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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 705 to 729 of 948. Go back in thread:
Posted by katia on July 9, 2004, at 18:32:57
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on July 9, 2004, at 16:02:43
Hi Barb,
I was at 6mg (1/4 of 25mg) for a long time. and that was enough. But that was also with Depakote, then Lithium. After that, when I went off of everything except Seroquel, i upped to 25-75mg per night to sleep.
So in the case of tolerance development or not, I'm not sure because a lot of it depends on the cycling of moods and with what med combo I'm taking. Right now, I shouldn't need the 20mg i take b/c the Paxil and Trileptal are sedating, but I do take that much. So maybe there is a slight tolerance build up. If I take the 1/4 tab, like before, it doesn't really work. I am quite awake. I have a horrible pill cutter, so it never perfectly cuts the pill, so I normally end up with approx. 20mg of a 25mg.I don't see any reason why I should quit taking it. I love my sleep too much! Hope it works out for you.
and good to hear you're not imbibing too much in the swamp water. I have been, but steadily (1-3 gl.), nothing too much at one time, but pretty consisently with maybe 2 nights off a week! But I can feel the build up of it with slight fatique, not quite as clear, and no inspiration, and slightly down.Sit ups at dawn? yikes....! I maybe need to try that. I have to say I always have very intense vivid dreams, but I had that pre-meds anyway.
katia
Posted by SandyWeb on July 10, 2004, at 9:37:52
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » SandyWeb, posted by BarbaraCat on July 9, 2004, at 16:09:29
Hi BarbaraCat,
I'm actually not on 100mg. I tried it, and it really didn't do anything for me. In fact, I had gone up to 150mg to try and find ANY dose that would help me sleep....and that is when the p-doc told me that Seroquel begins losing its sedative properties at 100mg.
I don't really know why the Seroquel doesn't work for me, but I've read MANY success stories about it. I'm glad that it is helping you to sleep! "To sleep, per chance to dream". Orlando Bloom, you say? *smile*
Sandy
Posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 23:09:33
In reply to Re: An update since Seroquel » katia, posted by SandyWeb on July 9, 2004, at 7:31:39
Hi again,
My short-lived trial with Seroquel is over. Since starting it I feel awful. There was just one day I felt OK but by the evening the yucky draggy feeling was back. I didn't sleep well at all last night and all day have felt dizzy, dopey, anxious, weird and stooooopid. Plus, I'm lusting after carbs and sweets and have gained 7 POUNDS in 4 days!I tried zyprexa a few years back and felt similarly. Stuck with it for 1 month and finally dropped it. Been reading about how these meds affect histamine, dopamine and serotonin and I don't think my chemistry jibes with them. I was doing great the short while I was just on lithium and St. John's Wort and thought to try Seroquel as a substitute for Ambien for sleeping. But I think I'll resign myself to Ambien for sleeping and hope I can get back to the good way I was feeling pre-Seroquel. Darn, I was hoping this would be a real positive experiment. - BarbCat
Posted by katia on July 11, 2004, at 0:20:11
In reply to Seroquel - nope, posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 23:09:33
> Hi again,
> My short-lived trial with Seroquel is over. Since starting it I feel awful. There was just one day I felt OK but by the evening the yucky draggy feeling was back. I didn't sleep well at all last night and all day have felt dizzy, dopey, anxious, weird and stooooopid. Plus, I'm lusting after carbs and sweets and have gained 7 POUNDS in 4 days!
>
> I tried zyprexa a few years back and felt similarly. Stuck with it for 1 month and finally dropped it. Been reading about how these meds affect histamine, dopamine and serotonin and I don't think my chemistry jibes with them. I was doing great the short while I was just on lithium and St. John's Wort and thought to try Seroquel as a substitute for Ambien for sleeping. But I think I'll resign myself to Ambien for sleeping and hope I can get back to the good way I was feeling pre-Seroquel. Darn, I was hoping this would be a real positive experiment. - BarbCatHi Barb,
Sorry to hear that your experience wasn't positive.I'm sure you'll feel fine after a few days of clearing Seroquel.
The weight gain is a factor. But it's surprising to hear that in four days you've gained 7 lbs. that's very quick esp. at such a low dose.
I've maintained my weight gain at 130 from 115 after one year of gaining back 15lb. But don't know if it's Seroqu. related or not. I think it may be b/c I should be skinnier with all the running around I do.
Maybe give something else a try. Perhaps your li. is enough sedation? Mabye try what Katy is on..Risperal?
Just an aside, but the Seroq. s/e do lessen over time. But it sounds like you have severe s/e.
I mayself have taken a plummenting in mood. My sweet doggie got into a horrendous fight at the Petsmart yesterday. It was the most awful experience of my life almost. It was sooooo scary b/c of his breed. His teeth locked on to a screaming dog and wouldn't let go. I won't go into details but it was a nightmare. No one got seriously injured. Both dogs got more injured by the people trying to break it up by pounding on them with fists and canes....But alas I paid the bill b/c of my breed. another $200 down the tubes in the name of my beloved...I haven't really stopped crying.
i'm so f-ing sensitive that I think this incident has thrown me into a depression. It's awful. I was crying for 2 hours in the Petsmart before I could leave. they even wanted to call a taxi. Poor kids who worked there weren't prepared to council this howling lady and her dog screaming "I'm sooooo conflicted!" "I don't know what to do with him!"take good care,
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 11, 2004, at 2:08:06
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » barbaracat, posted by katia on July 11, 2004, at 0:20:11
That sounds like a horrific experience with your pooch. A major shock to the system and your adrenaline must have been hammering, especially with the violence of the scene. It takes us bipolars a long time to recover from stress like that. It's almost like a poison you have to recover from. Plus, it's hard to see your critter threatened in any way. We grow so attached to them.
My kitty who almost died over the winter is still doing relatively well. He's pretty amazing. I took him in for a chest x-ray and the vet says he doesn't know what's keeping him alive, things look that bad. He has FIV and has developed an opportunistic lung infection, among other problems. But his will to live is very strong, he runs around, eats well, and loves me so much. Pure delight and love between us. But every now and then he has a massive hacking attack and can't breathe. It tears me apart and I know I have to prepare myself. But I've been saying that for 6 months now, and he's still here! I believe we can feel safer and get closer to our beloved animals than to most people (I sure do) and their loss terrifies us. His sickness is especially agonizing during my bad times and more fodder for the bottomless pit of grief. During the good times I'm able to look at it realistically and appreciate each day with him as a gift.
You'll be fine in a day or two, you know that. Rescue Remedy works well for shocks like this, so does nice slow breathing. Although your pocketbook was hurt, at least your little guy wasn't! Pitbulls are such an intelligent, feisty, protective breed. Part of their charm and their challenge.
As for the meds, I don't think I'll go with an antipsychotic. Something about the dopamine antagonism thing doesn't feel right and I probably need more, not less dopamine. And at this point I have a good feeling about the St. John's and lithium. I guess I'm weird in that lithium has never been anything but great for me - no drooling idiot. It's only the thyroid thing that concerned me. But heck, it's been malfunctioning forever, even though I take thyroid hormone.
Posted by katia on July 11, 2004, at 15:28:43
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 11, 2004, at 2:08:06
Hi Barb,
Do you sleep well enough with just Li. and STJW?
I've been sleeping like a rock lately. Last night 12 hrs. straight and had the most intense dreams. took me 1/2 hour just to open one eye.Therefore, I may try and cut back on the Sero. for the moment. Maybe go to 12.5mg now. Those damn pills are so hard to cut. do you use a pill cutter? Mine is so lousy that when I try and take a lower dose it cuts it lop-sided and I end up taking more than I need to.
The pooch fight. I was not worried about my dog so much as the other dog and the consequences of that due to his targeted breed. It was just awful that I've considered finding him another home. I never really chose this. He sort of adopted me by coming over all the time. But yesterday, he sat with his head in my lap while I read and I felt so happy. Like we'd made up after a fight. It's almost ridiculous how humanly emotional this relationship is with him.
Who knows. I just know I can't afford vet bills of other dogs or worse, like being sued for all I'm worth and own and more.
I have a sweet loveable dog around humans. But other animals are his prey, like he's a lion or an alligator. It's so much responsibility on me when taking for walks.
anyway! Glad to hear your kitty is hanging in there - must be all the love s/he receives.
keep in touch.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 11, 2004, at 16:10:29
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope, posted by katia on July 11, 2004, at 15:28:43
My pill cutter is the standard blue thingy. Works OK for pills of a certain size, but not the bitty ones. I just cut mine in half and then break the other half. I have two and one is definitely better than the other, so you might try another one with a better blade.
I don't sleep well for the most part. I've gone back to Ambien and last night had a great sleep and woke up feeling refreshed and happy, unlike I've felt during my short stint with Seroquel. I'd love to get off sleeping pills and one of these days I'm gonnna start getting up around 5:30 every morning and getting a ton of exercise during the day. I figure I'll just drift off if the conditions are right cause I'll be naturally tired. I don't get enough exercise, which would help with so much. I know if I just committed and got into the habit of a really healthy and active lifestyle, so many of these dumb emotional problems would resolve.
I'll be the longer you have your pooch, the less aggressive he'll be. Who knows what his early conditioning was? But yes, if it gets to be another major source of stress, finding a good home for him would be great for both of you. Finding the good home is the hard part, however, especially with a pitbull. They have a rep, and it takes a special person to understand them. If I know you, I doubt you'll take him to the pound. You'd be up crying all night for months! It probably means you have to keep an extra firm reign on him and put extra effort into training him. Hopefully nothing will come of that experience in PetSmart and it will be an isolated case. Sounds like this was the first time you got to see his beastie boy side and now you know. I have a good feeling about this, Katia, he just needs to understand these things. Love can do amazing things. Do you know about Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah? It's the largest sanctuary for abused and abandoned animals and they're doing a wonderful thing. They put out a magazine filled with wonderful positive stories about the miracles of love for and from the animals.
Yes, my kitty is well loved and that's a big part of why he's still here. He loves me so completely and sometimes I think he's hanging around because I'm not ready to let him go, but he truly loves living, a happy little spirit who delights in life. He's one of my greatest teachers and his love for me is an honor. He'll go on his terms and it gives me alot of comfort that it will happen when he's truly ready. But when that time comes, there's no pretending that I won't be a total basket case and miss him terribly, cause for the past 14 years he's been the sunshine of my life.
> Hi Barb,
> Do you sleep well enough with just Li. and STJW?
> I've been sleeping like a rock lately. Last night 12 hrs. straight and had the most intense dreams. took me 1/2 hour just to open one eye.
>
> Therefore, I may try and cut back on the Sero. for the moment. Maybe go to 12.5mg now. Those damn pills are so hard to cut. do you use a pill cutter? Mine is so lousy that when I try and take a lower dose it cuts it lop-sided and I end up taking more than I need to.
>
> The pooch fight. I was not worried about my dog so much as the other dog and the consequences of that due to his targeted breed. It was just awful that I've considered finding him another home. I never really chose this. He sort of adopted me by coming over all the time. But yesterday, he sat with his head in my lap while I read and I felt so happy. Like we'd made up after a fight. It's almost ridiculous how humanly emotional this relationship is with him.
> Who knows. I just know I can't afford vet bills of other dogs or worse, like being sued for all I'm worth and own and more.
> I have a sweet loveable dog around humans. But other animals are his prey, like he's a lion or an alligator. It's so much responsibility on me when taking for walks.
> anyway! Glad to hear your kitty is hanging in there - must be all the love s/he receives.
> keep in touch.
> Katia
Posted by katia on July 12, 2004, at 2:18:36
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 11, 2004, at 16:10:29
Hi B-cat,
Yes, exercise is what I need too. Are you just on Li. and SJW now? How much Ambien do you take? Is that OTC? or an RX?No I hadn't heard about that sanctuary.
Sounds great. I've never quite felt so conflicted with a dog before. such a love and (not hate) but frustration and exhaustion. PBs are quite the dog. crawl into your heart like no other and are dynamic creatures. I know! They are like BPs! Have two conflicting and confusing sides to them! and charm their way into the center of your heart with their "good" side. And you don't know whether to love or hate them, but know you love them to death and feel conflicted and confused when feeling anything else for them! I'm on a wild ride with this one. No wonder I haven't felt any inspiration, i haven't had time for it! i feel like a new mother.keep in touch.
k.
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 12, 2004, at 11:33:02
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on July 12, 2004, at 2:18:36
> Yes, exercise is what I need too.
**If I didn't have cats I'd get a dog just for the enforced exercise. Rain or shine, you gotta walk that pooch.
>Are you just on Li. and SJW now? How much Ambien do you take? Is that OTC? or an RX?
**I'm on 600mg Li and 1200 SJW, 1T fish oil. Ambien is prescription. I'm also taking 2G L-taurine twice a day. Supposed to help with bipolar, has anticonvulsant properties. I think it helps calm my brain.I'm reading an interesting book "Depression Free Naturally" by Joan Mathews Larson, PhD. It talks about some of the newest research on mood disorders and offers nutritional ideas. Very interesting.
I was talking to you about going to the Pfeiffer Treatment Center to get a neuro lab workup and get on their regimen. I may go to the Health Recovery Center in Minnesota this Dr. Larson runs instead. Her work is based on Carl Pfeiffer's (who is no longer alive) but I think a bit more up to date. Some of the posts on this board have talked about this.
At any rate, I can't believe how much better I feel not taking Seroquel. I wonder why that happened. SOMETHING happened in my brain so immediately and dramatically that it's worth getting to the root of. It probably would have worn off after a while, but that icky despondent paralyzed feeling was all too familiar. If this one drug can cause such an immediate reaction, other things are doing it too and I want to get to the bottom of it.
About your dog, that conflicted feeling can be so agonizing where there's love/concern/turmoil involved. The unpredictability and ambilvalence triggers all kinds of memories and discomfort within us. Also, there's that huge heart-opening that in itself rocks us to our core, blows our fuses, and stirs up all kinds of things.
My husband had a PB and he was empathizing with your situation (I only told him about the dog, nothing else personal between us). To this day, he loves that dog like no other relationship (she died many years ago). He said that it's weird but other dogs will provoke them, especially the little yappy ones, like they feel they have to prove their machismo. Must be pheromones. I know you've got alot going on in your life, but you might consider going to dog training classes. PBs need alot of tough love, they expect and require it from their 'pack leader'. That's where the training comes in so that they understand what it means to obey their pack leader. He said you can also get him on the floor, straddle his back and grab the skin of his ruff pretty hard to let him know you are the dominant one and his master and say something like 'Listen!'. Do this periodically throughout the day but especially when he's getting ornery at home, sit on him and grab his ruff and say 'Listen!' otherwise it's in their nature to get the upper hand. It gets Pavlovian and you can use the Listen! cue when you're in places where it's not so appropriate to sit on him. Puts you in a different kind of role, huh? Here you are, just trying to maintain and now you're Leader of the Pack. Strange what Life dishes out to us.
You might also take him to a holistic vet and look into homeopathy. One of our cats was going absolutely bizerk this past horrible winter. He was reacting to a new cat we took in who had been abandoned, plus all the crazy wild energy during that time was affecting him badly. Around 9pm he would go totally uncontrollaby wild, eyes dilated, skin got red and inflamed and he'd start attacking all the other cats, and this went on for hours. It was incredibly disruptive and the last thing I needed in my state of mind. Took him to a holistic vet who said 'Ah, I've not seen a clearer case of Belladonna'. Gave him one high-dose remedy and that was it. The change was astounding. I give him boosters of it when he starts acting up again, but it worked. Made me a believer. In the meantime, animals really take to flower essences, especially Rescue Remedy. It's worth a try.
I've tried homeopathy myself and I really think there's something to it, but it's a challenge to find just that right constitutional remedy. And as soon as one works, another layer of stuff gets uncovered that needs a new remedy. Animals aren't quite as complex as we are and usually respond very quickly.
> No I hadn't heard about that sanctuary.
> Sounds great. I've never quite felt so conflicted with a dog before. such a love and (not hate) but frustration and exhaustion. PBs are quite the dog. crawl into your heart like no other and are dynamic creatures. I know! They are like BPs! Have two conflicting and confusing sides to them! and charm their way into the center of your heart with their "good" side. And you don't know whether to love or hate them, but know you love them to death and feel conflicted and confused when feeling anything else for them! I'm on a wild ride with this one. No wonder I haven't felt any inspiration, i haven't had time for it! i feel like a new mother.
>
> keep in touch.
> k.
Posted by katia on July 12, 2004, at 14:02:10
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 12, 2004, at 11:33:02
I might try that Rescue Rememdy.
where do you get it?I may try that "listen" technique. It's so hard for me to do when he's not doing anything wrong. I dole out love and affection much of the time. But I am good at being strict when need be. I was going to go to a training on Sat. we were at the store fitting him for a collar when that happened. He had two black eyes from other people punching him to let go (it was just awful), so I figured the very next day going into a ring of PBs to train would not be a good idea. We'll start with them on the third class at the end of July. I am going out of town and will miss the second. Getting a dog walker is also challenging!!
I don't mind at all what you tell your husband barb.
keep in touch.
katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 12, 2004, at 15:50:27
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on July 12, 2004, at 14:02:10
You can get Rescue Remedy at any healthfood store. It's good for people and animals. It's indicated for shock and trauma, but good for any kind of stress. Nothing dramatic, just smooths things out energetically. I know some hard-core cynics who normally scoff at flower essences who use Rescue Remedy.
As far as the listen, sit and hold, you can do it while playing. The main thing is to straddle him and grab the scruff of the neck. It's a primal thing that dominant animals do to maintain their superiority. Listen! simply serves as the Pavlovian response cue (but don't overuse it, just once or twice loudly and firmly, even affectionately while playing).
Dogs need that pack mentality and even an alpha male (which your's sounds like) will willingly submit to a more dominant animal. Obeying gives their little doggie brains something to do. Allowing you to sit and hold without struggling is the goal here, but he may test you the first few times and try to get the upper hand. But that's all part of the game and he's actually expecting you to be firm - not mean, just firm. He'll love and respect you for it. It also helps them feel more secure (this all goes for dogs - cats could give a rip). It can all be incorporated in the spirit of love and fun and the guidance he really wants.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 12, 2004, at 16:47:40
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on July 12, 2004, at 14:02:10
> I might try that Rescue Rememdy.
> where do you get it?
>
> I may try that "listen" technique...I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding dog training to Psycho-Social-Babble. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040706/msgs/365414.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by TJO on July 13, 2004, at 9:59:03
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 12, 2004, at 15:50:27
> >
> Hi There,
I want to share some of my experiences because I saw that a while back someone was trying to switch from Risperdal to Seroquel and possibly Abilify. I did that exact same thing and have been on Seroquel since last February, on Abilify for about a year, and off of Risperdal completely for about 2 1/2 months (the doctor tapered me off of the Risperdal).
My meds are 1200 Neurontin, 150 Wellbutrin, 700 mg Seroquel, and 30 mg Abilify. I have minimal side effects-just a little dry mouth occasionally. I was very sleepy at the lower dosages of Seroquel, but the sleepiness went away as I went up in dosage.
i can sympathize with the weight problem-I gained about 20 lbs on Risperdal and I am still trying to lose the last 10 lbs of it. I didn't feel like myself at the higher weight.
As far as pets are concerned I have a cat whch I love dearly as long as she is not eating my college Psych homework which she did once.
Are you still considering a med change? If so I'd be glad to answer your questions.
Tammy
Posted by rocketstar911 on July 14, 2004, at 8:42:56
In reply to Seroquel - nope, posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 23:09:33
my boyfriend was depressed and couldn't get a job so we brought him to the mobile outreach place. They gave him this seroquel and no information on the drug. So I told him not to take it untill we found out what it was(I had been through the mistake of being stuck in a mental ward and given 20mg of haldol because I had insomnia) So of course I was weary about him taking something when there was no info. Anyway he took it and laid in bed all day crying and not being able to get out of bed. It was very bad. Now he doesn't deny he has a problem but will not go to any doctors. It kind of seems like they talked to him for ten minutes and gave him something unesseceary and harsh. Like couldn't they give him something less crappy like prozac?
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 13:01:11
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope, posted by rocketstar911 on July 14, 2004, at 8:42:56
That's terrible. Perhaps they felt that he was showing signs of schizophrenia and delusions, which is the only reason I can imagine any urgent care/crisis unit would prescribe seroquel. If he was having psychosis along with his depression, it would make sense, but not if he was 'just depressed' (although I know how horrible just depressed can be). What I'm finding out is that some of us get worse when certain neurotransmitters are affected by these drugs. I, and others, on this board were affected by Seroquel the same way as your boyfriend. I laid around crying for 4 days hoping it would get better. Others seem to sail right on through it and do fine. We're all so different.
What brought me out of it was taking a few capsules of Benedryl, which you can get over the counter. It makes one very sleepy, but it lowers the level of histamines, which Seroquel increases. For me, I'm very sensitive to anything that increases histimines, makes me very depressed and anxious. I suspect this is why I reacted so strongly to Seroquel. This is only a conjecture, but a few nights of Benedryl were helpful and it seems to support this guess.
Perhaps prozac is not the best med for your boyfriend. If he's suffering from bipolar disorder any of the SSRI's, like prozac, could make him alot worse. That's why getting in-depth diagnosis is so important. I hope your boyfriend can come to realize that he just got a bum deal and not all doctors are so irresponsible. I hope you or he can let them know the damage they did to your friend's trust and potentially to his mental health.
In the meantime, fish oil might help him and you alot. I take it in liquid form (otherwise you're swallowing a handful of capsules). I get Carlson's Best Fish Oil from www.iherb.com which has the best prices I've found. It's not an immediate cure but it is a nutrient for the brain and will help heal things. Take care. - Barbara
> my boyfriend was depressed and couldn't get a job so we brought him to the mobile outreach place. They gave him this seroquel and no information on the drug. So I told him not to take it untill we found out what it was(I had been through the mistake of being stuck in a mental ward and given 20mg of haldol because I had insomnia) So of course I was weary about him taking something when there was no info. Anyway he took it and laid in bed all day crying and not being able to get out of bed. It was very bad. Now he doesn't deny he has a problem but will not go to any doctors. It kind of seems like they talked to him for ten minutes and gave him something unesseceary and harsh. Like couldn't they give him something less crappy like prozac?
Posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 13:02:48
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope, posted by rocketstar911 on July 14, 2004, at 8:42:56
Hi,
Sorry to hear about your boyfriend's experience altogether and w/ Seroquel.What it sounds like to me, is that he is depressed and Seroquel made him sedated and then he felt more of the depression. You're right in that it's not an antidepressant. How much did he take?
Sounds like he probably does need to talk more extensively with a professional about it and possibly going on antidepressants or a mood stabilizer combo.
I use Seroquel for sleep at around 25mg.
Katia
Posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 13:07:29
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » rocketstar911, posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 13:01:11
That's interesting that seroquel increases the levels of histamine. And it's interesting that the increase can have opposite effects for people. I can say that Seroquel is sedating for me and if I'm depressed, I do feel a bit more depressed, but it doesn't make me depressed. But then it helps me to sleep GREAT. When I was up/hypo and just taking Seroquel, i felt great. It didn't make me feel down.
I wonder if the histamine increase can have opposite effects in one person whether they are depressed or manic??
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 15:13:50
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope, posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 13:07:29
> I wonder if the histamine increase can have opposite effects in one person whether they are depressed or manic??
**Good question. There are conditions called 'histadelia' (too much histimine) and 'histanemia' (too little) which are coming to light in mood disorders, apparently due to an inability to property metabolize the amino acid histadine. Histamine levels affect everyone, but not as dramatically as in someone with a metabolic defect. Histamine is a neurotransmitter, just not as well known as the other three. The question would be to measure these levels during an up/down phase in bipolars.
There are also different histamine receptors that affect things a little differently. The sleepy quality in trazodone, for instance, is supposedly due to histamine release. I was on traz for years and it put me to sleep. Even though I had the morning woozies from it, I never had the bad depression symtpoms like I got from Seroquel. So I guess it depends on which histamine receptor is getting hit. But don't take this as Gospel, Katia. It's mainly my own theory, helped by Scientist, about what might have caused such dramatic symptoms in me and another babbler. I merely put 2 and 2 together from what I know about histamine causing depression and the monographs that state that Seroquel strongly hits histamine receptors.
What's interesting is that you and I have such different reactions to lithium. I love it and you were zombiefied. You do OK on Seroquel and I hated it. Strange. I have an appointment next week with an MD who specializes in these more exotic areas of physical and mood disorders. I'm really jazzed and hope to God something comes to light. Of course I'll let you know how it goes. - Barbara
Posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 15:44:41
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 15:13:50
Please do let me know. Good luck with that visit.
How's your mood overall now?Mine is so damn hit or miss, I wonder what all these meds are doing anyway? I'm still cycling and irritability "bad nerves", on edge. AND I'm on meds. I wonder about all this. I'm sick of it.
Off to do some shopping therapy.
take good care,
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 16:31:01
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 15:44:41
Hi Katia,
I'm feeling very good. Better than I have in years, in fact (especially after that fiasco with Seroquel). Lithium, St. John's Wort, thyroid and fish oil are my mainstays. I also notice a huge difference when I'm not drinking. It just takes a few snootfuls and the next day I feel like crap. You think I'd learn.Sorry you're feeling bum. It's so frustrating with this med merry-go-round. How long have you been on Paxil? The reason I ask is I wonder if you're going through the good old SSRI poop out?
Posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 20:42:11
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on July 14, 2004, at 16:31:01
> Hi Katia,
> I'm feeling very good. Better than I have in years, in fact (especially after that fiasco with Seroquel). Lithium, St. John's Wort, thyroid and fish oil are my mainstays. I also notice a huge difference when I'm not drinking. It just takes a few snootfuls and the next day I feel like crap. You think I'd learn.
>
> Sorry you're feeling bum. It's so frustrating with this med merry-go-round. How long have you been on Paxil? The reason I ask is I wonder if you're going through the good old SSRI poop out?
Hi Barb,
Yes, I'm alternating between jaggedity intolerance agro confusion and lethargic sadness as though there is something terribly wrong, a sense of dread. The drinking thing would make a difference i know. I've been going at it too much since the house buying and all the stress. I don't get drunk or drink excessively on one sitting, b/t 1-3. But it's consistent enough that I know that's playing a part. The other thing is it gets into a cycle of needing it to feel better and then feel worse.....I started the Paxil about ten weeks ago. I'm only at 12.5mg. I don't know if anything is doing anything. But it has to be doing something. It gets all confusing about what's what and what is doing what. Maybe nothing at all?
GOOD for you for staying away from the swamp juice.
K.
Posted by kmdc on July 21, 2004, at 6:12:38
In reply to Re: hey! im new here, posted by rondavue66 on March 12, 2004, at 9:07:02
> hi, my son is 13y/o old and was resently diagnosed with ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder and cyclothymic. They put him on adderall for adhd and seroquel for sleeping. mainly it's for the cyclothymia.
======
Hi this is an interesting post. I was just diagnosed with Cyclothymia with an "ADHD ruleout". The doc basically said you cant have both. I posted a message on this here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040716/msgs/368512.html
However, it seems that your son has been diagnosed with both of the above and more. Did the doc say anything about counting a particular symptom only towards one disorder?
Posted by Blue Mirror on August 28, 2004, at 23:24:31
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia & mood stabilizers, posted by Andrew on August 8, 1999, at 11:15:37
I have experienced cyclical swings--from quite severe depression to periods (shorter) of elation/creativity/high sexual intensity--for many years. I have never tried lithium as I have found Effexor at 75 mg. a day to have pretty much balanced out the swings. I can't say it "fixes me" entirely, but both extremes are muffled to the extent that I don't lose control or perspective. Good luck.
Posted by fluffy on September 26, 2004, at 17:57:16
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on July 14, 2004, at 20:42:11
Hi everyone,
I wanted to re-connect with this thread, as it has proven to be my main support group. Barb-cat and I had an aside on the social board. Katia--are you still following? How are you doing? I was thinking about all of you this morning.
Well my short-lived experience with abilify was nothing short of a nightmare. Just goes to show that those clinical trials can look downright seductive, but everyones' mileage varies! I had an awful spin-out... First I felt great--I had more energy and spark than I'd felt in years. then I started having awful panic attacks and jagged ups and downs in my moods. When I went off, I ended up in a pile of depression for a couple of weeks.
I tried going back to taking Risperdal, hoping it would get me back to where I was before...at least apathetic is better than suicidal depression, right? Well it didn't help me sleep anymore, and it seemed to stop working altogether.
Now I'm still on that teensy pinch of Risperdal, and taking 12.5 mg of Seroquel. Seroquel is helping me sleep so far. The first day was hell. But it got into my system fast, and boy do I sleep! I'm hoping that if we continue to go up on it, I'll continue to improve. I'm rapid cycling right now, and it's hell. I have 3 good days and 3 bad days a week. I really hope to not fall into my Fall depression this year.
everyone please keep your fingers crossed for me. I'm going through a tough time right now. And I'm scared because i'm at the end of conventional treatment options. I want so desperately to stop rapid cycling!
Update me on y'all's progress...
take care,
katy
Posted by Barbaracat on September 26, 2004, at 20:00:32
In reply to Re: Seroquel - nope, posted by fluffy on September 26, 2004, at 17:57:16
Sorry the Abilify didn't work out, Katy. It's a bummer when you get your hopes up, thinking that maybe this one will make a difference. But when it makes you feel worse, arghh... Listen, here's a simple suggestion but maybe worth trying. Seems to be that the reason Seroquel is such a powerful sleeper is due to it's anti-histimine properties, really targets those histimine receptors. So a trial would be to try some generic benedryl caps - dihydro blah blah, don't remember the full name. Works very well as a sleeper (50-100mg) and some people find their depression responds to such an anti-histamine. If you're taking Seroquel mainly for it's sleepy quality then maybe benedryl will work and you won't be messing with your dopamine? A thought.
How am I? I'm doing so-so, mainly because my physical symptoms from fibromyalgia, or whatever the hell this thing is, are active. I feel tired, bunged up, toxic, and my day/night cycles are weird. Got some labs back and my cortisol is doing strange things, as in my adrenals are making enough cortisol just fine, but the target organ's receptors aren't receiving it. So all my hormones are real real low. I don't know what this means and my Dr., dear fellow, seems like a dunce to me, although he comes highly recommended from reputable sources. Lousy bedside manner is all, I hope. So I dunno what it might mean. But when my energy is too low to drag my butt out for some exercise, my mood disintegrates. So there you have it. I feel like crap.
With all the very serious junk we live breathe and eat, it's surprising anyone is moderately healthy or sane. I don't think I know a single person in that boat (except maybe the Dalai Lama - but can't say I really know him).
So hang in there, girlfriend. We're all going through this for some dang reason. - BCat
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