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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 2:40:35
I'm sure different people feel differently but I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions on this.
Are
1) you
2) posters on this board (in your opinion)
Specifically wanting a MEDICATION or DRUG as an answer? I mean sometimes people post about a certain symptom or problem. I think I have been jumped on on a couple of occasions now for suggesting a psychological rather than medication way of dealing with that symptom.I guess I was wondering whether people are open to a variety of suggestions or if people have already made their mind up that some DRUG must be the answer (this is after all the medications board I suppose).
Just thought I'd ask.
Perhaps I'll redirect my response to the psychology board and it is up to you guys whether you want to follow the link...
Fair enough?
Posted by emme on March 9, 2005, at 6:22:11
In reply to Posters on this board, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 2:40:35
> Are
> 1) you
> 2) posters on this board (in your opinion)
> Specifically wanting a MEDICATION or DRUG as an answer?One part of the answer, not the sole ingredient. I can't speak for all, but I believe many people on this board feel the same way.
> suggesting a psychological rather than medication way of dealing with that symptom.
There is a psychology board for that. I don't happen to go there. I do counseling irl. There is also a health board for general health issues.
> I guess I was wondering whether people are open to a variety of suggestions or if people have already made their mind up that some DRUG must be the answer
> (this is after all the medications board I suppose).
That's right.
Your use of capitals for the word "drug" comes across to me as pejorative. I do not take medication lightly. The decision to take medication is made between doctor and patient as with any other illness where medication might be warranted.
Posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 8:21:08
In reply to Posters on this board, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 2:40:35
Hello,
>I think I have been jumped on on a couple of occasions now for suggesting a psychological rather than medication way of dealing with that symptom.
Me too, I was upset :-(
>I guess I was wondering whether people are open to a variety of suggestions or if people have already made their mind up that some drug must be the answer.
Yes, I think a lot of people who post on psycho-babble have decided that they need medication. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that I'd benefit from psychological therapy because I've never benefitted from it in the past. That last psychologist I saw said that he did not know how to help me!
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 8:39:52
In reply to Re: Posters on this board » alexandra_k, posted by ed_uk on March 9, 2005, at 8:21:08
Hi.
With major depressive disorder (MDD - unipolar), I think there lies a spectrum that extends from the very biological to the very psychological. Often, using both medication and psychotherapy is very helpful. Psychotherapy, if needed, can help prevent a relapse into depression, even if it is very biological. I like the concept of "depressive pressure" to describe the stress placed upon the biological system that produces and perpetuates depression. Psychotherapy can also help relieve the psychological and emotional burden that the biological disorder places on people. This can serve to reduce depressive pressure.
Medication often works to produce a remission for which no psychotherapy is needed. In addition, formally troublesome psychological issues can vanish like magic.
- Scott
Posted by Mildred on March 9, 2005, at 9:05:20
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 8:39:52
I'd been trying counseling/psychotherapy for YEARS before I finally broke down and was willing to try medication (out of desperation) - which had been suggested to me many times over by doctors and therapists alike. The effect was miraculous. I suddenly had a life that I never knew was possible. I suddenly liked myself and people around me. I still go for counseling often, as well.
Posted by calamityjane on March 9, 2005, at 9:12:05
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by Mildred on March 9, 2005, at 9:05:20
At least with meds you don't have to go through months of psychotherapy trying to get to the root of your problem.
I have my issues with meds too though...I think that doctors could be a little more cautious in prescribing the amount they do. I also hate having to take one med to counter the effects of another med.
But my aunt is schitzophrenic (spelling right?) and she is not normal because she refuses to take her meds. Psychiatry is not all about emotional issues. Most have a genetic factor that makes meds necessary. remember all those mental hospitals a long long time ago? Well, today they aren't used as much. why? the meds are saving these people.
Posted by calamityjane on March 9, 2005, at 10:22:17
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by calamityjane on March 9, 2005, at 9:12:05
Sorry, but I just thought of another thing....When I was 17 I had panic attacks all the time to the point that my stomach was nervous everywhere I went. I couldn't go in public places, ride elevators, sit in a movie theater. (to this day I still get tense when I sit in a movie theater--although no more attacks thank goodness)
If I had of been put on something back then my life would have been so much easier to manage. It is an awful feeling to think you are about to die at any moment, and when you are 17 and don't understand the concept of "anxiety disorder" it is 10 times worse. I seriously thought I was going crazy...meds would have changed my life
Posted by Spriggy on March 9, 2005, at 11:20:34
In reply to plus...., posted by calamityjane on March 9, 2005, at 10:22:17
I guess I think it's not fair for us to judge.. (not saying anyone here is) but I know in the past, BEFORE I dealt with these issues, I sometimes judged people for expecting a pill to stop all their problems.
Then God humbled me in a way only He can by allowing me to walk down that same road as a lot of other people, and once I realized how debilitating it was, and that I had two small children to care for (one with special needs) and that therapy alone would not "snap me out of this" (and NO this is NOT a run on sentence, ha), I finally realized I needed medicine.
Little did I know, the medicine would make me feel one thousand times worse- and later found out I am not to ever take an SSRI again. BUT, still, having said all that, when people have serious mental disorders like BP, therapy alone will do little to no good.
I grew up in a home with a BP father who REFUSED TO take medicine until 5 years ago. I can't even imagine what my childhood memories COULD be like had he been on medicine because he has become a different man (for the better).
So it's all relative.
Each person is different.
Sometimes it's biological, sometimes it spiritual, sometimes it's emotional, sometime's mental..
But sometimes, when you are in the midst of it, it's for even YOU to know which is which.
Posted by Maximus on March 9, 2005, at 11:47:30
In reply to Posters on this board, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 2:40:35
and money, to say the least and to be polite.
Serious mental illness (not aragnaphobia) are essentially biological. That's a fact. Period. However, once someone has been "relatively" stabilized with his medication, then psychology (cbt is very good) may sometimes contribute to his global recovery.
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2005, at 14:51:01
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time... » alexandra_k, posted by Maximus on March 9, 2005, at 11:47:30
If it wasn't for medications when I was in my 20's, I probably wouldn't have been able to raise my three children, run an Aerobics program of my own, and then in the midst of a divorce, put myself through nursing school and graduate magna cum laude. That little valium pill enabled me to do what my extreme anxiety and panic would not allow me to do alone. The only thing that kept me going until the valium was alchol.I would have been an alcholic. Now I continue to take the minimum amt necessary to control my symptoms, see a therapist, and read this Board to keep myself educated on new meds, side effects, etc. And, of course to encourage others, and lend support when asked for and needed. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by zeugma on March 9, 2005, at 15:55:40
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by SLS on March 9, 2005, at 8:39:52
I like the concept of "depressive pressure" to describe the stress placed upon the biological system that produces and perpetuates depression. Psychotherapy can also help relieve the psychological and emotional burden that the biological disorder places on people. This can serve to reduce depressive pressure.>>
When psychotherapy *works*, it does this. All too often though, it doesn't.
In fairness, my therapists over the years have had an enormous task. Dealing with an immense amount of depressive pressure. I've seen friends do perfectly well with a little psychotherapy, and others who found that the right AD made everything fall into place.
Ahhh, Scott, when i go back to therapy after another forced hiatus (therapy itself can worsen the problem, just as the wrong med can induce a blinding dysphoria) maybe I'll start with your concept. it's a good one, and maybe it won't impose too great a burden on my therapist to try to solve all my problems. And maybe it'll provide *me* with a reasonable goal for a therapist, so I don't drain the life out of the therapeutic process with excessive expectations.
-z
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 17:05:20
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by zeugma on March 9, 2005, at 15:55:40
Thanks everyone.
To clarify a little, I don't tell people that they should go to a therapist instead of taking a medication.
I just mean to say that some symptoms (e.g., sleep, anxiety, pain) can be dealt with on multiple levels. I don't know too much about medications so I figured I didn't really have anything to contribute to this board. But when I hear people say that they have been on many medications and they haven't really helped, or they can't get a medication or whatever then I do think it is worth considering other options. Even as a suppliment to medication. But I think that my suggestions along these lines have not been well recieved...
It is just strange to me that people have decided that medication is the ONLY thing that will assist them. While mental illness is biological therapy and meditation etc etc affect biological changes as well as medications so I don't understand peoples resistance to the notion that something other than medication alone may assist them.
Especially when people are having problems with side affects from the medication which requires yet another medication etc etc and round and round they go...
It is hard to know where to draw the line as to what is appropriate to this board or not. Maybe I will redirect stuff to another board... But in general I don't appreciate hostile responses to my posts which are well intentioned.
I do know that medication assists a lot of people.
But then it is also true that therapy and alternative treatments assist a lot of people.
And studies have shown that a combination of medication and techniques typically learned in therapy is more affective than either one on its own for a number of conditions.Thanks for responding
Posted by Sebastian on March 9, 2005, at 20:11:21
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time... » alexandra_k, posted by Maximus on March 9, 2005, at 11:47:30
Your right, I need more talk and less pills.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:26:53
In reply to Re: Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time... » alexandra_k, posted by Maximus on March 9, 2005, at 11:47:30
> Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time
Please don't overgeneralize.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:27:01
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 17:05:20
> it is also true that therapy and alternative treatments assist a lot of people.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding therapy to Psycho-Babble Psychology and those about alternative treatments to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 23:03:25
In reply to Redirect: therapy and alternative treatments, posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:27:01
Where is it appropriate to talk about the inter-relationship between all three?
Over on social???
Posted by Maxime on March 10, 2005, at 1:22:07
In reply to Re: please be civil » Maximus, posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:26:53
With all due respect Dr. Bob, English is not Maximus' first language. I think it makes it hard for him to elaborate further. I don't think he meant to overgeneralize. French is his first language. I believe it may prevent him from saying more than he does when he makes a comment.
Also, in the French language we tend to use the imperative tense much more often than in English so it comes across as being "strong" or as a "matter of fact".
Maxime
> > Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time
>
> Please don't overgeneralize.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by Maximus on March 10, 2005, at 7:34:02
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Maxime on March 10, 2005, at 1:22:07
> Also, in the French language we tend to use the imperative tense much more often than in English so it comes across as being "strong" or as a "matter of fact".
>
> MaximeThanks to you Maxime! You are a very clever and kind person. I think you understand very well our language;-) We're used to use in French that expression:**direct pipe**. I think it resumes it all. Bye.
Posted by Maximus on March 10, 2005, at 7:39:19
In reply to Re: please be civil » Maximus, posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:26:53
> > Psychotherapy *alone* is a waiste of time
>
> Please don't overgeneralize.Hi Dr Bob,
While i don't share your point of view, i'm going to respect your warning, though.
Have a nice day!
Posted by Maximus on March 10, 2005, at 7:59:50
In reply to Re: Posters on this board, posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2005, at 17:05:20
> And studies have shown that a combination of >medication and techniques >typically learned in therapy is more affective than either one on its own for a number of conditions.
Well at least, we both do agree with the above statement. And this is the foundation of your first thread.
So, with all due respect Alexandra, i think that Social or Psychology will do a much better field to exchange than here.
Regards,
Posted by mmcconathy on March 10, 2005, at 19:15:00
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by Maxime on March 10, 2005, at 1:22:07
she really gets on my nerves.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 10, 2005, at 22:43:03
In reply to Re: i will... » Dr. Bob, posted by Maximus on March 10, 2005, at 7:39:19
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 10, 2005, at 22:43:59
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by mmcconathy on March 10, 2005, at 19:15:00
> she really gets on my nerves.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 10, 2005, at 22:49:11
In reply to Re: Posters on this board » alexandra_k, posted by Maximus on March 10, 2005, at 7:59:50
> with all due respect Alexandra, i think that Social or Psychology will do a much better field to exchange than here.
Let's say Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050305/msgs/469483.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2005, at 21:52:37
In reply to Redirect: therapy and alternative treatments, posted by Dr. Bob on March 9, 2005, at 21:27:01
> I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding therapy to Psycho-Babble Psychology
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050305/msgs/469875.html
Thanks,
Bob
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