![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 33 to 57 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by nmk on September 29, 2003, at 12:41:57
In reply to Folic acid and other ramblings » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on September 26, 2003, at 23:18:32
Hi Barbara,
Sorry for the late reply. The depression came back this past weekend after two months of feeling well. Someone up there is playing a cruel joke on me. It started two days before my period with intense anxiety and then the day I started, I spiraled downward. I have a call into my pdoc and I know he will tell me to continue the titration on the Lamictal, which I have already done. I am up to 225 mg this week and I just need to wait it out. I am so down and can barely keep it together at work today. I was in a meeting this morning trying to focus on the topic at hand but my mind was elswhere. I felt as though I was just staring at people,responding with the occassional "sure", "yes", "blah, blah, blah".
You mentioned in your response that you are taking a natural T3 thyroid med. Is it Amour (sp?)Thyroid. What dose have you found beneficial? Also, should T3 be taken alone or is it better to combine a T3/T4 med? I was taking Synthroid a year ago and it did nothing for me. Your comment about endo's rang true....i saw one a few months ago and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and he stated that I did not need meds at the present time. I ran from his office and tried the naturopath. I will address the T3 med with him.
I read in a recent thread that you are thinking of Seroquel for sleep. For me, I was able to achieve a solid, almost comatose-like sleep. The unfortunate side was that I felt hungover and foggy in the morning and this didn't clear until around noon. I was taking 25mg at night so you may want to try cutting it in half for starters. I have read that this works well for some.
Well, I should get back to work, although I feel like pouring my heart out. This is all so depressing.
Thanks for listening Barbara.
Nicole:(((
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 14:26:21
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on September 29, 2003, at 12:41:57
Hi Nicole,
Waaah! It does seem like a cruel joke, you just get used to feeling better, then - wham! BUT, another way to look at these moods is they're a very healthy response to something else that's not working. Your endo sounds like a class A idiot. That's been my beef with many of the docs I've been to. My PCP internist was baffled by my ping-ponging TSH levels, not aware of the fact that lithium interferes with thyroxine uptake, and sent off my case to the 'head endo' at my HMO. I had a chance to see my med records and saw his notes. With average TSH range being 0-5, my TSH was boinging from 17 down to .09, up to 7.0, down to .03, up to 4.1 all within the space of 5 months. He said that, while somewhat unusual, these fluctuating extreme levels shouldn't produce any clinical symptoms!!!. Up, down, all around - and this doesn't ring any bipolar bells with them? He basically said that he saw no reason to test me for Hashi's, free T3/T4 levels or any other test besides the vanilla TSH. He never mentioned lithium and advised my PCP to keep going with the ineffective Synthroid treatment which 'should be adequate' and to suspect that any claims of thyroid related health issues were due to my 'emotional lability'. My husband practically had to tie me down when I read that crap. He's the HEAD of the endo department which means it probably gets worse downline.So now I'm on 1G of Westhroid, naturally-derived as is Armour. My naturopath switched from Armour because a student whom she was advisor for did her research paper on the consistency of different natural thyroid meds and found Armour to be very inconsistent. I've heard other accusations about this that Forrest Labs vehemently denies, but there you go. Westhroid came out on top.
The T4/T3 and some T2/T1 is in dessicated thyroid, and there's some evidence that the other T's are beneficial. My personal feeling about T3 alone is that it's not good, especially for bipolars and those prone to anxiety. It enters the blood stream fast, is the active component, shoots the thyroid way up, and can cause hypomania, anxiety, heart arrythmias, sweating, headaches, hypomania, acne. It's excreted quickly and so the body goes through spiking. T4 is slower and longer lasting and supposedly converts into the active T3 form, which is why most docs feel that T4 is enough to do the job. But many of us don't convert it properly and/or there's a problem with getting both T3 or T4 into the cells and so the free form just circulates in the blood, tricking the hypothalamus/pituitary into thinking that there's enough thyroid hormone, thanks but don't make any more. I've been taking L-tyrosine 1000mg/day along with 500mg B6 and 2G Vitamin C which helps the T4/T3 conversion. I notice more energy since taking it.
Some schools of thought suspect that low thyroid isn't a problem with the thyroid gland but is an immune system dysfunction. In fact, Hashimoto's is the body's own immune system attacking the thyroid gland, and is cropping up more and more, mainly because auto-immune and inflammatory conditions can be the result of environmental toxins and toxic stress. So, if you have a clear cut dx of Hashi's, well, I can't even imagine what your endo must be thinking. Even if it's 'borderline' Hashmoto's indicates a wider spread inflammatory condition. Your naturopath should help you with this. You might want to get saliva testing to look at your cortisol levels since cortisol is what affects the immune response, whether high or low. BTW, cortisol also affects the production of sex hormones.
I'm not taking Seroquel but have been talking to Serena about it recently. She seems to indicate that it's been enough to control her fibromyaligia and bipolar. I'm trying to not use anything to sleep cause that's so much healthier but if I start having problems again, Seroquel sounds like the ticket. Are you taking it for any other reason than sleep? Does it help with BP? In other words, why did your pdoc decide upon Seroquel for you?
So, about your PMS, Hashimoto's and such. That's going to make you feel like major doo-doo. PMS usually means there's an imbalance between estrogen/progesterone which is exacerbated pre-period, but doesn't entirely go away. The thyroid is intrinsically linked with estrogen and to a lesser degree progesterone. I hope your naturopath is helping you with this because you'll feel so much better once these underlying problems are balanced and you won't until things start the healing process.
Hang in there, kiddo! You know how this mood disorder thing is, it's like the weather - wait a few minutes and it'll change. In the meantime, just think how great you'll feel when you start feeling good again - and I have total faith that you'll find your way. - Barbara
Posted by nmk on September 30, 2003, at 12:06:08
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on September 29, 2003, at 14:26:21
Barbara,
Wow! I wish you were my physician....you know more than any docs I have encountered. Now go get your MD.
Just to clarify your response regarding the Westhroid. Is it only a T3 and you are supplementing it to aid in the conversion of T3 to T4 or is Westhroid a combined T3/T4 med? I will be sure to discuss this with my naturopath the next time I see him, although I know he is a big proponent of Amour. Like you, Synthroid did zilch for me and I know I need to try a different path.
As always, thanks for everthing Barbara.
PS Today I am feeling a bit brighter. I think the increase in Lamictal may be kickin' in.
Nicole :)
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2003, at 15:17:33
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on September 30, 2003, at 12:06:08
Thanks for your vote of confidence, Nicole. I've had many years to devote to learning about my own condition and about other areas of health that interest me. I've gained a great respect for these wondrous bodies of ours - so fascinating and really require very little outside of the basics!
I respect MDs for their ability to handle crisis care, like broken bones, appendixes, pneumonia, surgeries - things that require quick action. When I've needed stiches, had pneumonia, car accident, my first thought was 'Emergency Room!' and not my naturopath. But, unfortunately they come short on wellness care, and we're all suffering for it.
So, Westhroid is a natural dessicated thyroid hormone derived from pigs or cows. It's the same as Armour, a natural thryoid with the same ratio of T4/T3. I'm taking it by itself and no longer take the T4 Synthroid generic. Natural thyroid hormone, whether Armour, Westhroid or others, contain the whole thyroid gland. There are other types of thyroid hormones like T1/T2 in the pills. We also have T1 and T2. No one at this point is sure what they do, but there must be a reason why they're there, eh? The only difference between Armour and Westhroid is they're made by different companies and the potency of Westhroid has been said to be more consistent than Armour. In fact, there's currently a legal case against Armour for that reason, along with some other reasons I'm not up on. Armour used to be made by the 'Armour Thyroid' company which has been bought over by Forrest Labs. Forrest Labs makes other kinds of drugs as well and keeps Armour on board, but it's not a big money maker for them with little incentive to put alot of energy into, from what I've been hearing for many years.
I've taken Armour before for quite a while and stopped because it just felt 'rough' and seemed to vary from batch to batch. I was getting too much T3 and felt hyper. Since being on Westhroid it feels alot smoother. There's a great website that will tell you more than you could ever possibly digest about thyroid:
You won't find much against Armour because they take a sympathetic stand for it, but I believe it's got more to do with defending natural vs. synthetic than the actual Armour brand. Armour is the oldest and most well-known brand of natural dessicated thyroid and so many folks aren't aware that there are other brands out there.
Ask your doctor about taking L-Tyrosine as well. It's a precursor amino acid that helps to convert T4 to T3, and helps with cellular uptake. L-Tyrosine also has other powerful properties involved in the production of norepinephrine and dopamine - very crucial for us poor neurotransmittor challenged folks! It's an effective antidepressant for many, myself included! You need to take it in the morning along with Vitamins B6 and C and a little protein. I've got some more info on it but it's in .pdf format and my Acrobat program got corrupted.
I'm finding an extra little dab of Lamictal is helping as well. It's a great drug and I'm soooooo thankful for it. Just about every psychotropic med has pass through these lips and you get kinda discouraged when they keep fizzling. Just hope I don't get the intense itchies like last time when I increased it, maybe a little too fast. So, here's to us and keeping up our improvements! - Barbara
Posted by nmk on October 1, 2003, at 12:08:22
In reply to Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2003, at 15:17:33
Thanks Barbara for the Westhroid information...sounds very promising and I will ask my doc for a trial run at my next visit. I just want to make sure I don't over do it with the T3 for fear that my anxiety level will sky rocket further than it already is.
I am glad the increase in Lam is working for you too. I am still doing well and have crawled out of the black hole I was in this past weekend. I love the med but I find it so activating.....I feel a little hyper and racey (if that is a word). By far, it beats feeling depressed but it doesn't help with the anxiety much. I have also found that with higher doses (I am at 225mg) I get headaches every day. This is a small price to pay for beating the blues. I just hope two tylenol's per day won't harm me too much.
Continue to feel well and a big hug to you.
Nicole
Posted by jrbecker on October 1, 2003, at 23:23:28
In reply to Folic acid and other ramblings » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on September 26, 2003, at 23:18:32
I also take folate and b12 in combo. the best version of b12 I've found is by far the methylcobalamin form -- also known as brain b12. it has a much higher blood-brain barrier permeability than regular b12 (cyanocobalamin). the methylcobalamin form is harder to find, but it's usually available in most specialty health food stores.
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/3/6/461.html
b12 is probably the best supplement I've found in addition to meds. It improves mood, sleep, energy, and focus, with no side effects. the folate works in similar ways I'm sure and the research currently points the finger more at folate deficiency than b12, but I feel like I'm getting more of a boost from the b12. they work great in combo, since they both effect the methylation process, believed to be important in mood/immune support/metobolism.
Posted by nk on October 2, 2003, at 12:23:12
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings, posted by jrbecker on October 1, 2003, at 23:23:28
Hi there,
My naturopath has me on injectible B12, 1cc twice per week. I had asked him if I can simply get the B12 from oral supplements and he stated that the body doesn't absorb it as efficiently. Any insight into this?
Nicole
Posted by katia on October 2, 2003, at 19:18:07
In reply to Re: How does lamictal feel and how much does it help?? » DayByDay, posted by BarbaraCat on September 22, 2003, at 14:38:22
Hey Barb,
Which site do you get cheap supplements from? I'm comparing prices to the metabolic nutritionist that I see tomorrow.
thanks.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 0:03:56
In reply to Where to buy fish oil? » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on October 2, 2003, at 19:18:07
I like www.iherb.com. They have a huge selection and the best prices I've seen, at least 30% off retail prices. You get free shipping with orders over $40 (maybe its $50) and there are additional discounts based on how much your order and other things. Customer service is great. There are also good articles about various maladies buried within. I get most of my supplements from there.
I get my fish oil from Dr. Barry Sears of The Zone fame. Very expensive - $60 for 8 oz but I think it's the cadillac of fish oils. The other brand I get for a change of pace and expense is Carlson's 'The Very Best Fish Oil' - stupid name but a good product for alot less money. Whatever brand you go with, you have to get the liquid because taking 12G of pills would gag a horse.
Good luck with your appointment. Let me know what comes of it. - Barbar
> Hey Barb,
> Which site do you get cheap supplements from? I'm comparing prices to the metabolic nutritionist that I see tomorrow.
> thanks.
> Katia
Posted by katia on October 3, 2003, at 0:45:43
In reply to Re: Where to buy fish oil? » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 0:03:56
Hiya,
As I did a search I found eherb and remembered that was your site. Is 9-12g of fish oil a day too much? I'm currently taking 3g.
Also, I hope you read the article about mercury in the fish oil - it's on the e-herb site. Just be aware of it.
I had an hour long session with a "psychic" today and my goodness how helpful it was, affirming of things I was already intuitively feeling plus more.... But one thing she said was it would be best to stop drinking for about two years as so much is lining up in me with my life and that would directly interfere, also with the medication.
anyway, just thought I'd let you know that as we have somewhat of a support duo around that. it may look like I have to give up entirely (for two years at least). I feel the same = in agreement with. It's the final chunk in allowing transformation to take it's course for me personally. One is too much even. right now at least. :-(
I just have to let it go. I'll need help.
talk to you soon.
katia
god, how hard this is. But at least now I have medication to medicate me properly.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 3, 2003, at 18:11:17
In reply to Where to buy fish oil? » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on October 2, 2003, at 19:18:07
> Which site do you get cheap supplements from?
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect this aspect of this thread to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/265317.html
Bob
Posted by jrbecker on October 3, 2003, at 18:54:32
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » jrbecker, posted by nk on October 2, 2003, at 12:23:12
You're right, the body doesn't absorb b12 readily. that's why some have to take such high dosages to see an effect (e.g., 1000 mcg = 18000% RDA). But taking a B12 supplement 1-2 times a day does guarantee that your body's having a lot access to it for absorption (your body gets rid of the excess since it's H2O-soluble). injectable shots are a much more guaranteed way of getting b12 into the blood. But honestly, unless they are needed for a) for a special condition, or b) you're failry sick physically; you can probably get enough b12 from a high oral dose 1-2 times.
Of course, the whole need for extra supplemental b12 only makes sense only if we buy into the logic that b12 has something to do with our mood disorder (and perhaps it does). I just know that b12 supplements have helped me personally.
But most people, seem to get enough b12 for a healthy diet.> Hi there,
>
> My naturopath has me on injectible B12, 1cc twice per week. I had asked him if I can simply get the B12 from oral supplements and he stated that the body doesn't absorb it as efficiently. Any insight into this?
>
> Nicole
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 23:54:49
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » nk, posted by jrbecker on October 3, 2003, at 18:54:32
Hi Nicole,
I was taking injectable B12 about once a week. I get a weird rash when I did it however, and think it might be the red dye in it or maybe the cyanocobalamin form. I'm now using sublingual methylcobalamin and feel like it's a better way to go for me. But I still take injectible B complex and don't have that problem. The only thing that puzzles me is that I don't get the yellow pee like I do when I take pills. So that's got me wondering if I'm going deep enough. What kind of needle do you use? I use a 29 guage x 1/2" insulin needle and wonder if I need a bigger one. - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 13:01:39
In reply to Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on September 30, 2003, at 15:17:33
HI Barb,
The name was Armour. I found this thread and it came back to me. I knew it was glittery and some kind of surface = armour...
I'll look into that website re: thryoid.In the morning, if you get up too early and start moving too quickly, do feel spacy and dizzy and attribute it to not being a morning person? That's how all of my mornings are if I have to get going somewhere right away.
btw, how are you?
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:49:36
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 13:01:39
Hi Katia,
Westhroid is better than Armour, according to my Naturopath, and my own experience, having had both. It's got the same ingredients and the same doses, but for some reason it's less jaggy feeling than Armour. Armour is the best known, however, and many doctors aren't aware of any others.I'm doing OK, thanks for asking, Katia. I've been going through a major fibro flare with tons of really agonizing pain. It's like a major toothache visits different parts of my body and I'm really exausted but can't stay asleep and wake up around 3:30am every stinkin' morning, which does not help the fibro one bit. So I stayed in bed the last few days but was able to go to a dinner get together last night and had a great time. Thanks to good old Vicodin and Oxycontin I was able to forget my pains for a while and have a great time. Had some swamp juice as well and feel ok today.
Yes, I also get the woozy feeling in the morning and it's hard to get moving. That's also a symptom of low thyroid. You're just sluggish and muzzy until you start moving around and getting the chi flowing. But being in major pain makes that a bit harder to say the least. I think the pills we're taking also contribute to the morning fuzzies. Boy oh Boy, you should take Deseryl to really experience early morning woozies. I was working at the time and getting up around 6:30am and had to force and prod myself with the help of my husband into the shower where I'd gradually come to consciousness. Anything that affects histamine will do that. I don't think Lamictal works that way. Maybe Depakote affects you like that? So how are you doing with the Lam, etc.? - Barbara
Posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 17:21:38
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:49:36
Hi,
The lam. is not quite as activating as it was. I'll be at 15mg until Wed. and then 25mg. I'm down to 500mg of Dep. from 750 and feel a little more energy.
I actually went to my first AA meeting today. It was good. I voiced my concerns of the "Him" overtone and "powerlessness" and actually got great feedback. Lots of people have resistance to this org. due to those things, but it's really about semantics and it's just a group support system.
I'll try Life Ring and see what I like best. It's time. I tried to quit until the end of Oct. when the doctor said he'll put me on Antabuse (at my request), but the little monster in me came out Sat. night and thought "well I've got to the end of Oct to live it up!!". I felt like **it yesterday and decided enough is enough. I need to go.
I'll let you know how things progress.yes, that feeling in the morning is something that is very familiar. I am dazed and confused and dizzy with dark circles under my puffy eyes unable to wake up. Ummmmmmm.
I'm going off the Dep. and depending on how the Lam. goes on it's own, we'll see about adding Lithium. Maybe once the drinking gets out of the picture, my mood might improve too.
take care,
Katia
Posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 17:26:04
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:49:36
Hi Barb,
Just wondering, did you get this reply to you? I think it was redirected to alternative before you got it.
here's the linkhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/266018.html
My message to you (the latest one) is at the bottom of it all.
cheers-
katiA
Posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 18:14:08
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:49:36
Hey Barb,
While doing in a search for FAMA (that test) I came across (lo and behold) a thread from psychobabble a couple years back:here's the link.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011025/msgs/82570.html
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 8, 2003, at 1:27:37
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on October 6, 2003, at 17:21:38
Hi Katia,
I haven't heard of Life Ring. Heard of Life Spring but not Ring. Please let me know? Yes, this alcohol jones is a tough one. I always wish I hadn't done it the morning after and then I forget how sickly and ashamed I felt a few days afterwards thinking 'Oh, it wasn't so bad. I can handle it.' I've been doing pretty well but without an ongoing support system it's very hard. After all, it's the support system we find in alcohol that makes it so hard to resist. You have to have some kind of incentive to stay on track.BTW, are we on the substance board? I never know anymore. I feel like a file clerk sometimes with all these folders to keep track of. Anyhow, I had a hard time with AA. Although, like you, we share similar spiritual paths and I certainly believe in a Higher Power, it was difficult to sit in a room with all those Higher Powers of the fundamentalist persuasion - I kept praying 'God, get me out of here'! Also, the snappy little slogans really annoyed the living crap out of me. My eyeballs kept rolling up and smashing against the top of my skull and I spent most of the time fighting against snorting and sniggering. Oh well. I know it works for many and worked like a miracle for a friend of mine who has been sober for 5 years now. She's found a loving community of friends who will go the distance for each other. She says that finding the right group is the key and sometimes takes some work to find. She goes to meetings everyday, not because she's still in a delicate place, but because she loves it. She's someone I love and respect dearly, so her opinion means alot.
I live in such a small rural community where AA is the only game in town. I know that confidentiality is stressed, but this is not realistic in a small town where gossip (besides drinking) is the favorite pasttime.
Have you heard of Women for Sobriety? I looked into them a few years ago and it really appealed to me. They don't subscribe to the disease, helpless philosophy but target self esteem issues and a bond of sisterhood and support. So, good luck, my friend. - Barbara
Posted by fluffy on October 8, 2003, at 11:27:54
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 8, 2003, at 1:27:37
Hi Barb-cat (and Katia!!)
Barb-cat--can I redirect you to the bottom of the message board? I have some questions re: benzo withdrawal and the itchiness you described with Lamictal.
Thanks,
Katy
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 9, 2003, at 0:47:12
In reply to Ha!! I found you!!, posted by fluffy on October 8, 2003, at 11:27:54
Hey Hey, La Fluff!! Wondered about you. Was about to send out an all points bulletin. Sure, be glad to talk about the infernal itchies (I didn't get them this time with sloooowww titration). Just provide a link to the redirect and we'll resume our gabs. - Barbara
> Hi Barb-cat (and Katia!!)
>
> Barb-cat--can I redirect you to the bottom of the message board? I have some questions re: benzo withdrawal and the itchiness you described with Lamictal.
>
> Thanks,
> Katy
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 9, 2003, at 2:32:34
In reply to Re: Westhroid vs. Armour thyroid » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on October 8, 2003, at 1:27:37
> BTW, are we on the substance board?
No, here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20030903/msgs/267137.html
> I never know anymore. I feel like a file clerk sometimes with all these folders to keep track of.
If you're reading a post, it says at the top of the page what board it's on. If you're posting yourself, your message will go to the board listed right after "enter your post" or "revise your post":
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#redirect
Bob
Posted by nmk on October 11, 2003, at 18:16:43
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » jrbecker, posted by BarbaraCat on October 3, 2003, at 23:54:49
Hi Barbara,
Sorry it took so long to reply but the forward on your post was to jbecker so I didn't read it until going back to re-read your posts on thryoid. Anyway, I use a 25G 3/5 needle for my B 12. I do have the yellow pee but I don't know if it is because of the boatload of vitamins I am taking or the fact that I don't drink my daily 8 glasses of H2O.
Hope all is well with you and you are continuing to feel good. In the past two weeks, I have cycled up and down twice. Here is the pattern: I feel "normal" for a few days, then progress into a hypomanic state (coupled with high anxiety and insomnia), and then crash into a depression for a few days. I have noticed that the depression is starting to lift today and am hoping the increase in Lamictal will do the trick. I have put two phone calls in to my pdoc in the past two weeks and he has not responded. I decided to take matters into my own hands and up the Lamictal to 225mg. Does everyone have a problem with their pdoc's not returning calls?
Do you know if Lamictal is the med of choice for rapid cycling? Also, I know AD's can cause cycling but I am at such a low dose (50 mg zoloft) so I don't know if this is the culprit or I simply need to keep going with the Lamictal. I have already packed on an additional 10 pds. from the nighttime remeron and am fearful to try another mood stabilizer that will pack on even more.
Again, sorry for the delayed reply.....I would never ignore your posts.
Nicole:))))))
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 12, 2003, at 1:38:29
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » BarbaraCat, posted by nmk on October 11, 2003, at 18:16:43
No problem, Nicole. I haven't been feeling to perky myself lately. Don't know what it is, if I need more thyroid since I recently went from levothyroixin to a lower dose of the natural stuff. Been really dragging, not going outside, getting more and more fat and blobby and I really hate that, but I just can't seem to motivate to put on the stupid shoes and go for a walk - to where? I know it would feel better, but it all seems so pointless and a waste of time. Oh well, there's plenty of tapes in my garage I could listen to while I chugged along but jeez, I'd have to wade through the piles of boxes to find them. I am sooooo sluggish I have to do something.
About your rapid cycling, I've heard that Depakote is the drug of choice for that, but Lamictal can either even it out or destabilize you. I'd suspect the Zoloft and Remeron are the culprits. I sure did better once I got off all SSRI's, especially Remeron and even at a smidgen (7.5mg).
But what to do about depression when the lamictal just isn't cutting it? I wish I knew. It seems to be great for maintaining a good mood and preventing mixed states, but I haven't found it adequate to lift me out of a real down time. This time of year with all the Christmas stuff starting to surface, I've been getting waves of grief about my Mom dying last December. I guess grief takes it own time to process. But I absolutely lost it in Costco the other day. No one really saw me weeping cause I hid in the pet food aisle and didn't make a spectacle, but I also didn't care. I've been weeping and moping and feeling really tired. I wonder what's going on. Yes, there's the grieving for my Mom, but all this crying and isolating is raising a red flag. Why am I falling into a depression now when I've raised the lamictal? Oh, all this throwing medical darts at us hoping some will hit a target has got me so drained.
You know, your comment about your pdoc not returning your calls, that's rather rude, don't you think? Even if he's out of town, there should be someone on call. It doesn't sound like you're calling him every hour or so either. He gets paid a very good wage to stay on top of things and provide a sense of security for his patients. I'd mention it if I were you.
My experience is that they'll return them usually that day, but my current one is so busy working in an HMO situation that it's difficult for him to find the time. I don't especially like it, but I've cut the emotional cord to him and no longer depend upon him for anything except writing my scripts. How sad. I had a few that were wonderful and I felt that I was in safe strong hands. But they are rare.
I'm resigned to the fact that I have to go through this recent thing on my own. Me, my journal, and my Babble Buddys. My husband is there in the background, but he has his own life, there are no pdocs in the world that are going to make a difference. They've mainly become psychopharmacologists. The psychologists just seem like cognitive behavioral whores committed to fixing you in 10 sessions by God or else. My friends have their own lives and will listen to me very lovingly, but I know I can't expect them to take me in and take care of me. Basically, no one can take care of me except me and my link with Spirit and I'm totally accepting of this. I don't like it, but I can manage. Howver, I wish the little house cleaning and bill paying elves would show up at my house. I can always tells something's up when the house begins to get real cluttered and looks like the inside of my mind. Where's hubby in all this? Who knows. I'm too tired to police him and besides it's my clutter.
So here we are, Nicole, trying to muddle by as best we can. It will pass, your moods will even out. I think the most helpful thing we can do is just keep telling ourselves we can take it, we're not going to shatter, we're just going to hold on until the tide turns again. I also want you to know that your being on this board is a very nice thing for me. I always look forward to your posts. Joy to you and me. - Barbara
Posted by nmk on October 12, 2003, at 15:18:06
In reply to Re: Folic acid and other ramblings » nmk, posted by BarbaraCat on October 12, 2003, at 1:38:29
Barbara,
As I read your last paragraph, I broke down and started to cry. I am raining tears all over my keyboard and I hope it doesn't short-out on me.
I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling down. Everything you described about the lack of motivation, sluggishness, and that feeling that your moods are spiraling downward is exactly how I am feeling at the present. I haven't been able to muster up any energy to exercise since my baby was born 22 month ago. When I am depressed, it is a struggle just to get out of bed, let alone exercise.
It is frightening not knowing if you are headed toward a full-blown depression or if this is simply a little blip that shall soon pass. The anniversary of your mother's death could very well be the source of your depression, especially since it is the first anniversary. This was such a traumatic loss for you and I know she is always on your mind. To make matters worse, the holidays are supposed to be such a joyous occasion yet all you probably want to do is avoid everybody and their cheerfulness and climb into bed.
Support is key but you are right when you talk about friends and husband's who only want to hear so much. I have tried the therapy route for 4 years after my first bout with PPD and after awhile, I realized there was only so much I could say about my mother. It was my brain chemistry that was screwed up and no amount of therapy would fix that.
As you mentioned, it seems like an uphill battle that we are fighting alone. I know you are very proactive in your treatment and educated (probably more than your pdoc) but how do you know when to follow what you know based on your research or go with what the pdoc recommends with what he/she feels is "best" for you? This is my dilemma. Everytime I bring some info into the session based on what I have read, he seems to have his own opinions regarding my treatment plan. There is only so much research I can do before I drive myself crazy, so to speak, and at times I feel like telling him, "THIS IS YOUR JOB!!!!!!!".
But we don't live in a perfect world.I am so fearful right now. At what point do you say, "this is as good as it is going to get" and move on from there? This may sound silly but I have so much envy when I look out my window at my neighbors who are out-and-about doing everday tasks like yard work, exercise, etc.. I would give anything to feel like them....normal and not trapped in this awful mind of mine.
I will hang in there but you need to promise to hang in with me. Right now, this board is my only support and you mean the world to me.
I am dripping again....got to go.
Take care,
Nicole
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