there are plenty of, I think, great natural supplements you can take to alleviate symptoms. The dose at which you would need to take for each of these for a good effect would of course be specific to you, your body weight, and so on. But, here are a few:
-The herb, Kava, is good for relaxation and reducing muscle tension and anxiety.
-The herb, Valerian Root, is also good for that as well as helping to get to sleep at night.
-Taking Magnesium at night also helps to get to sleep. I take as much as 800mg-1,500mg. at night for sleep and I am 6'4" 250lbs.
-The amino acid supplement, DL-phenylalanine (and L-phenylalanine also), has good anti-depressant effects whereby it helps restore your brain's level of neurotransmitters that are specific to mood and things like that. I take 2,000mg-2,500mg. twice a day.
Hope that helps. I'm sure there are plenty of members on this forum that would have many many more suggestions on supplements and different recomendations as far as dosages go. HANG IN THERE!!!
Posted by Corinne Reece on February 8, 2004, at 19:14:20
In reply to suggestions for okayokay Lex. withdrawal, posted by bampf on June 25, 2003, at 13:38:32
I have been on SSRIs for years and am now off them (as of about 10 days ago). I have been so tired that it is hard to get out of bed. During the day, I am constantly nauseated.... and have pain in my stomach area.
I never knew there would be a withdrawal. I was on Prozac for years and years - and then on Lexapro for about the last 5 mos. I can haredly stand feeling this exhausted.
Is this withdrawl?? I actually went to my primary care and had my bloodwork done. Completely healthy... not anemic, etc.
What can I do to feel better?
Posted by nicola206 on March 20, 2004, at 10:46:22
In reply to Need help with Lexapro/Prozac withdrawal, posted by Corinne Reece on February 8, 2004, at 19:14:20
hi
can any one help me.. i recently stopped taking cipralex 2wks ago,have been on them a few months after swapping from cipramil which i was taking 18months for panic and anxiety.since then iv suffered dizziness, nausea and pains in my low abdomen,shaking,increased panic over nothing and the frequent need to pass stools.
im very tearful alot of the time, are all these symtoms normal? how long will they last? Just need some reassurance theres light at the end of the tunnel, email me at littlemissgiggles106@hotmail.com
thank you
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