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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by freedom2001 on December 2, 2003, at 5:02:22
A person posted:
My parents said after I had spinal menengitis at age 3 (almost died, it was very bad, the bacterial type Influenza Type B, I believe).., that I started to exhibit OCD symptoms.. So I'm wondering if that's why I developed OCD... never had strep throat..
Comments pls.
Posted by john b stevens on December 2, 2003, at 8:05:13
In reply to BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by freedom2001 on December 2, 2003, at 5:02:22
Well, influenza is a virus. The pediatric ocd i've heard of is only associated with a bacteria, and a specific bacteria, namely, streptococcus. You sure you never got strep throat. Don't we all get strep throat at one time? This site was interesting:
Posted by noa on December 5, 2003, at 10:19:54
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by john b stevens on December 2, 2003, at 8:05:13
Who knows. Remember Awakenings? Dr. Oliver Sachs found a correlation between catatonia and childhood "sleeping sickness", which I think was a type of influenza, if I'm remembering correctly.
It makes sense to me that it is possible that severe infections in the brain can affect certain brain functions. Look, meningitis in infants can sometimes cause hearing loss, for instance.
Maybe you could write a letter to Dr. Sachs and see if he can point you in the direction of some research or a specialist who can help you figure this out?
Posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 11:42:48
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by noa on December 5, 2003, at 10:19:54
> Who knows. Remember Awakenings? Dr. Oliver Sachs found a correlation between catatonia and childhood "sleeping sickness", which I think was a type of influenza, if I'm remembering correctly.
>
> It makes sense to me that it is possible that severe infections in the brain can affect certain brain functions. Look, meningitis in infants can sometimes cause hearing loss, for instance.
>
> Maybe you could write a letter to Dr. Sachs and see if he can point you in the direction of some research or a specialist who can help you figure this out?Who is Dr. Sachs? How to get in touch with him? Does he have a website?
I remembered that the last time I had a major OCD flare up, I felt something move inside my left brain, making me feel itchy. It's like a 'worm' inside. Is there any connection and am I missing something here???!!
I have 2 pet cats at home. I read that cat parasites can cause schizophrenia....
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2003, at 12:29:36
In reply to BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by freedom2001 on December 2, 2003, at 5:02:22
> A person posted:
> My parents said after I had spinal menengitis at age 3 (almost died, it was very bad, the bacterial type Influenza Type B, I believe).., that I started to exhibit OCD symptoms.. So I'm wondering if that's why I developed OCD... never had strep throat..
>
>
> Comments pls.Influenza is a virus. The problem is viruses (actually virii is the correct plural) are not generally responsive to medical intervention. Common childhood viruses like chicken pox are permanent residents in our body....shingles in old age is the reappearance of an infection that is decades old. There are a number of candidate viruses which may be associated with mental illness. The common cold or flu may trigger schizophrenia in individuals exposed in the womb. Borna virus may cause mood disorders. Coxsackie virus may cause depression and chronic fatigue, as may Epstein-Barr (mononucleosis). And on and on.
To make it all even more difficult, we know that many people are exposed to these viruses, but don't develop psychiatric symptoms.
Some antivirals, such as amantadine, have limited success in some individuals, but what do we do about all the others?
Then you've got infective agents like Toxoplasma gondii, the little critter that cats can give people via their feces.
Or the spirochete that causes Lyme disease.
Then there are organisms called the mycoplasmae.
It might be liking trying to find needles in a haystack.
I've been following the topic for years now, but it's still more theory than fact.
Lar
Posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 12:39:02
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » freedom2001, posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2003, at 12:29:36
> > A person posted:
> > My parents said after I had spinal menengitis at age 3 (almost died, it was very bad, the bacterial type Influenza Type B, I believe).., that I started to exhibit OCD symptoms.. So I'm wondering if that's why I developed OCD... never had strep throat..
> >
> >
> > Comments pls.
>
> Influenza is a virus. The problem is viruses (actually virii is the correct plural) are not generally responsive to medical intervention. Common childhood viruses like chicken pox are permanent residents in our body....shingles in old age is the reappearance of an infection that is decades old. There are a number of candidate viruses which may be associated with mental illness. The common cold or flu may trigger schizophrenia in individuals exposed in the womb. Borna virus may cause mood disorders. Coxsackie virus may cause depression and chronic fatigue, as may Epstein-Barr (mononucleosis). And on and on.
>
> To make it all even more difficult, we know that many people are exposed to these viruses, but don't develop psychiatric symptoms.
>
> Some antivirals, such as amantadine, have limited success in some individuals, but what do we do about all the others?
>
> Then you've got infective agents like Toxoplasma gondii, the little critter that cats can give people via their feces.
>
> Or the spirochete that causes Lyme disease.
>
> Then there are organisms called the mycoplasmae.
>
> It might be liking trying to find needles in a haystack.
>
> I've been following the topic for years now, but it's still more theory than fact.
>
> Lar
>Larry, you mentioned
"Then you've got infective agents like Toxoplasma gondii, the little critter that cats can give people via their feces."I have 2 cats at home. Does normal floor cleaning liquids kill the bacteria toxoplasma?
What about those liquids with the anti-bacteria triclosan? Do they work against toxoplasma?
Posted by noa on December 7, 2003, at 14:03:24
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » Larry Hoover, posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 12:39:02
This is totally an area I have little knowledge of, but my impression is that the risk from such infections is really to *developing* brains, as is in *infants* and young *children*.
The thought that you felt something move in your brain reminds me of the kinds of intrusive OCD thoughts a friend of mine gets from his OCD. Is this a possibility?
Posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 15:27:04
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » noa, posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 11:42:48
> I have 2 pet cats at home. I read that cat parasites can cause schizophrenia....
>The only ones that get this are the ones with immune
systems in total shutdown or the very young. AIDS patents and it can be passed from mom to the unborn but mom does not get it. If fact, till AIDS we did not hear of it too much. So if you are not
suffering from a deadly illness in N stage you will not have to worry. In any case, the cat box is where it comes from and is not passed through day to day contact with cats. Wear gloves when cleaning the cat box. If you had it, you would not be able to post to this board, amoung most other things. Infection with it is HORRABLE, and N stage AIDS. AIDS patients in western countries don't get it any more.It was sevral things like TPM, Karposi's, cryptosporidiosis, Cryptoccal Meningitis, and
Pneumocystis Carinii Pneumonia; infections
that are almost never seen plus the sudden
dramatic uptick in Pentamidine use (the only treatment at the time for PCP, only made by the gov, as few needed it prior to AIDS) in the 80's that clued the CDC and NY Dept of health to the first understaning of the nature of AIDS. These are all horrible infections, end stage AIDS, and often infect neurology. Again, we do not see them in western countries now.
Posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 15:37:48
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » freedom2001, posted by noa on December 7, 2003, at 14:03:24
> This is totally an area I have little knowledge of, but my impression is that the risk from such infections is really to *developing* brains, as is in *infants* and young *children*.
>
> The thought that you felt something move in your brain reminds me of the kinds of intrusive OCD thoughts a friend of mine gets from his OCD. Is this a possibility?
>
>No, I'm quite sure it's an 'organism' that is moving inside my brain. Lately, it seems to have died off or is dormant. But others may take its place. My pillow and bedsheets are dirty. Maybe they are the origin of those organisms. I simply dunno.
Gives me the creeps actually. Like 'aliens' inside my brain.
Posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 15:38:11
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 15:27:04
Opps, I was reviewing the info on toxo as I have not known anyone with it in a decade, & I was a little off:
The toxo parasite is very common in cat feces, raw meat, raw vegetables, and the soil. It can get into your body when you breathe in dust.Up to 50% of the population is infected with toxo. A healthy immune system will keep toxo from causing any disease. It does not seem to spread from person to person.
The most common illness caused by toxo is an infection of the brain (encephalitis).Toxo can also infect other parts of the body. Toxo can lead to coma and death. The risk of toxo is highest when your T-cell (CD4+) counts are below 100.
<end quote>
So it follows the SOP for a parasite life cycle
& most hosts are carriers but not effected. So, it is not to sole cause of OCD, as OCT does not have an insidence of 50%.
Posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 15:43:15
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 15:27:04
> > I have 2 pet cats at home. I read that cat parasites can cause schizophrenia....
> >
>
> The only ones that get this are the ones with immune
> systems in total shutdown or the very young. AIDS patents and it can be passed from mom to the unborn but mom does not get it. If fact, till AIDS we did not hear of it too much. So if you are not
> suffering from a deadly illness in N stage you will not have to worry. In any case, the cat box is where it comes from and is not passed through day to day contact with cats. Wear gloves when cleaning the cat box. If you had it, you would not be able to post to this board, amoung most other things. Infection with it is HORRABLE, and N stage AIDS. AIDS patients in western countries don't get it any more.
>
> It was sevral things like TPM, Karposi's, cryptosporidiosis, Cryptoccal Meningitis, and
> Pneumocystis Carinii Pneumonia; infections
> that are almost never seen plus the sudden
> dramatic uptick in Pentamidine use (the only treatment at the time for PCP, only made by the gov, as few needed it prior to AIDS) in the 80's that clued the CDC and NY Dept of health to the first understaning of the nature of AIDS. These are all horrible infections, end stage AIDS, and often infect neurology. Again, we do not see them in western countries now.
>
>
Why aren't these infections seen in western countries now?Talking about Aids. Reminds me of an article I read on the internet.
In a particular small country of Africa, the ratio of aids patient to the general population is very low compared to those of other african countries. They found out that the citizens have a high intake of selenium.
Other sources also quoted vitamin C, zinc and selenium suppressing Aids or slowing down its progression or even causing the HIV virus to drop to undetectable levels.
What do you guys think?
Do large doses of vitamin A, C, bioflavoids, E, Selenium and Zinc help in suppressing aids?Just curious.
Posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 15:46:54
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 15:38:11
> Opps, I was reviewing the info on toxo as I have not known anyone with it in a decade, & I was a little off:
>
> The toxo parasite is very common in cat feces, raw meat, raw vegetables, and the soil. It can get into your body when you breathe in dust.Up to 50% of the population is infected with toxo. A healthy immune system will keep toxo from causing any disease. It does not seem to spread from person to person.
>
> The most common illness caused by toxo is an infection of the brain (encephalitis).Toxo can also infect other parts of the body. Toxo can lead to coma and death. The risk of toxo is highest when your T-cell (CD4+) counts are below 100.
>
> <end quote>
>
> So it follows the SOP for a parasite life cycle
> & most hosts are carriers but not effected. So, it is not to sole cause of OCD, as OCT does not have an insidence of 50%.So you mean parasites MAY be one of the causes of OCD?
Also, if one is infected with toxo via cat faeces, do large doses of vitamin C and zinc help in killing off the scum bag?
Posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 18:01:29
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » stjames, posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 15:46:54
>
> So you mean parasites MAY be one of the causes of OCD?
>
> Also, if one is infected with toxo via cat faeces, do large doses of vitamin C and zinc help in killing off the scum bag?
I don't think so. Toxo does not cause mental illness, it causes large scale death of neurology.
As I said, 50% of us have been exposed to toxo,
the rates of OCD are an order of magnitude lower.
I don't see a causal relationship here and I have not seen an increase of OCD in people with active toxo.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2003, at 18:10:42
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » Larry Hoover, posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 12:39:02
> I have 2 cats at home. Does normal floor cleaning liquids kill the bacteria toxoplasma?
It's a protozoan, not a bacterium, but yes. Soap and water is preventative against infection. Cats only shed the infective cells when they themselves are acutely infected, so it's not like a long term risk.
> What about those liquids with the anti-bacteria triclosan? Do they work against toxoplasma?
Any detergent or soap is fine.
In general terms, only newly pregnant (first trimester) women and those with compromised immune systems (e.g. AIDS) must be particularly concerned about toxoplasma.....roughly one third of Americans have had it already. If that includes you, you probably thought you had the flu.
Here's a link to many links on toxoplasma:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/toxoplasmosis.html
Posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 19:34:50
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » stjames, posted by freedom2001 on December 7, 2003, at 15:43:15
> Why aren't these infections seen in western countries now?Sigh. Treatment !!!!!!
>
> Talking about Aids. Reminds me of an article I read on the internet.
>
> In a particular small country of Africa, the ratio of aids patient to the general population is very low compared to those of other african countries. They found out that the citizens have a high intake of selenium.
>
> Other sources also quoted vitamin C, zinc and selenium suppressing Aids or slowing down its progression or even causing the HIV virus to drop to undetectable levels.
>
> What do you guys think?
> Do large doses of vitamin A, C, bioflavoids, E, Selenium and Zinc help in suppressing aids?
>
> Just curious.
>I would disagree. AIDS is a STD, cultures that don't have a lot of AIDS are socially isolated.
There is no patient 0. The only reason AIDS started in the Gay community was because is was a rather closed community and patient 0 was gay.
The CDC, a decade ago, disproved sexual practice
as a factor in AIDS. Transmission is equal among gay and str8 sexual practices. AIDS is very hard to get, it requires exchange of body fluids.The best theory goes like this: AIDS jumped the species barrier from monkeys. We found the mutated simian AIDS in animal hosts some time ago, it was the missing link between simian AIDS (humans are immune) and the AIDS humans can get. Retroviruses
mutate freely. In some Asian countries they eat monkeys, including the brain. All original AIDS cases in NYC/SF were traced to patient 0, a Canadian international airline Steward, often on flights to Asia. He was quite sexually active & at that point
the gay communities in major cities were quite closed.Now it gets bad & you got me started ! This
is all covered in the movie and book "and the band played on" .
The CDC, NYC health & San Francis Health depth
epidemiologists and virologists quickly realized
this was a standard STD. Historically, it has been common to see STD's are moral judgments. However, it always proves that STD's do not discriminate.
IV drug users were getting AIDS so it was clear our blood supply was in danger. the CDC was unable to get the Red Cross to test to blood supply for Hep B, which was 60% predictive for AIDS. No one seemed to have the power to make the RC do anything, not even the FDA. Meanwhile The French and an American scientist,Dr.Gallo, were homing in on AIDS.
They both discovered it, but not till the Americans sued the French in international court, to prove who was first, delaying a test for years for AIDS. The Americans discovered AIDS via samples sent from the French and the French showed us how to keep it alive long enough to study !!!
Dr Gallo wanted a Nobel prize so he hamstrung the French.Meanwhile, we killed all the hemophiliacs, as they lack the blood clotting factor and receive this factor from the pooled blood product of thousands of peoples blood. Reagen said nothing & we allowed our homophobia to infect hemophiliacs and anyone receiving a transfusion. The government ignored the CDC and "the band played on". The RC would do nothing till there was a test for AIDS; that was tied up in court. they would not even test for Hep B, and now we have a large number of chronic hep B persons.
Their hands tied, the American researchers knew
someone had to have gotten AIDS via a transfusion.
They needed someone beyond reproach who had AIDS and someone in the health dept. who had balls and could violate
the doc/patient privacy issues and get some medical charts. They found their health official,
played my Lilly Tomlin in the movie. She discovered a rich lady who had AIDS do to an operation. The family was well known, gave much money to the city (SF, I think) and she was hetro.
She had no idea she had AIDS and once the case was made she stepped up to the plate and went public.Quite an act od courrage
She put a hetro face on AIDS and the blood supply was cleaned up.The Red Cross was sued, and found horrifically
at fault. The judge could not award damages as this would of put the RC out of business and we would then have no blood supply. Meanwhile, everyone I knew in LA and SF in the 90's was sick and is now dead. Doug, Chuck, Stephen, Gene, Francois, Carter and the list goes on and on. Genes death was horrific; toxo, PCP, meningitis and the other crypto infections are an inhuman way to die. All these guys were older than me, I came out as AIDS hit & they were infected prior to any knowledge of AIDS and safe sex.
Posted by freedom2001 on December 8, 2003, at 2:51:12
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls., posted by stjames on December 7, 2003, at 18:01:29
>
> >
> > So you mean parasites MAY be one of the causes of OCD?
> >
> > Also, if one is infected with toxo via cat faeces, do large doses of vitamin C and zinc help in killing off the scum bag?
>
>
> I don't think so. Toxo does not cause mental illness, it causes large scale death of neurology.
> As I said, 50% of us have been exposed to toxo,
> the rates of OCD are an order of magnitude lower.
> I don't see a causal relationship here and I have not seen an increase of OCD in people with active toxo.
>
>
Thanks for your reply. But you haven't replied on whether taking large doses of Vitamin C and zinc helps in killing off the toxo in our bodies.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2003, at 8:50:22
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » stjames, posted by freedom2001 on December 8, 2003, at 2:51:12
> Thanks for your reply. But you haven't replied on whether taking large doses of Vitamin C and zinc helps in killing off the toxo in our bodies.Those are anti-viral....ineffective in toxoplasmosis. There are drug treatments, but 99.9% (excluding special populations) or more of the population don't need any treatment whatsoever. They just get better.
Posted by stjames on December 8, 2003, at 17:59:20
In reply to Re: BACTERIA AND OCD. Comments pls. » stjames, posted by freedom2001 on December 8, 2003, at 2:51:12
> Thanks for your reply. But you haven't replied on whether taking large doses of Vitamin C and zinc helps in killing off the toxo in our bodies.
>
Yes, I did, sorry I thought you would infer.In a word, NO.
This is the end of the thread.
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