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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 2 of 2. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 31, 2003, at 20:30:25
I was reading through the DXM FAQ on Erowid, and came across the following:
"Dextrorphan is a metabolite of DXM (i.e., the body converts DXM to dextrorphan). The conversion from DXM to DXO occurs via removal of the methyl group at position 6, a process called "O-demethylation". DXO is very similar chemically to DXM, and reacts with the same receptors in the body, but with a very different spectrum. Whereas DXM is strongest at the PCP2 and sigma receptors, DXO primarily targets the NMDA receptor (see Section 10)."
I've been supplementing myself with 30mg of Delsym twice daily for a few days now with a definite, yet subtle, increase of the potency of my tramadol in particular -- not at all surprising considering its use by opioid addicts to potentiate their drugs. But I think switching to DXO sounds more reasonable. I'm sure I could get it through a research chemical supplier that I occasionally use to order legal psychedelic phenethylamines and tryptamines... what do you think of this? Thanks!
Posted by btnd on September 1, 2003, at 18:27:04
In reply to btnd: DXO for NMDA antagonism?, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 31, 2003, at 20:30:25
> I was reading through the DXM FAQ on Erowid, and came across the following:
>
> "Dextrorphan is a metabolite of DXM (i.e., the body converts DXM to dextrorphan). The conversion from DXM to DXO occurs via removal of the methyl group at position 6, a process called "O-demethylation". DXO is very similar chemically to DXM, and reacts with the same receptors in the body, but with a very different spectrum. Whereas DXM is strongest at the PCP2 and sigma receptors, DXO primarily targets the NMDA receptor (see Section 10)."
>
> I've been supplementing myself with 30mg of Delsym twice daily for a few days now with a definite, yet subtle, increase of the potency of my tramadol in particular -- not at all surprising considering its use by opioid addicts to potentiate their drugs. But I think switching to DXO sounds more reasonable. I'm sure I could get it through a research chemical supplier that I occasionally use to order legal psychedelic phenethylamines and tryptamines... what do you think of this? Thanks!
Hmm I think DXM/DXO is a controversial substance - it is a NDMA antagonist, but carries potential for Onley's lesions (brain "holes", impaired memory, neurotoxicity)
Same thing with Ketamine.
PCP is way too damaging, I wouldn't touch it even if it was readily available and very cheap).Here are some quotes:
(erowid)
"However, several things have happened recently which have led me to conclude that Olney's lesions apply to humans at recreational doses. First, I've received reports from many hundreds of users of DXM, some of whom have used it heavily and been clearly harmed. Second, more recent studies have shown that damage occurs to lab animals' brains even at lower doses (including ordinary anaesthetic doses of ketamine and dizocilpine!). Third, reports of ketamine-related brain damage have started to show up. Finally, the type of impairment people are reporting coincides exactly with the areas of the brain damaged in lab animals."
"If you do decide to take an extended dose, it's probably a good idea to wait a long time before dosing again.With DXM, for maximum safety I recommend one week per plateau between uses (and at least a month if not two between the extremely-dangerous "plateau sigma" trips).
With ketamine, two weeks between uses would be the approximate equivalent.
I'm not going to speculate on PCP because of its additional toxicity to other areas of the brain."
The problem is, what dosage of DXM(DXO) could block NDMA, but not have any side effects. From the studies which I have sitting on my hdd, it is hard to tell. DXM(DXO) is considered high-affinity NMDA blocker ("full antagonism", just like with dizocilpine). Also, there are few studies which show protection of dopamine cells (antiparkinsonian effect) and anti-dyskinetic activity of full NDMA antagonists.
IMO it is actually hard to tell the benefits/toxicity ratio of such compounds as DXM(DXO), ketamine, PCP, dizocilpine.
I'd rather try partial NDMA antagonist especially amantadine or acamprosate.http://www.biopsychiatry.com/amantadine.htm
Acamprosate:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11111840&dopt=Abstract
This is the end of the thread.
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