![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
putting my sons room right i came across a bottle of "di-hydan"--phenytoin which he has gotten over the internet from Pakistan.Stringent interrogation and prodding has revealed only this "its inst a drug okay :people do this for greater concentration"...........interrogation stringet still has yielded this "MY LIFE ...I DO WHATEVER I WANT! if not infront of you then behind your back".........please dont mind the melodrama but as a mother....i losing sleep at night over this..
The search on net has indeed shown that phenytoin (siezure control for epileptics) is widely used as a nootropic/cognition enhacing substance........thye say its "stablizes the electric imlblances in your neurons allowing you to concentrate better and for longer..making you calmer and focused".....how much of this all is true?...people have tried this will a great help if they can tell me of the benefit gained from used.
Furthermore can anyone tell me for the following :
1)Phenytoin as a hepatotoxic.
2)Folic aicd and Calciferol supplementaion
3)Gum enlargement (increased collagen prodution)
4)Dosage for cognitive enhancementPlease reply i need to know whats going on
Posted by rod on February 24, 2004, at 4:32:37
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
Hmm, as someone who takes a lot of psychotropic medication my inhibition treshold to take drugs is very low, so I might be not of great help here. Wow, I did not know that you can use this for that purpose. How old is your son? If I were the father of your son, I would not worry much about this. Many people get drunk every weekend. That might be of greater concern than this.
> putting my sons room right i came across a bottle of "di-hydan"--phenytoin which he has gotten over the internet from Pakistan.Stringent interrogation and prodding has revealed only this "its inst a drug okay :people do this for greater concentration"...........interrogation stringet still has yielded this "MY LIFE ...I DO WHATEVER I WANT! if not infront of you then behind your back".........please dont mind the melodrama but as a mother....i losing sleep at night over this..
> The search on net has indeed shown that phenytoin (siezure control for epileptics) is widely used as a nootropic/cognition enhacing substance........thye say its "stablizes the electric imlblances in your neurons allowing you to concentrate better and for longer..making you calmer and focused".....how much of this all is true?...people have tried this will a great help if they can tell me of the benefit gained from used.
> Furthermore can anyone tell me for the following :
> 1)Phenytoin as a hepatotoxic.I dont know, but I guess its toxic like all older drugs.
> 2)Folic aicd and Calciferol supplementaion
It "detroys" some Folic acid and Vitamin D. So I guess supplementin these is a good thing.
> 3)Gum enlargement (increased collagen prodution)
No clue.
> 4)Dosage for cognitive enhancement
I guess it is a subeffective dose for epilepsy, because generally it causes cognitive disturbance and memory problems.> Please reply i need to know whats going on
>
>Thats all I can say, even this might not be a great support for you.
Roland
Posted by Chairman_MAO on February 24, 2004, at 8:18:59
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
I do not understand why anyone would try phenytoin first for cognitive enhancement. The first three concerns you've listed are real, though at the dosage he's probably taking for cognitive enhancement, they're probably not of much concern. You never know, though, and phenytoin is a drug which, when given to epileptics, usually requires blood work to find serum levels. Everyone's body metabolizes phenytoin differently, and I feel that using phenytoin long-term without the supervision of a doctor is foolish. If your son is taking any other medications, phenytoin may speed up the rate at which they're metabolized. Hell, even taking phenobarbital (anticonvulsant barbiturate) is probably safer overall. I'm not a doctor, but I know enough to tell you that your son should consult one before taking phenytoin.
If your son is self-medicating concentration issues, take him to a psychiatrist so he can get some stimulants! Our society's concept of what is a "safe drug" is utterly warped. Very often, the "abusable" drugs have far fewer long-term side effects than the "non-abusable" ones. Alternatively, he may benefit from a mood-stabilizer.
Do not come down too hard on your son; he's just trying to give himself an edge in a tough world. Rather, ask him what he's trying to accomplish and myself, others here, and doctors--who should be consulted before using anything like phenytoin--can give you far more suitable things to try.
If he finds that phenytoin "calms" him so that he can think better, he would clearly benefit from a mood stabilizer. Two drugs which are markedly safer than phenytoin and probably more effective are Lamictal and Trileptal, both fast sodium channel blockers, like phenytoin. Supplementing with Kava Kava might work well, too, as it is also a sodium channel blocker, among other things, but have liver function tests done every once and a while with this one. Another thing to try is Pikamilon, a drug developed in Russia, which has extremely low if not nonexistent toxicity and has a calming-yet-not-sedating effect.
Best wishes, and please communicate to him, above all else, that there are far better/safer drugs than phenytoin to use for this purpose!
Posted by utopizen on February 24, 2004, at 11:10:18
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES » xanthophill, posted by Chairman_MAO on February 24, 2004, at 8:18:59
Okay, your son reads Jack Dreyfus books on the clinical efficacy of PHT for off-label uses.
It's called Dilantin, the trade name.
It's likely a farely okay drug when used without any other meds and blood tests every month with a doc, but um, I don't know, I brought it up with my psychiatrist, for my social anxiety disorder, and he didn't feel comfortable with it. If you ever read any of your med's info sheet from the pharmacy, chances are there's some potential interaction with Dilantin listed... so it needs to be monitored interaction wise.
I did read a study that found that the gum issue is likely related to hygiene problems, which is what I initially suspected-- it makes it worse, but if one is good with their dental hygiene, the risk is really really low. Makes sense, if you think of how many kids with epillepsy also happen to have more severe disorders that make hygiene difficult for them.
No, your son could be doing actual drugs... I'd be more concerned about the underlying reason why he's doing it. Kids with ADD fight their concentration problems, and resort to anything they can to simply focus on things most non-ADDers take for granted, like reading a book they really want to make sure gets read.
If your son didn't have ADD, he wouldn't resort to going to a website to buy DIlantin. I still despise my parents, as well intentioned they were (?) for seeing me get straight F's in high school early on and just thinking I was "lazy.' That's not something a kid as serious about the world does because they can help it.
In short, talk to your son about seeing a "doctor who might find something that may work even better at helping you focus."
Posted by ramsea on February 25, 2004, at 4:33:04
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by utopizen on February 24, 2004, at 11:10:18
I was tempted to self-medicate with dilantin before. But if you do a thorough search there seems so much against it--like the other posters said. The advice to treat this incident as a wake-up call to a problem your son may very well be distressed about, seems excellent. Taking a cool and factual approach seems great to me. Really low emotion, if you can manage it.
The biggest question is what is it in your son that appears to need extra help--it may be serious ADD, and it may be solely a concentration problem. Or--- there may be depression, or unbearable anxiety. Or he might have some other difficulty, perhaps at root temporary and upsetting. He may need talking therapy, a 3rd person trained in spotting ADD and other problems in young people.
But my 2 cents worth is to try and make it clear that he actually isn't weird or unusual for his age, many students end up needing extra support, and it is no big deal--though it may be necessary, and if he does need medication, he can then get the right med--and hopefully it will be a med that doesn't have so many zillion interactions--potentially dangerous.
He can consider with a professional all of these issues. And if a med is chosen, it will hopefuly be a cleaner one, and less expensive, with no uncertain buying over the Net. Hope you write back how you guys get along. best wishes.
Posted by xanthophill on February 25, 2004, at 12:14:58
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by utopizen on February 24, 2004, at 11:10:18
why wouldnt be teenagers tempted to use this abomination? :
The Russian gerontologist Vladimir Dilman believes that major diseases result from developmental inadequacies rather than ocurring in some unknown, random fashion. According to Dilman, degenerative diseases occur when the neuroendocrine system fails to re-right itself following "normal" aging changes. Dr. Dilnan believes it is impossible to counter these diseases without dealing with aging and that aging, itself, is reversible.Dilantin (phenytoin or diphenylhydantoin) is one of a number of age-retarding therapies proposed by Dilman (others include melatonin, L-dopa, and L-deprenyl). About Dilantin, Jack Dreyus, the founder of Dreyfus Mutual Funds, has written, "A remarkable medicine has been overlooked (1981)." Dreyfus had long suffered from severe depression, which Dilantin cured so successfully that Dreyfus created a medical foundation in order to tell the world about its many benefits. Although more than 100 diseases and symptoms have been reported to be improved by Dilantin (Finkel, 1984), FDA approval exists only for its use as a treatment for epilepsy.
INTELLIGENCE & CONCENTRATION
One of the principal mechanitsms, akin to its antiepileptic and antidepression benefits (Dreyfus, 1981), involves Dilantin's ability to enhance mental concentration, presumably through its ability to stabilize electrical activity in cell membranes. Thits is extremely important because the electrical/electrochemical processes of the cell's exterior interface with virtually all of the body's activities. Other benefits that probably derive from this effect of Dilantin include:
* increased intelligence and improved verbal performance
* improved behavior of the aged
* enhanced long-term memory
* greater learning ability
More than 10,000 studies on Dilantin have appeared in the literature. Other wide-ranging benefits of Dilantin use include an antiobesity effect (Thomas, 1986), motion sickness improvement, ( Woodard, 1993), alleviation of drug addiction and alcoholism (Lowenstein, 1993), hypoglycemia treatment (Johnson, 1993), improved wound healing (Pendse, 1993), and decreased violent behavior (Itel, 1978). A recent study on the impact of Dilantin in managing epilepsy found that it reduced epileptic discharges during sleep and increased the speed with which sleep is entered in the short intermediate, and long run (Roder-Wanner, 1987). In addition, it was found to increase slow-wave sleep in the short term. There have been many reports of Dilantin's beneficial use for jet lag.
LIFE EXTENSION
Dilantin has been shown, in animal experiments, to decrease tumor incidence and to prolong mean life span by 250%. Studies have shown a positive correlation between HDL cholesterol levels and longevity, and in humans Dilantin has been found to increatse HDL cholesterol. It has also been shown to prolong the reproductive period and to improve hypothalamic sensitivity to homeostasis signals, which Dilman believes plays a major role in aging.
It is important to note that, as with other drugs, more is not necessarily better, and in the instance of Dilantin, this is especially true. The amounts that epileptics typically take can have negative effects on intelligence and can lead to decreased motor speed or reaction time. Because Dilantin inhibits the function of the thyroid gland, sup- plemental thyroid hormone may be necessary. It can also impact the body's availability of vitamin B-12 and folate, so it is also important to take a supplemental dose of these nutrients when taking Dilantin. Pregnant women or those with renal or cardiac conditions should not use Dilantin
****************
Phenytoin is a remarkable multipurpose drug that has been the subject of more than 8,000 published papers. It is the most common treatment for epilepsy, and is prescribed under the generic name phenytoin and its trade name, Dilantin. It normalizes and improves mental functioning in general and improves concentration, learning, and thinking in particular. Discovered in 1938, phenytoin was used as an anticonvulsant and is still heralded as the most effective drug for this purpose ever discovered. Although scientists are just beginning to understand the electrical nature of humans and other animals, most people know that our nerves are electrical in nature. Thinking, memory, and pain are all electrically generated. Phenytoin stabilizes the electrical activity in the body at the level of the cell membrane. Phenytoin stops convulsions, which are electrical in nature. When cells show too much or too little electrical activity, phenytoin brings them back into balance. In addition, when the brain cells are functioning normally, the drug can calm the individual and increase energy levels. So phenytoin acts as a kind of medical equivalent to meditation, promoting calm and harmony. Because phenytoin influences electric currents, it can affect thinking and recall. Scientists don't really understand how phenytoin works; however, they postulate that it influences electromagnetic fields, which polarize the electrically charged elements in the cells. This results in a more effective organizational structure, so that cell and brain functioning is improved. One of the major advantages of phenytoin is it stabilizes and normalizes the nervous system without acting as either a stimulant or a depressant. The result is that one can concentrate, learn, and remember better. Prolonged concentration can be exhausting. One effect of phenytoin is that it delays the onset of fatigue and thereby reduces errors that accompany fatigue. In this regard, phenytoin's effect is similar to that of stimulants, but it is not a stimulant and has none of the side effects common to stimulants. Generally phenytoin's effectiveness for a wide variety of disorders is unknown to most doctors. Most doctors think it is useful only in maintaining epilepsy, and are not knowledgeable about its tremendous impact on general cognitive functioning, mood moderation, and concentration. Phenytoin does have some significant but infrequent side effects when taken in regular dosages. Some people report tremors, insomnia, headaches, dizziness, nausea, and vomiting. Dr. Pelton indicates that phenytoin can occasionally cause liver toxicity during the first few weeks of use. Some people, mostly children with epilepsy, report gum problems. A major consideration for most people using phenytoin is that it can disturb absorption of vitamin D and folic acid, which are essential for health. Dr. Pelton recommends that people on phenytoin therapy take supplements of vitamin D, calcium, and folic acid. Phenytoin is available, by prescription, in capsule, tablet, and liquid forms. The original patent has expired, so it is available under its generic name, phenytoin, as well as under its trade name Dilantin in the United States, and Epanutin, Epamin, Eplin, Idantoin, and Aleviatan in other countries.WHERE ARE THE DANGERS OF INTERACTION AND LIVER TOXICITY MENTIONED? WHERE ARE THE DANGERS OF DOSAGE MALADJUSTMENT MENTIONED???
Posted by djmmm on February 25, 2004, at 14:11:41
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
> putting my sons room right i came across a bottle of "di-hydan"--phenytoin which he has gotten over the internet from Pakistan.Stringent interrogation and prodding has revealed only this "its inst a drug okay :people do this for greater concentration"...........interrogation stringet still has yielded this "MY LIFE ...I DO WHATEVER I WANT! if not infront of you then behind your back".........please dont mind the melodrama but as a mother....i losing sleep at night over this..
> The search on net has indeed shown that phenytoin (siezure control for epileptics) is widely used as a nootropic/cognition enhacing substance........thye say its "stablizes the electric imlblances in your neurons allowing you to concentrate better and for longer..making you calmer and focused".....how much of this all is true?...people have tried this will a great help if they can tell me of the benefit gained from used.
> Furthermore can anyone tell me for the following :
> 1)Phenytoin as a hepatotoxic.
> 2)Folic aicd and Calciferol supplementaion
> 3)Gum enlargement (increased collagen prodution)
> 4)Dosage for cognitive enhancement
>
> Please reply i need to know whats going on
>
>
>
>
>Just take the pills away from him... they will do him more harm then good.
Posted by utopizen on February 25, 2004, at 18:26:26
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by djmmm on February 25, 2004, at 14:11:41
geez, recalls me a year ago back when I was in a search for anything that could relieve my anxieties as well as prn Klonopin (which the doc I had back then refused to prescribe daily).
It sounded so good, and I read Jack's book and all. You really want to believe it, when you're desperate.
Posted by Wolf Dreamer on February 25, 2004, at 19:23:59
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by utopizen on February 25, 2004, at 18:26:26
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/medmaster/a682022.html
Thats a lot of information about it, including side effects.
I always go to the google search engine, then type in the name of the drug, followed by .gov. Sometimes I have to use the Advance Search button and set it to search only for webpages that end in .gov but usually it works fine the other way.
That way I can find a government webpage, almost always the national institute of mental health, to see what the government says about it, since they aren't trying to sell me anything, and therefor are a far more reliable source of information.
Posted by interject79 on February 25, 2004, at 21:44:39
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
Your son is likely trying to self-medicate for a number of potential problems: ADHD, anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder are possible, among others. I had similar traits due to untreated ADHD and anxiety. And I was very defensive if questioned about any of my alternative choices for treatment. Get with the family physician and see what's going on, but be cautious about accepting "he's depressed, so how about an SSRI trial?"
Phenytoin isn't that good for much as I understand, and I suspect its about as good as placebo for the things you mentioned.
Best wishes,
interject
Posted by HappyGirl on February 26, 2004, at 17:28:13
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
Hi:
I agree with most people's advices/suggestions on your problem as to finding a 'strange' med. in your son's room.
One thing I know of is that once a young man(sounds like your son is in late teens or in early 20's) started on his own, it's quite hard for anyone, even as a Mom to get a good answer from those young folks. But, I quite understand your worry and concern over this incident, finding, ... the first thing for you, as a Mom, is probably yourself, go to seek some counselling to get proper instruction how to deal with the current situation with your son, because your son sounds to me like pretty defensive on his action, ... in other words, he has NO intention to change things he's going to do. Talk to your son, ... if you can, ... but I highly doubt this method works on the situation like this. On the otherhand, I understand you NOT able to step back and watch him, ... it's impossible to do. Probably, if you could find a right counselor, then this route might be one of best solutions on this situation.
H.G.
Posted by xanthophill on February 27, 2004, at 10:26:11
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by HappyGirl on February 26, 2004, at 17:28:13
thank u all for such great advice........my son was lucky enough to have had enough sense to realize the possible outcomes of continuing phenytoin..i printed out the interactions and side-effects and showed it to him.....and thankfully he has now changed his mind.....u see when someone here said that phenytoin worsens gum problems for people.....i even told him that he siad he had a mouth sore which had got so bad that almost couldnt eat because it burned too bad....and small surprise phehytoin has a hand in this.......
after talking things over i have decided to buy him DMAE which is a far far safer subsitute .I enclose some literature on it....people who have tried it already will be a big help.THANK U ALL SO VERY MUCHDMAE
Normally found in small amounts in our brains, DMAE (dimetheyaminoethanol) has been shown to remarkably enhance brain function when used as a supplement in clinical studies.For instance, in a French double-blind study, individuals were given 1200 mg/day of DMAE for five days and showed significant improvements in alertness, neuromotor control, with decreased anxiety.Studies also show a remarkable improvement in learning and behavior problems such as ADD. A study conducted by Dr. Carl Pfeiffer of Princeton, N.J. showed significant improvements in behavior, learning ability, and attention span with 108 boys and girls. Irritability was decreased, scholastic ability was improved and IQ was actually elevated in some cases. These same improvements were seen with another study using 500mg of DMAE on 74 children with learning and hyperactivity problems.Other adult studies on DMAE show a continual mild stimulation without side effects with DMAE as well as increased intelligence and physical energy. With all its remarkable benefits, DMAE is sure to take its place as an important contribution to nutritional supplements.TAKING DMAEDosage: Begin with low dosages (125mg) and slowly increase up to 500mg/day as needed. Overdosing can cause insomnia, headaches or muscle tension. which disappear when dosage is lowered. No serious adverse effects have ever been reported. Should not be used by epileptics or those with manic depression
Posted by interject79 on February 27, 2004, at 13:06:32
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 27, 2004, at 10:26:11
DMAE is definitely worth a try. It's safe and relatively effective. I've taken it by itself and with Adderall with very good results for ADHD; it even helps keep my Adderall dosage lower I believe. Don't be afraid to go up to 500mg/day after a few days w/ no trouble. Many of the claims I've seen about DMAE are legitimate from my perspective.
Tyrosine and acetyl l-tyrosine, dopamine precursor/s, can be used for stimulating effects also. Tyrosine isn't as effective as DMAE IMO, though.
Best wishes,
interject
Posted by Maxime on February 27, 2004, at 20:38:33
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
Hi
I am bipolar and I was prescribed Dilantin as a mood stabiliser. I took it for about 2 months and it didn't help so I switched to something else. I told my dentist I was taking it and he said to make sure I take extra care of my gums.
Anyhow, I am telling you this because sometimes people are prescribed it as a mood stabiliser.
Maxime
> putting my sons room right i came across a bottle of "di-hydan"--phenytoin which he has gotten over the internet from Pakistan.Stringent interrogation and prodding has revealed only this "its inst a drug okay :people do this for greater concentration"...........interrogation stringet still has yielded this "MY LIFE ...I DO WHATEVER I WANT! if not infront of you then behind your back".........please dont mind the melodrama but as a mother....i losing sleep at night over this..
> The search on net has indeed shown that phenytoin (siezure control for epileptics) is widely used as a nootropic/cognition enhacing substance........thye say its "stablizes the electric imlblances in your neurons allowing you to concentrate better and for longer..making you calmer and focused".....how much of this all is true?...people have tried this will a great help if they can tell me of the benefit gained from used.
> Furthermore can anyone tell me for the following :
> 1)Phenytoin as a hepatotoxic.
> 2)Folic aicd and Calciferol supplementaion
> 3)Gum enlargement (increased collagen prodution)
> 4)Dosage for cognitive enhancement
>
> Please reply i need to know whats going on
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by xanthophill on February 28, 2004, at 8:04:26
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUP, posted by Maxime on February 27, 2004, at 20:38:33
one of the side-effects i have encountered with DMAE is :feeling oversexed.....having intercourse does not solve the problem
CAN ANYONE PLZ HELP?
Posted by HappyGirl on February 28, 2004, at 15:08:16
In reply to HELP : prob using DMAE, posted by xanthophill on February 28, 2004, at 8:04:26
Hi:
This form of problem, 'Over-sex' is one of manic symptoms in Bipolar, not every Bps, ... but just 'few' Bps have. However, since there is NO definite name for your son's problem, ... then I can not be sure. There are any other problem to name/list on this.
Also, this form of problem(If,..'manic')sometimes brought by anti-dep., especially SSRIs that is quite notorious among some of Bps.
Some of folks here are so brilliant to offer a proper answer on all sorts of mental problems, ... then hopefully, a good response along with proper solution would arrive SOON.
H.G.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 2:00:06
In reply to HELP : prob using DMAE, posted by xanthophill on February 28, 2004, at 8:04:26
> one of the side-effects i have encountered with DMAE is :feeling oversexed.....
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding DMAE to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040225/msgs/319999.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2004, at 17:30:47
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
Posted by caleb96 on March 21, 2004, at 14:29:30
Why is your son needing to concentrate better? Is he trying to study harder?
--C
Posted by xanthophill on March 25, 2004, at 7:09:13
In reply to Re: PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PURPOSES « caleb96, posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2004, at 17:30:47
Yes my son was using phenytoin for longer periods of study: which require long stretches of concentration no doubt that phenytoin did indeed help him for the purpose used..but great toxicity and and "apthay" or more appropriately "lack of emotion" and gum sensitivity due to increased collagen production me take preventive measures.
Ive now decided to buy him MODAFINIL which had virtually zero toxicity throught the internet.
Posted by kemist on May 16, 2004, at 18:05:29
In reply to HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by xanthophill on February 24, 2004, at 0:10:00
I've been using phenytoin semi-regularly for about 10 years for improved concentration without any of the negative effects you mentioned. I'm sure these are a risk, and I have at times considered discontinuing my use.
However, the typical dose for cognitive enhancement is 50mg and I know people who take only 25mg. I'd never take more than 100mg in a day (and I'm quite big). Larger doses are counter-productive in my experience. The studies which reported the negative effects are about epileptics who typically take much greater doses.
I'd counsel him to take as little as possible.
cheers,
kemist
Posted by xanthophill on May 16, 2004, at 22:36:19
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by kemist on May 16, 2004, at 18:05:29
> I've been using phenytoin semi-regularly for about 10 years for improved concentration without any of the negative effects you mentioned. I'm sure these are a risk, and I have at times considered discontinuing my use.
>
> However, the typical dose for cognitive enhancement is 50mg and I know people who take only 25mg. I'd never take more than 100mg in a day (and I'm quite big). Larger doses are counter-productive in my experience. The studies which reported the negative effects are about epileptics who typically take much greater doses.
>
> I'd counsel him to take as little as possible.
>
> cheers,
> kemist
>=====> what exactly are the negative effects experienced on higher doses (other than the ones i mentioned.....? yes my son is taking 100mg per day.
Posted by kemist on May 17, 2004, at 16:33:03
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES » kemist, posted by xanthophill on May 16, 2004, at 22:36:19
> > I've been using phenytoin semi-regularly for about 10 years for improved concentration without any of the negative effects you mentioned. I'm sure these are a risk, and I have at times considered discontinuing my use.
> >
> > However, the typical dose for cognitive enhancement is 50mg and I know people who take only 25mg. I'd never take more than 100mg in a day (and I'm quite big). Larger doses are counter-productive in my experience. The studies which reported the negative effects are about epileptics who typically take much greater doses.
> >
> > I'd counsel him to take as little as possible.
> >
> > cheers,
> > kemist
> >
>
> =====> what exactly are the negative effects experienced on higher doses (other than the ones i mentioned.....? yes my son is taking 100mg per day.
>I was referring to cognitive effects. If I take a lot I feel as though my head is full of cotton wool -- slow thinking, might be the more technical term.
cheers,
kemist
Posted by rod on May 17, 2004, at 16:49:02
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by kemist on May 16, 2004, at 18:05:29
> I've been using phenytoin semi-regularly for about 10 years for improved concentration without any of the negative effects you mentioned. I'm sure these are a risk, and I have at times considered discontinuing my use.
>
> However, the typical dose for cognitive enhancement is 50mg and I know people who take only 25mg. I'd never take more than 100mg in a day (and I'm quite big). Larger doses are counter-productive in my experience. The studies which reported the negative effects are about epileptics who typically take much greater doses.
>
> I'd counsel him to take as little as possible.
>
> cheers,
> kemist
>
>
>Hi
How do you take phenytoin? Do you take it once in the morning? How long before you notice the efect? How long does one dose last, typically?
thanks
Roland
Posted by kemist on May 17, 2004, at 17:11:24
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES » kemist, posted by rod on May 17, 2004, at 16:49:02
>
> How do you take phenytoin? Do you take it once in the morning? How long before you notice the efect? How long does one dose last, typically?Roland,
Typically I take 50mg of a work-day morning, but not every day. Sometimes I take another 50 at lunch. I don't take it on weekends -- unlike work my family life is neither tedious nor stressful! I'd say the effects show up in about an hour and last a few hours after that. It's a little hard to know when they wear off because once I get "into the groove" of working I tend to stay there.
I'd look up the drug on medline before taking it. I wouldn't trust some anon on a message board. :?)
kemist
Posted by xanthophill on May 26, 2004, at 4:01:04
In reply to Re: HELP! MY SON IS USING PHENYTOIN FOR OTHER PUPOSES, posted by kemist on May 17, 2004, at 17:11:24
well reading up on on all the hullabaloo.....ive decided to take Phenytoin too.....as 50mg in the morning.
One word to describe the experience :REMARKABLE!
the tense snappy feeling i had sometimes disappears..its easier to concentrate on what yre doinf ..i mean yr thoughts just dont roll abt here and there.......
its only my second day on it so i refrain from writing more.....will be back later with more
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