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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 13:33:52
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 12:44:02
> It's never safe to self-medicate. And even worse with any drug that comes in a capsule form, because the grains themselves are not an exact measurement individually...it's the total amount of grains that make up the weight of the capsule...some grains weigh more, some less. Just please, don't do the self-medication thing.
>
> Now for the good news. It really will get better. As I mentioned in previous posts, I went right off of 225 mg, no tapering. For others, tapering has had good results, but my dr. chose not to go that route. In hindsight, I wish that I would have at least taken the single 20 mg dose of Prozac to help with the withdrawal symptoms, but I did not.
>
> Go back to taking your prescribed dose and try to prepare yourself for going off of this drug. If you go cold turkey like I did, you're going to want to take a few days off of work. Try for Day 3, 4 & 5 because if you read all the posts on here about Effexor (and I have), Day 3, 4 & 5 seem to be the worst for those who quit cold turkey. Things seem to improve for most fairly rapidly after that. For myself, I noticed big improvements every day from Day 6 - 11.
>
> Now, on Day 18 I honestly do feel much better. Hang in there, don't self-medicate, ask your pdoc to work with you on getting off by providing the single 20 mg dose of Prozac for you to take as soon as the major withdrawal symptoms kick in and just know that this is going to take a little time, but it really will get better.
>
> Take Care!
> BlissBliss, thanks for your informative post. Fortunately for me, I get 2 weeks vacation-time over Christmas. Since I don't celebrate Christmas perhaps this would be a good time to detox.
Again, thank you for calming me down. :-)
-- jeeno
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 14:01:18
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 13:33:52
You are very welcome Jeeno!
There is no sugarcoating the withdrawal experience. It is hard, but you are so lucky that you will have some vacation time to deal with it. Try to be really good to yourself during that time...sleep as much as you can/want, eat well and eat what you want (this is not the time to worry about diet!), drink lots and lots of water and remember that no matter how weird or crappy you feel, it IS going to get better and there are lots of people (like me!) who will be happy to respond to your messages while you go through this process. You are not alone, and you will get through it. It is a little different for eveyone, but this board itself is proof that we all survive it ;-)
Take care and be well!
Bliss
Posted by John2222 on December 10, 2003, at 14:25:48
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 12:17:41
It's not very scientific to open the capsule and dump out say approx one half of the beads, but I've done it successfully to make up capsules of 1/2 of 37.5 which is about 19 mg.
I bought a big bag for $5 or $6 of the empty gel caps from the health food store to split them up. But you can just dump half out if you aren't as thifty as I was.
I stayed on 19 for several weeks when tapering off and it helped.
The 3rd day of none was the worst, but it got better. And going from 19 to 0 is better than going from 37.5 to zero.
*john*
> Does anyone know if it's safe to open the capsules and take out a few grains of medicine the way I did? Or is the pharmacist that pours the drugs smarter than I'm thinking s/he is?
>
> Impatient for my pdoc appt this Friday...
Posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 14:45:09
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by John2222 on December 10, 2003, at 14:25:48
> It's not very scientific to open the capsule and dump out say approx one half of the beads, but I've done it successfully to make up capsules of 1/2 of 37.5 which is about 19 mg.
>
> I bought a big bag for $5 or $6 of the empty gel caps from the health food store to split them up. But you can just dump half out if you aren't as thifty as I was.
>
> I stayed on 19 for several weeks when tapering off and it helped.
>
> The 3rd day of none was the worst, but it got better. And going from 19 to 0 is better than going from 37.5 to zero.
>
> *john*
> > Does anyone know if it's safe to open the capsules and take out a few grains of medicine the way I did? Or is the pharmacist that pours the drugs smarter than I'm thinking s/he is?
> >
> > Impatient for my pdoc appt this Friday...
>
>Thanks for your input, John.
I've been so anxious/obsessed about what may or may not happen to me when I go off Effexor that I'm starting to think perhaps I need to be on some kind of med, after all, when the Effexor is finally bye-bye. I'm going to speak w/my doctors about perhaps switching to something that has more understood effects on the fetus/breastfeeding babies. Ah, the joys of GAD...
Posted by jenneh on December 10, 2003, at 15:51:42
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 14:45:09
Yep, and the greatest thing about GAD is that no one (except medical professionals and people who have experienced it) understand how real it is. "Get over it", 'You'll be fine" HA!!
I tried to go off the effexor - I actually went cold turkey and had almost no side effects - which was super strange 'cause I had missed pills etc in the past and felt TERRIBLE...but anyways, I just started back on yesterday after over a month free because I was worrying about anything and everything again, the most irrational things...in fact, I would find myself lying in bed thinking up things to worry about. It was stupid and I knew it but I couldnt stop it. I decided that I could not live like that anymore and I went back on. I don't care how long I am on it at this point, because I can't - won't - go back to feeling the other way again.
I hate GAD!! Does it ever 'go away'?
Posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 16:08:36
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jenneh on December 10, 2003, at 15:51:42
> Yep, and the greatest thing about GAD is that no one (except medical professionals and people who have experienced it) understand how real it is. "Get over it", 'You'll be fine" HA!!
> I tried to go off the effexor - I actually went cold turkey and had almost no side effects - which was super strange 'cause I had missed pills etc in the past and felt TERRIBLE...but anyways, I just started back on yesterday after over a month free because I was worrying about anything and everything again, the most irrational things...in fact, I would find myself lying in bed thinking up things to worry about. It was stupid and I knew it but I couldnt stop it. I decided that I could not live like that anymore and I went back on. I don't care how long I am on it at this point, because I can't - won't - go back to feeling the other way again.
> I hate GAD!! Does it ever 'go away'?Jenneh,
I feel like I could have authored your post. Seriously! No one understands!
I find that my life is actually worse when I have nothing rational to focus my anxiety on, because then my brain comes up with the most ridiculous things to fixate on. The past year of my life would have been stressful even for people w/out GAD -- I moved to a new state, I had to take the California Bar exam, I had to find a new job, I became the sole breadwinner in my family b/c hubby started a PhD program -- and so my anxiety seemed "rational" to others (hubby, my mom, etc.). But now that things have settled down in my life (got a job and passed the bar, yay!) the worries are getting ridiculous again. It's like my brain is simply hard-wired to worry about SOMETHING, and so if there's nothing real to worry about it will find somethign anyway.
Sorry to get off topic, but thanks for letting me vent.
-- jeenobeano
Posted by John2222 on December 10, 2003, at 20:18:06
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 14:01:18
Hi, everyone is talking about HOW to handle tapering and withdrawal.
Question: What do you feel like AFTER you have finally gotten to zero?
After taking Effexor XR for about 1.5 years (mostly at 112.5 mg/day), I reduced finally down to zero about 2 weeks ago. I was feeling better and most of the depression had subsided. Plus I was ALWAYS tired while taking Effexor, slept a lot, but always woke up at 3am for some reason.
After the slow tapering though and stopping, I am having this high frequency squeel or noise in my head. This has gone one for 2 weeks now. Also sometimes dizzy when I move my head. It is like my equilibruim is off kilter. Plus nagging headache.
IS all this to be expected? Will the ringing/squeeling go away? When?
The day I stopped Effexor XR, I started with Wellbutrin 150 XL which my dr. said would not make me lethargic and emotionally-blunted. So far Wellbutrin hasn't, but I am experiencing these effects which I think are from Effexor.
Am I on the right track here from what you know? I understand that WB doesn't affect seratonin so wonder if it will really relieve depression (mild to moderate) or not.
Thanks for any/all advice! :)
*john*
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 20:41:30
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by John2222 on December 10, 2003, at 20:18:06
Life after Effexor is working out fine for me.
I've been off of it for 18 days and the ringing, squealing, brain shivering feelings have been reduced to almost nothing...steadily decreasing by almost half each day to the point that now I really don't have any noticable effects at all.
Going cold turkey was not easy, but I really do feel good. I'm on Remeron, 15 mg/day, and while the depression is still with me...since getting off of the Effexor I now feel able to actually work on doing something about that...on the Effexor, I didn't care about working through the depression, I was just irritable, agitated and a little hostile and doped up like I was wrapped in cotten balls the whole time.
Things seem to be looking up...it's the first time in over a year and a half that I've even felt optimism, so life after Effexor has started off good for me.
Bliss
Posted by Sooty on December 10, 2003, at 22:12:40
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Mandy D on December 3, 2003, at 16:44:00
So, has anyone out there NOT had bad withdrawals from Effexor?....I'm wondering if you have to have taken it for a long time to have the bad effects? I've been taking it for only about two months now and I forget to take it a couple times every week---I don't feel anything very weird. I just feel a little more hyped up (ADHD) without it. I'd like to hear a little bit more good news if there maybe is some? Maybe there just isn't that much good news about this drug, but I'm hoping for that. Thanks to everyone for their sharing on this board. ---Susan
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 22:25:34
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Sooty on December 10, 2003, at 22:12:40
I'm positive that there is "good news" about this drug. For some of the people I've spoken with are read about in other threads on this board, Effexor has worked very well.
Here's the catch though...you've posted to a thread titled "Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news". If you want to find people with positive results, you'll likely need to start a new thread, maybe something like "Effexor Success Stories Wanted".
For many people this drug does work very well, and even in this thread you'll find people who say that the drug worked great for them, but coming off of it was hard.
This thread isn't about Effexor not working, it's about people who've had problems with withdrawal effects...and no, not everyone HAS problems with withdrawal from this drug. I have a friend who was on it for a few years and she never experienced a single one of the withdrawal problems I had.
It's different for everyone. I for one would be interested in following any thread you start about hearing success stories about Effexor.
-Bliss
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 0:10:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 14:01:18
I didn't take Effexor long enough to get major withdrawal symptoms, but I did Paxil. I hate that drug with a passion. The best thing for Paxil withdrawal--for me anyway--is large doses of benzos. I'm sure no one's psychiatrist would approve of that, but oh well; they're not the ones having to endure the agony.
Posted by Roomy on December 11, 2003, at 6:47:47
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 20:41:30
Hi again, I posted here in the past. I was trying to stop my effexor on my own and failed miserably. I dont even have to explain. You all know. I went to a new doctor and got some help. He had me going one day on 75mg and the next day on 37.5. I went every other day like this for about 20 days. Then I just did the 37.5 every day for about 20 days. and now...any day now...I am supposed to take it every OTHER day until its gone. Has anyone heard of this method? So far...I have had ZERO withdrawl effects! Before when I tried it on my own I wanted to be admitted to a mental home. Any thoughts?
Posted by John2222 on December 11, 2003, at 8:49:38
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Roomy on December 11, 2003, at 6:47:47
That's similar to what I did and is what my dr. reccommended as well. Except that I was told after 2 weeks of every other day, then for 1 or 2 weeks take Effexor one day, skip 2 days and then one day. Then nothing.
I "improvised" on that approach by splitting 7 of the 37.5 XP capsules into two empty gel caps so I had fourteen 18.75 mg Effexor XR capsules. That REALLY helped me.
Also (for Susan), yes Effexor really helped me for the combination depression coupled with anxiety about everything as well. It really settled my brain into a steady state and re-balanced me. I never forgot to take it even once in one and half years, although if I even slept in some and took it an hour later than normal (7 am), I could tell.
*john*
> Hi again, I posted here in the past. I was trying to stop my effexor on my own and failed miserably. I dont even have to explain. You all know. I went to a new doctor and got some help. He had me going one day on 75mg and the next day on 37.5. I went every other day like this for about 20 days. Then I just did the 37.5 every day for about 20 days. and now...any day now...I am supposed to take it every OTHER day until its gone. Has anyone heard of this method? So far...I have had ZERO withdrawl effects! Before when I tried it on my own I wanted to be admitted to a mental home. Any thoughts?
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 12:39:04
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by John2222 on December 11, 2003, at 8:49:38
Hey Roomy :-)
Wonderful to hear that you are getting off of this medication with no withdrawals symptoms. That is incredibly good news and it would be really great if you could keep posting with some updates as you proceed for the benefit of anyone else who needs to stop taking Effexor.
If this is working for you already, don't "improvise", stick with the plan that you have...sort of an if it ain't broke don't fix it approach.
Also, I'm a bit of a zealot about warning people against self-medication (taking doses of things that have not been prescibed, splitting capsules, etc., although splitting tablets or caplets is OK if they have been scored for splitting by the manufacturer). I used to work in the medical field and was shocked by the number of people we admitted who were there because they made a mistakes when self-medicating. If your dr. prescribes 18.75mg, then your pharmacist will split the capsules at no charge to you. But let the pharm. split the capsules because they will do it by weight, not by eye-balling the amount or by counting the grains inside the capsules (the grains all weigh different amounts). I just would not take the chance of self-medicating when it comes to drugs that effect your mental state...it's not worth the risk and it's free to have your pharm. do it for you (at least in Canada & the US).
-Bliss
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 12:47:11
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 12:39:04
"Also, I'm a bit of a zealot about warning people against self-medication"
I self-medicate basically, and it works just fine. I see nothing wrong with doing it when you have the requisite knowledge.
"split the capsules because they will do it by
weight, not by eye-balling the amount or by counting the grains inside the capsules (the grains all weigh different amounts)."The easy solution is to crush all the grains and dissolve them in water (assuming the medication is soluble); then you can measure out an accurate dose.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 13:34:23
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - Life AFTER Effexor, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 12:47:11
It's the "requisite knowledge" that I worry about, not everyone has it. And I always found it very heartbreaking when people ended up in the Anxiety Disorders Unit I worked in because their meds were not working out the way they expected due to the self-medication. If you have the knowledge that's great, use it wisely! But for those who don't it's not something to be taken lightly.
"The easy solution is to crush all the grains and dissolve them in water (assuming the medication is soluble); then you can measure out an accurate dose." This is were that "requisite knowledge" becomes so important. It is water soluable, but the medicinal properties become unstable in water almost immediately and result in a mixture that can not be stored for any length of time because the medication becomes ineffective.
I respect everyone's ability to make their own choices. But for me, if I needed the electricity in my house re-wired, I'd go to an electrician I don't rip it all out and start from scratch myself. Ergo, if I need to reduce my meds or alter their dosage, I go to a pharmacist who has the tools I don't (like scales, etc.) to do it for me.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 14:47:07
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 10, 2003, at 22:25:34
Can withdrawl from Effexor be as bad as withdrawl from Paxil? My pdoc just started me on Effexor although I have not finished my wean from Paxil (which has been going on for a year now). Each step down on Paxil has been a crash. Am I to expect the same with Effexor? If so, I just won't continue with it.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 14:59:58
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » Blissful_Girl_NOT, posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 14:47:07
Hey jerseydevil :-)
Having had to go through withdrawal from Paxil at one point and more recently, Effexor, yes Effexor withdrawal can be just as bad as Paxil and in my case worse. But....there's always a but...that absolutely does not mean that will be the case for you.
Maybe it would be better to look at the pro's rather than the con's...what I mean is that for some people, Effexor works like magic and is completely worth the possibility of having a difficult withdrawal. Not everyone has withdrawal symptoms from Effexor, but they can rival Paxil's withdrawal problems when you do experience withdrawal problems.
I was on Effexor for over a year, it combatted my anxiety very well, but it actually worsened my depression so I had to stop taking. I've met a number of people who have had amazing success with this drug including some who no longer need it and have successfully gone off of it without any problems at all.
If you're going to give up on this med...it might be wiser to give up on it if it doesn't work, rather than give up on it because you "might" have problems withdrawing from it.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 15:06:58
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 14:59:58
Sound advice. Better sane and potentially sexually handicapped, and possibly having withdrawl problems in the future, than Depressed and still lacking the right cocktail today? I still have 7.5mg of Paxil to fight before I am free of that beast. But change can be good.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 15:06:58
OK...your response made me smile...whether you meant it to or not!
I'll be honest I did not have ANY negative sexual side effects with the Effexor...nothing like the dead zone I felt I was in with Paxil. It did take a little longer than usual acheiving an initial orgasm...but it didn't stop me from having a sex drive or from being able to enjoy that drive ;-)
But seriously...there have been times when my anxiety was so all consuming, and the depression so dark that I felt like I'd have willingly forgone ever having sex again just to feel well again. Fortunately, Effexor did not steal my sex drive...which being a woman at the peak of my sexuality, that would have just added to the anxiety and depression! I'm now learning that it is possible to be well without having to sacrifice all of the things that make being a part of this crazy existence worthwhile.
-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 16:01:03
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
Smiling is good. Thanks for the feedback. I have no desire to go through "the dead zone" again. Nor do I want to hide under the bullet proof sheets when my head is racing. But most of all, I cannot afford to have another Big Crash. I guess I will try the new cocktail and try to keep the new meds at low doses.
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 15:20:33
Paxil is poison. It makes you feel dopey, impotent and the withdrawal is horrendous. They really should take it off the market, IMO. One should try MAOIs or stimulants before Paxil is even considered.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 11, 2003, at 16:09:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
I agree. If I survive getting off of Paxil completely, I may initiate the class-action in New Jersey (there already is one in California). So it sounds like while withdrawl from Effexor may be bad, it is the lessor of two "evils". Although, if I have sexual side effects with Effexor, I'm weaning off it. I may be in my mid-life crisis years, but I like sex and think it is good for self-esteem issues.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 16:12:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:03:20
I'd have to agree...Paxil can be nasty stuff. The problem I had was that it really did not even begin to touch the anxiety problem that it was prescribed for...and in fact the complete loss of sex drive and being able to have orgasms made me even MORE anxious!
My sister takes it and actually likes it and says it works well for her but...again always with the buts...she has been trying for almost a year to be weaned off of it without success (she still is on a very small dose, but the minute that small dose is not taken the withdrawal symptoms kick up, she's ended up in hospital twice because of it).
It never ceases to amaze me how many of the drugs for treating anxiety, dpression, etc., are handed out by docs like candy without ever really discussing what your life is going to be like once you're on them...or god forbid...once you have to go off of them.
-Bliss
Posted by bsj on December 11, 2003, at 16:44:59
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 11, 2003, at 16:12:16
"It never ceases to amaze me how many of the drugs for treating anxiety, dpression, etc., are handed out by docs like candy without ever really discussing what your life is going to be like once you're on them...or god forbid...once you have to go off of them."
ADs are the modern laudanum: they're handed out for anything and everything. And if you try to give many of them up, you run into the same problem as laudanum. We don't know enough about the longterm effects of these drugs to use them so readily. I'm beginning to think that stimulants should be a first-line treatment for depression; amphetamine's been with us for 100+ years, and we know far more about it than any modern AD.
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