![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 266 to 290 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 23, 2003, at 16:33:32
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi Dali. Welcome. All of us Bipolars struggle with balancing the bliss of hypomanic creativity against the frazzled disorganization, not the mention the paralysis of depression. If you haven't read the beginning of this thread then take a look at it. It's mainly been about this whole subject (see the 'Gosford Park' series). Most of us who have been there agree that taking the right meds haven't hurt our creativity at all. We have focus and energy to finish our projects and don't get lost in the distractions. The trick is to ride the edge a little, that is, don't overmedicate or you will feel numb.
I've had a very wild ride with my mixed states bipolar condition and was on SSRI's for years thinking it was major depression that wasn't resolving. Only since I've been on lithium and lamictal have I had any relief. I'm finally putting some creative dreams into reality instead of starting off like a rocket and then fizzling. I feel hope instead of despair for the future, even if we are governed by idiots. I still have wonderfully rapturous cosmic visions and insights. They may not be quite as psychedelic as they used to be but I least now I can remember them. I don't do nearly as many foolish and dangerous things but can pick my deliriums more wisely. Lithium has been a lifesaver for me, even though I'm well below the therapeutic window. Lamictal is the PERFECT partner for lithium and they seem to increase each other's effect. I personally could not do lamictal alone and need lithium for the calm center it provides.
Yes, forgetting stuff and feeling like you're in a ping-pong machine is faily common. It's not all the time so I don't think it's ADD but it sure can look like it. I get real frustrated with myself when I'm in the grip of it. Everything distracts me and I feel like a complete airhead which I'm not. I could be on my way to the bathroom to stock the t.p. and get sidetracked a dozen times, eventually remembering where I was headed but now the toilet paper has disappeared. I usually find it under the sink or in the freezer or, or... I also get kinda spastic, dropping things, setting things on top of stuff so that everything falls and makes more of a mess. I can't remember what others have told me like dates, facts, important info although I recall having a lively discussion at the time. I have to remember to BREATHE slowly during these times cause I'm usually holding my breath and that makes for more anxiety. So, welcome to the club and be thankful that God gave us DRUGS. - Barbara
Posted by McPac on July 23, 2003, at 23:29:46
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal » Dali, posted by Barbara Cat on July 23, 2003, at 16:33:32
It would seem that the mood stabilizers would be the main type of med to combat dysphoria, correct?
If so, that might explain why I've been having the terrible pissed-off temperment that I've been having for awhile now...I've only been taking 300/mg of lithium a day for quite some time now...might have to bump that up and see if that feeling diminishes. Thanks for any responses!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 1:32:38
In reply to What's the best type of drug for dysphoria?, posted by McPac on July 23, 2003, at 23:29:46
Yeah, try it, doubt if you're getting much of anything on 300mg. Going from 300 to 600mg worked for me. I could probably go even higher than 600 but I'm trying to skirt around the rim of hypomania so I don't get blah. You might try some righteous blow-off-steam exercise too. No amount of meds are going to move stuck energy.
> It would seem that the mood stabilizers would be the main type of med to combat dysphoria, correct?
> If so, that might explain why I've been having the terrible pissed-off temperment that I've been having for awhile now...I've only been taking 300/mg of lithium a day for quite some time now...might have to bump that up and see if that feeling diminishes. Thanks for any responses!
Posted by Jennifer N. on July 24, 2003, at 11:01:59
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Dali,
I was also recently put on Lamictal. I've been on it for about 5 weeks, and I have seen a great improvement in my depression. My mania has been worse, but that will happen until you can get to the right level. How much are you on right now? My doc said that this can happen when you're on 50-100mg/day. To curb this and to help with my sleeping, she has put me on 50mg/day of Seroquel. This has definately helped with my mania. I just increased my dosage today from 100mg/day to 150mg/day. I've heard a lot of people have had success from taking Lamictal and Lithium at the same time. I can't take Lithium for health reasons. This might be something to ask you're doc.
As for you're drinking, drugs, etc, this is definately something that you don't want to be doing while you're on these meds. It can cause side effects, meds not to work, and most inportantly, damage your kidneys, liver, etc. Maybe a rehab might be something that you could benefit from, and the support that you could receive there would probably help you a lot. Of course, those of us who visit this web-site could also help, but sometimes we just need to able to call someone, or simply go out for coffee.
Find things that inspire you. Find a hobbie or activity that might help you channel some of the energy from your mania into something positive, productive and good for you. Exercise is always a great thing for mania, and just plain feeling good.
If you have anymore questions, or just want to talk, feel free to post another message. I hope that I've helped!
-Jennifer
> i just started taking lamictal today
> i've suffered from bipolar (also ADD) since i can remember (i'm 21) i would ask for anybody else with info. on bipolar and lamictal for advice.-- i've taken everything except for lithium. eg. depakote, topamax, paxil, wellbutrin, neurontin etc etc) i really struggle with taking my meds and feeling like they hinder my creativity/ intellect/ spirit everything- there is also an issue with the ADD i have to take the stimulants to be productive (focalin right now) so i take them in conjunction ]- i've been through three colleges in 3 years and one looney bin-- used every illicit drug [coke, weed, malli, various recreational Rx's (xanax, vaium, codiene) and alcohol has been a constant friend] my moods are uncontrollable-- hour to hour/ day to day/ week to week-- i'm now starting to get scared about my life and its lack of direction... so i'm starting to take getting my life in order a bit more seriously (like i've never said that before)--- i'm a bit manic right now-- i've forgotten the point of my "psycho-babble"-- guess i'm just asking for support from somebody telling me how much better a controlled (read medicated) life is.... telling me that you're still smarter than all your friends and just as creative... with a life that is not collapsing around you, to boot.
> also when hypomanic do you do stuff you don't remember, (such as ordering concert tickets, and forgetting that you did until they show up in the mail 4 days before the concert, you ordered the ticks a month and a half ago,) i do this a lot. my pdoc says this isn't a frequent report... ??
> OH! almost forgot-- i totally relate to the pms coment of lady above-- i was so glad to read that.... i go completely nuts every month around my period--- whether that means becoming totally depressed and not leaving my couch or going out on the town all night/week long
>
> thanx for reading and responding
> loves
Posted by mbluett on July 24, 2003, at 11:36:50
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi there,
I just wanted to give you some positive thoughts on your situation. I am a 28 year old male with BP II. I have also used and abused just about every substance on this planet. I have finally settled with Lamictal as my No.1 pharm. I also take Lexapro for the depression. I used to use Effexor, but the benefits outweighed the side effects. Lamictal keeps me stable and has a very positive effect on me cognitively. I can now focus on tasks and my memory has improved. I have also had a very unsettled life until 2 years ago when I found the right medical help and medication. I fully understand your concern about the 'self' part that you mention (creativity/intellect/spirituality). It seems a contradiction in terms of personal evolution that we should need medication to progress or to live a 'normal' life. I have discontinued and restarted medications many times because of this internal turmoil. I have finally come to realise that life changing decisions and personal progress are best made from a stable mind. If medication provides that stability, so be it! I would encourage you continue with the Lamictal. It is a very good mood stabiliser and anti-depressant. I believe that once it starts working for you, you will be able to drop the Focalin. Once last thing. Stability came as a shock to me, as if I still craved the highs of mania! I hope this helps.
Love and peace.
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 11:52:14
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by mbluett on July 24, 2003, at 11:36:50
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 24, 2003, at 12:20:37
In reply to Re: Barbara Cat, I need your opinion, posted by fluffy on July 23, 2003, at 12:48:26
>> Sounds like you've had a difficult run lately.
If only it were just 'lately' but alas, that's been Life for this kid from the get-go. Weird karma. When I think of my genetic and personal history, you could say I come by my mood disorder honestly. I've come to look at it like this: perhaps it's a good thing to have the hard part in the beginning, like going for a hike or bike ride where the trip is mainly uphill. Then you've got the downhill part to look forward to when you're really ready for it. At least I'm working on making this philosophy a fact. I guess it's more like peaks and valleys the whole way but hopefully we get stronger and more familiar with the terrain.
Maybe lots of other folks don't have difficult lives, but they just didn't take the same trail I did. Besides, I can't think of 1 person I know who isn't at least a little screwed up.
Posted by katia on July 24, 2003, at 15:10:58
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
> i just started taking lamictal today
> i've suffered from bipolar (also ADD) since i can remember (i'm 21) i would ask for anybody else with info. on bipolar and lamictal for advice.-- i've taken everything except for lithium. eg. depakote, topamax, paxil, wellbutrin, neurontin etc etc) i really struggle with taking my meds and feeling like they hinder my creativity/ intellect/ spirit everything- there is also an issue with the ADD i have to take the stimulants to be productive (focalin right now) so i take them in conjunction ]- i've been through three colleges in 3 years and one looney bin-- used every illicit drug [coke, weed, malli, various recreational Rx's (xanax, vaium, codiene) and alcohol has been a constant friend] my moods are uncontrollable-- hour to hour/ day to day/ week to week-- i'm now starting to get scared about my life and its lack of direction... so i'm starting to take getting my life in order a bit more seriously (like i've never said that before)--- i'm a bit manic right now-- i've forgotten the point of my "psycho-babble"-- guess i'm just asking for support from somebody telling me how much better a controlled (read medicated) life is.... telling me that you're still smarter than all your friends and just as creative... with a life that is not collapsing around you, to boot.
> also when hypomanic do you do stuff you don't remember, (such as ordering concert tickets, and forgetting that you did until they show up in the mail 4 days before the concert, you ordered the ticks a month and a half ago,) i do this a lot. my pdoc says this isn't a frequent report... ??
> OH! almost forgot-- i totally relate to the pms coment of lady above-- i was so glad to read that.... i go completely nuts every month around my period--- whether that means becoming totally depressed and not leaving my couch or going out on the town all night/week long
>
> thanx for reading and responding
> lovesHi,
What was your experience on the Depakote? I"m so worried that I'll become more depressed on it. As I'm normally in either a mixed state or a depressed state. I'm worried that Depakote will take away only the mania and make me worse depressed wise. I am seeing a well known and respected pdoc, so I'm just trusting his judgment and I am going to begin the med today. Does EVERYONE who takes it gain weight and lose their hair? I'm hoping not!
Any comments from anyone would be great.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
In reply to Re: Mild Bipolar - moodstabl-- lamictal, posted by Dali on July 23, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi Dali--
You are asking the big questions. I think all of us had them when first being diagnosed bipolar. It's a really life altering thing. Suddenly you're being told that you are not "normal". I wondered what "normal" could be. And I wondered if I would even want that. Could I be normal and still be me? Would being stable swipe my creativity? At times, I still wonder these things. But I've been feeling normal lately, and I can honestly say it's so much better than feeling panic stricken, fearful, suicidal, and unfocused. Looking back, I can see how my disorder caused so many problems for me. I drank too much, engaged in stupid sexual encounters, had trouble completing tasks, said really dumb and overly assertive things to people who had a huge impact on my career as an artist, etc., etc...
I won't sugar coat this for you. You are in the most difficult stage of this junk. Working to find stability and the right meds, wrestling with yourself and self-worth, and wondering-- "just who the hell am I anyway?" It was the most taxing and frustrating thing I've ever had to do. And normal folks aren't really good at understanding this philosophical struggle. I found a lot of support on this board, and I still do. The most important thing that someone instilled in me was that it gets better. And with a lot of hope, some disappointments, some relapses, unsuccessful drug trials, and most importantly patience, it HAS GOTTEN BETTER! (I'm currently feeling loads better on 200mg Lamictal) It's so hard to hang on during this time.
You should read all you can on bipolar disorder...discount the super negative accounts, they'll get you nowhere. A book that helped me a lot was "An Unquiet Mind" by Kay Jamison and "The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide" (I think that's what it was called). It may feel silly to do this, but maybe find a support group in your area if there is one.
Remember--it gets better. You won't lose the good parts of you. Hang in!
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 12:12:51
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
Dali:
Here's a link I found to be really helpful:
http://www.psycheducation.com/
Look under the "HOPE" section. And the treatment section...Hell, just read the whole damned thing if you need to!
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 26, 2003, at 13:36:57
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 11:39:27
Dali, Fluffy is right on in her words of wisdom. As one who was finally treated correctly for BP just 1.5 years ago (actually I insisted due to what I learned on this board that I was bipolar rather than recurrent severe depression. My pdoc agreed to try bp meds instead of SSRIs, which are baaaaad for BPs), I've begun to relax and trust that I'm not going to fall off into the abyss again. No matter what scintillating insights and madcap highs I had, nothing, absolutely nothing, was worth the horrible depressions, the promises made and not kept, the embarassment of appearing like a floozy.
For example, I'd go to office Christmas parties and the like, drink copious amounts of margaritas, wine, whatever, with a Vicodin chaser. This gave my already stratospheric mood rocket fuel energy. I'd then proceed to get up onto the dance floor and do a very sensual belly dance by myself in the middle of 300 or so people. I'd insistently pull the CEO onto the floor to dance with me. We'd then break into a conga dance around the room, me gleefully laughing and spinning ecstatically in the center - at least this is what I remember. Very audacious and at times very magical and fun. Problem was, I got a certain free-spirit rep that I couldn't live up to in normal or down times where I'd sit bawling in my cubicle cause I couln't put two thoughts together. Besides I was mortified at my behavior which would become rather predatory as the night wore on. And me, at 50 years old, married, with a very responsible project managment position!
That fun driven energy would eventually disintegrate into burnt out disorginization and sloppiness. We won't even mention the DUI, the prescription forgery arrest, the lost friendships, the loss of self esteem, the house in shambles, abandoned projects all over the place, for the life of me I couldn't put stuff back that I'd taken out, the thousands of dollars spent on stuff cluttering up the garage and closets, neglecting boring stuff like bills and taxes. Then the inevitable depression where all that wild energy now fueled nightmarish anguish and agitated depressions. I couldn't eat a sandwich without seeing the animals led to slaughter or hearing the screams of the vegetables being pulled up. No way to live and nothing I could do about it. Lithium/lamictal have changed all that and the good news is that I've gone back to playing piano again, I've started studying dance again, riding my bike very enjoyably. I've had to get practical and realize I'm probably not going to win the Nobel prize at the same time as doing everything from quilting to sky-diving to glass blowing to... I'm sure you understand.
The good news is that now that my life has reached equilibrium my rep is slowly changing from wild and unreliable to accountable and calm, but still unique and talented. The best news is that I still have periods of mystical transport, still hear heavenly choirs, still have very real inspirations, although, as I said, now I can remember and use them instead of them being pretty mind candy that exhausted me. Dali, at least give meds a try and keep trying until they click. You can always go back to the mayhem. - Barbara
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 14:09:32
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by Barbara Cat on July 26, 2003, at 13:36:57
Barbara, Fluffy, and Katy,
Have anyone of you had any experiences with Depakote only for BP Mixed/NOS/II (my dx falling somewhere around here)? My depressions are bad and I am currently off everything and am on the mild low side. I'm waiting for prescription to come in the mail from Canada. My pdoc wants to only start me on this for the time being. Does anyone know if this is enough for the depressed side - which seems to be much more prevelant for me. I'm definitely at the running out of hope - what am I doing taking these meds that aren't working - phase.
Barb - I've read a lot of your posts and your history sounds a lot like mine except I'm 33 and don't have a successful career (none at all infact) am single. But I've been the one on the dance floor pulling the CEO out with me too. I cringed when I read that b/c it's rings too true for me. I know that feeling (especially when you don't know what's going on with you, i.e. bipolar) about the confusion of going from the life of the party to the recluse, who can't handle much social interaction at all. Except my swings seem to happen within days of each other and the cycle goes. exhausting to try and maintain a rep, when it's not you and it's a small part about you at this moment!I, too, more or less dxed myself after reading posts on this board. After a year of tormenting trials on ADs that didn't work, I'm a bit disheartened whether anything will work.
Any input would be appreciated re: depakote solely for BP NOS and any experiences on it?
thanks everyone.
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 14:09:32
Dear Katia,
I have no experience with Depakote. It's never been a med that my doc wanted to try on me. I think it's because it is helpful with mania, but not depression (that I know of). I don't get full blown mania, just major depression and hypomania. It has a reputation for causing weight gain. However, as far as I know, it helps relieve mixed states and rapid cycling. Sounds like you've got some of that going on.
But if you ask me, Lamictal would be the drug of choice. It's not a miracle drug--it may not work on everyone. But for me it's been a life saver. Have you tried any other mood stabilizers? Lamictal is also reputed to quell mixed states and rapid cycling. On top of that, it has an antidepressant effect. Other people prefer Tegretol, Depakote of Lithium alone or with the addition of an antidepressant. But given your record with them, I wouldn't reach for antidepressants until you give a mood stabilizer a good run.
Have you had a good, long talk about this with a psychiatrist that you trust? I'm certainly not a professional, but I can tell you my experience and share from the research I've read.
AD's put me in a terrible mixed state and made me feel worse. I also didn't know what the hell was wrong until it became full blown. I searched and searched, and figured it out. (i'm bipolar II or cyclothymic w/ major depression).
Tell me what meds you've tried before. Any lithium in there? Any other anti-epilepsy stuff?
Take lots of care,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 15:06:27
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Hi Barbara Cat--
I can so relate to the dancing thing--dancing on the floor (of course in a really sexy way) with no-one else. I can't count how many times I did that in my most manic state. I'm talking Christina Agulera booty and hip thrusting action, with a throng of hooting men egging me on. (usually this was after about 5-6 coctails)
The last time I was manic, I built a stair-case for my loft, refinished and chromed a table, weather stripped my doors, and sewed new curtains all in one day.
I'm sure lots of folks on this thread can relate.
Barbara Cat--your stories are always interesting.
Katy
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:39:24
In reply to Re: Dancing Queen, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 15:06:27
> Hi Barbara Cat--
>
> I can so relate to the dancing thing--dancing on the floor (of course in a really sexy way) with no-one else. I can't count how many times I did that in my most manic state. I'm talking Christina Agulera booty and hip thrusting action, with a throng of hooting men egging me on. (usually this was after about 5-6 coctails)
>
> The last time I was manic, I built a stair-case for my loft, refinished and chromed a table, weather stripped my doors, and sewed new curtains all in one day.
>
> I'm sure lots of folks on this thread can relate.
>
> Barbara Cat--your stories are always interesting.
>
> Katy
Barb Cat and Katy,
Yes, it's soooo good to be able to laugh at it and to know I'm not the only dancing queen too, when I've been cringing at memories too embarrassing to talk about.. that wasn't really me?!
Posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:52:26
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Dear Katy,
> Dear Katia,
>
> I have no experience with Depakote. It's never been a med that my doc wanted to try on me. I think it's because it is helpful with mania, but not depression (that I know of). I don't get full blown mania, just major depression and hypomania. It has a reputation for causing weight gain. However, as far as I know, it helps relieve mixed states and rapid cycling. Sounds like you've got some of that going on.
>
> But if you ask me, Lamictal would be the drug of choice. It's not a miracle drug--it may not work on everyone. But for me it's been a life saver. Have you tried any other mood stabilizers?No, this will be the first (Depakote).
>Lamictal is also reputed to quell mixed states and rapid cycling. On top of that, it has an antidepressant effect. Other people prefer Tegretol, Depakote of Lithium alone or with the addition of an antidepressant. But given your record with them, I wouldn't reach for antidepressants until you give a mood stabilizer a good run.
I think that's my pdoc reasoning too. He also did not want to start me on Lamictal due to the small possibility of the fatal rash. I had actually suggested Lamictal due to the good response I've heard from on this board.
>
> Have you had a good, long talk about this with a psychiatrist that you trust? I'm certainly not a professional, but I can tell you my experience and share from the research I've read.
>
> AD's put me in a terrible mixed state and made me feel worse. I also didn't know what the hell was wrong until it became full blown. I searched and searched, and figured it out. (i'm bipolar II or cyclothymic w/ major depression).Yep, I know all about those confused mixed states.
> Tell me what meds you've tried before. Any lithium in there? Any other anti-epilepsy stuff?
> > KatyThe ADs I've tried are Celexa and Zoloft (did nada for me) and Effexor and Serzone, both put me in a hypomanic mixed state and not much more. I was on Neurontin for a brief few weeks taken occassionaly for sleep. that was mixed with the Celexa. No lithium. In fact, nothing but what I've described above.
We'll just see. i'll give it a go with the Depakote. I'm going to buy a scale b/c I'm not gaining weight (it's a bit different for women, esp. when you've already got a body image problem) when there is so much more out there. I'm already at my fat limit due to the Zoloft.
warmly,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 16:33:15
In reply to Depakote » fluffy, posted by katia on July 26, 2003, at 15:52:26
Katia--
Your medication history is almost exactly the same as mine. Add some Paxil and Trazodone, then subtract the Serzone. In fact, you are fairly medication naive compared to some people I've read about. It's still frustrating though!!--esp. if you are depressed. I felt the same way.
The first mood stabilizer i was put on was Tegretol. It wouldn't lift the low grade depression that was lingering. I switched to a new doctor who specializes in mood disorders. Sometimes older and more conservative psychiatrists opt for the "gold standards" (lithium, depakote or tegretol) before anything else.
Now as for the reputed rash. Your doc is being rather skiddish if you ask me. In fact, Depakote can also cause this rash. (same probability) If you are having body image problems, and you gain weight or get depressed again, then Depakote may not be the best bet.
Keep a mood chart if you aren't already. It's kind of a drag, but it illustrated for me if a drug was working or not. When my chart went to a straight line (for a number of normal days instead of jagged ups and downs, I knew the drug was working).
Let us know your progress. Lots of luck!
Katy
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 0:04:29
In reply to Re: Attn: Dali, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 14:47:34
Lithium and Lamictal work well for me. The only other mood stabilizer is neurontin which doesn't seem to do much. I've been intrigued by Depakote because of it's rep as being very calming and mellow and good for anxious states. But the weight thing has kept me away. I've been on every one of the SSRI and SNRI's. They'd work for awhile but then the godawful mixed states black depressions would always break through. So up we'd go with the dosage with no relief. I was also getting twitchy, like little discharges were firing, like those jerks before you fall asleep. If you suspect yourself bipolar, be very cautious with ADs and do not take them alone.
About the dancing queen, wasn't it fun, though? I mean, what chutzpah, what audacity, what energy! Who'd get the stodgy CEO up and dancing otherwise? When it's really on, it's contageous inspired magic. It could be wonderfully sexy. No doubt there were many sitting there wishing they had the moxie. If I could only channel it and say Hah! Thatsa me and too bad if you don't like it! But noooo, I ruin it all by getting all ashamed and whimpery. I'm really working on looking at it like 'Wow, girl, you can be one hot mama!', rather than 'Eyeeeu, you pathetic slutty hag!' Do you ever wonder if Christine Aguillar, Madonna, etc. are permanently manic? Is that how they do it? And have you seen Beyonce recently on the steps of New York city hall? Shaking her booty wearing a teensy little skirt with just a little thong thingie underneath advertising her goods. Of course, they don't have to face the old salt mine employees either but I can't imagine them losing sleep over being an out of control slut.
I'm not saying I admire crude behavior, but a bumper sticker gave me hope: 'No fascinating woman ever got that way by being a good girl'. And by the way, I no longer have a profession. Fibromyalgia put an end to burning myself out doing a job that 'just wasn't me' - whoever that is.
Barbara
Posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 0:40:56
In reply to Dancing queen and proud of it!, posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 0:04:29
> Lithium and Lamictal work well for me. The only other mood stabilizer is neurontin which doesn't seem to do much. I've been intrigued by Depakote because of it's rep as being very calming and mellow and good for anxious states. But the weight thing has kept me away. I've been on every one of the SSRI and SNRI's. They'd work for awhile but then the godawful mixed states black depressions would always break through. So up we'd go with the dosage with no relief. I was also getting twitchy, like little discharges were firing, like those jerks before you fall asleep. If you suspect yourself bipolar, be very cautious with ADs and do not take them alone.
And by the way, I no longer have a profession. Fibromyalgia put an end to burning myself out doing a job that 'just wasn't me' - whoever that is.
> BarbaraDo you think that the fibromyalgia is connected to or as a result of your BP state (mainly the depressed side) and/or the medications?
as far as depakote, I do need some calming agent, but not so much that I get into a lethargic inertia low grade depression. I'm worried about that aspect. Like I don't want just the "manic" side taken away. But I need the depression addressed too. Hopefully depakote will do this.??? I"m just at my end and exhausted and can't go through another year of trying different meds to no avail.....I need to get it right soon. No more steam left....
katia
Posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 11:29:46
In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » Barbara Cat, posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 0:40:56
Hi Katia,
If you haven't tried lamictal, give it a whirl. Even if you try something else, such as Depakote, I can't say enough for lam's energizing, calming antidepressant quality. It took me about a year to work up to 200mg, which seems the magic number for antidepressant action. I coasted along at 75mg thinking it was enough, but 200mg, even though jittery at first, has made a huge difference. I was literally dying before hitting upon lamictal/lithium combo. I like lithium, but Depakote is the undisputed second. NOW HEAR THIS. I just heard that Depakote has been released in a new extended version that doesn't cause the weight gain. Tell your doc this since it's very new news.Now, is fibro connected to bipolar - good question. It sure can cause mental unhingeing, whatever your predisposition is. No one knows what causes fibro since it's a group of symptoms rather than a single pathology, a system breakdown caused by physical, emotional or environmental stress, but no one knows for sure. The symptoms are the same but the underlying trigger is different from person to person.
My personal belief, at least for me, is it's a disregulation of the HPA-axis caused by years of intense stress. There also may be a genetic component to it. My father seemed to have symptoms of fibro, widespread pain and fatigue. He was most likely bipolar as well (as was 1/2 his large family), alternating between severe depressions and violent rages. I had an extremely difficult childhood, very abusive (thankfully no overt sexual). Many object to the theory of it being stress induced, saying it's physical with the emotional coming later, but there's too much evidence that most fibro sufferers have had severe stressors in childhood. The stress hormones damage parts of the brain that regulate sleep, fear, thyroid, sex hormones - the gamut. Lack of deep stage IV sleep seems to be the main culprit. Having a bipolar condition doesn't help since it's so draining and stressful in it's own right, and who sleeps well during mania? But I don't know what causes what. It's interrelated, they exacerbate each other.
I do know that at times of extreme stress in the past I thought 'No one can live through this and not be damaged. Something has to give.' In my case, it eventually did, and it's fibro. But, you know, it's been a blessing. It's forced me to remove myself from soul-sucking conditions and situations. It's a great stress barometer. At the cost of my life, I cannot give in to that habitual fearful despair. My life's quest now is not fame, fortune and excitement, but just living a simple harmonious existence. But jeeze, my bod can sure put me through alot of grief. The latest is intense itching all over, inside and out. I feel like I have fleas (I don't). - Barbara
> Do you think that the fibromyalgia is connected to or as a result of your BP state (mainly the depressed side) and/or the medications?
> as far as depakote, I do need some calming agent, but not so much that I get into a lethargic inertia low grade depression. I'm worried about that aspect. Like I don't want just the "manic" side taken away. But I need the depression addressed too. Hopefully depakote will do this.??? I"m just at my end and exhausted and can't go through another year of trying different meds to no avail.....I need to get it right soon. No more steam left....
> katia
>
Posted by fluffy on July 27, 2003, at 11:31:06
In reply to Re: Depakote, posted by fluffy on July 26, 2003, at 16:33:15
To Katia--I totally understand the end of your rope feeling. The good news is: If the antidepressants didn't work on you, then chances are that the mood stabilizers WILL WORK. Unfortunately, psychiatry is still a crude science, involving lots of trial and error. You may hit the nail on the head with Depakote. It may work really well for you. Everyone is different. The other good news is: if Depakote does not work alone, you will probably know within at least a month. With SSRI's you'd have to wait a full 6-8 weeks. You may have to try another drug, and the process can be very daunting. But just know that there is a drug or combo of drugs that WILL WORK! It may take more time, and there may be disappointments.
I didn't believe that anything would work for me. I felt my brain was permanently flawed, and that I couldn't ever be "fixed". I'd been on Lexapro for 6 weeks--went manic, then zoloft+neurontin for another 6 weeks--felt spacey and mixed, then Tegretol--2 more months of low grade depression. And this was after 3 previous months of mixed states and major depression. You can be very sure that I felt that NOTHING would work. After finding a doctor that listened to me and was very informed about bipolar disorder, I found the right drug.
Be very pro-active with your doctor and trust yourself and how you are feeling. I wanted to feel better so badly (when I was in EXACTLY the same boat as you) that I often convinced myself that I was feeling better, and under-reported that I was still depressed. So I suffered through 2-3 months more of low grade depression. If you don't feel it's working, then TELL YOUR DOCTOR!! Be very assertive with him/her. Only you know how you are feeling.
And lastly--take time to care for yourself. Chances are you've been beating yourself up for awhile now. TAKE LOTS AND LOTS OF CARE!
Katy
Posted by fluffy on July 27, 2003, at 12:08:05
In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 11:29:46
The latest is intense itching all over, inside and out. I feel like I have fleas (I don't). - Barbara
You know Barbara--I had that very same weird thing happen to me in college. I tried to explain it to someone, and they said "maybe you have scabies". But i didn't. It went away in a day or so. Is that what fybromalgia is?
Katy
Posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 16:05:21
In reply to Re: Dancing queen and proud of it! » katia, posted by Barbara Cat on July 27, 2003, at 11:29:46
Hi Barbara,
Were you on Lithium only for awhile (and it needed an augment?) and then added the Lamictal? When you say that you thought you were Ok at 75mgs what made you realize you could be better?The fibro sounds painful. I too have felt at times of extreme despair and agnony there is no way my body is getting out of this unaffected. I"m just waiting for the bomb to drop for me. My body defin. has its aches and pains for no reason and normally correlated with stress levels; sometimes it really feels like I"m dying b/c my body hurts so badly. I've thought about fibro before as the reason. Who knows!? It could easily be just an over stressed body due to high strung emotions reacting in a "normal" way. What have your symptoms been?
I have asked my pdoc about the extended release version of Dep. as I've heard about that too. I'm waiting to hear back from him.
warmly,
Katia
> Hi Katia,
> If you haven't tried lamictal, give it a whirl. Even if you try something else, such as Depakote, I can't say enough for lam's energizing, calming antidepressant quality. It took me about a year to work up to 200mg, which seems the magic number for antidepressant action. I coasted along at 75mg thinking it was enough, but 200mg, even though jittery at first, has made a huge difference. I was literally dying before hitting upon lamictal/lithium combo. I like lithium, but Depakote is the undisputed second. NOW HEAR THIS. I just heard that Depakote has been released in a new extended version that doesn't cause the weight gain. Tell your doc this since it's very new news.
>
> Now, is fibro connected to bipolar - good question. It sure can cause mental unhingeing, whatever your predisposition is. No one knows what causes fibro since it's a group of symptoms rather than a single pathology, a system breakdown caused by physical, emotional or environmental stress, but no one knows for sure. The symptoms are the same but the underlying trigger is different from person to person.
>
> My personal belief, at least for me, is it's a disregulation of the HPA-axis caused by years of intense stress. There also may be a genetic component to it. My father seemed to have symptoms of fibro, widespread pain and fatigue. He was most likely bipolar as well (as was 1/2 his large family), alternating between severe depressions and violent rages. I had an extremely difficult childhood, very abusive (thankfully no overt sexual). Many object to the theory of it being stress induced, saying it's physical with the emotional coming later, but there's too much evidence that most fibro sufferers have had severe stressors in childhood. The stress hormones damage parts of the brain that regulate sleep, fear, thyroid, sex hormones - the gamut. Lack of deep stage IV sleep seems to be the main culprit. Having a bipolar condition doesn't help since it's so draining and stressful in it's own right, and who sleeps well during mania? But I don't know what causes what. It's interrelated, they exacerbate each other.
>
> I do know that at times of extreme stress in the past I thought 'No one can live through this and not be damaged. Something has to give.' In my case, it eventually did, and it's fibro. But, you know, it's been a blessing. It's forced me to remove myself from soul-sucking conditions and situations. It's a great stress barometer. At the cost of my life, I cannot give in to that habitual fearful despair. My life's quest now is not fame, fortune and excitement, but just living a simple harmonious existence. But jeeze, my bod can sure put me through alot of grief. The latest is intense itching all over, inside and out. I feel like I have fleas (I don't). - Barbara
Posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 16:15:54
In reply to Re: Depakote, posted by fluffy on July 27, 2003, at 11:31:06
Hi Katy,
Thanks for your words of encourgement!
Yes, we do have a similar med history. So it took awhile for you to figure out you're bipolar too? The ssri's just flatten me out and deaden me, the SNRIs like Effexor and SErzone made me mixed and moody. high and low together and then high and low and the cycle continued! My moods felt even far more volatile than when on nothing, except when I'm in a major depression (which normally has mixed undertones).
I've been on nothing for about two weeks now and I've lost that slightly manic feeling (from Serzone) and now I'm feeling just mildly to mod low, some irritation. So I'm hoping that the mood stab. do the trick for me. I've got so much potential! I'm sick of wasting it and not being able to channel it!
Was Tegretol the first mood stab. (besides the neurontin) that you were on specifically for your BP? It sounds like it took away the up side and left you mildly low. That's what I'm afraid of. But what did it for you after that then? What are you on now? and is it working? Sorry if you've already described this in an earlier thread, it's just so hard to follow them all.
thanks!
Katia
Posted by fluffy on July 27, 2003, at 17:05:59
In reply to Re: Depakote » fluffy, posted by katia on July 27, 2003, at 16:15:54
Was Tegretol the first mood stab. (besides the neurontin) that you were on specifically for your BP? It sounds like it took away the up side and left you mildly low. That's what I'm afraid of. But what did it for you after that then? What are you on now? and is it working? Sorry if you've already described this in an earlier thread, it's just so hard to follow them all.
> thanks!That's ok Katia--this thread has turned into about 5 at once. Yes--Tegretol was the first mood stabilizer I was put on (after a *tiny* dose of Neurontin (100mg). I never got to a high enough dose of Tegretol to see if it would help my depression. I didn't trust my current psychiatrist who kept insisting that I was having major depression (DUHHH!) and kept loading me full of SSRI's. Even though I became fully manic/mixed, he insisted I was just depressed. I started to suspect that I might be bipolar. I had to beg and plead for a mood stabilizer trial. He started me off on Tegretol, but wouldn't believe me when I told him I was feeling depressed still. Needless to say, he was arrogant and very difficult to work with.
When I went to my new doc and told him I was on Tegretol, and I was still depressed, he promptly gave me two drugs to choose from: Lamictal or Lithium.
I think he did this for two reasons.
One--I was depressed, and the other mood stabilizers don't have a good antidepressant profile. Many people report a "flat" feeling. I'm not sure if I was still depressed or if the Tegretol was the culprit.
Two--I am currently going to a mood disorder clinic, and they sometimes hire their patients to be guinea pigs for science, testing new and old drugs and supplements. At the time, they were enrolling people with BPII, currently depressed to ramdomly try Lithium or Lamictal to determine which drug worked best. I fit that profile to a tee. I got the Lamictal. Free appointments, free Lamictal. It has worked really well for me so far. If I have breakthrough stuff, I'll probably try augmenting with Li. But for the time being, I've found what I feel is going to be the main work horse of my coctail.
Have you tried doing a search on this site about Depakote and its efficacy on depression?
best,
Katy
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.