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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by utopizen on September 16, 2004, at 20:16:38
If only Adderall worked the way it worked before I got depressed... shucks. =(
Posted by richconn81 on September 16, 2004, at 23:05:30
In reply to Depression-induced Adderall burnout, posted by utopizen on September 16, 2004, at 20:16:38
> If only Adderall worked the way it worked before I got depressed... shucks. =(
I had the opposite experience. When I was depressed adderall worked great. I stopped it for some reason. Then when i finnaly started to come out of my depression a year later I started adderall again to help me in college. I took my first does, 10 mg, anticiapting that euphoria I use to experence but i hardly felt it at all. Even high doses don't work. I wish I knew how I got this sudden resisstance to stimulants...shucks indeed
Posted by Mindreseacher on September 17, 2004, at 5:04:53
In reply to Depression-induced Adderall burnout, posted by utopizen on September 16, 2004, at 20:16:38
Hi , just checked out your post. Since iv been posting for the last week on amphetamines, i feel im gathering information, but its confusing. You say adderal made you depressed!
Well for me, I guess it was the drug for ADD i needed. For yrs i focued on serotonin and gaba meds, with not much luck, now im looking at ADD, and dopamine. I know dopamine you have to be carefull in addiction problems, but adderall, just makes me so motivated, social, mood boost, doing 10 hrs a day online.THe problem is burnout. At 90mg a day, which is a bit high , im still getting the Add effects, but they have diminished, well the feeling, 70 percent since i started. I took off 10 days, and basically was a useless, walking zombie, coffee, epherine,even did nothing.
SO, i have acess to Ritalin. Ritalin, which is not an amphetamine, but methylphenidate, is a bit different pathay, on dopamine , thus blocking the reuptake. AMphetamines cause the release of stored dopamine.
HERE is a few questions for any neuro heads that may be able to give me adivse?
Now amphetamine Release dopamine and NE from the synapse. So if there is not enough dopamine build up or srored, the effects wont be as potent. OR if your receptors are downregulated.
Ritalin, which block the reuptake of DOpamine, and NE. Which in theory is causing more neurotransmintters to be floating around in the synaptic cleft. Now if you added a dose of adderall, would this give you an added punch, like say taking ritalin at first to reuptake the DA, then hrs later , take adderall to release the da.
I have this theory i imagine that if im using adderall, for weeks over, , there comes a time where say amphetamine are not releasing enought"stored Dopamine" because there is not enough reuptaken or blocked? So taking say 15mg of Ritalin to block the reuptake, and then tak adderall later would provide a better effect. NOw at least i emphazsies, i would cut down the dose of one, say instead of adderall 30mg , i would lower it down to 15mg. THen take 20mg of adderall. ( for example, wake up and take an adderall. After say 1 or 2 hrs, take the 15mg of adderall, wwhich would release the stored "reutaken dopamine. OR am i wrong, in that it releases the dopamine only into the synapse, so after that, its up to ritalin?
Confusing yes. THen i figure taking 1 or 2 dopamine agonists " natural dopamine producers like NAda, Dopa poppers, L-Tyrosine etc. THis would make dopamine , causing more to be available to be released or reuptaken. But, this method may be risky, mixing Adderall and Ritalin, due tothe fact methamphetamine acts like this. I dont need a dependency on both.
But i find Ritalin does not give me the social effect, just moresoe study ability and concentraction. ANd a little too much i get anxious, so i make sure i take at least upto 1mg of konopin.Ok to try to simplify things. Pretend you have two balloons. both are blown up. THe ends are the synapse where the pre synaptic nerve, and the other is the post. In the middle is the synapse. So say you let some air out of the first ballon, which would be the neurotransmitters. Now, you have ritalin working to block this doapmines reuptake, so you will have more dopamine between the two ends of the balloons. NOw, admineristing adderall, after about 1 hr, would i suspect release the stored dopaine into the second ballon. But after repeated dosing, dopamine shortage may be an issue but this is where the supplementation comes in to refuel dopamine just like 5-htp would serotonin.
I actually take 50mg of 5htp with a low dos eof lexapro, and works fine. I figured, the 5htpis producing serotonin, and releasing it into the presynapse, as its released into the synaptic cleft, it gets blocked or repuptaken by lexapro. Now this is only 10mg of lex and 50mg of 5htp. Not a high dose of either. But you dont feel anyting, just not depressed, and i probaly could go up to 20mg of lexapro and or 100mg of 5htp.With dopamne, esp when its being released from the Neucleus accumens you will feel the stimulated feeling. although a pleasure able one. NOt like ephedrine where you get very racy, anxious, HR inceased etc.
number 1. I cannot just stop adderall, sicne i was just give my dose 10 days ago. second, i stopped on tuesday, and took 2 days off. now will resume tomorrow. If i find 30mg is still not working to par, i may lower the dose and take some ritalin, just to see if it makes a difference. IF i have bad results, ill just stop and learn it doesnt work..
Sorry if i didnt make sence or im trying to hard to think what to do. I can always post on some psychopham board and get some advise.
thank you
mindresearch
Posted by utopizen on September 17, 2004, at 6:50:24
In reply to Re: Depression-induced Adderall burnout, posted by Mindreseacher on September 17, 2004, at 5:04:53
I just read your post. Your writing indicates you are on a bit too high of a dose. I'm worried for you. Hang in there.
Posted by jlbl2l on September 17, 2004, at 10:17:27
In reply to Re: Depression-induced Adderall burnout, posted by Mindreseacher on September 17, 2004, at 5:04:53
ritalin in higher doses also causes the release of stored dopamine though so you have to be careful.
Posted by mindreseacher on September 19, 2004, at 1:31:55
In reply to Re: Depression-induced Adderall burnout » Mindreseacher, posted by jlbl2l on September 17, 2004, at 10:17:27
Hi guys, i really thank you fo rcaring. SOme people just say rude stuff, and i hate that. THis forum is great for infomation and has helped me.
ANyway, i was checking out a specific add forum and i found a bunch of persons who were taking up to 90mg. Actually, the one person, who seemed very smart at add and meds, told me that, im not addicted more so, that because of my ADD, it may be very severe and when the adderall wears off, the sypmtoms start to reappear and the problem is more so dopamine or NE. Now if i was taking like 60-90 all at once, then there may be a problem. But if you think about it, if im up for 16-18 hrs, and take 30mg which peak blood levels are between 3-5 i just found out, that is basically 15 hrs. So, by the time the adderall is wearing off, i take another dose, and it wont over lap the full effect. Now i did one time take 30mg of adderall and 30mg of ritalin, and i became very shaky and panicy. I quickly had to take 1.5mg of klonopin. After about 1 hrs, i actually feel asleep, but this was 2 months ago, so i know not to take more than 30.WHat im going to do is ask my doc for a med like welbutrin, which may potentiate it a bit. Welbutrin is not that strong dopamine wise, and at a lower dose, it should work fine. Welbutrin is the only FDA med i know of that is close to dopamine reuptake. Besides mayo's or other meds that are not really marketed like bromocriptine.
TOday, i actually got up at 12 noon, took 30mg of adderall. 5mp i took another 30mg. Now i do not feel this anymore but i know its working because im still doing things, concentrating.
To be straight, I think that first few days feeling, which is semi euphoric or at least you feel really good, wears off, so a user would get disappointed and think the med is not working.
Well usuallly my doctors appointment is once a month , like on the 5th. So i try and like cut down to just 30 a day 2x just for 5 days to get some tolerance back, if i stop cold, im in bed for 5 days.
geno
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