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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ron1953 on August 28, 2004, at 22:24:34
I'm starting a trial with Parnate tomorrow. There's a lot of contradicting information about foods containing potentially dangerous levels of tyramine. Does anyone have a current and "definitive" list of foods to avoid?
Posted by chemist on August 28, 2004, at 22:31:30
In reply to Parnate food interactions, posted by ron1953 on August 28, 2004, at 22:24:34
> I'm starting a trial with Parnate tomorrow. There's a lot of contradicting information about foods containing potentially dangerous levels of tyramine. Does anyone have a current and "definitive" list of foods to avoid?
hello there, chemist here...there is a link from dr. bob's main page about the MAOI diet:http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/maoi.html
check it out. all the best, chemist
Posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 0:57:26
In reply to Parnate food interactions, posted by ron1953 on August 28, 2004, at 22:24:34
> I'm starting a trial with Parnate tomorrow. There's a lot of contradicting information about foods containing potentially dangerous levels of tyramine. Does anyone have a current and "definitive" list of foods to avoid?
Look in the archives. Many of the "foods you must avoid" are out of date. 80% of reactions are due to aged cheese. Fresh cheeses (e.g. ricotta, mozzarella) and processed cheese are okay. Other things to avoid are aged sausage, beer, shrimp paste, and some other fermented products. Basically you want to avoid aged proteins. Some people have gotten reactions from liver that's been in the fridge too long.
I've done okay by avoiding cheese. Soy products are supposed to be a problem in some people, but I started with a small amount of soy sauce and increased it to see how I tolerated it. Tofu isn't a problem.
You can probably eat pizza from places like Round Table or Domino's because they don't use real cheese or pepperoni. When in doubt, ask. Most cheeseburgers are made with American (processed) cheese.
You also have to avoid many OTC and prescription drugs. Carefully read the labels of any cold, cough, or allergy medications. Ask your doctors about the safety of any other drugs you are taking.
Two caveats: people on Parnate tend to have more reactions than people on other MAOIs, and reactions are individual.
Your pdoc can prescribe nifedipine. I keep some in my purse just in case. It will bring down your BP if necessary.
Posted by TomV on August 30, 2004, at 12:01:18
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 0:57:26
Aged Meats? I'm assumming this means, i.e., packages of sausage right off the supermarket meat shelves? The kind you would eat with pasta? Also, does this include bologna, i.e. hot dogs? I can deal without the aged cheese, but I'm really bummed about "aged meats". Of course my mileage may vary...
TomV
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 14:03:45
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » Ilene, posted by TomV on August 30, 2004, at 12:01:18
> Aged Meats? I'm assumming this means, i.e., packages of sausage right off the supermarket meat shelves? The kind you would eat with pasta? Also, does this include bologna, i.e. hot dogs? I can deal without the aged cheese, but I'm really bummed about "aged meats". Of course my mileage may vary...
>
> TomV
Also, does it include left-overs that have been in the fridge a couple of days?
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 30, 2004, at 14:40:25
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » Ilene, posted by TomV on August 30, 2004, at 12:01:18
zen wants to get in touch, but she's worried about being stalked....I'll act as go-between, okay? Contact me at lhooverca yahoo.ca and I'll hook you up.
Lar
Posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 16:16:34
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » Ilene, posted by TomV on August 30, 2004, at 12:01:18
> Aged Meats? I'm assumming this means, i.e., packages of sausage right off the supermarket meat shelves? The kind you would eat with pasta? Also, does this include bologna, i.e. hot dogs? I can deal without the aged cheese, but I'm really bummed about "aged meats". Of course my mileage may vary...
>
> TomVHot dogs, bologna, and most sausages should be okay. Be careful w/ salami or pepperoni (hard, dry sausages). I don't eat them so I don't know exactly what's okay & what's not. I've eaten various other sausages and aged ham (prosciutto).
Anything aged will advertise that fact.
Posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 16:18:25
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 14:03:45
> Also, does it include left-overs that have been in the fridge a couple of days?
>
>
A couple of days is okay, with the possible exception of liver. I haven't had any problems, but I've always been careful with leftovers anyway. They get pitched after a week.
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » KaraS, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 16:18:25
> > Also, does it include left-overs that have been in the fridge a couple of days?
> >
> >
> A couple of days is okay, with the possible exception of liver. I haven't had any problems, but I've always been careful with leftovers anyway. They get pitched after a week.So you're saying that leftovers that include meat are ok up to a week old? I usually toss on the 4th day but I just want to make sure I'm understanding you completely.
Thanks!
Posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 18:04:26
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » Ilene, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 17:42:16
> So you're saying that leftovers that include meat are ok up to a week old? I usually toss on the 4th day but I just want to make sure I'm understanding you completely.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
I keep food for a week. Haven't had a problem. However, I'm taking Marplan, not Parnate, and I've read that Parnate is slightly more likely to cause problems than the other MAOIs.
Posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 20:34:58
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » KaraS, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 18:04:26
> > So you're saying that leftovers that include meat are ok up to a week old? I usually toss on the 4th day but I just want to make sure I'm understanding you completely.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> I keep food for a week. Haven't had a problem. However, I'm taking Marplan, not Parnate, and I've read that Parnate is slightly more likely to cause problems than the other MAOIs.
Thanks. As an aside, have you ever taken Parnate or Nardil? If so, how would you compare all of them? They're all meds that I'm considering right now. I think I'm leaning towards Marplan to try first (if I don't try Cymbalta before that) but there's a lot less info on it out there than of the other two. I wonder why it isn't used more? Have you been on it long? Have you had much success with it?(Hope you don't mind my drilling you like that.)
Kara
Posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 20:39:25
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » KaraS, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 18:04:26
I make my hubby eat the leftovers if they are still around after about 3 days. :)
But I have to stay vigilant about tossing stuff after they are too old, as he will eat stuff that is really old. Very poor sense of smell, and bad memory about when I made something...:)
Good luck to you.
gg
Posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 21:19:19
In reply to Re: Marplan » Ilene, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 20:34:58
Excuse me for stepping in. Cymbalta was recently approved by the FDA. That's why you haven't heard much about it. It's a SNRI, similar to Effexor. From what I've read and heard so far, its effects and side-effects are comparible to Effexor. Hope this info is helpful.
Posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 23:21:00
In reply to Re: Marplan » Ilene, posted by KaraS on August 30, 2004, at 20:34:58
> Thanks. As an aside, have you ever taken Parnate or Nardil? If so, how would you compare all of them? They're all meds that I'm considering right now. I think I'm leaning towards Marplan to try first (if I don't try Cymbalta before that) but there's a lot less info on it out there than of the other two. I wonder why it isn't used more? Have you been on it long? Have you had much success with it?
>
> (Hope you don't mind my drilling you like that.)
>
> KaraMarplan is the only MAOI I've tried. I chose it because its SE profile was between Parnate and Nardil (not as activating as Parnate, not as sedating as Nardil, etc.). I've been on it since about February. I've had moderate success on it. I just saw a new pdoc, and we're going to raise my dosage from 40 mg. to 50 or 60 mg. before giving up on it. I found I needed to augment w/ thyroid hormone to get much effect from it.
I think it's not as well-known as the other two because it was off the market for a while, then re-marketed by a different company.
I don't mind all the questions. That's why we're all here on PB, isn't it?
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 0:10:55
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions, posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 20:39:25
> I make my hubby eat the leftovers if they are still around after about 3 days. :)
>
> But I have to stay vigilant about tossing stuff after they are too old, as he will eat stuff that is really old. Very poor sense of smell, and bad memory about when I made something...:)
>
> Good luck to you.
> ggThanks. That's funny about your husaband. (Men can be so helpless sometimes, can't they?)
-K
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 0:14:19
In reply to Re: Marplan » KaraS, posted by ron1953 on August 30, 2004, at 21:19:19
> Excuse me for stepping in. Cymbalta was recently approved by the FDA. That's why you haven't heard much about it. It's a SNRI, similar to Effexor. From what I've read and heard so far, its effects and side-effects are comparible to Effexor. Hope this info is helpful.
Actually, I meant that I hadn't heard much about Marplan. Guess I didn't make that very clear. Thanks anyway!
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 0:23:05
In reply to Re: Marplan » KaraS, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 23:21:00
> > Thanks. As an aside, have you ever taken Parnate or Nardil? If so, how would you compare all of them? They're all meds that I'm considering right now. I think I'm leaning towards Marplan to try first (if I don't try Cymbalta before that) but there's a lot less info on it out there than of the other two. I wonder why it isn't used more? Have you been on it long? Have you had much success with it?
> >
> > (Hope you don't mind my drilling you like that.)
> >
> > Kara
>
> Marplan is the only MAOI I've tried. I chose it because its SE profile was between Parnate and Nardil (not as activating as Parnate, not as sedating as Nardil, etc.). I've been on it since about February. I've had moderate success on it. I just saw a new pdoc, and we're going to raise my dosage from 40 mg. to 50 or 60 mg. before giving up on it. I found I needed to augment w/ thyroid hormone to get much effect from it.
>
> I think it's not as well-known as the other two because it was off the market for a while, then re-marketed by a different company.
>
> I don't mind all the questions. That's why we're all here on PB, isn't it?
That was my thinking - that it might be good for me now because it's between Nardil and Parnate in side effect profile. I'll be curious to see what happens when you increase your dosage. I hope it works for you.Thanks again,
Kara
Posted by Piquet on August 31, 2004, at 6:35:50
In reply to Re: Marplan » KaraS, posted by Ilene on August 30, 2004, at 23:21:00
> > Thanks. As an aside, have you ever taken Parnate or Nardil? If so, how would you compare all of them? They're all meds that I'm considering right now. I think I'm leaning towards Marplan to try first (if I don't try Cymbalta before that) but there's a lot less info on it out there than of the other two. I wonder why it isn't used more? Have you been on it long? Have you had much success with it?
> >
> > (Hope you don't mind my drilling you like that.)
> >
> > Kara
>
> Marplan is the only MAOI I've tried. I chose it because its SE profile was between Parnate and Nardil (not as activating as Parnate, not as sedating as Nardil, etc.). I've been on it since about February. I've had moderate success on it. I just saw a new pdoc, and we're going to raise my dosage from 40 mg. to 50 or 60 mg. before giving up on it. I found I needed to augment w/ thyroid hormone to get much effect from it.
>
> I think it's not as well-known as the other two because it was off the market for a while, then re-marketed by a different company.
>
> I don't mind all the questions. That's why we're all here on PB, isn't it?Hi Ilene,
When I took Nardil, 45 mg was seen as pretty much the minimum therapeutic dose, and I'm currently taking Parnate, where I believe 40 mg is an acceptable level -- although as a treatment resistant career depressive I'm currently taking 60 mg. Of course, everyone's mileage varies. I was wondering if you know what the perceived low, standard and high dosages are for Marplan? Thanks for your consideration.
Piquet.
Posted by Dave001 on August 31, 2004, at 8:06:49
In reply to Parnate food interactions, posted by ron1953 on August 28, 2004, at 22:24:34
> I'm starting a trial with Parnate tomorrow. There's a lot of contradicting information about foods containing potentially dangerous levels of tyramine. Does anyone have a current and "definitive" list of foods to avoid?
There is no such thing. Nothing is absolute. Remember that you're not going to have 100% inhibition of MAO, so your body can still metabolize these amines, but at a slower rate. The important consideration is the amount. No foods are dangerous if the amount is small enough, so the key is to very slowly titrate upwards while learning how you respond. I'm no longer on Parnate, but at one point I was taking 80 mg of Parnate + 30 mg Dexedrine/day, and there was never anything I couldn't eat. I never felt any symptoms even mildly resembling an acute bout of hypertension.
Good luck.
Posted by Ilene on August 31, 2004, at 12:01:48
In reply to Re: Marplan, posted by Piquet on August 31, 2004, at 6:35:50
> Hi Ilene,
>
> When I took Nardil, 45 mg was seen as pretty much the minimum therapeutic dose, and I'm currently taking Parnate, where I believe 40 mg is an acceptable level -- although as a treatment resistant career depressive I'm currently taking 60 mg. Of course, everyone's mileage varies. I was wondering if you know what the perceived low, standard and high dosages are for Marplan? Thanks for your consideration.
>
> Piquet.
>
>
>
Standard dose is 40 mg., high is 60 mg.
Posted by Ilene on August 31, 2004, at 12:06:11
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions, posted by Dave001 on August 31, 2004, at 8:06:49
> There is no such thing. Nothing is absolute. Remember that you're not going to have 100% inhibition of MAO, so your body can still metabolize these amines, but at a slower rate. The important consideration is the amount. No foods are dangerous if the amount is small enough, so the key is to very slowly titrate upwards while learning how you respond. I'm no longer on Parnate, but at one point I was taking 80 mg of Parnate + 30 mg Dexedrine/day, and there was never anything I couldn't eat. I never felt any symptoms even mildly resembling an acute bout of hypertension.
>
> Good luck.That's an unusual combination--MAOIs are supposed to be incompatible w/ stimulants.
It's true what you say about titrating up. That's what I did with soy sauce. What I've read about cheese made me decide to avoid it entirely, though. There's no way to tell how much tyramine there is in a particular piece of cheese.
Posted by zenhussy on August 31, 2004, at 12:38:27
In reply to Re: Parnate food interactions » Ilene, posted by TomV on August 30, 2004, at 12:01:18
Hey Tom,
Larry put a holler out to you for me. I found a safe(er) address to put out there if you wanted to contact me. I have some specific meds and therapy questions from reading through the archives.
babblehussy at rattlebrain dot com
Thanks.
--zhP.S. THanks Larry for posting......I finally figured out how to create a safe(er) addy to use.
Posted by Piquet on September 1, 2004, at 13:39:54
In reply to Re: Marplan » Piquet, posted by Ilene on August 31, 2004, at 12:01:48
Posted by TomV on September 1, 2004, at 21:17:32
In reply to Re: Searching for Tom V, posted by zenhussy on August 31, 2004, at 12:38:27
> Hey Tom,
>
> Larry put a holler out to you for me. I found a safe(er) address to put out there if you wanted to contact me. I have some specific meds and therapy questions from reading through the archives.
>
> babblehussy at rattlebrain dot com
>
> Thanks.
> --zh
>
> P.S. THanks Larry for posting......I finally figured out how to create a safe(er) addy to use.Sorry I haven't responded sooner but..., I don't privately communicate through email with people I meet on public boards.
I'd be happy to hear about anything you wish to communciate here. Please don't take this personally.
Tom
Posted by gardenergirl on September 1, 2004, at 21:28:37
In reply to Re: Searching for Tom V » zenhussy, posted by TomV on September 1, 2004, at 21:17:32
Tom V,
Forgive me for stepping in for Zen...not that I could fill her shoes, but she has been blocked for 48 weeks since she posted this. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.gg
This is the end of the thread.
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