![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 222 to 246 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by starlight on July 11, 2003, at 14:22:38
I was recently diagnosed with bipolar about two years ago. well I guess that's not that recent. I don't really see how I have it though. I know that I have bad bouts of depression, but I don't know about the mania part of it. I'm impulsive when it comes to shopping sprees.I know that is a symptom. Icompumpulsively eat when the mood hits me. But I do these things to make myself feel better at the time, of course I don't know that at the time. I am in massive debt and I almost lost my cheking acount forever. Does this sound like bipolar to anyone? What are some of your experiences?
cleo
Posted by pasdenom on July 14, 2003, at 21:37:36
In reply to BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
Cleo,
Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
Posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 22:12:44
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by pasdenom on July 14, 2003, at 21:37:36
> Cleo,
> Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?
Posted by sarita0001 on July 14, 2003, at 22:42:53
In reply to BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
> I was recently diagnosed with bipolar about two years ago. well I guess that's not that recent. I don't really see how I have it though. I know that I have bad bouts of depression, but I don't know about the mania part of it. I'm impulsive when it comes to shopping sprees.I know that is a symptom. Icompumpulsively eat when the mood hits me. But I do these things to make myself feel better at the time, of course I don't know that at the time. I am in massive debt and I almost lost my cheking acount forever. Does this sound like bipolar to anyone? What are some of your experiences?
>
> cleoCleo-
Just a little about my experience...
I was diagnosed 7 years ago after a manic episode($2000 shopping spree, car accident, no sleep for a week, etc). People said I just wasn't myself. Immediately after that I went on lithium and have been on it since then and had no manic episodes, but some depression here and there. I am more of the depressive type. I am still trying to figure out of I have it(by trying to go off lithium completely) and what causes me to feel depressed. It is hard but one of the most important things is to have a psychiatrist you trust.S
Posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 0:04:23
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by sarita0001 on July 14, 2003, at 22:42:53
"no sleep for a week"
For 7 straight days and nights? You'd think the body would just collapse at that point! If I don't sleep for 1 whole night I feel like total CRUD!
Posted by sarita0001 on July 15, 2003, at 9:06:43
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 0:04:23
> "no sleep for a week"
>
> For 7 straight days and nights? You'd think the body would just collapse at that point! If I don't sleep for 1 whole night I feel like total CRUD!Was exagerrating a bit... probably 3-4 hours each night for 7 days. Not to mention I was also smoking pot and drinking.
Posted by joebob on July 15, 2003, at 13:23:08
In reply to Re: New Med Question » Alylene, posted by BarbaraCat on December 5, 2002, at 15:36:45
my doc gave me depakote for 2 weeks prior to starting lexapro next week..........
i am wondering how much dep i might need and will i need to keep taking it after the lex kicks in?
> Why the heck are you on Lexapro? It sounds like you're having classic Bipolar II cycling, an absolute SURE THING eventuality with any antidepressant in the absence of a mood stabilizer. Zyprexa can be of help if it's the right med for you, but it can also affect dopamine which, if it's NOT the right med for you, will plunge you into a very scary place. Weight gain will be the least of your concerns. Hang in there and know that there's something not working with you med combo and royally screwing up your chemistry. Sheesh, if I was on that combo, I know I'd be in the throes of a schizoid mixed state frenzy. Have you read "Why your depression isn't getting better", Dr. M. Bartos yet? Read it. Your symptoms and probable solution are spelled out in black and white. This should be mandatory reading for any pdoc but go figure. - BarbaraCat
>
> > Help...After six great weeks of feeling completely normal, not depressed, and not manic, I have started to spike up toward hypomania...insominia, mind racing and high irritability. Anyway, I went to my psydoc and she put me on Zyprexa (2.5 mg) in addition to my 20 mg of Lexapro. But...she said that weight gain is probable. UGH! If this is true then I'll be back in the depths of depression in no time. Are there any success stories of taking Zyprexa and NOT gaining weight?
>
>
Posted by starlight on July 15, 2003, at 14:39:55
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 14, 2003, at 20:47:05
From what I've read, it appears that mixed is more representative of BPI. I too get some hallucinations - especially auditory. Some visuals as well. The depressions are very difficult for me and actually with the Lamictal, I'm doing much better. I'm thinking of asking for one more bump up just to ensure that I can maintain and avoid another fall.
I have alot of angst - same stuff, feel pain, can easily pick up on other people's pain and will cry with little provocation. My mixed states usually mean that during the down part I'm agitated more yet still function and can actually have alot of energy and still feel like shit. The other thing that's a challenge for me is the need to inflict pain upon myself. I don't cut or anything like that but will want to feel pain.
I've had some truly amazing visions, and feel quite blessed to have experienced them, they have changed my entire perspective on life and how I view it (but you know, the whole spiritual aspect of bipolars, yada, yada, yada). That, to me is the creative artist thing that makes us visionaries so that we can project a different, hopefully better world in our art.
I've never had much of a problem sleeping - though can easily operate on about 5 hours no problem. I have experienced days in my early 20's where I operated for days with almost no sleep. I would drink and party and stay up all night, and go to work and then repeat the whole thing for days on end.
starlight
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:19:36
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by starlight on July 15, 2003, at 14:39:55
Well gee, we sure do sound like we have similar maladies, even to the party hearty in my 20's. I even went to Woodstock so you can extrapolate from there where my head and drug taking was. I've begun to suspect Bipolar I but this affirms it. Don't know what else I can do other than what I am doing with lithium and lamictal.
I've been slowly increasing lamictal while I decrease nortriptyline. I'm noticing a positive change all around. I'm up to 125mg and will probably stay here for a while and then up to 150mg. About the only common experience I don't have is the need to inflict pain on myself. My episodes are usually accompanied by a fibromyalgia flare which provides plenty of pain. Even so, I know there's some great gift in all of this and as damned difficult as it is, from a higher perspective I know it's providing something necessary for my growth.
Yes, I know what you mean about the visions. Amazing, life affirming, transcendant visions. It's when I'm in a really bad state that I forget about them or chalk them up to delusions. I now believe that people with 'different' wiring are more open to the unseen realms, if they have that desire. I'll bet you also saw little elementals and fairies when you were a kid.
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:30:35
In reply to for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » BarbaraCat, posted by joebob on July 15, 2003, at 13:23:08
> my doc gave me depakote for 2 weeks prior to starting lexapro next week..........
> i am wondering how much dep i might need and will i need to keep taking it after the lex kicks in?
>
I don't have experience with either drug, however, if you're bipolar you'll need depakote or some other mood stabiliser, especially if you're taking lex. Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars. If you start feeling like you're cycling wildly and jumping out of your skin, it's time to re-evaluate and/or ask your doctor if they are aware of this problem. Many docs are not. I know that many on this board have posted their experiences with lex and might be able to give more info than I can. Good luck to you. - Barbara
Posted by pasdenom on July 15, 2003, at 18:57:12
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 22:12:44
> > Cleo,
> > Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
>
> I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?Cleo,
the shopping sprees are indicative of hypomania. When you are going on them do you feel giddy, really happy, out of control?
I also am on lamictal which did help curb my hypomania. I was not difficult to diagnose because I have an unbelievable family history of the disorder on my father's side of the family--just about everyone has either bipolarI or II. My 9 year old daughter has it, my 20 year old is cyclothymic and my 16 year old has many prodromal signs, meaning she could develop it later on.Anyway, no matter what you call what you have, if the meds help you lead a more normal life, that's good!
Posted by kaybo on July 15, 2003, at 20:33:12
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » starlight, posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:19:36
Hey there,
Just kind of stumbled onto your thread here. Definitely relating to it all. I am finally starting to stabalize on my meds. Again. Been pretty much a two year on again, off again battle. I'm now on 150mg Lamictal and 900mg of Trileptol. Plus I need to take something to sleep or I'm in a state of aware dreaming all night. I've been taking Seroquel. Then tried Zyprexa and started feeling surreal during the day.
I'm a screenwriter. Another messed up artist I guess. Had many moments of spiritual "awakening" and I feel like part of my extended depressed state stems from feeling that those moments were really induced by the disorder. I was way into searching for enlightenment and now am afraid to tread anywhere near it. My major manic episode was brought on by a combination of heavy antidepressants, stress, a couple weeks of no sleep and a bunch of mushrooms. I thought I had figured it all out. Then I exploded. And crashed extremely hard after being put on high doses of Depakote. Later added Wellbutrin, but never got through the darkness. Started over again about five months ago. The Lamictal seems to be working well to ease the depression, but I'm still not quite fully there yet. Pdoc keeps the Trileptol on board to keep the threat of mania away. I'm not so sure about it. I'm looking so forward to the day when the cloud disappears and I can see clearly.
peace.
Posted by cleo on July 15, 2003, at 23:14:57
In reply to Re: BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by pasdenom on July 15, 2003, at 18:57:12
> > > Cleo,
> > > Yes it does sound like bipolar to me, but not the worst kind. There's Bipolar I, II, cyclothymia, etc. If depression is your worst symptom you probably have bipolar II like I do. By the way, what meds are you on?
> >
> > I've been on every one out there. But I'm on Lamictal at 300mg, serzone400mg, topamax 300mg, paxil 100mg. And these meds have been reduced! He just took me off of wellbutrin and I was taking 800mg of serzone. He's also going to increase my lamictal. He said that I was a difficult patient to diagnose. Do the shopping sprees make me have hypomania?
>
> Cleo,
> the shopping sprees are indicative of hypomania. When you are going on them do you feel giddy, really happy, out of control?
> I also am on lamictal which did help curb my hypomania. I was not difficult to diagnose because I have an unbelievable family history of the disorder on my father's side of the family--just about everyone has either bipolarI or II. My 9 year old daughter has it, my 20 year old is cyclothymic and my 16 year old has many prodromal signs, meaning she could develop it later on.
>
> Anyway, no matter what you call what you have, if the meds help you lead a more normal life, that's good!When I go on shopping sprees and buy food I get really exited and "happy" because the world has so many opportunities for me now. I can get anything I want and when the bill comes, no big deal, who cares about that! I would get on the internet at midnight and shop for clothes and jewelry that I didn't even want. My mother maybe mentioned the other day that she liked gold bracelets, so I'd go and buy one and two and three. I bought two lbs of Fannie May candy on the net and paid $20 next day air mail which cost more than the candy???? I just wasn't thinking right or I didn't care. I ordered take out from expensive restaurants and if they delivered, I was glad to pay the high delivery fee. Who cares?
I ate that about every day till my credit card was reaching its limit, and I couldn't even pay the minimums. I'm 26 and was 6,000 in debt all together. Due to circumstances that were my fault and not, I had to file bankruptcy two years ago.
Posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
In reply to Re: for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » joebob, posted by Barbara Cat on July 15, 2003, at 17:30:35
Barb, is Lexapro any worse than the other ssri's for bipolars, from what you've read/heard (as far as causing problems)?
"Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars."
>>>>>>>Barb, are the ssri's known to be worse than other AD's for causing bipolars' problems? If so, any idea why? Thanks!!!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 0:53:27
In reply to Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
I haven't had experience with Lexapro but I've heard that it causes the same cycling and kindling as other SSRI's. Lexapro is Celexa but with a modified structure. It's still an 'SSRI-type' drug. I'm not aware of any SSRI or other AD's that aren't destabilizing for bipolars. The recommendation for bipolar depression is lamictal rather than SSRI's. It's working well for me.
As far as why, a book called "Why your depression isn't getting better", by Michael Bartos, MD, explains it very well. Very worth reading. I got mine from Amazon. You could also do a web search on bipolar+SSRI and you'll find a wealth of info. Here's a good article on it:
http://mhsource.com/expert/exp1052796c.html
> Barb, is Lexapro any worse than the other ssri's for bipolars, from what you've read/heard (as far as causing problems)?
>
> "Please be aware that any of the SSRI type meds can be BIG trouble for bipolars."
>
> >>>>>>>Barb, are the ssri's known to be worse than other AD's for causing bipolars' problems? If so, any idea why? Thanks!!!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 1:13:56
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara, posted by kaybo on July 15, 2003, at 20:33:12
Dear Kaybo,
I know what you mean about the darkness. Edgar Allen Poe and Vincent Van Gogh had it in spades, even though one would consider them quite creative. At what price? Have you read "Touched by Fire", by Kaye Jamison Redfield? All the luminaries are there, all seemingly bipolar. My worst episodes were triggered by SSRI's. I was taking all different brands for over 10 years because I was supposedly major depressive. No one could figure out why they weren't working until I came to this board and figured it out myself. I've had good results with lithium and lamictal. Haven't had even one of those Grim Reaper depressions since. I've been quite down at times, but not psychotically bereft.So, about your enlightenment quest. My understanding of this state has much to do with quiet and centered being in the face of life's storms. The dazzle I was looking for was just more of ego's tricks. I've stopped searching for enlightenment and am just too happy to have a refreshing meditation these days. Stepping out of my revving mind and noticing what's going on in the here and now is more than enough. I experimented with many mind altering substances and was brought to the doorway. But I had to step through with just me and my screwed up self. And the guidance of Spirit when I allow myself to trust in it. - Barbara
Posted by fluffy on July 16, 2003, at 13:01:01
In reply to Re: Lamictal-Barbara » kaybo, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 1:13:56
Hey Barbara Cat!
I've found the perfect sleep aid!! Just put Gosford Park in the DVD player...one hour later--sound asleep!
I am upping my dose of Lamictal again--I went down due to a sicky feeling when I was on 200mg. So far, so good. My doc seems pretty set on this Lamictal monotherapy thing right now. I've been feeling better so far this week...so I guess the proof is in the pudding.
I do wonder if Lithium would squelch my artwork. I have noticed that I'm more productive and creative on Lamictal, since I'm not a depressed blur anymore. I also feel that my hypomanias are too confusing to lead to artwork or creative thought--just unfinished projects, drinking and smoking too much pot, and running around like a chicken with my head cut off. I'm ready to load the Li ammunition if I start having problems again.
Is anyone on this thread an artist of any type who is on Lithium? I'm curious what your experience is.
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 13:53:35
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity, posted by fluffy on July 16, 2003, at 13:03:03
Gosford Park was truly boring and dumb. Robert Altman's obsessive chitter-chatter movies are annoying at best. I can't believe it got some kind of Oscar. I gave away my copy to the local library so perhaps some other poor soul is getting a good night's sleep.
I'm an artist, not making a living on it but have certain talents that seem to go along with bipolar. I play piano, flute, sing, and teach dance part time. I also dabble with watercolor. In my bipolar career, I've started numerous art projects for which I had talent and passion, but no focus or staying power. My garage looks like an art supply warehouse. No one could possibly carry through with all those creative ideas in two or three lifetimes.
I've found my creative output (not necessarily my creativity, which is part of me) has been enhanced tremendously with lithium and lamictal. I may not get the flashes of sublime inspiration, but at least I can rub two thoughts together and carry through with my projects. I don't think those epiphanies are ever wasted, however. They live in my neural networks and still inspire me. I was much too frazzled before and resorted to wine and opiods to ground me. Fat chance of getting anything meaningful done while snookered. Or paralyzed with bleak despair.
I wonder about the visual arts vs. the more tactile ones. Everything was so much more intense when I was tweaked, colors, shapes. Vincent Van Gogh still painted during the worst of his manias. But I don't think intense vivid angst is the only worthwhile art subject. There is beauty and perfection in the simplicity of a zen watercolor.
Posted by cleo on July 16, 2003, at 15:55:46
In reply to Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote, posted by McPac on July 15, 2003, at 23:30:41
mcpac,
i'm curious to know why you wrote that ssri's can be big trouble for bipolars? All types of bp? I have bipolar and have noticed that lamictal has been the best med for me out of all of the many that i've taken.cleo
Posted by Sabina on July 16, 2003, at 18:19:40
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity » fluffy, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 13:53:35
Posted by McPac on July 16, 2003, at 20:32:28
In reply to Re: Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » McPac, posted by cleo on July 16, 2003, at 15:55:46
"i'm curious to know why you wrote that ssri's can be big trouble for bipolars?"
>>>>>>>>>>Actually, that was Barb's quote......anti-dep's in general, and ssri's for many, can 'destabilize' many bipolars.
Posted by McPac on July 16, 2003, at 20:34:52
In reply to Re: Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » McPac, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 0:53:27
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 17, 2003, at 1:58:12
In reply to Re: Barb, for barbaracat.......lexapro and depakote » McPac, posted by cleo on July 16, 2003, at 15:55:46
Lamictal isn't an SSRI, it's an anti-convulsant mood stabilizer and very good for bp's, especially for bipolar depression. It's been good for me as well. There's a ton of info on this board and out on the web about how SSRI's can destabilize and cause hypomania. Here's a good website:
http://www.psycheducation.org/bipolar/controversy.htm
A good book is "Why your depression isn't getting better", Robert Bartos.
> i'm curious to know why you wrote that ssri's can be big trouble for bipolars? All types of bp? I have bipolar and have noticed that lamictal has been the best med for me out of all of the many that i've taken.
>
> cleo
Posted by fluffy on July 17, 2003, at 12:00:57
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity » fluffy, posted by Barbara Cat on July 16, 2003, at 13:53:35
Hey Barbara Cat--
It's cool to hear what you do creatively. I passionately wanted to be a dancer, but opted to be a visual artist due to extremely short limbs and a bubbly butt.
My work is dependent on a kind of choreography, though. I work more like an architect or a scientist than a mad, paint splattering expressionist type. I plan, concentrate and contemplate quitely rather than produce in a mad and tearful rage. Personally, the meds seem to have helped me complete my work (as with you). I really, really hate that image of visual artists...one that Kay Jamison catagorizes as the artist's temperment. (The Rothko, Pollock, Van Gogh types) I wonder if they would have opted to stay on meds rather than having a bad temper and losing friends. I kind of hated that book "Touched with Fire". Not all bipolar artists rely on their hypomanias to produce worthwhile work. She qualifies her generalizations a lot, but I couldn't help but feel that her points were exaggerated and romantic.
I was curious about Lithium specifically because of its reputation for putting the fire out so to speak. Kay Jamison seems to dwell on it quite a bit. Her book actually makes me feel a little frightened about TAKING Lithium! Something I'm sure she didn't intend to purport.
Rock on with your creative endeavors!
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 17, 2003, at 13:26:15
In reply to Re: Gosford Park, Li and creativity, posted by fluffy on July 17, 2003, at 12:00:57
Hi Fluffy,
Does your name have to do with your bubbly butt? (That might sound really weird to someone just getting into this thread!) Glad you can approach your art so centeredly. Do you make your living doing this? If so, good for you!I felt similarly to K.R. Jamison's description of the 'tortured artist'. I think she was in a full throttle manic swing when she wrote it, or had leaning towards OCD. All those charts and graphs! plus she was in clinical practice full time. It is interesting how so many passionate artist-types are categorized as bipolar. Maybe it had something to do with too much lead in the cookware and pipes back then. Beethoven's hair was analyzed not too long ago and it showed sky high lead levels. He was majorly depressed but obviously had moments of grandeur. But who wouldn't be depressed back then with the cold, heat, grime, rotten teeth and no baths! Yecch.
Lithium doesn't damp out the fire at all for me. I've heard that it can do that, i.e., Jamison was taking alot of lithium and said that she eventually compromised with less lithium, less stability, but more creativity. I'm only taking 600mg/day which is below the therapeutic window so maybe more would affect me more adversely.
Without it I get frizzled and disordered so whatever it does, it does me good. I considered that I had ADD but stimulants made me feel even more fried.Lithium supposedly makes new neurons and is protective - brain healthy. That may be so, however, it's made my hypothyroid condition worse and I pee alot more. I have to exercise alot just to stay plump. Hopefully jettisoning the nortriptyline will help in that regard. - Barbara
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.