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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 499 to 523 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:36:22
In reply to Lithium Survey again, posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 14:05:46
Hi Barbara,
In the range of MS, my pdoc wanted to start me on Depakote first. I wanted Lamictal b/c of the AD qualities. He was wary b/c of the rash and wanted to at least try one of the "tried and true" other MSs first, knowing, as I, that it's probably going to be a long process of trial and error.
He never really mentioned Lithium except to say that that is normally for the classic BPI. But the more and more my lenses come off my blinding vision over the years, the more I am SO waking up to the fact that I'm BP. And I'm wondering if not BPI, due to my "mixed" states and due to a very odd but wonderful time I had for a brief period when I was 17/18. I always just regarded that time as a time when I was just with it and up and tuned in to the beauty and thrill of life. I never slept; and could never understand why people slept so much. I was always raring to go. It felt like I was constantly on some euphoric drug making me inhale deeply life's richness and beauty and feel giddy and exhilarated just to be alive. I was wild to say the least - wild. My senior suplerative was "the wildest student". I was so confident, NOTHING or NO ONE could have told me differently. Just now, in the past few months, looking back, I think I was manic. Because soon after in the autumn after a wonderful summer meeting first boyfriend and living at a beach, changing job per week and house per week, I started college. And somewhere I began crashing hard. terribly hard. I lost tons of weight and only ate rice and a glass of milk. Woke up at 6 every morning staring off outside, afraid, nervous, wondering what went wrong in my mind. I had it all together; life was good - great! I wanted that back. What do I do wrong? etc...Since that time, I've experienced more the tired but wired, irritability - more dysphoric/mixed with underlying chronic depression throughout. I got a few moments of wonderful goodness though!
So that's why I'm thinking that I may even be BPI. who knows! who really cares???? just give me something that works!I had another TERRIBLE TERRIBLE night last night - no alcohol involved. A cloud was following me all day and I kept trying to avoid it with yoga and then a movie, but by 9:30 it caught up to me and I tumbled. I was sobbing and in agony. you know the agony and sobbing that you feel you're almost regurgitating from the center of your soul? And every movement is painful? I felt soo alone and felt NO ONE loved me and that if my family weren't alive, I'd kill myself. The tornado came and the tornado left again. I went to bed and slept for 11 hours. (BTW, this is the first night I've taken all of my depakote 500mg at night). I couldn't wake up 'til past noon. It's ridiculous.
So we'll see how the Depakote works. If we abandon it, I'm insisting on Lamictal to start and then adding Li. if needed.
So there you go! BTW, give me an example of a classic BarbCat mixed state.
Katia
Posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:37:48
In reply to family denial » fluffy, posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:14:48
BTW Katy,
It's great about your mood!!!!!
What kind of artwork do you do?
Katia
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 16:41:38
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 15:45:35
Boy am I glad people are more togeather today than I am. I just reposted you because I forgot to include your name in my last response. Thanks for catching it
> From what you describe, it sounds like BPII (my formal diagnosis). And it also sounds like you have the agitated depressions---if severe, called mixed states (esp. if there is suicidal ideation). But "normal" depressions can be marked with irritability as well.I dont really have suicidal ideas much any more. Some of that might be from a desire to prevent my kids from going through anything like the trauma I went through. Love does sometimes find a way. And I love those sweeties a bunch. So much that even if it comes up on the radar (which as I said very rare for me now days) it gets shot right down. My heart goes out to people who feel more alone in their struggle. I feel the lonliness at times, long stretches of it, but I homechool and I dont get as much time to dwell on it. Something very immediate about kids.
Now my poor hubby, that relationship provokes my destructive thinking sometimes. I truly know we are from different planets. He has been in enough denal about my illness for both of us. When Im drowning in the void, and really taking it out on him, the more I try to communicate it to him, the more screwed up it gets and I feel really tempted to go over the edge and not come back.My mom is probably classically depressed,(Ive never known her to be manic except maybe when she married my father) and I learned from her the tedency I have to just keep going.
My dad left when I was 3 and he might be BP. He was the radical, the black sheep.
>
> I'm quite certain that my dad is also BP. He exhibits a terrible temper--snapping at people for nothing, is physically abusive, camps out in his room for days at a time sleeping, and at other times is jolly.Forgive me if I sound insensitive but I hope im not as bad as your Dad. I know there are times my kids feel Im off my rocker about little things. Wanting to make even those times abate is a motivating force for me to get help. And of course it is not so easy for moms to lock themselves in their room. I cant even go to the bathroom with out interruption!
> And you are absolutely correct in getting another psychiatrist.
Do you mean am I set on this? Yeah, i feel like even without the oversights the last one just wanted to give me the newest med comimng down the pipe.
Psychiatrists can be arrogant, stupid, insensitive and misinformed just like other people.No, I think their worse;) (except for you dr. bob:)The next will have to have at least a better sense of humor. To pdocs have a sense of humor?
I sincerely hope that the new pdoc works out, and works WITH you until you feel you've gotten closer to answers regarding your current situation.
Lots of hugs and thank you, thank you
If you feel like reading my full story (meds, some personal history, but MAINLY my really insensitive psychiatrist!!) here is the url from earlier in the thread:
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030828/msgs/255630.html
>
>
I will check it out.
Thanx Katy
peace
Ima
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 16:50:33
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey » Ima, posted by Ponder on August 31, 2003, at 14:08:56
Thanks for patiently answering me.
Have you been diognosed bipolar?
Good luck
peace
Ima
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 16:59:01
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey » Ima, posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 14:53:27
My BS meter is super sensitive these days and my temper sometimes gets the better of me, but after cowering and doubting my feelings for so long, I'm rather happy with this turn of events. Too much crap in this world. Too much rolling over and putting up with it. FOOEY ON THAT! But even with all my meditating and yoga and such, I can be a RAVING BITCH and need to channel it some way.
>
> I'm also seriously pursuing a health regimen with my naturopath and think it's very important to my overall health and sanity to cover all basis - body, mind, spirit. Good luck. - BarbaraCat
Thanks Barbcat,I think Im still in the cowering stage and hopfully heading for the FOOHEY ON THAT stage.
The worst of it is I seem slide back and forth from one to the other.I love craft hour!
and the way you write!
peace
ima
Posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 17:46:53
In reply to family denial » fluffy, posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:14:48
How has your family coped with you "coming out of the closet" so to speak?
> KatiaWell, they haven't been completely in denial--but they never ask how I'm feeling (mentally). My mom is super pragmatic about it--she just thinks--hey--just take a pill, and it will go away (which is somewhat true, albeit much more complicated). She does not dare to address the family tree thing b/c of my dad. He's been terribly abusive to her, too. When I asked my dad about our family tree in despiration (and fear) and told him what was going on with me and my new BP diagnosis--he just started sobbing and crying. He said he feels the same way as me most of the time. I do feel for him. But for jesus sake!! He beat on my brother and I (and yelled horrible things at us) throughout my whole childhood--even into college! He would NEVER NEVER see a psychiatrist! He's probably frozen in fear due to his mom being committed (and never cured of her illness). In that sense, I can't blame him for being scared out of his wits.
Ima--if you're reading this--I hope you didn't infer that I was comparing you to my dad--I was comparing MYSELF to my dad. If I had kids, I'm seriously afraid of how I might have treated them--I have a horrible, agitated temper. I've ALWAYS been afraid of having kids b/c I've thought I might be abusive. It sounds as though you keep yourself pretty composed, even though you are hurting inside. It's really difficult to do.
Anyway--again I've become long winded. I can't help it. This is such a good group!! You guys are my support group!!!
Thank you so much everyone!!
Katy
Posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 18:16:07
In reply to Re: family denial » katia, posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:37:48
> BTW Katy,
> It's great about your mood!!!!!
> What kind of artwork do you do?
> KatiaHey Katia--
I wish I could just post a link...
But I make sculpture with cloth and lumber. It is large scale and kind of dramatic. I make forms (like cushions) with different cloths--usually nylon. They get stuffed with sand, polyester, or sawdust. There are lumber pieces that provide "support" for the softer forms...the soft forms coddle the heavy lumber pieces. (does any of this make sense??)AAARGGHH! Dr. Bob's gonna re-direct me! I just know it.
But I think that craft hour provides mood stability just like daily exercise!hugs,
Katy
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 20:33:04
In reply to Re: family denial, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 17:46:53
> How has your family coped with you "coming out of the closet" so to speak?
> > Katia
>
> Well, they haven't been completely in denial--but they never ask how I'm feeling (mentally). My mom is super pragmatic about it--she just thinks--hey--just take a pill, and it will go away (which is somewhat true, albeit much more complicated). She does not dare to address the family tree thing b/c of my dad. He's been terribly abusive to her, too. When I asked my dad about our family tree in despiration (and fear) and told him what was going on with me and my new BP diagnosis--he just started sobbing and crying. He said he feels the same way as me most of the time. I do feel for him. But for jesus sake!! He beat on my brother and I (and yelled horrible things at us) throughout my whole childhood--even into college! He would NEVER NEVER see a psychiatrist! He's probably frozen in fear due to his mom being committed (and never cured of her illness). In that sense, I can't blame him for being scared out of his wits.
>
> Ima--if you're reading this--I hope you didn't infer that I was comparing you to my dad--I was comparing MYSELF to my dad. If I had kids, I'm seriously afraid of how I might have treated them--I have a horrible, agitated temper. I've ALWAYS been afraid of having kids b/c I've thought I might be abusive. It sounds as though you keep yourself pretty composed, even though you are hurting inside. It's really difficult to do.
>
> Anyway--again I've become long winded. I can't help it. This is such a good group!! You guys are my support group!!!
>
> Thank you so much everyone!!
> Katy
How old are you Katy (if you dont mind my asking)
I was 31 When I had my first so I had some of my stuff sorted out.
I was married three yrs. bfore my first preg. Thank God she didnt come then. We had a lot of junk to sort and not kill each other over. Things were better by the time I finally got preg.It hasnt always been rosie. Im a firm believer in the value of an apology. Something I never got from my parents, ever.
Yelling, I cant help sometimes,
but saying I was wrong I can.
I think they understand.
Its not a cake walk,
but I think they feel loved.
THAT's THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!!!
Dont give up the idea
because you may not be a perfect parent.
There arent any.Thanks for sharing. Its hard to be transparent about painful family stuff.
peace
ImaPS..Craft hour definately rules !.. Winston Churchill took up watercolor and layed three hundred bricks a day to keep the "black dog" at bay. (he also drank three bottles of liquor a day, but hey? ;)
Posted by SUMMER2002 on August 31, 2003, at 20:34:13
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey » fluffy, posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 16:41:38
Ima
How do you do it with kids and homeschool? I agree they keep me so busy that I don't have time to think about it but on bad days like today I don't want to do anything, plan anything or be Mom. Of course I do - at least the basics - make dinner, read a book, play scrabble. But every chance I get I go out driving and smoking. I know both are bad - What I really want to do is go find a hole and climb into it when these down moods hit. I'm only on lamictal - I wonder if adding wellbutrin would help. I mentioned it to my pdoc because of the smoking but he said he didn't want to mess with my meds since the lamictal appeared to be working.
Oh well
Tomorrow is another day.
Patricia
Posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 21:23:30
In reply to Re: family denial, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 17:46:53
Hey Ya'll!
This thread has been going on a long time, do you realize that? We've all become so close, we know how inexplicable it is what we have to our 'normal' relations, but we know each other very well, we understand each other. We have buddies here that hold us through the hellish times and say "Yes! I know what you're going through! You're not alone!".There's a mystery and a special magic in what we have. You know what I mean. We're blessed, but we don't know how to use or creatively channel our energy and power. Don't forget that magic, and try to find evidence of it everywhere, no matter how raw and turbulent it's untutored form is.
We're blessed and we'll find the way if we continue to just ASK! We'll find the outlet for our gifts if we refuse to give into FEAR. What's there instead of FEAR? You know deep inside. The goal of meds is to help us calm down enough to find what that answer is. We live in strange times and everyone is feeling it, not just US.
What we bipolars, as raw pilgrims on this journey have, is acute sensitivity and razor's edge instincts. This ain't a bad thing at all. It WILL get better and it WILL make more sense. It really is all coming together for me, just recently, and it's pretty amazing, this wild journey I'm on.
But you have to go through your own journey in your own way. Nothing I say will sink in now, but it might arise when needed. Anyhow, I hope it will. I thank the Great Mystery for Lithium, at least for me. I keep thinking that Spirit made and put Lithium in my path and I said 'Gee, thanks, I'll try f**cking anything!'. Now I can get on with Life and it's My Time, My Life and if it's taken 52 years to get here, then so be it. I look good, I'm feeling better with each day, and shoot, it's only gonna get better.
Just think of someone who never experienced the Full Monty of Life! The anguish, the bite of pain, the poignant ecstasy of hope. Would you want to hang out with such a pallid personality? Not me! I'll take my anguish any day because I know that there's a higher order looking out for me. You too!
So give thanks for your extremes of experiencing Life. When you're older, you'll be grateful it wasn't a zombie life. You felt deeply! You're Red and not Grey in your 'take' on life. Right??!!! Remember, 'No Fascinating Women in History was ever a Good Girl!' (Bumper Sticker that changed my life!) This applies to guys as well, by the way.
We're friends, dammit, and I am so grateful you're all are in my life. I can express ME in all my honesty without someone going "Whooo, someone get our the white coats. She's WEIRD!" Sorry, but there are no orderlies with white coats in Our Cyber-World! Love to all and thanks, Barbara
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 22:07:58
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey, posted by SUMMER2002 on August 31, 2003, at 20:34:13
> Ima
>
> How do you do it with kids and homeschool? I agree they keep me so busy that I don't have time to think about it but on bad days like today I don't want to do anything, plan anything or be Mom. Of course I do - at least the basics - make dinner, read a book, play scrabble. But every chance I get I go out driving and smoking. I know both are bad - What I really want to do is go find a hole and climb into it when these down moods hit. I'm only on lamictal - I wonder if adding wellbutrin would help. I mentioned it to my pdoc because of the smoking but he said he didn't want to mess with my meds since the lamictal appeared to be working.
>
> Oh well
>
> Tomorrow is another day.
>
> Patricia
Hey Patricia you sound like a great mom.
I mean it. All you can do is all you can do. Some days I cant plan any hting either. But It doesnt mean I dont love them. As often as you do the right thing for them they must know you really love them. If they believe you love them, and, it will cover a multitude of sins.My Mom never did cr*p with us. I love her and Im over it, but I felt like we were an after thought. Messy critters in her other wise clean world.
She gave what she got, which was less than that. Her mom made her get a job at 10 yrs. to pay her own way.In my moms high school yr. book, her goals were, convertable, secretary job and nice clothes. I read that entry at least a dozen times, and I felt it was true. We werent one of her goals.
I, being the tenacious brat I was set out to be the opposite of my mother. It was in my nature.Im more like my rebel father she reminded me on many occasions, who left us when I was 3.
I once heard you have two chances to have a happy childhood, yours and your kids. I think its true.
Part of the homeschool philosophy weve ascribed to (and there are many) is to raise them to be self learners.(this was no doubt self defense on my part)
There have been days when Ive said, Mom needs to have some time, and I close my bedroom door. They know if they really need me ( the house is on fire or someone is bleeding) they can disturb me. They do live up to our expectations. They do the work they need to do for the day.
I read, pray, call a friend, what ever it takes get my head togeather, and like you, I have simple priorities, dinner. Some days laundry.When Im okay, like you, I play scrabble.
Friends with children have been a great help. Tues. we went to the park togeather. Kids play, Moms comiserate. I couldnt have survived the early years with out female support.
They are 12 and 14 now. They direct their own days and touch base with me for guidance when needed.
It is actually harder for me now they are more independant.Bps really benifit from regular sleep and routine. I got more of that when they were little and looked more to me to provide structure.
With mid life and menapause setting in Im unmoored more than Ive been in a long time.
But I think it is mid life that finally breaks through our ability to disasociate and gives us a chance to deepen the healing we've put on the back burner while raising our kids.
My poor hubby, one menapausal woman and two pre menstral teens and just him :) It will be an interesting new time for us all!
Im definately worse now. I feel a certain grace attended my determination to give my children, more than I was given.
There notheing wrong with getting away to smoke a cig. You still love them. you just have to survive, in order to keep loving them.Obviously the lamictal by itself is not working.
If your Bp you probably need something else. There are lots of people on this site more knowledgebale about meds than myslef. But I love to talk about my family. Any more specific encouragemanet I can give in that dept, Id be glad to give.
Dont worry about the smoking. Just your sanity okay. Tell him you want to do more with meds or find a better doc.
Im just starting to feel like its my turn. By Gods grace Ive been able to hang on this long. But each persons path is unique. Dont beat yourself up by comparisons, okay. We're all in it togeather! Go girl!
peace
Ima
Posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 22:13:01
In reply to Friends, finally friends that understand!, posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 21:23:30
Posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 2:36:34
In reply to craft hour rules!!, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 18:16:07
You know we could exchange email addresses....
it may take away from this group thing, but then we could say what we like?
again, if we do get redirected and the email exchange is out, just follow the link it's quite easy.
katia
Posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 3:29:33
In reply to Friends, finally friends that understand!, posted by BarbaraCat on August 31, 2003, at 21:23:30
Hi Barb,
I just sent you a long thread and somehow it was deleted and somehow it's made me go into some psychotic state. I'm so sad that I lost that email/thread. I'll write more later when I'm saner. just wanted tosay thatI apprecaited
your posting.
katia
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 1, 2003, at 3:39:00
In reply to craft hour rules!!, posted by fluffy on August 31, 2003, at 18:16:07
> AAARGGHH! Dr. Bob's gonna re-direct me! I just know it.
Sorry, but I would in fact like to redirect follow-ups regarding this to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030829/msgs/256055.html
Bob
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 13:45:17
In reply to Lithium Survey » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on August 31, 2003, at 16:36:22
Well, Friends,
I was having such a great time yesterday evening, felt wonderful, calm, hopeful. Was cleaning house and singing and dancing to CDs while I was working. High on Life, yesseree. Thought 'Even cleaning groaty caked on dishes is fun when you're feeling good'. Decided to write to you all and say 'Hey, I feel good! It's working!'. So what did dumb me do? Decided to 'celebrate' with a leetle glass of wine left over from a dinner party the night before, of which I had none, needing to focus. You guessed it, one glass led to another. I was having so much damn fun that I broke open another bottle. I vaguely remember halfway removing the cork and then yanking it out with my teeth. Have vague memories of the night (oh, yeah, I also smoked a smidge of pot - at least that's what I remember), but the worst was when my husband came home. I don't remember what the problem was. I can always dredge one up pertaining to something he did/didn't do. But really, it has everything to do with how he triggers painful stuff from my past in me. This one thing in particular really did piss me off, however, but not to the extent of my reaction.So, I blasted into him. Mean and unreasonable, the Harpy had a field day. He mentioned how I only get this way when I drink. I said, or rather slurred, "F**ck you and the white horse you rode in on" (I actually did say that, yee gods). We made up and slept but this morning I woke feeling just awful, horrible. Hung over wasn't the worst of it. Depressed, ashamed, toxic, tired, fretful, anxious. It's a gorgeous day outside and I have the blinds drawn hoping I can take enough various meds to put me too sleep (not permanently, don't you worry about that). I have a hard time relaxing into sleep in this state because I get jolted out of it by a feeling of shame or guilt that I should be up and about doing things, like tax stuff, that I really need to do, not sleeping off a drunk. I know better! I'm embarassed to face my husband and will have to endure my chagrin and the chill in the air between us for the next week.
Hopefully I've learned my lesson. Especially coming from such a happy, centered and optimistic place right before. The difference was amazing - Dr. Jekyll, Mrs. Hyde - and I'm grateful that the lesson was so obvious. I won't go to AA since I just don't relate to the philosphy. It's not like I do this frequently, only after I've been 'good' and think I can handle it. Most of the times I can, but there are the times when I can't stop and I have holes in my memory. I guess that's a sign of an 'alcohol problem'. But my guess is that any alcohol is a problem, at least for me. Even one glass of wine tips the scales for me and makes me depressed and thick. Even tho' it tasts so damned good, it's so elegant in those sparkly crystal glasses, and it can make me feel immediately festive and exhilliarated - or at least pick me up when I feel like shit. It may have something to do with the concentrated sugars as much as the intoxicating substances. I'm going to check out Rational Recovery. If anyone has any experience with that, please let me know.
So friends, I know a few of you mentioned you had a couple drinks a night or two before you went into a tail spin. Coincidence? I think not! Bartenders don't ask 'So, dearie, what's your poison?' for nothin' - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 14:01:37
In reply to Re: Lamictal Survey » SUMMER2002, posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 22:07:58
Someone here asked for my story since we're sharing them. I'll get back to you on that one. It's too much for my fried brain at the moment. Right now I'm nursing an 'overindulgence' from last night and feel like warmed over dog turd. I wrote about it in Alcohol Sucks, cause it does.
I'd rather be out in the beautiful sunny day, but really, I'd rather it was a rainy foggy crappy day instead. So I'll amuse myself thinking about my life history while trying to snatch some zzzzz's, try to condense it because it's very convoluted, but I'll just give the salient points, like the time my father ran after me with a hatchet, and another when my brother broke a lamp over his head to stop him from kicking and choking me. A little teaser eh?, like a movie trailer. Maybe I'll work up a good cry in the process of recalling, and I can use one about now instead of feeling like a dumb lush when I KNOW what drinking does to me. Oh well, live and learn (I hope). - BCat
Posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 15:52:42
In reply to Alcohol Sucks!, posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 13:45:17
Oh Barbara, we really are on the same same page darling.
I made a "pact" with my therapist to only have two drinks at a time. It's been working. I worked last night and had two drinks after work with the rest of the crowd. Love that merlot....
I came home like a good girl after two and found your lovely email about "friends finally...." and wrote you back this lonnnnggg post. I even said something about how I saw a bumper sticker on a car the other day and thought instantly of you. It said something like "good girls don't make history" or something. And I found the coincidence extremely funny that you should write about that sticker..etc...
I went on about transpersonal stuff etc.
and then bleep. it was gone just as I was sending it.
That did it. I went over the edge. I couldn't even cry. I could just moan and squirm in an agitated agony and tear at my skin with my fingernails and rip my hair out. Depakote hair loss? just kidding.
It went on for about an hour, I felt as tho' I wanted to drive a stake in between my legs and rip out all this agitation.
I proceeded to write my pdoc a four page letter and then CALLED him. and left some crazy message about how I was sending him a letter and I need to know if he authentically wants to be treating me. god knows what I said and how my voice sounded. I'M SOOOOOOO EMBARRASSED!!!!!!!!
I finally called a friend who came over and I drank two beers with him and smoked four cigs and "chatted" (dr. jekel mr. hyde) about how I thought I was similar to Seabiscuit. I keep thinking I'm a big horse not realizing that I'm really a small one and can't do so much in this life as I think I can.When he left I almost went to the post box and sent the letter along with a handful of my hair to my pdoc to get my point across. (what that point is now I have no idea). I just woke up cringing and pulling the covers over my face when I remembered that the psycho in me was let loose, not just in the confines of private home, but to public eye - namely my doctor. I'M SO EMBARRASSED!!! I still haven't read the letter yet. In my message I told him I'm leaving him this message so that I'll have to send the letter, I'll be accountable for it.
I called a friend when I woke up and she said "you just can't drink mate (from NZ), your too delicate". I'm going to cart you off to AA. And it's true. I'm extremely reactive/sensitive esp. now on Depakote. I shouldn't be drinking, not even one. Because that wonderful feeling after one seduces me and my judgement goes. Even if I stop after one or two, i"m still out of whack. It's just so hard with my job - restaurant work - to not have that end staff drink. I can't quit the job b/c I'm already drowning in debt.
anyway Barb honey, you're not alone today with your headache/guilt/dread/cringe on this gorgeous day!!
Katia
Posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 16:00:23
In reply to Alcohol Sucks!, posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 13:45:17
Hi Barb,
Here's a link: http://www.rational.org/
I'm have no no idea about the philosophy. It may worth it. It may not.
It's so hard to remember that we don't have to celebrate "feeling good" and "life" with alcohol. Unfortunately, I think for both of us, it was our medication for so long, it's become a cellular habit.
hope you're not too hard on yourself.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 16:29:59
In reply to Re: Alcohol Sucks! » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 16:00:23
Thanks, kiddo. I remember your post a while ago on Rational Recovery and, having heard of it myself many years ago, I found the site and spent most of the morning on it. It looks very very good, very different than AA whom they bash with undisguised glee. I tried AA oh, 15 or so years ago and just couldn't stand it. It reminded me of The Stepford Wives, only this was The Stepford Lushes with their cutesy slogans. It seems to help alot of people, but it wasn't for me. I'm committed to doing AVRT (Rational Recovery) which you can even go through on the website, or get the books and/or videos from the privacy of your home (while settling back with a Jack Daniels - no, just kidding). It has no meetings or sponsors. Going to a meeting has been a big problem for me because we live in a rural area which only has AA and everyone knows and gossips about each other, and damned if I'm going to be bumping into my neighbors at the grocery store after sharing 'Hi my name is Barbara and I'm not only a drunk, I'm depressed and bipolar and hate your stupid logging trucks, your 'family tree don't branch' kids, your evangelical horseshit churches - and you too - by the way!' Also, I only have a problem with yummy chardonnay so I never thought it was much a problem I couldn't control. But I sure have been buying that rich buttery brew by the cases lately.
Sorry about losing your post. I'm sure I got it through the ethers anyway. But I know how just one more thing can tip the scales and before you know it, whole tufts of hair on gouged out of your scalp. Been there.
I'm curious about your aversion to laying it on the line with your pdoc, like, Help me, Herr Doctor! I'm sure there's so much more to the story, but it seems like he isn't keeping an eye on you well enough during this crisis period. The best shrink I ever had actually called me a few times a week when I was adjusting to a new med or going through a really rough spell. He was a rare gem but it made a huge difference that he really cared about me and was there for me and besides, knew his stuff and knew how to twiddle so that my med adjustments were as painless as possible. I recall you mentioning that you had a bit of a crush on yours, so maybe this is getting in the way of wanting to appear less than attractive, or bothering him in any way?
But, in the meantime, your 'matey' is probably right about the drinking department. Sigh. It's such a lovely ritual to pass the time with friends having a colorful icy drink, getting silly, bonding. If I could only hold it to one drink and only once a week I'd really be OK. But one always turns to two, etc. - Barbara
> Hi Barb,
> Here's a link: http://www.rational.org/
> I'm have no no idea about the philosophy. It may worth it. It may not.
> It's so hard to remember that we don't have to celebrate "feeling good" and "life" with alcohol. Unfortunately, I think for both of us, it was our medication for so long, it's become a cellular habit.
> hope you're not too hard on yourself.
> Katia
Posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 17:03:33
In reply to Re: Alcohol Sucks! » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 16:29:59
Hi Barb,
I think my aversion comes from years of trying to put on a face and hide this "wacky/crazy" part of me. I know it's crazy, b/c he's a psychiatrist!!!!! But the aversion has a mind of its own. I"m just standing by watching on one level. I always downplay what I feel b/c I forget when I get into his formal office and have to report on symptoms, and I don't want to "overreact", when in reality it's reality - no overreaction. my reaction/aversion is actually surprising me and showing me a lot about how I work. I don't show myself, I don't show myself, I hide, play roles, and then WHAM! I gush and spill over and scream to be seen for who I am damnit! I want to show me and be understood - it's often a waterfall of showing who I am rather than a gradually process. And I have an inkling this is what was going on last night with my letter writing.Also, as I said above, I'm so accumstomed to even self-denial and hiding of this - this - oh, moodiness? that even when called to show up it's having a hard time coming out. ONly family and boyfriends and some close friends have really seen all sides of me and get just how much I go thru'. And more than one, no make that more than two, boyfriends have said that I'm too much for them to handle. So I get frightened and pull back inside.
It's interesting how it's playing out with my pdoc. I think he'll get the hint now that he's going to witness me in "action" tomorrow morning when he comes in and retrieves his messages.And the crush i had on him is not really a crush. It's just me playing fantasy games as usual. So I'm not sure if that is part of it.
thanks for asking.
and BTW, even when you're hungover, you're hysterical (as in funny - ha ha)!
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 1, 2003, at 19:01:43
In reply to Aversions run deep » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 17:03:33
How much to divulge about one's demons is really a dilemma. Friends and partners can take only so much and they have they're own crap to deal with. You sure can't 'fess that you're having emotional problems at work. They start looking at you more closely, you're considered a potential problem, treated differently. If we let it rip and have a breakdown or really need help because we've become 'basket-cases', that's how we're remembered from then on. People remember the drama, not the day-to-day 'I'm really OK' stuff. You get subtly branded as unstable and that's how you're regarded. There's a certain dignity that's lost forever when you lose your dignity even once. I'm not talking about the true hearbreaks in life that everyone can relate to. This is the woo-woo stuff we on this board know so well, but would seem CRAAAAZZZYYYYY to the uninitiated. It's scary to them and to the many pdocs who have never in their lives ever ventured there. They study pills and behavior, not raw emotions and agonized need.
Even best friends will probably talk to other good friends, who will also talk to their friends, about the time you came over and sobbed and vomited on their kitchen floor (that would be me). And you'll be the topic of a few amusing tales. Nothing malicious, but you'll again be subtly branded and type-cast as someone who is a bit dotty and probably should not watch your kids.
Or they'll never really forgive you for that time you were beyond irritable and said something very cutting and wounding. Sometimes it brings people closer if they can really talk about it, share mutually, forgive, find true compassion.
But most people are truly afraid of the really dark despairing stuff. I think this applies to therapists as well, unless the therapy is specifically cathartic in nature. Those folks can take it and revel in it. Perhaps this is what your anxiety and anguish need. You need your pdoc because of the med thing, but I'll bet cathartic body work or breath release work would help you (me too) alot right now. You talk about the cellular stuff. Yes, there it is, deep down.
Boy, I sure do know about expenses, cause body/breath workers don't come cheap. But I really think your reticence about showing, exposing your 'other side' is valid. Most people just can't or don't want to deal with it. It's so lonely but we have to be discerning in who we introduce our wounded wild mares to. Jesus said 'Don't cast your pearls before swine', and I think this applies as well to psychiatrists who don't want to smell even the hint of horse shit. They aren't trained that way anymore. And yet, those are the times we really need to talk to someone, to trust someone to help us. Glad we have each other. - Barbara
Posted by SUMMER2002 on September 1, 2003, at 19:19:46
In reply to Aversions run deep » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on September 1, 2003, at 17:03:33
Hi Ladies and/or Gents:
I am really getting alot out of these posts. Here are my two cents worth. One on drinking the other on transference (spelling? - can't get the spell check to work). My first meeting with my pdoc he discussed transference and how he can/will become many different things to me as I
share my experiences. This has truly been the case and I had a crush on my old pdoc who never explained transference.Anyway,like many of you I also try to act as normal as possible during the session and downplay my extreme emotions that have occurred over the last week/two weeks/ or sometimes days.
I have emailed my pdoc 4 times in the last 5 days. I've been up and down way too much. One email said ignore the last email because I was in a bad mood when I wrote it. How does someone ignore an email??!! But that was the way I really felt at the time. He called my today after reading all my emails. Did I mention that he had me transcribe the entire last session with him because he was sure I was drifting off - he was, of course, right. He asked me many questions on the phone today which I dutiful answered with yes and no --- no comments. I was a bit surprised that he felt he had to call on Labor Day - but appreciative. I promised to run next meeting and try to talk the whole session. This should be interesting. By the way I did a web search on transference and found some very interesting and enlightening information. Sorry I can't remember the specific site but just do a web search and you should be able to find some sites.
Drinking for me has been a fiasco. I am a binge drinker. When I'm down I have a couple go home and life is good. When I'm up, I drink until there is nothing left to drink. When other people drink they get tired after two or three. At three drinks I kick in and ready to go until the wee hours of the morning. It has caused me so many problems. And I am darn lucky I've never gotten a DUI. I also promised my old pdoc only to have two - but on good nights that has never lasted. Another comment - I may be the only one that loves a hangover. When I was especially bad - racing thoughts and high energy I loved hangovers. It was the only thing that would shut my brain down. It hurt to think and I loved it. I love hangovers when I'm spazzing out. But unfortunately I start to remember all the things I said and did that night before (or what I said and did when I can't remember)and just want to dig another hole and climb in. I've been very good lately and just avoid it all.
Four or five years ago (before I was diagnosed)I was talking with a client. She mentioned that her Significant Other self medicated with alcohal. The light bulb went on and I realized --Oh my gosh that's what I'm doing.
That's all for now folks.Patricia
Posted by Ima on September 1, 2003, at 23:58:59
In reply to Re: Aversions run deep » katia, posted by SUMMER2002 on September 1, 2003, at 19:19:46
She mentioned that her Significant Other self medicated with alcohal. The light bulb went on and I realized --Oh my gosh that's what I'm doing.
>
> That's all for now folks.> Patricia
I think the self medicating aspects of drugs and alcohol was a real revelation for me as well.
Ive also come to a point where I realize that the way I coped when I knew no other way, and when my exixtence was jsut to painful to bear, was drugs and alcohol.Bcat, when you were happy, do you think there was something else that made you want that first drink?
For me ,I think happiness scares me sometimes. I dont trust it.
I think people like us feel secure in the knowledge that pain is a plateua we can not fall from.
It doesnt betray us.
We know it so well.peace
Ima
Posted by delna on September 2, 2003, at 1:48:24
In reply to Lamictal Survey, posted by Ima on August 31, 2003, at 12:50:17
hi all
lamactil really changed my life. on 200mg a day i am stable enough to 'live'. still not working but getting more resposible for myself and curbing rash outbursts. have been on it since june and ofcourse i dohave break through symptoms like heavy anxiety and rare suicidal thoughts- but i cant bear taking any more meds. i am grateful for the existing results
i am also on wellbutrin 200mg and effexor 75mg.
i suffered from mixed states and rapid cycling and lamactil has really helped. however my pdoc wanted to increse my dose to 300mg, which i did and at this doesi was in an awful state. back to anger, aggression etc. others wondered what was suddenly happening. back down at 200mg - things are back to the good days of normalacy and relative stability.
hope this helps
good luck
d
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