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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 21:37:21
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:07:54
I was only on Effexor for 6 months, and it wasn't a good fit for me. Although many people have a good response to it, it made me feel really apprehensive and apathetic. But that was just me, and we are all different in how we respond to medication. I am now on Celexa, and will be adding Anafranil (a TCA) soon. I am not knowledgeable enough about ADs to make a suggestion about a new AD for you. What I would suggest, however, is that you start a new thread and ask others with bi-polar which AD has been the most effective for them. You will probably get a lot of useful suggestions which you can raise with your pdoc.
Good luck to you.
Tamara
> p.s.
> How long have you been on effexor? I was on it two years ago before I was dxed as bipolar. it worked well for me at first and I even went a bit hypo, but then I crashed on about this time and then I had horrible withdrawal symptoms without even stopping the dose at all; all those things you hear about happened to me while I was on effexor. Even being, I would consider going on it again if it would lift this. It may be different since I'm on Trileptal as well.
Posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:52:36
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 21:25:55
Hi,
Was this your first depression?Geez..now that i have awareness about myself; I realize I do become depressed in winter. It's amazing how this shift has happened suddenly for me. I will call the pdoc tomorrow and set up an appt. meds just don't seem to work for me though. maybe a sunbox would help. this is awful. I forgot how depression really felt.
Katia
Posted by jujube on November 10, 2004, at 8:07:39
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 21:52:36
Katia,
This is the second depression I have experienced. The first was 8 1/2 years ago, at a time when I was struggling with overcoming alcoholism. I am happy to say that I have been sober for now been sober for over 8 years.
What you are going through is awful. But at least you know now that what you are experiencing is an actual disorder, recognized by the medical community. It doesn't make it easier to deal with while you are going through it, but it may give you a some piece of mind knowing that you can get help for it.
I'm glad that you are making an appointment with your pdoc. I would also encourage you to start a new thread perhaps about Seasonal Affective Disorder to try and find out how others have dealt with it or are dealing with it. As I said before, you may need an AD dosage increase for this time of year, or a change in AD.
Hang in there, and take care of yourself.
Tamara
> Hi,
> Was this your first depression?
>
> Geez..now that i have awareness about myself; I realize I do become depressed in winter. It's amazing how this shift has happened suddenly for me. I will call the pdoc tomorrow and set up an appt. meds just don't seem to work for me though. maybe a sunbox would help. this is awful. I forgot how depression really felt.
> Katia
Posted by iris2 on November 10, 2004, at 12:29:49
In reply to Re: Needing support » jujube, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:11:07
Thought you might be interested. I heard of light bulbs that are full spectrum instead of a light box. It would be easier to use as you would not have to take time out to sit in front of the box but just use your everyday lamps in the house.
irene
Posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 12:49:49
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by iris2 on November 10, 2004, at 12:29:49
Do you know where to buy these light bulbs?
Posted by Barbaracat on November 10, 2004, at 13:10:19
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing?, posted by katia on November 9, 2004, at 18:12:45
> Anyone ever hear or experience shamanic healing? I feel like I've got evil spirits around me - bad energy that is feeding off my energy making me drained. I feel cursed.
Hi Katia,
Me too, but it's not our personal demons - it's collective and it's about time we start recognizing the sick society for what it is. I am so discouraged - a let down after allowing myself to hope during this election. I realy did know better and did not expect it to be any different or even make any difference, but still, I let myself envision a country that wants healing as badly as I do. And it's just not gonna be so. Chase after the perfect med combo if it engages your mind, but realize that only temporary relief lies that way. The chase effectively clouds our awareness of what's really going on, don't you think?As soon as I read my emails I'm heading off to bed. Maybe I won't wake up any better but at least I'll forget about feeling so crummy for a little while.
It's not just you with your personal evil spirits, although they do delight in fear. It's this whole world and especially this country. I am so disgusted with this place. Such stupidity, such shallowness and greed. Can't stand a culture that admires a twit like Brittney Spears. Sorry to offend anyone, but the chick is a twit. We're supposed to love our enemies, turn the other cheek. But I like The Buddha's concept of 'idiot compassion'. In other words, use discernment to choose the battles you can actually make a dent in instead of wasting time pretending you don't really hate the Orcs who are destroying your Shire and the natural order.
I'm seriously looking for another place to live. I'm filled with disgust and a sense of futility and impotence about doing anything that will make any difference except exhaust me. It's so expensive to live here, jobs are vanishing, healthcare sucks, privacy invaded, we're isolated from each other and foisted upon us the dogma of their very weird and insane god (oh pleeeeze, let them all get Raptured and get the hell out of our faces). We get another four years (at least) of dubbya dum-dum's neo-con agenda - and he's just a puppet tip of the iceberg.
Are we supposed to stay and fight some kind of good fight of which we will not win? Are we supposed to nobly die trying? Or are we supposed to head for a new life where there are still problems, but at least different problems for a change, maybe brighter colors, warmer weather, different music, nicer people? I feel no sense of allegiance to this country any longer, I am 'existentially depressed' and so worn out by it that I haven't yet figured out if I'm personally depressed as well.
Does anyone else see it this way? We can't expect pills to make this feeling go away, it shouldn't go away, because this feeling is a healthy response to an unhealthy existence. Maybe ADs can stop the skid into getting any worse than it actualy is, maybe we can alleviate paralysis, but it actually is this bad. Just look at the environmental reforms undone in the last 4 years. This alone should make any concerned person very depressed. We're not only feeling our own personal despair, but the anguish of a living planet. There is not enough Prozac in the universe to take away that pain. It will not get any better, none of it, there are too many unconscious people, a critical mass of idiots. The fact that our parasitic species will probably go the way of the dinosaurs doesn't fill me with alarm anymore. There's no more sense of desperation to survive, only a black humor and mild curiosity at how we're going to get out of it. Think the Middle East is bad now? Read the Book of Revelation and understand why this Bible-thumping administration and their ilk have no intention whatsoever of promoting peace and are in fact propagating discord. It's 'God's Will'. Fundamentalism is the evil spirit and I don't know of any shaman equipped to handle such a mindless force. Truly, I no longer care if I, our children, or the majority of us lives or dies in this sick society. I'll continue to do the best I can but have adopted an attitutde of no expectations. I don't presume that anyone else will agree with me or join in my efforts. The only difference is that I'm no longer disillusioned.
We're in the Kali Yuga and it's supposed to be like this. It still sucks. But I'm no longer alarmed at my hopelessness, not worried that it's some personal demon that's causing my despair, no longer trying to make it all better, no pill combo that's going to do the work that I doubt I want to do any more. Giving up is freeing and I'm at peace within this groundless turmoil. I won't actively 'do anything' which is just melodramatic and hurtful to those left whome I care about. I wouldn't want them to do that do me. But I won't be surprised at anything that happens from here on out and it's liberating. So be it. - Barbara
Posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 13:33:22
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on November 10, 2004, at 13:10:19
Hi Barbara,
You said it sister. I think a lot of us sensitive folks are down and out since the election. I am, you are, another friend of mine is holing up alone; not returning calls. It happened alongside the hour turning back too. And Barb, I do think you made a difference. It's just a long process of evolution. Things don't change instantly. I think we are at the cusp of a consciousness change and whenever there is movement away from the status quo, there is intense resistance. I think that is one of the reasons why HALF the country voted for that administration. I'm looking at this as part of evolution.there are so many influences. I am trying so hard not to go into that dark place; whatever it is that is causing it! It's too scary. I've got to work, bills to pay,, etc. It gets so scary when I feel I can crumble like this, because who will take care of everything? I'm a single homeowner with no boyfriend and family far away.
I accidentally took a double dose of paxil yesterday and today is a bit better. I wonder if that did it. I may double my dose from now on. I'm also trying to not feed it. So I'm waking up and turning on lights, playing music instead of total silence and darkness and coldness all the time and strecthing and forcing myself to take walks. It's like I have to ride it out from November to March is the dark corner I have to round every year.
take good care Barb--if we feel like it maybe we can see each other over Thanksgiving.
Thinking of you-
Katia
Posted by fluffy on November 10, 2004, at 15:37:24
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 13:33:22
Hi Katia--longer message to follow if this works. I wrote a really long one that got deleted. drat.
Posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 15:52:54
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing?, posted by fluffy on November 10, 2004, at 15:37:24
> Hi Katia--longer message to follow if this works. I wrote a really long one that got deleted. drat.
Hi Fluffy,
sorry about your message getting deleted. Just to say, yes this one worked.
Posted by fluffy on November 10, 2004, at 15:55:08
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 13:33:22
Okay--we're in business. Hi Katia, Barb-cat, and others.
Oh Katia--how i can identify with how you are feeling. It is so hard when you feel like you can't deal with the everyday stuff, and it feels like it will never, ever end. I thought that a couple of months ago the fall/winter depression would gobble me up whole, and I would never get better. The thing that was hardest for me was losing my appetite. How I know that tight, nauseous feeling in your stomach. food just sits there like a rock and doesn't have a taste. eating is so primal and so simple, so it is really disorienting for me when I don't want to. My therapist really helped me out with it. He told me, "so what if you don't have an appetite? don't beat yourself up for it." So when I would eat and feel disgusted, I'd just tell myself, "so what" and then give myself a big pat on the back after having completed the "task" of eating. when I felt like I wanted to die, I'd just tell myself, "i feel like hell, but this is temporary, and I'll feel better soon." and do you know what, I did.
Make the proper med adjustments with your pdoc, of course. but the behavioural stuff is tres important during this time, too.
Try and give yourself a mental gold star for completing your everyday things if you can. depression can make all of that stuff seem downright oppressive. out of bed, gold star. taking a walk, gold star, etc. I can't say that it helped me feel fabulous when I did this, but at least I got through it. And i really noticed a difference from my last depressions by doing this. It gave me just a tad more strength. Try not to spin your wheels too much with extraneous effort to heal yourself. Use your strength to get through the day. You will feel better soon--I know it. Also--try not to sentence yourself until March. You may feel like shit now, but it doesn't mean that it will automatically last until then--you could be pleasantly surprised. One day at a time.
Take lots and lots of care,
Katy
Posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 16:27:54
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing?, posted by fluffy on November 10, 2004, at 15:55:08
> Okay--we're in business. Hi Katia, Barb-cat, and others.
>
> Oh Katia--how i can identify with how you are feeling. It is so hard when you feel like you can't deal with the everyday stuff, and it feels like it will never, ever end. I thought that a couple of months ago the fall/winter depression would gobble me up whole, and I would never get better.**How long did it last?
It's this changeover in short days that triggers me. Maybe once I adjust to that. I am feeling slightly better today - wierd. So then I think I'm so sick to death of being at the mercy of these moods which are at the mercy of any change in the environment.Interesting thing- I called my pdoc and set up an appt. I also asked for a recommendation for a sunbox/light box. I looked it up on line (Apollo Brite Lite IV) and one thing it says is that it provides full spectrum light and eliminates so much yellow. Very interesting as that is one thing that happens to me during this time. It feels like my eyes fill up with a sallow looking color - everything is sallow. He says these really help people - soooo maybe I'll try yet another thing.
Which meds are you on now? Depakote? any AD?
katia
> Make the proper med adjustments with your pdoc, of course. but the behavioural stuff is tres important during this time, too.
>
> Try and give yourself a mental gold star for completing your everyday things if you can. depression can make all of that stuff seem downright oppressive. out of bed, gold star. taking a walk, gold star, etc. I can't say that it helped me feel fabulous when I did this, but at least I got through it. And i really noticed a difference from my last depressions by doing this. It gave me just a tad more strength. Try not to spin your wheels too much with extraneous effort to heal yourself. Use your strength to get through the day. You will feel better soon--I know it. Also--try not to sentence yourself until March. You may feel like shit now, but it doesn't mean that it will automatically last until then--you could be pleasantly surprised. One day at a time.
>
> Take lots and lots of care,
> Katy
Posted by jujube on November 10, 2004, at 17:30:30
In reply to Light Boxes for winter depression, posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 16:27:54
Katia,
Just wanted to send you a couple of web pages I found on SAD and light therapy.
www.psychiatrictimes.com/po21063.html
www.psychdirect.com/depression/d-treatmentguidelinesSAD.htm
www.prweb.com/releases/2003/12/prweb92323.htm
Posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 18:49:23
In reply to Re: Light Boxes for winter depression » katia, posted by jujube on November 10, 2004, at 17:30:30
Thanks; I'll look into it. I've actually ordered that apollo brite lite today. Hopefully it'll get here soon.
katia
Posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 16:09:23
In reply to Re: Needing support/shamanic healing? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 10, 2004, at 13:33:22
Hi Katia,
Yeah, this election really brought the Orcs out of hiding, didn't it? At least the lines are drawn and I know who I definitely don't want to invite over to my house for dinner. I figure it is a time of evolution, either where we humans transcend this crap, or else get off the playing field to allow for another test case for higher consciousness. I sure don't understand it but what's the alternative besides putting one foot in front of the other? And pulling the covers up on those days when we can't? But like you said, you can't let the cover days go on too long because bills pile up and things get messy.Katia, if a double-dose of Paxil may have helped, then here's a suggestion that's worth a try. We know about bipolars and SSRIs and many other problems associated with them, so bulking up on SSRIs could be trouble. My husband and I and another couple have been taking this research grade St. John's Wort and all of us are being helped by it. Oh sure, I still go into dark places but sheeeit, there are plenty of real dark places to go in to, and not just in my brain. Since taking this SJW I don't stay there as long. I was reading my journal noting how I was before and since taking it and the changes are very evident. I've noticed great positive changes in my husband's mood and motivation and so has he. Just yesterday he was bugging me to please replenish our supply because it's getting low and he doesn't want to run out. For the first time in years he's not feeling in the 'grey zone' - and no problems with 'the wood pile' as he puts it (and I appreciate).
I was talking to our friends last week and they're at the 4 week mark and feel that it's kicking in very nicely. 'Subtle but sweet', as my friend put it.
I don't have the bipolar/SSRI problems with it, no sexual side effects and no buzzyness or somatic stuff like with other ADs. In fact, nothing except a lighter and calmer mood. The brand to get is HBC Protocols - www.hbcprotocols.com. Plus it's cheap, $29.95 for 280 tablets.
It takes a few weeks but maybe you're already primed enough with the Paxil. I also take L-taurine 2,000 mg a day for the extra mood stabilizing. I'm trying another change with the lithium which I'll continue to report on. I ran out of my prescription lithium carbonate and living out in the boonies, don't get to a pharmacy often. I have some left over lithium orotate I was taking at their recommended dosage, 120mg a day, which did squat for me. So I tripled the dose, matching what I was on with the lithium carbonate and so far I like it alot. Less tired, and I've lost 5 pounds since starting with no hint of hypomania at all. In fact, I'm sleeping better since starting it. No one seems to know how it converts dose for dose with the other lithiums so I may need to adjust the dose, but time will tell. If I start seeming like I'm wigging out a bit, I'm sure you'll notice and will let me know, OK? But so far, thumbs up (1 week).
The best brand is Advanced Research Lithium Orotate, which I believe you can get at www.iherb.com. Again, real cheap ($10 for 200 tablets). Hope to see you Thanksgiving. I'm going to set up a yahoo email so we can trade info. Luv, Barbara
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 16:40:20
In reply to Maybe some help? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 16:09:23
Hi Barb (and Katy, others)
Glad to hear you're doing better today. Did you hear that Eliz. Edwards was dxed with breast cancer the same day they conceded? Bizarre timing...I'm in a different place today; I'm still slow, decreased appetite, not wanting to see people, teary, but I'm in an accepting place about this shift in mood. Like I just accept I need to go inward and quiet for awhile instead of fight it. I also have a bad migraine starting yesterday (starting at the lower back of the head shooting through my eyeballs). I've never gotten these until this year,, i wonder if it's med related/Trileptal or Paxil? I also have mild/mod whiplash from being rearended a couple weeks ago. I think this adds to the depression.
I may try the SJW, but I get my meds free from samples and don't know how much I can afford. I also know that it works on serotonin, so couldn't that be dangerous for BPs too? it's like an herbal AD? I may try it though; I'd rather go natural if it's effective. I bought a sun/light box yesterday and am waiting for its arrival. I think this will help me since reading up on it.
I thought about you last night. I went to Cathy's workshop "Life Cycles" about what happens when animals die. Someone had a cat who hung on even after the injection and she always wondered if she chose too early for him to go. But Cathy explained that it was time, but still some animals have a strong will to live even when it's time; I thought of Merlin. Rock had requested through CAthy to me that I bring the candle I light on his alter (it's in a nice sculpture/bowl with rose petals and a candle). He wanted me to bring it and light the candle to create light and healing for beings. He was excited about the workshop and was right there the whole time.
Interesting and heartwarming/wrenching stuff and confusing to me as well.
BTW, I received an email from someone directly from this board (sent via PB). I think there is a way that we can send a private message and then exchange email addresses. I'll look into it.
katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 16:53:15
In reply to Maybe some help? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 16:09:23
Hi Barb,
You need to go to your settings and turn "on" your babblemail allowance. If you don't want to do that, send me one. http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/babblemail.pl and then just type in Katia for recipient.
Posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 17:54:33
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 16:40:20
Katia,
That's the thing about SJW - no one knows how it works. But it doesn't have the same side effect profile as SSRIs. Alone, the results were spotty and I need a mood stabilizer with it (I wasn't taking lithium or anything else when I first went on it), but I need a MS anyway. What would concern me is upping an SSRI dose and risking a mixed states episode. I hope Paxil stays effective for you, and free is a good price.Merlin was one of those cats who didn't want to go. He struggled through his first shot, lost his heartbeat and then regained it and came to again, breathing and fighting to live. Even his second shot took a while. The vet said he'd never seen an animal with such a strong will to live.
It was just agony wondering if I was making a big mistake too soon, making presumptions about taking matters of life and death into my hands for my reasons, not his. The fact that it was torture on us to see his body shutting down, seeing him so worn out, starving, his little bum covered with maggots because he could no longer clean himself (that was the final straw) - those things mattered to US, but didn't seem to matter so much to him. He still wanted to go out, lie in the sun, get brushed. His spirit was so strong but his body was just about gone. My greatest horror was that he wouldn't come home one day and we'd find him a few weeks later via our noses. Our lives were put on hold, just waiting for the end with a constant reminder of wrenching loss. With my Mom's death so recently, the wounds couldn't heal. But this was mine and my husband's pain. Merlin seemed fine with it and he was so bonded with us that I believe he was worried about how we would cope. And he just plain loved life.
I don't regret our decision at all. I miss him very much, that sweet pure little purry love that I'll never know the same way in this life. But gad, that drawn out death watch is just too much and I feel released from a heavy load of unresolved grieving since we let him go. I ache for people who have to go through this with their loved ones. At least humans can decide these things for themselves more consciously. And John Ashcroft trying to repeal the Death with Dignity Act in Oregon - perhaps he will long for a Dr. Kevorkian when his time comes.
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:06:48
In reply to Maybe some help? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 16:09:23
Hi,
interestingly enough, I was doing research to see if migraines were a s/e of Trileptal and found out that people actually take mood stabilizers for migraines! I also somehow got directed to serenity website about li. ort. (LO) and did a search on some postings here...we did talk about this awhile back and there was a post of yours that talked about how it didn't work for you last time you ran out of Li.Carb. But anyway, the other posts I read about raved about it. (hoping it works for you now). You mention that it recommends 120mg a day? Everyone else on that other thread takes between 4-6 120mg spread out in one day. That's a total of 480-720mg. But the amt. of Lithium you get isn't 100% it's like a small percentage Li. This is the link:http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/264515.html
Ummm..maybe a light box, SJW, and LO could do it for me. And I don't need my pdoc really; he doesn't work with alternatives like SJW or LO last time I checked.
Do you have to get your blood drawn/checked?
Katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:18:19
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » katia, posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 17:54:33
If you want to send a "Babble mail" just clck on the persons name at their post where it says "posted by name". YOu can send them a private message and include your email or anything you like. THe person has to have it set up to receive "Babble mail" first thow.
Hope this helps. Obviously when you registered you said yes to "Babbble mail"
Thanks Iris!
Here above Barb is how to do it, if you want to send me one.
I mentioned Merlin because I felt he wanted to go and you chose right, but it's the desire of life to hang on regardless.
Katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:20:51
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by iris2 on November 10, 2004, at 12:29:49
Hi Iris,
I still didn't see where I can do this? (send the mail).
Thanks for your help.
Katia
Posted by Laree on November 11, 2004, at 21:14:48
In reply to Re: Needing support » katia, posted by jujube on November 9, 2004, at 18:05:30
I have had SAD for years and the most effective med for it (for me) has been Lexapro.
One year I actually felt Prozac made it worse;
last year I was on Wellbutrin during a critical (SAD) time period for me and I suffered horribly with depression. As I understand it, SSRI's (and light therapy) are supposed to be best therapies for SAD. I found that out the hard way!
I have been on Effexor XR and Celexa also. I had a bad experience with Effexor (and it was in winter, too) and I don't think Celexa as good as Lexapro for SAD (my opinion). I have never been on Paxil, but if you feel it isn't the right med for you, I think it would be best to ask about something else (have you tried Lexapro yet?).
Best,
L.
> You are not alone. Many people experience depression or a worsening of their depression when the days start to get shorter and they are exposed to less sunlight. I am sure you are aware that it is a true disorder and is referred to as Seasonal Affective Disorder. You might want to invest in a sun simulator or a light box. It is a device that produces light equal in intesity to natural sunlight. It is supposed to be effective for people with SAD. Although I like this time of year, I use one, and it seems to make a difference in my energy and sleep patterns. I have seen some posts in the past while about light therapy and sun simulators. It might be worth your while to do a search and see what others have said about it.
>
> How long have you been on Paxil? Perhaps you need to talk to your doctor about increasing your dose during the darker months.
>
> Hang in there, and try to take advantage of whatever sun and bright days there are. I wish you all the best, and hope you find relief soon.
>
> Tamara
>
>
> > Geez...anyone else feeling the clutches of depression since the days are shorter and since the election?
> >
> > I'm really feeling it coming on and it's scary. I'm still on Paxil at 12.5mg and Trileptal at 450mg and Seroquel at 12.5mg, but this feeling is so familiar and I haven't felt it since last year and the years before. But the difference is I'm on meds and I STILL feel it. I just want to curl up in bed all day and am trying my hardest to not feed the depression. I feel it physically - reduced appetite, feeling like I want to throw up/tightness in throat and cry.
> > Oh boy...this sucks. WB doesn't work for me, effexor, zoloft, celexa, nor serzone and it looks as though maybe paxil isn't making a dent. Wouldn't it be nice to be a straightforward depressive who takes Prozac and feels like a new person....How to hide from the grips of darkness when I've tried so much already??
> > Katia
>
>
Posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 22:51:56
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:06:48
The Li orotate researchers say that the orotate form gets past the blood brain barrier and is transported more efficiently than the carbonate and 120mg should equal around 400mg of carbonate's effectiveness without the lithium side effects (because it's so much less to excrete). I took 2 tabs a day hoping this was so, but it surely wasn't and I went hypo mighty quickly. So now I take 3 tabs twice a day which is a little more than the 600mg of carbonate I was taking. BTW, don't believe the Serenity hype that theirs is the only worthwhile brand. They're 3 times the cost and use the same formulation as the Advanced Research brand (developed by Hans Nieper, the 'father' of the orotic transport system. That's orotic, not... oh well never mind).
The question is if their theory is correct and the orotate form is more efficient, then how does it compare in side effects, etc? Am I getting a whopping dose or what? So far, no sx whatsoever. I stopped taking lithium blood tests because my dose was always way below the therapeutic window (any more than 600mg gave me the drooling shakes).
Your pdoc isn't alone in his alternative meds bias. My pdoc admitted that he just didn't have time to keep up with all the standard pharm drugs interactions much less with herbal 'unprovens'. I was always a little puzzled by him because he was otherwise very cool, a Birkenstock and tofu kind of guy. We shared political issues and had a very good connection, but about the only 'alternative' thing we agreed on was fish oil. I think it's because he's in the HMO system and who knows what hair-shirts they have to wear to keep their jobs.
I switched on my accept email. I'll send you one and you send me one to see how it works, OK? Here goes - Barbara
.> Hi,
> interestingly enough, I was doing research to see if migraines were a s/e of Trileptal and found out that people actually take mood stabilizers for migraines! I also somehow got directed to serenity website about li. ort. (LO) and did a search on some postings here...we did talk about this awhile back and there was a post of yours that talked about how it didn't work for you last time you ran out of Li.Carb. But anyway, the other posts I read about raved about it. (hoping it works for you now). You mention that it recommends 120mg a day? Everyone else on that other thread takes between 4-6 120mg spread out in one day. That's a total of 480-720mg. But the amt. of Lithium you get isn't 100% it's like a small percentage Li. This is the link:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/264515.html
>
> Ummm..maybe a light box, SJW, and LO could do it for me. And I don't need my pdoc really; he doesn't work with alternatives like SJW or LO last time I checked.
> Do you have to get your blood drawn/checked?
> Katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 23:17:23
In reply to Re: Needing supportKatia, posted by Laree on November 11, 2004, at 21:14:48
Hi,
I am surprised Prozac didn't work for you b/c that's an SSRI too.I am bipolar so it's harder for me to pop ADs. I'm only on a small amt. of Paxil. I have tried all the ones you mentioned pre-BP dx before we realized I was BP. Lexapro I haven't tried however. I'm sick of all this trial and error stuff anyway, Celexa was awful for me (lexapro being the advanced version of Celexa). Did nothing for my depression and made me worse off even. I might give Li. Orotate a go.
thanks for your support.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on November 12, 2004, at 3:14:01
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:18:19
> I mentioned Merlin because I felt he wanted to go and you chose right, but it's the desire of life to hang on regardless.
**Oh, yes, I know and wasn't really responding about anything specific, just appreciated a chance to talk about him some more to someone I know understands. I was just thinking about him the other day and the whole bit about 'death with dignity' - how hard it is to see a loved one (or ourselves) suffer when hanging on is just too difficult for everyone concerned. I hope I'm allowed to make that choice if ever I need to. But you just never know - the whole bit about karma, the bardo and all, and if all that messy suffering and agony to others isn't necessary for whatever stoic reason. I sure hope not. But however it happens, it sure puts you through poweful changes like nothing else.
You're right, though. Life does have that desire to hang on. It doesn't know anything else, I imagine.
How are you doing these days since losing Rock? You said you were planning on writing a book about Pit Bulls. Still in the works?
Posted by TaoSuki on November 13, 2004, at 1:10:30
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
It is called "Noisy Brain". You can research it on google but the most advanced knowledge of this is research done on Fragile-X Syndrome. It seems that our brains have too many synapses firing, creating white noise. My brain goes in a million directions at once. I find that meditation (hard at first) does help. As well I find it easier to sleep when I give my brain something to concentrate on, such as an action movie. Sounds weird but it works.
<<<I have been experiencing for as long as I can remember cycling that does not fit with the parameters of bi-polar or cyclothymia. The cycles run every few days normally, but can run minutes or hours. Combined with this I experience mind noise, which can best be described as a very busy train station that runs 24/7. I talked to my psych about it and she had not heard of either of these syptoms, so I stopped seeing her and started my own research. Mind noise is experienced by hundreds of people, some of the more famous include Lord Byron, Emily Dickenson and Kurt Cobain. All known drug addicts. Does any of this sound familiar to you, I am looking for help other than drinking to much, the only thing to give quiet to my mind. Any suggestions other than alcohol or hard drugs? how do you deal with this? I would be interested in your story. The mind noise I experience sometimes is so loud, I can't hear myself speak, its chronic. Does this sound familiar? let me know is this rings true to you and your experiences, please!>>>
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