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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 20:33:12
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by ace on November 11, 2003, at 20:12:40
> > Hello all and I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read my babble. I feel like I am an anomaly. I have taken almost every medicine mentioned on here and many, many combinations but still cannot let this thing, or my mind will not let this thing go from my consciousness?
> >
> > It's feels like the pain when you first get your heart broken. You wake up with that pain you take it to work; everywhere you go it's there with you. Eventually it reduces its strength and you wake up one morning and think 'wow I didn't even think of that' ? Now that sort of pain has a name to it, a broken heart or dream etc. My pain feels the same but I have no heartbreak? Although I have had great difficulty in relationships. This 'X' thing that my mind seems to grab on to or needs to, consumes my consciousness and the best I can do is distract myself from myself. As soon as there is no greater thing to displace this ‘X thing’ I am back to the "X prison". Like a dog chained to a tree, I cannot get away?
> >
> > If consciousness is like a PC desktop then my consciousness is covered with icons that are meaningless, take up space and make me anxious? I need to reboot my brain but every morning X is there again? As a result of not being able to get away from this I get more anxious/depressed etc. Currently I am trying Wellbutrin XL 150 and Klonopin as needed.
> >
> > I know this is an anxiety related issue as it initially occurred after over-thinking going forward with a relationship (almost 20 yrs ago) Initially I was so relieved when a pdoc told me there was a medicine for this mild anxiety/depression (possible ADHD)problem. He Rxed Wellbutrin IM and 12 years ago when it came out Wellbutrin seemed to work great. I was almost immediately relieved and soon after the X thing in my head just wasn't something my mind wanted to go to? I only took Wellbutrin for 4 months and I was pretty much fine for 3-4 years.
> >
> > After college and working a few years I started to feel like life was passing me by and began to get anxious which led my mind to becoming consumed again. Terrified of this I went back on Wellbutrin but did not get the same relief.
> >
> > I quit work because I wanted to try and get to the bottom of this instead of having to rise to the occasion every morning which is what I have had to do over the past 9 years. I am exhausted and now isolating myself? Does this resonate with anyone else?
> >
>
> Can you please explain this X in greater detail? You say it is a feeling- is there a thought which accompanies it? Sounds like an OCD variant.
>
> Ace.
Thnaks for responding Ace. I have been Dxed with ocd a few yrs back and was given luvox but I cannot remember how it didn't work. Hmmm X is this place that my mind goes to? Like i am afraid of feeling and that maybe what X is but I cannot really describe it. Maybe i am afriad too? I am not aware of any thoughts that accompany X other than it's there when i am conscious. Thoughts that may accompnay it are "oh shit here it is again and I cannot get out? It feeds itself. I have met with some top CBT people and the last thing i want to do is think i just want to get away? X is the feeling of fear!
Posted by ace on November 11, 2003, at 20:45:17
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 20:33:12
> >
> > Can you please explain this X in greater detail? You say it is a feeling- is there a thought which accompanies it? Sounds like an OCD variant.
> >
> > Ace.
> Thnaks for responding Ace. I have been Dxed with ocd a few yrs back and was given luvox but I cannot remember how it didn't work. Hmmm X is this place that my mind goes to? Like i am afraid of feeling and that maybe what X is but I cannot really describe it. Maybe i am afriad too? I am not aware of any thoughts that accompany X other than it's there when i am conscious. Thoughts that may accompnay it are "oh shit here it is again and I cannot get out? It feeds itself. I have met with some top CBT people and the last thing i want to do is think i just want to get away? X is the feeling of fear!This X sounds like some sort of infinite pain- like no matter what you do it is there, right?
You try to accept it, it is still there, right?
You try to fight, it is still there, right?
OK, X wouldn't mean much, but the emotional feeling of fear that accompanies it is what really bothers you. If there was no pain attached to it, it would leave you.
This I believe is strongly OCD in nature- it is more obsessive 'feeling' than a thought.
This feeling causes you suffering and is recurring.I believe the best and most sensible route towards resolution of this problem is medication therapy.
In other words I believe X is nothing more than abnormal neurotransmition mannifesting itself as this painful feeling and foggy thought.Have you tried these drugs?...
1. Clomipramine (Anafranil)
2. Olanzapine (Zyprexa)
3. Risperidone (Risperidal)
4. MAOIs
5. Tramadol6. Clonidine
These and many, many more could work for you. If you have tried any let me know for how long/and at what dose.Lets fix this problem...no need to suffer.
Ace.
Posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 21:09:06
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by ace on November 11, 2003, at 20:45:17
>
> > >
> > > Can you please explain this X in greater detail? You say it is a feeling- is there a thought which accompanies it? Sounds like an OCD variant.
> > >
> > > Ace.
>
>
> > Thnaks for responding Ace. I have been Dxed with ocd a few yrs back and was given luvox but I cannot remember how it didn't work. Hmmm X is this place that my mind goes to? Like i am afraid of feeling and that maybe what X is but I cannot really describe it. Maybe i am afriad too? I am not aware of any thoughts that accompany X other than it's there when i am conscious. Thoughts that may accompnay it are "oh shit here it is again and I cannot get out? It feeds itself. I have met with some top CBT people and the last thing i want to do is think i just want to get away? X is the feeling of fear!
>
> This X sounds like some sort of infinite pain- like no matter what you do it is there, right?
>
> You try to accept it, it is still there, right?
>
> You try to fight, it is still there, right?
>
> OK, X wouldn't mean much, but the emotional feeling of fear that accompanies it is what really bothers you. If there was no pain attached to it, it would leave you.
>
> This I believe is strongly OCD in nature- it is more obsessive 'feeling' than a thought.
> This feeling causes you suffering and is recurring.
>
> I believe the best and most sensible route towards resolution of this problem is medication therapy.
> In other words I believe X is nothing more than abnormal neurotransmition mannifesting itself as this painful feeling and foggy thought.
>
> Have you tried these drugs?...
>
> 1. Clomipramine (Anafranil)
>
> 2. Olanzapine (Zyprexa)
>
> 3. Risperidone (Risperidal)
>
> 4. MAOIs
>
>
> 5. Tramadol
>
> 6. Clonidine
>
>
> These and many, many more could work for you. If you have tried any let me know for how long/and at what dose.
>
> Lets fix this problem...no need to suffer.
>
> Ace.
>
>
> Thanks again. I have tried all of those meds and in combo except Tramadol.
I remember Clomipramine. I was taking it with Lamictal at a relavtively low dose. i get more afraid when my feelings are changed by a med without me doing anything. The Clomipramine/lamictal made me feel better mood wise but my body and face was so tight! I had horrible constipation as well. I couldn't keep up feeling good so we changed up to, cant rememberZyprexa and Risperdal I cannot rememeber what the result was other than i was on low doses again and wasn't liking tolerating them. Funny feeling or too sedating. Not feeling like me.
Every now and again when i get into a very distracting/involved project i would get clarity of mind plus my appetite would come back (current status)
I did take MAOIs but again I cannot remember other than something wasn't working right? It's all in my head and now i resigned to try one last time to reduce as many factors in the equation as possible. Has not been a good idea. thanks for your help but I just don't know the results of those meds. I will have ask my docs? I just want out!
S
Posted by ace on November 11, 2003, at 21:36:02
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 21:09:06
> >
> > > >
> > > > Can you please explain this X in greater detail? You say it is a feeling- is there a thought which accompanies it? Sounds like an OCD variant.
> > > >
> > > > Ace.
> >
> >
> > > Thnaks for responding Ace. I have been Dxed with ocd a few yrs back and was given luvox but I cannot remember how it didn't work. Hmmm X is this place that my mind goes to? Like i am afraid of feeling and that maybe what X is but I cannot really describe it. Maybe i am afriad too? I am not aware of any thoughts that accompany X other than it's there when i am conscious. Thoughts that may accompnay it are "oh shit here it is again and I cannot get out? It feeds itself. I have met with some top CBT people and the last thing i want to do is think i just want to get away? X is the feeling of fear!
> >
> > This X sounds like some sort of infinite pain- like no matter what you do it is there, right?
> >
> > You try to accept it, it is still there, right?
> >
> > You try to fight, it is still there, right?
> >
> > OK, X wouldn't mean much, but the emotional feeling of fear that accompanies it is what really bothers you. If there was no pain attached to it, it would leave you.
> >
> > This I believe is strongly OCD in nature- it is more obsessive 'feeling' than a thought.
> > This feeling causes you suffering and is recurring.
> >
> > I believe the best and most sensible route towards resolution of this problem is medication therapy.
> > In other words I believe X is nothing more than abnormal neurotransmition mannifesting itself as this painful feeling and foggy thought.
> >
> > Have you tried these drugs?...
> >
> > 1. Clomipramine (Anafranil)
> >
> > 2. Olanzapine (Zyprexa)
> >
> > 3. Risperidone (Risperidal)
> >
> > 4. MAOIs
> >
> >
> > 5. Tramadol
> >
> > 6. Clonidine
> >
> >
> > These and many, many more could work for you. If you have tried any let me know for how long/and at what dose.
> >
> > Lets fix this problem...no need to suffer.
> >
> > Ace.
> >
> >
> > Thanks again. I have tried all of those meds and in combo except Tramadol.
> I remember Clomipramine. I was taking it with Lamictal at a relavtively low dose. i get more afraid when my feelings are changed by a med without me doing anything. The Clomipramine/lamictal made me feel better mood wise but my body and face was so tight! I had horrible constipation as well. I couldn't keep up feeling good so we changed up to, cant remember
>
> Zyprexa and Risperdal I cannot rememeber what the result was other than i was on low doses again and wasn't liking tolerating them. Funny feeling or too sedating. Not feeling like me.
>
> Every now and again when i get into a very distracting/involved project i would get clarity of mind plus my appetite would come back (current status)
>
> I did take MAOIs but again I cannot remember other than something wasn't working right? It's all in my head and now i resigned to try one last time to reduce as many factors in the equation as possible. Has not been a good idea. thanks for your help but I just don't know the results of those meds. I will have ask my docs? I just want out!
> S
>
>
> Have you tried Trazadone? What were the results off Clonidine?What about Pindolol- tried it?
Lithium?
Psychostimulants?
Seroquel?
Navane?
Amisulpride?
Remeron?
Aurorix?
Have you tried both high and low end dose off the drug I mention? Sometimes high dose makes OCD worse but low dose kills it.
Posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 23:01:44
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 21:09:06
Stavros,
If you would just like to talk and exchange some ideas about this pain of heart. Let me know.
You seem like a sensitive being, the world is hard place for such ones. Consider every possiblity okay, before wanting out.
femliteIt's all in my head and now i resigned to try one last time to reduce as many factors in the equation as possible. Has not been a good idea. thanks for your help but I just don't know the results of those meds. I will have ask my docs? I just want out!
> S
Posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:14:18
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 23:01:44
yes i do hurt and i don't know where to go even though i have a great support system, thanks talk where?
Posted by stacia on November 11, 2003, at 23:30:16
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:14:18
I feel like I'm reading my own journals. Sometimes I just want to escape my thoughts. I feel like I'm living this horrible life entirely in my head and I do it so I can avoid real life. At any rate, what you wrote struck a chord with me. I know one day, somehow, we'll be able to "be" without without the constant pains and fears.
S
Posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:38:40
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by stacia on November 11, 2003, at 23:30:16
Hey it'scomforting to know that I am not the only person in the world that suffers like this. My heart breaks for you. I watch TV to try and drown out myself and on some meds it works for a few days or sometimes just moments. I am sure you have loads going for you and I do as well but I cannot get going to experience it. Does everything feel like work to you? Have you had any success on meds?
Posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 23:57:20
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:14:18
Im glad to hear of your support system. Is it family or friends, or both?
If we want to talk about other things besides meds, probably the social board would be a good place.
I cant promise answers but I can share my own experience. Sometimes it helps to hear a new perspective.
femlite
> yes i do hurt and i don't know where to go even though i have a great support system, thanks talk where?
>
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:05:34
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 11, 2003, at 23:57:20
> Do you respond at the bottom of the post or the top? I have both wonderful Family and friends. I come from a solid Christian background and that is the only place that i feel will get me out of myself. It's too bad they dont have chat rooms here. There is fantastic chat room with real supportive people it called http://www.walkers.org/ I used to help and get help from others there. I would love to hear your trials and tribulations
s
>
>
> Im glad to hear of your support system. Is it family or friends, or both?
> If we want to talk about other things besides meds, probably the social board would be a good place.
> I cant promise answers but I can share my own experience. Sometimes it helps to hear a new perspective.
> femlite
>
>
> > yes i do hurt and i don't know where to go even though i have a great support system, thanks talk where?
> >
>
>
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:06:08
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:14:18
Hi Stavros,
Im going to bed now. (its 1 am where I live)
I will look for you in the morning.
If your there, we can talk and share some thoughts.
You are in my thoughts
Can you sleep? Do you have something to help you sleep? Regular hours (which I dont always keep) seem to help with my stability, if not the pain in my heart.
best
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:12:59
In reply to Wanna talk on social? » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:06:08
Actually i am having trouble sleeping tonight mostly because I had an hour of normal self earlier this evening and then it was taken from me. I do no have regular hrs as i am inbetween things right now. Doesn't help thing but I will be fine. I have Ambien and all the others but i cannot wait to see my pdoc on fri. I hope you sleep well and thanks for your love and concern. feeling are mutual. God bless
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:13:22
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:05:34
I respond at the top. It seems easier on the reader to not have to reread the whole post to get to the answer. But Im flexible. Would you rather talk at the chat room you mentioned? Id have to get registered eh? I may not have enough brain power to do that to night. Are you okay? Is it late where you live. Do you usually stay up late? Are you up because your hurting, frustrated?
Im glad of your backround. My faith has pulled me through many a dark night.> > Do you respond at the bottom of the post or the top? I have both wonderful Family and friends. I come from a solid Christian background and that is the only place that i feel will get me out of myself. It's too bad they dont have chat rooms here. There is fantastic chat room with real supportive people it called http://www.walkers.org/ I used to help and get help from others there. I would love to hear your trials and tribulations
>
> s
> >
> >
> > Im glad to hear of your support system. Is it family or friends, or both?
> > If we want to talk about other things besides meds, probably the social board would be a good place.
> > I cant promise answers but I can share my own experience. Sometimes it helps to hear a new perspective.
> > femlite
> >
> >
> > > yes i do hurt and i don't know where to go even though i have a great support system, thanks talk where?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:13:22
Thanks i will be OK for tonight but you should check out that site it 12:15 here so i understand that you need to go but so seet of you to offer. I know other i that chat room too. I look forward to offering stories of my survival over the coming weeks I hope you can sleep well
sg
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:19:15
In reply to Re: Wanna talk on social?, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:12:59
Is your pdoc relationship good?
Are you worried about your appointment?
i will pray it goes well.
I understand your disapointment in meds. They are limited.
I will look for you tomorrow.
Try to get some shut eye okay? Sleeping is easier on a weary heart than reality, eh?
femlite
> Actually i am having trouble sleeping tonight mostly because I had an hour of normal self earlier this evening and then it was taken from me. I do no have regular hrs as i am inbetween things right now. Doesn't help thing but I will be fine. I have Ambien and all the others but i cannot wait to see my pdoc on fri. I hope you sleep well and thanks for your love and concern. feeling are mutual. God bless
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:21:41
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
Posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:25:48
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
If you ever wanna talk sometime...I'm here. I can't offer any solutions, but I can listen (or rather read ;) ) My education/insomnia (bio-chem/clin psych) has given me a lot of information that may or may not be useful, but I'm often told that I sound condescending when I offer too much technical information. I guess that's why I'm afraid to post sometimes. I hope that everyone sleeps well. Good luck to all.
S
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:27:04
In reply to Is your screenname the same at the chat room? (nm) » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:21:41
no it atypical are you on now?
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:34:31
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:25:48
Thanks Stacia, I have a pharma background as well and also can get caught up in my shorts. Sometimes late at night is the only time i can think or it's the deepest darkness ever I look forward to talking in the future
sg
Posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:37:06
In reply to Re: Is your screenname the same at the chat room?, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:27:04
If you don't mind my asking, where is there a chat room?
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:43:08
In reply to Re: Is your screenname the same at the chat room?, posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:37:06
this is the address I am on right now under alias of atypical. check it out when you have time
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 12, 2003, at 12:25:31
In reply to I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 19:18:10
This is ME, right NOW. I know /exactly/ how you feel! You want to escape, just praying that one minute you'll snap out of it. It's a scary feeling. I can't concentrate, feel numb in the brain ... :(
Adam
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 12:35:33
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Adam Donahue on November 12, 2003, at 12:25:31
Sorry you feel this way too. I am sitting at home under the covers just trying to breath as I wait to see my doc in a few days. hang in there
Posted by Darby on November 12, 2003, at 18:17:28
In reply to I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 19:18:10
That's the term I'd use to describe this state of mind. I've dealt with this since my adolescence and it can become a tormenting thing.
The best way to describe it is as a kind of involutional mind trap in which my attention is rivetted to my "self" thinking about my own mind thinking in this immediate moment. It is literally just me (my "self")and the existential moment caught together. Terror and panic creep in when I realize I could be trapped in this self-absorbed "thought moment" forever, unable to distract myself from it ever again, unable to focus my attention to the external world. Of course, eventually my attention is taken elsewhere and I'm no longer obsessively self-aware. But I'm forever wary of "it" coming back into my everyday life, worried from moment to moment that it will never leave me and will always be hanging over me, ready to trap me back into my own head.
It seems to be a kind of attentional glitch in the brain, perhaps involving the temporal lobe and my perception of time passing from second to second. Usually a person's attentional apparatus shifts freely as we live our lives and experience the world. Voluntary attention can be harnessed to tasks that don't grab our interest. In this painful situation, it's as if my attentional apparatus is not under my control and I can't shed that tormenting sense of self-awareness or can't ever be destracted from myself. There's almost a taunting quality to its presence, a sense that I'm always going to have to fight it off.
A good analogy would be a person having to deal with tinnitis. There is the horrible, "caged animal" fear that one can never escape the high-pitched sound, no matter where you go and what you do. Or, like the unpredictable intrusiveness of auditory hallucinations a schizophrenic person experiences, always there and out of one's control.
It could be epilepsy-related and there definitely seems to be an obsessional component. It breeds depression, severe panic, chronic anxiety with traumatic stress reaction and a dreary sense of dissociation.
Of all the major meds I've tried, the most effective has been a combination of an SSRI(Prozac) with the anti-convulsant (Gabitril). It's been incredibly helpful for all of my symptoms.
Hope this helps you.
Darby
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 18:28:03
In reply to Attentional/Temporal Trapping, posted by Darby on November 12, 2003, at 18:17:28
Darby, Amazing that you can describe the same thing. I have tried all the ssri but had not heard of the other med.you mentioned. Thank you from sharing and I am so happy that you are able to manage this and go on with your life. As far as I know my mind will eternally be on how to get away from this prison or in my psychologist office (physically there or not, trying to make sense of this) I plead with God to let me go and go on with my life but i am just so stuck! i will ask my pdoc this week about Gab . . .
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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