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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 283 to 307 of 1313. Go back in thread:
Posted by CrazyMe on December 12, 2003, at 7:13:49
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Jasamigo on December 12, 2003, at 2:31:38
Yes, saran wrap over the eyes and cotton in the ears - everything muffled, set away from you a small distance putting you inside a bubble.It's a true feeling of being out of touch.
Posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 12:03:49
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 14:45:09
> > It's not very scientific to open the capsule and dump out say approx one half of the beads, but I've done it successfully to make up capsules of 1/2 of 37.5 which is about 19 mg.
> >
> > I bought a big bag for $5 or $6 of the empty gel caps from the health food store to split them up. But you can just dump half out if you aren't as thifty as I was.
> >
> > I stayed on 19 for several weeks when tapering off and it helped.
> >
> > The 3rd day of none was the worst, but it got better. And going from 19 to 0 is better than going from 37.5 to zero.
> >
> > *john*
> > > Does anyone know if it's safe to open the capsules and take out a few grains of medicine the way I did? Or is the pharmacist that pours the drugs smarter than I'm thinking s/he is?
> > >
> > > Impatient for my pdoc appt this Friday...
> >
> >
>
>
Well, I finally got an appt with my new pdoc (since I just moved to this part of the country), and what he advised me has me a little worried. He told me that since my first attempt to get off this was so horrible, that taking out 5 granules a week *is* probably the only way I'll be able to get off this and still function.He also prescribed me Lexapro and said I should start taking that before starting the taper. I said I wanted to make a go of things unmedicated for a while, but he said that would probably be unwise.
Does anyone out there with more knowledge than me think this guy knows what he's talking about? Is it ok to take Lexapro while still on Effexor? Thanks in advance.
I haven't posted here much, but reading all these posts definitely makes me feel like I'm not alone in all this. Thanks to everyone.
-- jeeno
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 12, 2003, at 12:34:03
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 12:03:49
Hi :-)
Well, I've never been on Lexapro (I'd check out some of the threads about it on this board though to give you some insight), but my doc had me switch to Remeron at exactly the same time I stopped the Effexor. The Effexor withdrawals were still bad, but the Remeron at least didn't seem to make matters worse.
I just saw a new pdoc on Wednesday...during this bout of anxiety/depression/stress it has been my regular doc who prescribed the Effexor. Both my regular doc & my pdoc told me that the standard practice (in Canada at least) now is to prescribe a single dose of Prozac to any patient who is going off of Effexor. The Prozac is taken on Day 2 or 3 of withdrawal depending on how bad your symptoms are.
Both docs had just recently read an article (I'm trying to track it down) that showed that tapering and cold turkey withdrawal of Effexor produce the SAME results in people who are predisposed to having withdrawal problems from this med. In otherwords, neither method worked better than the other. My pdoc wryly commented that tapering just seemed to draw out the same withdrawal problems over a longer period of time.
Another thing my pdoc did was sit down with me and go over the (very long) list of AD's and anxiety meds I've been off and on over the past 15 years. The drugs have worked sometimes, but eventually they all either stop working for me, or become to difficult to stay on because of side effects. His point of doing this review was to say that maybe I need to look to something other than just medication to heal myself, so rather than up my Remeron, or add some new RX to the mix, he upped my visits with him. He looked me right in the eye and said "After 15 years of medication yoyo-ing we're going to try something new, we're going to talk about whats bothering you."
He's given me books to read and workbooks with excercises that I will need to do as "homework". I'm still on Remeron, and I have no idea if this "talk therapy" is going to help, but it is definitely not going to hurt. I have a long history of this type of illness in my family. I have no doubt in my mind that some of my problem is chemical imbalance...but I also no longer have any doubt that some of my problem is that I have not learned how to COPE with this illness. I've been chasing that magic pill that is going to "fix" everything for 15 years...and while I've found lots of bandaid pills, I've found no cures. I think I'll start looking inside myself for that.
Thanks for letting me rant...Jeeno I know that didn't answer your question...but think about this: If your instincts are making you question anything about the course of your treatment, listen to those instincts and ask questions, lots of questions and look for options...lots of options. Getting you off of Effexor should not be about finding you another AD (Lexapro) to go on.
-Bliss
Posted by jenneh on December 12, 2003, at 15:49:40
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 10, 2003, at 16:08:36
Hye there
Ok that is just weird = I just passed the bar too! In Canada) Anyways, I know what you're saying about people thinking its rational to feel this way considering our choice of careers. However, what they dont realize is that (at least for me) even with major things to focus on, I still gt fixated and obsessive about stupidity. Ack!
Posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 16:37:50
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jenneh on December 12, 2003, at 15:49:40
> Hye there
> Ok that is just weird = I just passed the bar too! In Canada) Anyways, I know what you're saying about people thinking its rational to feel this way considering our choice of careers. However, what they dont realize is that (at least for me) even with major things to focus on, I still gt fixated and obsessive about stupidity. Ack!
That's so wild that you're an attorney as well. I dont' know about you, but I met more people in my 3 years of law school who had GAD, OCD, and other anxiety problems than I've met in the entire rest of my life.Having said all of that, I've decided I want to live med-free for a little while. This Effexor w/d stuff is making the idea of trying a new drug pretty darn off-putting. :-P
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 12, 2003, at 17:06:36
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 12, 2003, at 12:34:03
Great post. I've been trying a combo of both. I go to weekly marriage counseling with my husband, plus my own individual sessions with my therapist. I expect the AD's that I'm on to prevent me from driving my car into a tree, or worse. But I'm not expecting them to make me happy. I'm a people pleaser and have a very difficult time knowing what *I* want to do.
Good luck!
KDi in TX
Posted by jenneh on December 12, 2003, at 17:48:28
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 16:37:50
Yep. There are certainly some real personalities in law school.. I have never met more people with type A personalities, in fact. So where do you live anwyways?
Posted by pala on December 13, 2003, at 16:28:19
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Jasamigo on December 12, 2003, at 2:31:38
Jennifer,You are absolutely right, because your eyes get strained so much during the withdrawal,
you can't read anything, this is all part of these deadly medications, we will
have to ask these Psychiatrists first to experience this and then prescribe to others, they just victimize us.But certainly your mental shocks (or zaps) will totally vanish after 3 or 4 months, mild dizziness will remain for some
more time, but all other symptoms will vanish too.If you have developed post nasal drip which I did, this takes good 6 to 7 months before you see
this subsiding, try not to loose temper during these withdrawal days as it can be nasty as mental
ups and down are pretty intense during this period.Start with mild exercise, don't breach excessively, as lack of co2 in the body may certainly cause
you panic and more dizziness, once you are normal after few months, you can
do intense exercise, which is exactly I am doing, you will feel awesome and your mind will not even
think of touching those horrible medications.I wish you good luck and certainly you will need somebody's help when you are going though this
withdrawal hell.Please, anybody who is experiencing withdrawal symptoms, I can offer some good suggestions
which makes things more manageable as I have gained good experience going through this personally.pala
Posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 12:39:07
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 12, 2003, at 12:03:49
its me Roomy again. I was the one going 75mg one day and then 37.5 the next for like 20 days and then just on 37.5 every day for 20days and NOW just this weekend I am supposed to skip and take it every other day. Well...I skipped saturdays dose and was fine but just write off Sunday! I was useless! 37.5 is sooooo freakin small of a dose and I only skipped ONE day!!! WHATS THE DEAL??? I so thought this was gonna work! Sunday I took my meds so today I am better but today I didnt so tomorrow will suck. I am tired of doctors and going back and going back and I KNOW that just dumping out half of the capsule and taking it is bad.....*heavy sigh*...anyway...the doctor said he wanted to put me on Wellbutrin during the weaning process but I, too, didnt want anything to do with any other drugs. Here is my question: everyother day until the drug is gone (I have about 15 pills left) that 30 days. Will I feel like this for thirty days? and what happens when the drug is gone? will I feel WORSE?
Posted by jeenobeano on December 15, 2003, at 14:11:42
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » jeenobeano, posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 12:39:07
> its me Roomy again. I was the one going 75mg one day and then 37.5 the next for like 20 days and then just on 37.5 every day for 20days and NOW just this weekend I am supposed to skip and take it every other day. Well...I skipped saturdays dose and was fine but just write off Sunday! I was useless! 37.5 is sooooo freakin small of a dose and I only skipped ONE day!!! WHATS THE DEAL??? I so thought this was gonna work! Sunday I took my meds so today I am better but today I didnt so tomorrow will suck. I am tired of doctors and going back and going back and I KNOW that just dumping out half of the capsule and taking it is bad.....*heavy sigh*...anyway...the doctor said he wanted to put me on Wellbutrin during the weaning process but I, too, didnt want anything to do with any other drugs. Here is my question: everyother day until the drug is gone (I have about 15 pills left) that 30 days. Will I feel like this for thirty days? and what happens when the drug is gone? will I feel WORSE?
Hi Roomy,
I'm not doing so well myself. With my doctor's assistance I've begun weaning myself off 75mg verrrrrrry slooooowwwly. With his approval I removed 2 measly granules from the 75mg capsule on Friday, and I've been doing the same every evening since then. Friday and Saturday I felt totally fine, no symptoms whatsoever. Last night I started feeling a bit jittery, and today I'm incredibly jittery. All this from 2 measly granules!!!!!!!!!!!!
That said, I'm feeling much better than when I was impetuous enough to remove TEN granules at a time. However, at this rate I'm going to be on this stuff for the rest of my life. If I start to feel better soon I'm going to try to remove more like 5-8 per week (less than the horrible 10 per week, but more than the ridiculously small 2 per week).
As long as I'm able to function I don't really care if it takes me 6 months or longer to get off this stuff. I just simply can't take 2 months of sick leave at this point in my career.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:11:55
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » jeenobeano, posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 12:39:07
I've been on Welbutrin for the past year, along with wean off of Paxil (down to 7.5mg) and just started on 37.5mg of Effexor, NO problems or side effects that I can attribute to Welbutrin. I decided to try starting Effexor after reading some of this thread, because I cannot see how the withdrawl can be worse than Paxil for me, and I still want the right cocktail. One of the recent postings on this thread indicated that there is no difference between withdrawl from a full dose or weaning with Effexor. I am not saying this is not true, just be cautious. Weaning may not be fun with Paxil, but cold turkey allegedly caused a former Paxil user to become homicidal and suicidal and act on both, resulting in a lawsuit in Wyoming. I intend to wean off Effexor, when it is time, unless I am convinced that I can safely (within SSRI withdrawl funtime limits) stop entirely all at once.
jd
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 15, 2003, at 14:29:48
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:11:55
Hi Jersydevil :-)
I think the post you are referring to about there being no difference between weening or going cold turkey, is from me.
I was referring to the withdrawal symptoms. There has been some very basic studies into the actual physical withdrawal side-effects and the severity of these withdrawal symptoms were seen as the same whether people tapered off or quit cold turkey under a doctors supervision. The main difference was the time...the people who quit cold turkey did not have as long a period of the withdrawal symptoms as those who weened off. And for those who quit cold turkey a single dose prescribed by their doc for 1 20mg dose of Prozac releived most of the major withrawal symptoms.
Again, I'm not saying either method is the best. But I can speak to the cold turkey method. I had a total of 3 days when I was not able to do my regular things (3 sick days in effect), the rest of the time, while I did not feel well, I was still totally functional. Now, three weeks since my last dose, I have been feeling really pretty good for the past week and a half.
-Bliss
p.s. I'm trying to get my doc to e-mail me a copy of the report she and my pdoc are referring to. If I get it I will post a link to it on here.
Posted by jeenobeano on December 15, 2003, at 14:45:11
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 15, 2003, at 14:29:48
> Hi Jersydevil :-)
>
> I think the post you are referring to about there being no difference between weening or going cold turkey, is from me.
>
> I was referring to the withdrawal symptoms. There has been some very basic studies into the actual physical withdrawal side-effects and the severity of these withdrawal symptoms were seen as the same whether people tapered off or quit cold turkey under a doctors supervision. The main difference was the time...the people who quit cold turkey did not have as long a period of the withdrawal symptoms as those who weened off. And for those who quit cold turkey a single dose prescribed by their doc for 1 20mg dose of Prozac releived most of the major withrawal symptoms.
>
> Again, I'm not saying either method is the best. But I can speak to the cold turkey method. I had a total of 3 days when I was not able to do my regular things (3 sick days in effect), the rest of the time, while I did not feel well, I was still totally functional. Now, three weeks since my last dose, I have been feeling really pretty good for the past week and a half.
>
> -Bliss
> p.s. I'm trying to get my doc to e-mail me a copy of the report she and my pdoc are referring to. If I get it I will post a link to it on here.Bliss,
It makes sense to me that the TOTAL amount of withdrawal symptoms could be similar if you taper vs. if you withdraw. However, just from my own personal experience, the day-to-day w/d symptoms I've suffered from sloooowwww tapering have been a fraction of what they were when I sped up the tapering process. Maybe I'm gonna suffer just as much overall, but each day's allotment of pain will be tiny -- which I can handle.
I'm an attorney and the sole breadwinner in my family. I'm also no hero; rather, I'm a total wimp with a very low pain threshhold. I can afford to feel kind of not-great for 6 months. I CANNOT afford to be incapacitated for any amount of time.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:53:43
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jeenobeano on December 15, 2003, at 14:45:11
I hear ya, Bean, I have an expert dep to take next week and I hope I'm up to it with the change in meds. But I lost 2 months last summer (SLI) due to a major crash which could have put me in the hospital. Part of that crash I attribute to a step down from 10 to 7.5mg on Paxil. But I had a few other things going on too. I am planning on finishing off the Paxil wean once I'm at two weeks on Effexor. I hope it doesn't trash my holidays.
Posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 17:04:01
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 15, 2003, at 14:53:43
I do worry about the holidays approaching and attempting to wean off completely as well. I am hoping that the distraction of the holiday hustle and bustle will help. It will be my best christmas present to be completely off medication and feeling like the old me again. (see..I can type rather controlled today cuz I have yesterdays dose in me...its tomorrow I worry about since today is my 'skip' day) I hope you all have a great holiday and wanted to tell you how much this chating helps.
Posted by Roomy on December 16, 2003, at 9:20:19
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » jerseydevil, posted by Roomy on December 15, 2003, at 17:04:01
Greetings again today folks. I was awake at 3:00am and had trouble sleeping off and on until I just stayed up thismorning at 6:30am but I feel real good so far. I have been busy baking and wrapping gifts and getting my Christmas cards out. I am keeping myself distracted and I think it is helping. I am keeping the drug weaning on a strict schedule yet the withdrawl symptoms seem to come and go with no schedule at all. I wonder if what ya eat and how much sleep one gets has any impact on the withdrawl. I heard that vitamim B helps but again, I dont want to take any kind of pills. Vitamins included! So...does vitamin B really help? and if so....what foods have an abundance of it? With all of your help I think I can get thru this!
Posted by karlou on December 16, 2003, at 12:32:36
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news » Roomy, posted by Roomy on December 16, 2003, at 9:20:19
Hi all-just took myself off effexor 3 days ago - nothing else had changed so I couldn't understand why I felt so awful...blech....I took the cold turkey approach, but honestly don't know if I can stand this...my eyes hurt, and all the side effects you guys have mentioned as well. I think if I had known it would be so hard to get off of, I never would have went on it.
I made the decision as I felt like my life was finally in a good place and just wanted to get away from all the meds....but,it is nice to know that the welbutrin can make some of these side effects less bothersome...for whoever posted that THANKS - if I can't stand this I may resort to trying to get through with the welbutrin...who knew this would be this much fun?
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 13:19:42
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by karlou on December 16, 2003, at 12:32:36
I'm stable and in good spirits again today. Although I still feel succeptable to falling asleep right where I am (in my office at work right now) which is probably the topomine. Otherwise, once my body gets used to the topomine, I think I could live on this mix (unfortunately it only has nine different jagged little pills to it(ok, some of the pills aren't so little)). QUESTION, why do we always want to get off of everything when we are finally stable? Maybe it's possible, or not, or dangerous, or not. I like my pdoc alot and trust him, even if I do have to bring new information to his attention from time to time. I don't step down or quit anything without his ok.
B complexes, I get them from pills, where else?
Anyone else feeling ok today?
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 13:19:42
I'm feeling fantastic!!
I would go through that 3-day sick weekend I had going cold turkey off of Effexor a hndred times over if it means being able to feel like ME again!
I had my last dose of 225 mg of Effexor on November 18...the withdrawal symptoms peaked and made life nearly impossible November 21 -22 (3 days and I timed it so they occured over a weekend)...and today it is 27 days free of Effexor!! It feels like a lifetime ago when I was twitching, itching, brain shivering, irritable, hostile, confused, and feeling like I was wrapped in cotton...and those were all the feelings I had BEFORE stopping the Effexor. Sure the magnified for a few days during withdrawal but the are gone now. I still get the occassional mild "brain shiver-shock" if I'm extremely over-tired or if I've had too much caffeine. As for food and suppliments, here is what my pdoc prescribed during this time:
1 multi vitamin once per day
3 Omega 3-6-9 capsules twice per day
1 100mg Folic Acid once per day
1 300mg Iron once per day
1 Stress Capsule once per day (containing vitamins B1,2,6 & 12 and vitamin C)In my case, I wanted off of Effexor so badly because it was not having a positive impact on me anymore. Now, I am on Remeron which seems to be helping somewhat, but my pdoc is planning on having me weaned off of this by mid-January.
Why you ask has my pdoc chosen the radical concept of no meds? Because there are an awful lot of people like myself who have been prescribed medications to treat our symptoms and once we have our symptoms undercontrol, we just don't bother to treat the underlying original condition. My pdocs approach is now to treat the underlying condition FIRST and then deal with the symptoms that are possibly best controlled with meds.
I'd also like to remind all of the people posting that it is a bit insulting to assume that you have more or less responsibilities in your life or to your job than the others posting here. I too have been going through all of this with a family, and as the sole breadwinner and in a profession that does not typically allow for "breaks" or time off. Rather than complain or use these facts as excuses for not improving my situation, I have chosen to be creative and work my healing process into these two important aspects of my life because mental illness and being a prefessional and a mother are not mutually exclusive.
-Bliss
Posted by jeenobeano on December 16, 2003, at 14:20:31
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
> I'm feeling fantastic!!
>
> I would go through that 3-day sick weekend I had going cold turkey off of Effexor a hndred times over if it means being able to feel like ME again!
>
> I had my last dose of 225 mg of Effexor on November 18...the withdrawal symptoms peaked and made life nearly impossible November 21 -22 (3 days and I timed it so they occured over a weekend)...and today it is 27 days free of Effexor!! It feels like a lifetime ago when I was twitching, itching, brain shivering, irritable, hostile, confused, and feeling like I was wrapped in cotton...and those were all the feelings I had BEFORE stopping the Effexor. Sure the magnified for a few days during withdrawal but the are gone now. I still get the occassional mild "brain shiver-shock" if I'm extremely over-tired or if I've had too much caffeine. As for food and suppliments, here is what my pdoc prescribed during this time:
> 1 multi vitamin once per day
> 3 Omega 3-6-9 capsules twice per day
> 1 100mg Folic Acid once per day
> 1 300mg Iron once per day
> 1 Stress Capsule once per day (containing vitamins B1,2,6 & 12 and vitamin C)
>
> In my case, I wanted off of Effexor so badly because it was not having a positive impact on me anymore. Now, I am on Remeron which seems to be helping somewhat, but my pdoc is planning on having me weaned off of this by mid-January.
>
> Why you ask has my pdoc chosen the radical concept of no meds? Because there are an awful lot of people like myself who have been prescribed medications to treat our symptoms and once we have our symptoms undercontrol, we just don't bother to treat the underlying original condition. My pdocs approach is now to treat the underlying condition FIRST and then deal with the symptoms that are possibly best controlled with meds.
>
> I'd also like to remind all of the people posting that it is a bit insulting to assume that you have more or less responsibilities in your life or to your job than the others posting here. I too have been going through all of this with a family, and as the sole breadwinner and in a profession that does not typically allow for "breaks" or time off. Rather than complain or use these facts as excuses for not improving my situation, I have chosen to be creative and work my healing process into these two important aspects of my life because mental illness and being a prefessional and a mother are not mutually exclusive.
>
> -BlissBliss,
I'm sorry if one of my posts was one of the ones you felt was insulting. I meant no harm by anything I wrote earlier, and I certainly did not mean to imply that I have greater responsibilities than anyone else on this board. If that's the message I conveyed I do apologize.
My pdoc specifically told me that based on the symptoms I experienced when I was taking only 5% less per day than usual, if I went cold turkey my w/d would be waaaaaaay worse than he sees in his typical cases. It wouldn't just knock me on my butt for the 3 days you experienced; rather, he seemed to think I'd be rendered incapacited for a much greater length of time. I didn't mean to belittle what you went through, but I just started a new job and I simply cannot take an indefinite amount of time off of work. I'm also a huge wimp and couldn't stand even 3 days of agony, I'm quite certain.
Like you, I'm trying to be creative here and fix my situation in a way that works best for me.
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:23:24
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:08:16
GO GIRL! Alas, my underlying condition is still on the mend. I am working a "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach, but I still have some chemical imbalances. Glad to know there's hope. Thanks Bliss.
Posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:35:46
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:23:24
> GO GIRL! Alas, my underlying condition is still on the mend. I am working a "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach, but I still have some chemical imbalances. Glad to know there's hope. Thanks Bliss.
>I hear you on the "buddist"/higher power meditation face my fears and become a better person approach" I know this may sound odd...especially since I'm not a buddhist...lol...but they have this meditation called the Mhetta Bhavana
which I swear has been working wonders for me in terms of my attitude. There are 5 stages, I myself have only done the first one. A year ago if you told me I would be trying buddhist meditation to ease my anxiety and depression it probably would have been the only thing that would have made me laugh. Now, I'm trying anything and everything to get my life back on track because I refuse to keep riding the nasty anxiety/depression rollar coaster.You can find it at:
http://www.wildmind.org/meditation/metta/-Bliss
Posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:52:53
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by Blissful_Girl_NOT on December 16, 2003, at 14:35:46
Spiritual relief along with pharmacological. Anything and everything. Check out "When things fall apart" by Pema Chodron. Not that I plan on becoming a Buddist, but their meditation rocks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2003, at 8:23:02
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by jerseydevil on December 16, 2003, at 14:52:53
> Spiritual relief along with pharmacological. Anything and everything. Check out "When things fall apart" by Pema Chodron.
I'd like to redirect follow-ups about spiritual relief to Psycho-Babble Faith. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20030908/msgs/290871.html
Also, I'd like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by jerseydevil on December 17, 2003, at 10:42:51
In reply to Redirect: Spiritual relief + double double quotes » jerseydevil, posted by Dr. Bob on December 17, 2003, at 8:23:02
I have to try Dr. Bob's wunderlink, the book is "When Things Fall Apart"
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