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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on August 30, 2002, at 5:14:03
In reply to Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by LLL on August 29, 2002, at 19:46:30
Normally sleep is better on omega-3 but I have seen several reports on this board which opposed that point of view.
There were many changes in your medication at the same time here and any of those changes could have an effect too.The only way to find out if it is the omega-3 is to try different doses and see what happens.20% of the brain is omega-3.
Posted by gheld on August 30, 2002, at 8:22:24
In reply to Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by LLL on August 29, 2002, at 19:46:30
Perhaps you should take your Omegabrite in the morning and take advantage of the adrenaline surge. I think the value of Omega supplements has been long proven. Note Barry Sears just published a new book on it connected with the Zone diet.
Posted by LLL on August 30, 2002, at 9:14:32
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by gheld on August 30, 2002, at 8:22:24
The first day I took it with dinner.That was the start of awakening at night. The second and third day I took it with my three meals (that was when I had no sleep and constant surges of anxiety or a sense of excitement (I really cannot describe it) in my chest. All I can say is that since I stopped those feelings of adrenaline surges stopped and although I am taking .25mg at bedtime, I am sleeping well.
Since I do not suffer from depression and am generally a happy person with a good amount of energy (except when I push on the boundaries of my agoraphobia)I have to be careful with anything that promises to help depression. It seems I do not need need to be energized, and that's the effect I get. Increasing energy for me seems to equal increased anxiety and no sleep.
I'm just praying for this parnate to wash out so that I can begin again on St.John Wort, which did in fact help me. However, I cannot get a good answer on how long I have to wait.
I'm donating my Omega 3 to my husband who had a heart attack 12 years ago!
Thanks for your help.
Posted by LLL on August 30, 2002, at 9:16:04
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » LLL, posted by johnj on August 29, 2002, at 22:23:22
Wow! thanks so much. So I'm really not the only one! All I know is that since I stopped, those symptoms stopped. That's enough proof for me!
Posted by johnj on August 30, 2002, at 10:16:39
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » johnj, posted by JonW on August 29, 2002, at 23:27:27
I was taking 3 to 5 grams and even with 3 my sleep was disturbed. when I say broken I meand I would wake up a lot more than usual and just stopped getting a good nights sleep.
Posted by crepuscular on August 30, 2002, at 10:25:53
In reply to Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by LLL on August 29, 2002, at 19:46:30
i was taking 4gms/day and it seemed to make things worse in terms of sleep (early waking.) now i'm at 1.25 gms/day and holding steady.
i think this is a good supplement for a number of reasons. and long term exposure to a lower dose should still be of significant benefit to almost anybody.
take what you can tolerate, no more.
c.
Posted by johnj on August 30, 2002, at 12:46:08
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by crepuscular on August 30, 2002, at 10:25:53
Take what you can tolerate and no more. I am reluctant to even go to 1 g due to sleep disturbances, but I may try it one day.
Posted by Roo on August 30, 2002, at 12:52:12
In reply to Good advice » crepuscular, posted by johnj on August 30, 2002, at 12:46:08
Have y'all been finding it helpful for your depression?
Do you take your dose all at once, or throughout the
day? How long was it before you started noticing feeling
better?
Posted by LLL on August 30, 2002, at 12:52:21
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » johnj, posted by JonW on August 29, 2002, at 23:27:27
I took the standard dose as listed on the Omegabrite box. One 500mg capsule, three times a day with meals. It only took one capsule for me to awaken in the middle of the night and have trouble falling back to sleep and it only took one full day of the regimen to cause me to be awake the entire night. Let me add that I *NEVER* have insomnia - sleep is my drug of choice!
Posted by missliz on August 31, 2002, at 2:46:14
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » JonW, posted by LLL on August 30, 2002, at 12:52:21
The symptoms you describe are very much like those I had when I came off Parnate- It was like a curcuit got stuck open and the cortisol went haywire. I had such pains in my chest I thought I would die! Classic Panic stuff for six weeks, needed 5 mg of Xanax a day to break it.
So, perhaps you could wait 'till the Parnate washes out and things settle down and then give the fish oil a fair chance. Parnate is a really powerful drug, and my pdoc said that weirdnesses will often crop up from it even after it's discontinued. O 3 is just a protein found all through your body and ought to just be excreted if it's not needed. It sounds odd that food (fish oil is food, not a drug or a supplement) would do this stuff to you.Miss Liz
Posted by LLL on August 31, 2002, at 8:50:43
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » LLL, posted by missliz on August 31, 2002, at 2:46:14
Thanks for the support. However, I never took more than 10mgs for 12 days and felt better with each passing day I was off of it. For this to happen only for the 3 days I took Omega3 and then stop after stopping the Omeag3 is highly peculiar. But then again, it may have to do with the residual effects of the Parnate. I will try again in the future after a full month has passed and see what happens. I agree, I didn't think that something like this would cause any problem!
Posted by Linkadge on September 1, 2002, at 8:25:39
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » missliz, posted by LLL on August 31, 2002, at 8:50:43
You have to make one change at a time
to be sure. I don't think omega 3 causes
any side effects, it is an essential fatty
acid, your body will not absorb levels that
lead to toxixity.
Linkadge
Posted by winger on September 1, 2002, at 20:25:17
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on August 30, 2002, at 5:14:03
I had the same problems with the adrenaline like rush from omega -3 and vitamine E suppliments.. I thougt it was all in my head...!
Maybe those supplements effect the way our liver processes the medications?
Posted by LLL on September 1, 2002, at 22:27:37
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by winger on September 1, 2002, at 20:25:17
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 1:31:06
In reply to Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by LLL on August 29, 2002, at 19:46:30
I too experienced an energized effect when I first started taking fish oil. However, I was reading Dr. Sears book when I started and was ready for it. In his book, Dr. Sears talks about how fish oil increases serotonin and the effect I had felt much like when I was switching ADs and had a crossover buildup of serotonin, the same almost 'trippy' effect with insomnia and wild dreams. It went away after about 1 week. One other thing, very important, is the ratio of EPA to DHA in the fish oil. I don't know what OmegaBright's ratios are, but the story is that people with bipolar disorder should definitely NOT take the high DHA low EPA brand. This can cause severe depression in bipolars. In other problems, however, just the opposite is true regarding EPA/DHA ratios. I take Dr. Sears exhorbitantly expensive swill and wonder if it's really doing anything much anymore. Maybe I'm acclimatized to it now, but jeez louise, I sure knew I was feeling something at the start.
Posted by LLL on September 3, 2002, at 13:51:23
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » LLL, posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 1:31:06
Thank you soooooo much! Does this mean I'm very sensitive to an increase in Serotonin? Is this why I can't handle the SSRI's. I don't have depression, but do have panic disorder/agoraphobia. I hope this doesn't mean I'm manic!
Thanks
Posted by LLL on September 3, 2002, at 15:45:47
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » LLL, posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 1:31:06
I looked on the box and it states that OmegaBrite has the highest concentration of EPA available with a ratio of 7:1 EPA to DHA. I decided I'm not going to take something that makes me feel bad, (when I already feel good), in the hopes it will help me in those situations when I get anxious. Thank you so much again for sharing that information. I hope others out there read this as well, because our experiences were certainly very real and uncomfortable. I almost talked my GYN into increasing my hormones because I thought that was the culprit. Much worse though is my current and about to be my ex pdoc explanation for what I was feeling on the OmegaBrite was the 10mgs of Parnate I was on for 12 days (she hates MAOI's however) had helped me feel better but now it was wearing off and thus causing me to feel anxious and have insomnia. Never mind that I *NEVER* before had insomnia or felt anxious around the clock or fairly continuoulsy (just situationally)with surges of adrenaline! She considered this more proof that I MUST be on a AD, especially Celexa soon to be Lexapro. She actually went so far to tell me that I couldn't hope to recover unless I was always on a AD, that benzo's (she's a benzophobe) along with cognitive behavioral therapy/exercise/meditation/diet etc. would NEVER help! This is after talking with me (and not listening very well) on one prior occassion for 45 minutes!
Sigh, where are the good pdocs out there?!
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 3, 2002, at 22:25:21
In reply to For BarbaraCat » BarbaraCat, posted by LLL on September 3, 2002, at 15:45:47
Gad! I'd say run, don't walk to another pdoc. Benzophobes should all have to walk around for just one day in our shoes and see what they think! I've been on every AD out there and benzos have been my lifesaver. They don't exactly make me get 'better', but the stress otherwise makes me much worse. And to say that exercise/diet/meditation, etc. will NEVER work is a pile of poop. They may not be the heavy guns you need to pull you out of a depression, but without lifestyle support, there's not much of a life. I wish I knew where the good pdocs are. I think there's plenty of them out there, but they've gotten chewed and swallowed up in managed health care hell and are probably just as depressed as we are. But really, you could definitely do better than your current ditz, so don't settle for such balderdash from anyone.
>She actually went so far to tell me that I couldn't hope to recover unless I was always on a AD, that benzo's (she's a benzophobe) along with cognitive behavioral therapy/exercise/meditation/diet etc. would NEVER help! This is after talking with me (and not listening very well) on one prior occassion for 45 minutes!
> Sigh, where are the good pdocs out there?!
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 0:49:15
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » BarbaraCat, posted by LLL on September 3, 2002, at 13:51:23
I hope this doesn't mean I'm manic.... hmmmmm. Not for me to say, however, finding out that I was bipolar solved many puzzles for me and I'm glad to have a better handle on my symptoms than when I though I was 'just' having major depression. This is a checklist that I wish I had had many years ago.
1. When first starting SSRI's do you feel very speedy or amped up the first few weeks?
2. When first starting SSRIs's do you feel like your skin is crawling or your jaw hurts from cleching it? Is it physical discomfort for the first few weeks until you 'get used to it'?
3. Have you had times when you didn't need as much sleep, that is, you had energy to spare and didn't want to be bothered with sleep because you had so many dang projects going on? Are these times cyclical in nature?
4. Have you had periods when you really needed sleep but couldn't fall asleep because your thoughts were revving?
5. Is insomnia a real problem for you, i.e., does it cause you more anxiety and complexity in a big way when you're not getting enough sleep? Do things fall apart pretty fast when you're not getting enough sleep? (This is not just a bipolar problem, but lack of sleep will elicit a hypomanic episode pretty reliably.)
6. Do your episodes of quick thinking and elation eventually become out of control and disorganized? Do these high flying states inevitably crash into despair and depression? Are these highs and lows cyclical?
7. Have you spent loads of money and bought tons of stuff because of your projects and later looked upon the piles of stuff with utter dismay?
8. Do you flit from one thing to another, getting easily distracted? Is this a typical way of life for you, or does it come and go? Why do you think this distracted behavior is indicative of bipolar vs. ADD? Or vice versa?
9. Have you on occasion been rather flamboyant and delightfully crazed with brilliant (or so you think) ideas flowing fast? Do these wild sprees feel like some bright spirit has wandered in, and then leaves, leaving you feeling bereft and dull? Are these events cyclical?
8. Do you have paradoxical reactions to drugs, i.e., downers speed you up and uppers calm you down? (Note: this may also be a sign of ADD, but is also a bipolar red flag).
9. Name 3 things that you love to do more than anything, that has brought you joy from way back.
1.
2.
3.10. Are you doing any one of these things more than 10% of your life right now in a way that is supporting you financially and spiritually?
11. If yes, you're probably not a regular to this board, if not, how do you react to the loss of these joys in your life?
Sorry to get of on a supposed tangent, but all these questions are very relevant. Any one of 1-8 answered yes should make you rethink your diagnosis towards bipolar. If you are bipolar, then you need to address it in a very different way than amy other diagnosis. NOTHING to be ashamed, upset or horrified about - it's just, well, different. I'm not 'better' by any means, but thank Spirit and appropriate meds, I no longer have the bleak despairing horrors of the past. And BTW, the last three questions, to me, are the crux of everything. - Barbara
> Thank you soooooo much! Does this mean I'm very sensitive to an increase in Serotonin? Is this why I can't handle the SSRI's. I don't have depression, but do have panic disorder/agoraphobia. I hope this doesn't mean I'm manic!
> Thanks
Posted by LLL on September 4, 2002, at 14:14:45
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » LLL, posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 0:49:15
Hi, thanks for the quiz. Except for the increased anxiety on SSRI's (something they cause in people with anxiety disorders and others) I cannot relate to any of the other symptoms. No big highs, no deep lows, never insomnia (except as a drug side effect) and generally happy and gregarious except for the restrictions of agoraphobia. I just don't understand how increasing Serotonin is supposed to help those of us with panic disorder if it causes increased anxiety? I'm going back to St. John's Wort and before ditching my pdoc will try to get a script out of her for Klonopin to give it a trial.
Thanks
Posted by BarbaraCat on September 4, 2002, at 22:03:28
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » BarbaraCat, posted by LLL on September 4, 2002, at 14:14:45
Hey, please keep us posted on the ST. John's Wort. I was using that for a while when going to a naturopath. I absolutely loved the response from it, felt a 'sparkly' good feeling. It was great, until I hit a very very stressful point at work and it wasn't strong enough to prevent a crash into depression. I'm actually thinking of started it up again. You'll probably love the Klonopin. It made a big difference for me. Try to get the brand name from your doc. There's a strong consensus that it's superior to the generic. Good Luck! - BarbaraCat
> Hi, thanks for the quiz. Except for the increased anxiety on SSRI's (something they cause in people with anxiety disorders and others) I cannot relate to any of the other symptoms. No big highs, no deep lows, never insomnia (except as a drug side effect) and generally happy and gregarious except for the restrictions of agoraphobia. I just don't understand how increasing Serotonin is supposed to help those of us with panic disorder if it causes increased anxiety? I'm going back to St. John's Wort and before ditching my pdoc will try to get a script out of her for Klonopin to give it a trial.
> Thanks
Posted by T Ejector on October 6, 2003, at 11:28:44
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » missliz, posted by LLL on August 31, 2002, at 8:50:43
I started taking omega-3 a week ago, to begin with i felt a definit sense of calmness but that has turned to a feeling of axiety in my chest (very scary) which seems to tally with some of the other reports. The reason i gave it a try is because i have been suffering from chronic fatigue for the last year and when i read about the possible benefits as in improved immune system i thought why not. I have had numerous tests which all show i am perfectly fit & healthy my question to these results is always the same; why do i feel terrible all of the time. The tests continue, any suggestions?
Posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:35:26
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by T Ejector on October 6, 2003, at 11:28:44
What kind are you taking? What kind of physical/emotional feelings are you having with your chest thing? I've been taking aroun 9G of pharmaceutical grade highly purified liquid oil. Even if it costs alot more, if you decide to take fish oil it's important to get the best brand possible. You can get oxidized oils from some products, less than the stated amounts from others. Some less than highly purified products can contain contaminants and high levels of mercury which is a definite and potent neuotoxin. The best one I've found is OmegaRx Liquie by Barry Sears of The Zone Diet but it's very expensive. The other that's gotten high marks is OmegaBrite by Dr. Stoll, the founder of the fish oil research. - BarbaraCat
> I started taking omega-3 a week ago, to begin with i felt a definit sense of calmness but that has turned to a feeling of axiety in my chest (very scary) which seems to tally with some of the other reports. The reason i gave it a try is because i have been suffering from chronic fatigue for the last year and when i read about the possible benefits as in improved immune system i thought why not. I have had numerous tests which all show i am perfectly fit & healthy my question to these results is always the same; why do i feel terrible all of the time. The tests continue, any suggestions?
Posted by T Ejector on October 6, 2003, at 13:42:56
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ????? » T Ejector, posted by BarbaraCat on October 6, 2003, at 13:35:26
The company is Holland & Barrett, EPA fish oil concentrate 1000 mg, i have been taking the recomended 3 capsules per day.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 6, 2003, at 18:15:33
In reply to Re: Omega 3 side effect ?????, posted by T Ejector on October 6, 2003, at 11:28:44
> I started taking omega-3 a week ago...
Sorry if it's confusing here, but I'd like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/266076.html
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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