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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:44:53
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 16:18:15
Please go back and do a search of the archives for this - several folks have posted info about this in the past. I never tried this, so I personally have no idea if it works. It might be a good idea to discuss this with your pharmacist, too.
> I have read a lot of posts about tapering and "cutting the pills". My effexor is in caplets (I think...plastic containers with little particles inside them). Is there some way to open these up and separate the contents? I have a whole bunch of 75mg that I am supposed to start next week, but I would rather stick to 37.5 for a while (what I am on now). Is it ok to dissolve the effexor in water or mix it in food or something instead of just taking the whole capsule?
Posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:46:10
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 11:59:00
I'm not totally sure I understand your question. Are you going BACK up to 75 from 37.5, or are you newly going up to 75 from 37.5?
> Maybe I should quit reading these posts...they are freaking me out! I think i posted this elsewhere, but here it is again.
>
> Anyone out there on a low dose (75mg) of effexor? I've been on 37.5 for 3 days, working up to 75 max. Right now I am jittery and can't concentrate, but I am quite happy, albeit in a "high" sort of way. I am tempted to just stay at 37.5 forever! Anyway, do you think that coming off of 75mg will be as much a problem as coming off of higher doses or does the amount not matter?
>
> Should I get off now before it's too late????
Posted by jujube on September 23, 2004, at 19:56:49
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable » jujube, posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:41:42
Thanks for the advice. I am just enjoying each good moment I have, and accepting the bad ones when they come. It is just such a relief to start feeling something again after almost 6 months in an Effexor-induced fog of apathy and lack of motivation.
> >>I am starting to feel enthusiastic and motivated again, and it's almost scaring me (weird?).<<
>
> Not weird at all!! With all of the ups and downs of the medication and what the medication is treating, it is hard to trust what mental-emotion and physical-emotion (there is a difference) you are feeling at any given time. Enjoy the feelings, but take everything day-to-day.
Posted by jujube on September 23, 2004, at 19:59:53
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable » jujube, posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:43:11
Thanks for the response. I actually thought I was going crazy about two weeks after getting the shot. Then I did some research on the net, and found out that thousands of women have suffered really bad side effects (much worse than my daily barfing, fatigue and low mood) on the stuff. Supposed to get my next shot on October 20. Needless to say, I won't be going.
> Depo provera was tough on my sister. It really threw her body into a tailspin. Hormones are fickle little things that don't like to be bumped :-).
>
> > Thanks for the response. I think I am scared (in a good way), that I am actually starting to feel like myself again and that I am actually starting to feel something again (I am even enjoying feeling pissed off and irritable. Man, am I warped). I am still a bit anxious and nervous, but it has only been 2 weeks since I stopped the Effexor and started the Celexa (1st week at 10 mg then up to 20 mg). I don't think I am experiencing europhia or hypomania, but I just have the urge to do a "happy" dance. After almost a year of suffering the physical and emotional effects of iron deficiency (actually had to take a number of months off work where I had been working long hours because I was not responding to treatment, and my iron levels would not budge. Luckily, I had tons and tons of accumlated leave since I rarely get sick), then a bad reaction in August to my first Depo Provera shot, I think I may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know if you have ever felt this way before, but there were times today that I actually felt like crying I was so happy to be feeling somewhat happy.
> >
> > > Join the club. And what's wrong with being weird? Actually, we are quite entertaining people when we are ourselves. Yeah for You!
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by dbh on September 23, 2004, at 20:03:55
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable » jujube, posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:41:42
I called my doctor today to make an appointment to discuss getting off the Effexor XR I have been taking for about three years. Then I did a search for "effexor withdrawal symptoms" and came across this thread. Pretty scary stuff!
I know that I feel "weird" when I miss a 75mg dose, but I never imagined getting off it would be such an ordeal. I assumed I would just stop taking it. Good thing I "asked" before going "cold turkey".
Posted by Dave001 on September 23, 2004, at 23:17:13
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by AIK on September 23, 2004, at 10:49:26
> In response to Dave stating that looking for someone to sue is wrong and/or a knee jerk reaction, I would like you to consider the following analogy. A vehicle manufacturer such as GM or Ford produces thousands of vehicles a year. If they receive reports of a defect that may occur in less than 1% of a particular model that may cause personal injury they issue a recall and repair the defect on all potentially affected vehicles. If they didn't issue a recall they would be sued for neglegence for not notifying the consumer and be ordered to pay damages. Many people posting on this thread are experiencing similar severe withdrawal symptoms after taking Effexor. Unfortunately Wyeth does not acknowledge this in their product literature or inform physicans or pharmacists of these effects upon withdrawal of this drug so that they may properly counsel and inform their patients of these potential effects. The main premise of this lawsuit is to get Wyeth to educate health professionals of potential severe withdrawal and addiction to Effexor so they may pass this on to their patients so they themselves can make an informed decision to use Effexor. Withholding this information from health professionals and patients is NEGLEGENCE. It is sad that a car salesman is given more information about his product than a health professional.
>Of course, negligent behavior such as concealing information that could represent a potential health-hazard should be aggressively prosecuted. For example, if it were later discovered that a pharmaceutical company had deliberately suppressed results from preclinical studies that showed a significantly increased incidence of liver tumors compared to controls, that's negligence.
However, I don't see how that has any relation to Effexor. All drugs can have withdrawal effects, the extent of which can only be estimated after it has been used by enough people for enough time. Do you have any evidence that Wyeth has secretly withheld internal knowledge of an unusually dangerous withdrawal syndrome associated with Effexor that the rest of the world doesn't have access to?
Dave
Posted by Dave001 on September 23, 2004, at 23:32:02
In reply to Re: Effexor withdrawal symptoms! Lawsuit » Dave001, posted by Bubblehead on September 22, 2004, at 9:45:04
<snip>
> Dave, I also was on 450mg of Effexor. Let me tell you, on the Effexor I was completely emotionless. I was dead to feeling. Imagine what that does to your life and your family...relationships suffer greatly!!! Add all the side effects and you have yourself a cocktail for a lower depression than you realize; except you are so numb, you can't do a thing about it. You are so dead, you can't even kill yourself if you were to try. Now, remove the Effexor because of all the problems from it and you just opened yourself a gateway to Hell. Keep in mind, this all could have been avoided "IF" I was properly informed about this medicine. Would that not make you want to "blame" someone and possibly "help" others along the way?
>
> I'm sorry for getting upset Dave. No, I take that back. I'm not sorry. What I am sorry of, is that you either did not know all of this OR you simply are really that harsh. I hope it is the first.
>Look, it's not that I don't feel bad for anyone suffering from Effexor withdrawal; I do. My point was merely that that doesn't necessarily mean some one is to blame. Taking powerful psychotropic medications has inherent risks to it, many of which are impossible to predict in a given individual.
Dave
Posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 0:37:39
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 16:18:15
> I have read a lot of posts about tapering and "cutting the pills". My effexor is in caplets (I think...plastic containers with little particles inside them). Is there some way to open these up and separate the contents? I have a whole bunch of 75mg that I am supposed to start next week, but I would rather stick to 37.5 for a while (what I am on now). Is it ok to dissolve the effexor in water or mix it in food or something instead of just taking the whole capsule?
If I were concerned about withdrawal from Effexor, this is what I would do: check a recent copy of the Merck Index to find out the solubility of venlafaxine. Choose an appropriate solvent and dissolve the contents of the capsules into a solution from which you can easily measure precise
amounts. By using a lot of solvent, you could make it easy to dispense doses with a reasonable accuracy of +/- 1/mg. I would probably fill a 100 ml graduated cylinder with the solution, and then use that to prefill syringes (you can get oral syringes from the supermarket) with the desired amounts for each day. For obvious reasons the most you would need per day in a solution would be < 37.5 mg if you have 37.5 mg caps, or < 75 mg if you have 75 mg caps. Don't know the stability of venlafaxine but you should refrigerate the solution, and preferably use something other than water.I doubt you would notice any withdrawal symptoms if you reduced the dose by 1 mg/day. If there's no pressing need to discontinue the drug, why not? :-)
Dave
Posted by Jiggitykid on September 24, 2004, at 7:57:37
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 0:37:39
I'm curious, Dave. Do you work for Wyeth?
> > I have read a lot of posts about tapering and "cutting the pills". My effexor is in caplets (I think...plastic containers with little particles inside them). Is there some way to open these up and separate the contents? I have a whole bunch of 75mg that I am supposed to start next week, but I would rather stick to 37.5 for a while (what I am on now). Is it ok to dissolve the effexor in water or mix it in food or something instead of just taking the whole capsule?
>
> If I were concerned about withdrawal from Effexor, this is what I would do: check a recent copy of the Merck Index to find out the solubility of venlafaxine. Choose an appropriate solvent and dissolve the contents of the capsules into a solution from which you can easily measure precise
> amounts. By using a lot of solvent, you could make it easy to dispense doses with a reasonable accuracy of +/- 1/mg. I would probably fill a 100 ml graduated cylinder with the solution, and then use that to prefill syringes (you can get oral syringes from the supermarket) with the desired amounts for each day. For obvious reasons the most you would need per day in a solution would be < 37.5 mg if you have 37.5 mg caps, or < 75 mg if you have 75 mg caps. Don't know the stability of venlafaxine but you should refrigerate the solution, and preferably use something other than water.
>
> I doubt you would notice any withdrawal symptoms if you reduced the dose by 1 mg/day. If there's no pressing need to discontinue the drug, why not? :-)
>
> Dave
Posted by ants on September 24, 2004, at 10:31:59
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable » ants, posted by Jiggitykid on September 23, 2004, at 19:46:10
I am going up to 75mg for the first time.
Posted by AIK on September 24, 2004, at 11:36:54
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 16:18:15
Is your doctor aware that you are not going to be taking the 75mg and remain at 37.5mg? The tablets have a scored line in which helps to them break in half and are immediate release. The capsules, however, are extended release (that's why they are in a capsule with little white balls). Do not assume that half of what is inside of a capsule is half of the dosage. Don't be fooling around with stuff on your own without consulting your doctor and pharmacist.
Posted by Jiggitykid on September 24, 2004, at 14:33:45
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable, posted by ants on September 24, 2004, at 10:31:59
This is something that only you and your doctor are qualified to decide. I'm curious as to why you are going up on the dose, if you feel that the 37.5 is working?
> I am going up to 75mg for the first time.
Posted by kananee on September 24, 2004, at 14:53:36
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by ants on September 23, 2004, at 16:18:15
Several people on this post have taken the capsules apart and painstakingly sorted out the little particles into 1/2, 1/4 etc. They stated that splitting up the particles in the capsules in this manner worked for them. But my psydoc told me not to do this, saying it doesn't work the same. So I'm chiming in w/Jiggetykid -- don't do anything like that without consulting with a knowledgeable pharmacist.
> I have read a lot of posts about tapering and "cutting the pills". My effexor is in caplets (I think...plastic containers with little particles inside them). Is there some way to open these up and separate the contents? I have a whole bunch of 75mg that I am supposed to start next week, but I would rather stick to 37.5 for a while (what I am on now). Is it ok to dissolve the effexor in water or mix it in food or something instead of just taking the whole capsule?
Posted by ants on September 24, 2004, at 15:39:53
In reply to Re: effexor withdrawal inevitable » ants, posted by Jiggitykid on September 24, 2004, at 14:33:45
well I am only on 37.5 to get started on effexor. My doctor didn't think it would be enough. I don't know if he actually thought abotu it that much, actually, but I am pretty sensitive to any medication-pretty much I got through my first 23 years of life only ever taking a Tylenol-so I am thinking maybe 37.5 will be enough.
I talked to a nurse at my doc's office, and she said to go ahead up to 75 next week and if it doesn't seem like it is much different or better than the 37.5 then I can come back down. I think she is thinking I won't know if its working until it is, as many people on this site have mentioned.
Thanks so much for the replies! I was totally freaking out yesterday, as this is my first anti-depressant experience, but I think it is going to be good for me.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 24, 2004, at 15:52:42
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Bubblehead on September 23, 2004, at 9:57:01
Posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 17:33:48
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » Dave001, posted by Jiggitykid on September 24, 2004, at 7:57:37
> I'm curious, Dave. Do you work for Wyeth?
Heavens no. Why do you ask?
Dave
<snip>
Posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 17:56:41
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dave001 » Bubblehead, posted by Dr. Bob on September 22, 2004, at 16:35:20
<snip>
> > You are just the type of person I do not want working for these pharmacy companies. All you see is the growth for the drugs and not the damage of the people being used as guinea pigs.
> >
> > Bubblehead
>
> Please don't jump to conclusions about others or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.I apologize for not redirecting this post to administration, but I am concerned that other members of this thread will not see it if I were to do so.
I want to make it clear that I would prefer that people not feel like they're walking on egg shells when posting to me, so if there is any way for you to "exempt" those whom you feel are being uncivilized toward me from suspension, it would be nice. I would hate for anyone to get suspended on account of giving it to me straight what is their mind. I am not offended by comments like the above at all, although critism that challenges one's ideas is more productive and thought-provoking.
Dave
Posted by kananee on September 24, 2004, at 21:00:51
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 17:33:48
Hmmmmm.....I wanted to ask the same question. Why one might think Dave has a connection with Wyeth seems reasonable given the content and tone of his first two posts. I guess I'm also wondering -- given Dave's point of view and the amazing statement that he had no withdrawal symptoms -- why he would post on a board that's all about Effexor's horrible withdrawal symptoms
> > I'm curious, Dave. Do you work for Wyeth?
>
> Heavens no. Why do you ask?
>
> Dave
>
> <snip>
Posted by Dave001 on September 25, 2004, at 17:40:23
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » Dave001, posted by kananee on September 24, 2004, at 21:00:51
> Hmmmmm.....I wanted to ask the same question. Why one might think Dave has a connection with Wyeth seems reasonable given the content and tone of his first two posts. I guess I'm also wondering -- given Dave's point of view and the amazing statement that he had no withdrawal symptoms -- why he would post on a board that's all about Effexor's horrible withdrawal symptoms
1.) Look at my posting history.
2.) There is no correlation between Wyeth stock prices and Effexor posts at dr-bob.org.
3.) It would be the world's most inefficient marketing strategy.
4.) Law of the vocal minority, and absent majority dictates that those whom experience unusually bad side-effects or withdrawal from Effexor are most likely to complain about unusually bad side-effects or withdrawal from Effexor than those who did not experience adverse effects -- at least not to nearly the same magnitude. This isn't a new phenomenon; just look at the number of anti [insert drug name/class] web sites. You have your "Prozac survivors," your anti-benzo, anti-stimulant, anti-Effexor, and anti-GHB groups; the list goes on an on... Extrapolating statistics from only one cohort does not produce objective results.
Posted by dbh on September 25, 2004, at 19:22:11
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » kananee, posted by Dave001 on September 25, 2004, at 17:40:23
In item #4 you imply that the majority of those who stop taking Effexor do NOT experience side-effects. I hope this is true, and that I am among the majority who don't. I hope to start weaning myself off 75mg per day Effexor XR this next week, after consulting with my family physician.
Posted by Jiggitykid on September 25, 2004, at 19:25:52
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q, posted by dbh on September 25, 2004, at 19:22:11
I hope you are one who doesn't. Please post and let us know.
> In item #4 you imply that the majority of those who stop taking Effexor do NOT experience side-effects. I hope this is true, and that I am among the majority who don't. I hope to start weaning myself off 75mg per day Effexor XR this next week, after consulting with my family physician.
Posted by Jiggitykid on September 25, 2004, at 19:42:16
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » kananee, posted by Dave001 on September 25, 2004, at 17:40:23
No one has brought up stock prices. It was mentioned, first by me, because you seem so ready to defend the drug. Also, how do you know that those who experience this awful withdrawal are indeed, a minority? Do you have proof of that? Do you have proof that the majority of people who take it have no problems? Or perhaps, could it be that most folks think they have a month-long flu or are having heart or neurological problems, like so many of us were told by physicians, until we came here and connected the dots? What makes people who have struggled or are struggling through this so angry and hurt (and unless you have been there, you CANNOT know or even begin to sympathize) is the patronizing tone of the posts, whether intended or not. Perhaps you truly are here to show both sides of the issue, but the feeling those of us who have been to hell and back get is that you are saying, "Hush now, your experience isn't all that important, so shut up."
Odds are you are a very nice person and are not intending to express this, but this is exactly how it is coming across. Your posts make it sound as if those of us who are trying to 1)heal, 2)share experiences and 3) help others through this horrible withdrawal are nothing but big babies who won't take responsibility for our lives. Sir, that is so far from the truth. Needing treatment for depression can be a touchy subject because of the social stigma of any kind of mental illness, but to have someone come in and imply that we are hot-headed, immature whiners who blame others for our problems is nothing short of spitting in our faces. Can you see why your posts stir up so much anger?
Because of my personal experience and my desire that no one else suffer the way I did, of course I'd like to see the drug at the bottom of the ocean. But practically, I do realize that for some, and in my mind a MINORITY, it does work, and taking it off the market isn't the right idea. What I want, and what the petition says, is for the drug company to reveal the information about the addictive properties of the drug and the withdrawal that it can/does cause. Funny how asking for a corporation to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for something that it does/produces seems to illicit a response that we are not taking responsibility for our lives.
Would we be here, sharing information and supporting each other, if we weren't responsible? Would we be trying to encourage others to get well and sharing how we are healing if we weren't responsible? You know nothing about our lives, and to imply what your original post in response to the class-action post did (which was more than imply, you stated) is insulting. You requested immunity for those who answered your questions about your post; I can only hope that applies to me. You asked for the truth - you have it.
> > Hmmmmm.....I wanted to ask the same question. Why one might think Dave has a connection with Wyeth seems reasonable given the content and tone of his first two posts. I guess I'm also wondering -- given Dave's point of view and the amazing statement that he had no withdrawal symptoms -- why he would post on a board that's all about Effexor's horrible withdrawal symptoms
>
> 1.) Look at my posting history.
> 2.) There is no correlation between Wyeth stock prices and Effexor posts at dr-bob.org.
> 3.) It would be the world's most inefficient marketing strategy.
> 4.) Law of the vocal minority, and absent majority dictates that those whom experience unusually bad side-effects or withdrawal from Effexor are most likely to complain about unusually bad side-effects or withdrawal from Effexor than those who did not experience adverse effects -- at least not to nearly the same magnitude. This isn't a new phenomenon; just look at the number of anti [insert drug name/class] web sites. You have your "Prozac survivors," your anti-benzo, anti-stimulant, anti-Effexor, and anti-GHB groups; the list goes on an on... Extrapolating statistics from only one cohort does not produce objective results.
Posted by kananee on September 25, 2004, at 22:06:33
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » Dave001, posted by Jiggitykid on September 25, 2004, at 19:42:16
Well said, as usual, Jiggitykid. Excellent, in fact, as well as rational. Often I thiink of you as the soul of this board . . .
Posted by Bubblehead on September 26, 2004, at 9:46:10
In reply to Re: Effexor -tapering Q » Dave001, posted by Jiggitykid on September 25, 2004, at 19:42:16
Thank you Jiggitykid for writing what's in many of our hearts about this issue.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 26, 2004, at 19:22:24
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by Dave001 on September 24, 2004, at 17:56:41
> I want to make it clear that I would prefer that people not feel like they're walking on egg shells when posting to me, so if there is any way for you to "exempt" those whom you feel are being uncivilized toward me from suspension, it would be nice.
Thanks for being so accepting, but I'm afraid that if people could be uncivil to you, they might think they could be uncivil to others.
Bob
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