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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 18:39:09
How long did it take to figure that out? Did it take enough time so that you already had to do a very slow taper to get off it?
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2005, at 20:56:16
In reply to If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 18:39:09
No, this was the same time as the above Thread. My pdoc decided to try it and slowly began to replace it with klonopin. One Sunday I said to my husband that I felt like killing myself but I didn't want to die. Called pdoc who said stop the klonopin and just take xanax sometimes klonopin makes people depressed. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 23:29:21
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » KaraS, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2005, at 20:56:16
> No, this was the same time as the above Thread. My pdoc decided to try it and slowly began to replace it with klonopin. One Sunday I said to my husband that I felt like killing myself but I didn't want to die. Called pdoc who said stop the klonopin and just take xanax sometimes klonopin makes people depressed. Fondly, Phillipa
Thanks, PhillipaWas that 2-3 weeks? And you were able to do a exact switch to the Xanax without withdrawal effects? I am really afraid I'll be one of the ones who become more depressed.
K
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2005, at 23:39:04
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » Phillipa, posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 23:29:21
Yes, I was still taking small amts of xanax during the day when he said I might have rebound anxiety so I just stopped the klonopin. And BTW I never knew until I came to PBabble that klonopin is stronger. So I wonder how much the mind plays into this also. Was just knowing I was going back to the familiar enough to relax me and take away those feelings? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by KaraS on July 26, 2005, at 1:20:34
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » KaraS, posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2005, at 23:39:04
> Yes, I was still taking small amts of xanax during the day when he said I might have rebound anxiety so I just stopped the klonopin. And BTW I never knew until I came to PBabble that klonopin is stronger. So I wonder how much the mind plays into this also. Was just knowing I was going back to the familiar enough to relax me and take away those feelings? Fondly, Phillipa
Could be. It's one of those things you'll never know for sure.K
Posted by krybrahaha78 on July 26, 2005, at 1:52:27
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » Phillipa, posted by KaraS on July 26, 2005, at 1:20:34
i have heard many times that klonopin also increases serotonin---so if this is that case, how can it cause depression?
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2005, at 6:35:58
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by krybrahaha78 on July 26, 2005, at 1:52:27
> i have heard many times that klonopin also increases serotonin---so if this is that case, how can it cause depression?
I have read a few things that Klonopin reduces serotonin. There doesn't seem to be much consensus on this, I have seen both reported. There doesn't seem to be much interest in furthering research on Klonopin in this area.
- Scott
----------------------------------Neuropharmacology. 1995 Oct;34(10):1327-33. Related Articles, Links
Serotonin turnover rate, [3H]paroxetine binding sites, and 5-HT1A receptors in the hippocampus of rats subchronically treated with clonazepam.Lima L, Trejo E, Urbina M.
Laboratorio de Neuroquimica, Instituto Venezolano de Investigaciones Cientificas, Caracas, Venezuela.
Selective central benzodiazepine agonists, such as clonazepam, are known to modify serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic content in the brain. In order to further study the effect of this benzodiazepine on serotonin turnover rate, rats received clonazepam, 10 mg/kg for 10 days, and the concentrations of serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid were determined in the hippocampus after inhibition of monoamineoxidase with pargyline. The results indicate a reduction in the turnover rate of the monoamine. In addition, the systemic administration of clonazepam produced a decrease in the Bmax of [3H]DPAT binding to 5-HT1A sites in the hippocampus. By contrast, this effect was not observed if clonazepam was delivered into the dorsal raphe nucleus by osmotic minipumps. The binding of [3H]paroxetine to 5-HT reuptake sites was increased by the treatment with clonazepam. The present observations indicate that clonazepam produces a reduction of serotonin turnover rate in the hippocampus of the rat concomitant with a down-regulation of 5-HT1A binding sites, probably by an effect at the forebrain projections. There is also an up-regulation of the serotonin transporter, which might contribute to a reduction in the synaptic availability of serotonin during clonazepam treatment.
PMID: 8570030 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2005, at 6:46:56
In reply to If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 18:39:09
Hi Kara
> How long did it take to figure that out? Did it take enough time so that you already had to do a very slow taper to get off it?
For me, I felt a mild depressogenic effect within the first few days. That being said, I can't guarantee you that this mild worsening won't disappear with continued use. I had the same thing happen to me with Ativan. After two days, the depressing effect disappeared.
I doubt taking Klonopin for a period of three days to a week would produce a withdrawal syndrome such that you would get stuck using a protracted taper schedule. After two weeks, it might be necessary to taper.
Wait for more replies. The last time I tried Klonopin, it depressed me after the first two doses. I didn't bother to continue with it. However, I had previously been on it for about a year without a problem. Since I was manic at the time, any depressogenic startup effect was probably masked.
- Scott
Posted by Bill LL on July 26, 2005, at 9:23:48
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by krybrahaha78 on July 26, 2005, at 1:52:27
Scientists don't currently know how antidepressants work. Their effects on serotonin are just a guess, and there are many types of serotonin which may have different functions.
> i have heard many times that klonopin also increases serotonin---so if this is that case, how can it cause depression?
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 26, 2005, at 12:10:47
In reply to If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by KaraS on July 25, 2005, at 18:39:09
Actually,
I felt really crummy with the first dose. I dissolved into tears, called my pdoc and begged him to let me quit taking it.
MB
Posted by KaraS on July 26, 2005, at 15:37:57
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » KaraS, posted by SLS on July 26, 2005, at 6:46:56
> Hi Kara
>
> > How long did it take to figure that out? Did it take enough time so that you already had to do a very slow taper to get off it?
>
> For me, I felt a mild depressogenic effect within the first few days. That being said, I can't guarantee you that this mild worsening won't disappear with continued use. I had the same thing happen to me with Ativan. After two days, the depressing effect disappeared.
>
> I doubt taking Klonopin for a period of three days to a week would produce a withdrawal syndrome such that you would get stuck using a protracted taper schedule. After two weeks, it might be necessary to taper.
>
> Wait for more replies. The last time I tried Klonopin, it depressed me after the first two doses. I didn't bother to continue with it. However, I had previously been on it for about a year without a problem. Since I was manic at the time, any depressogenic startup effect was probably masked.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Thanks. I think I'll give it a week and then evaluate.K
Posted by KaraS on July 26, 2005, at 15:39:25
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » KaraS, posted by MidnightBlue on July 26, 2005, at 12:10:47
> Actually,
>
> I felt really crummy with the first dose. I dissolved into tears, called my pdoc and begged him to let me quit taking it.
>
> MB
You really react strongly to medications, don't you? Did you pdoc switch you to another benzo that you liked better?K
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 26, 2005, at 17:12:43
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » MidnightBlue, posted by KaraS on July 26, 2005, at 15:39:25
As I recall, that is when he put me on Valium to help ease the side effects of Wellbutrin. I was on 450 mg of that and I was pretty shaky.
MB
Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2005, at 17:52:08
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression... » KaraS, posted by MidnightBlue on July 26, 2005, at 17:12:43
So tell me then why do all the pdocs prefer klonopin? They used to say it was less addictive and less liable to be abused. So give pt SSRI and take it away with Klonopin? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by xanablu on July 29, 2005, at 22:32:26
In reply to Re: If Klonopin caused you more depression..., posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2005, at 17:52:08
Most patients, like myself, supposedly donot feel any euphoria w/klono, nor can I feel it 'kick in'. I simply feel better, calmer within 45'-1 hr. when I dissolve it under my tongue.
It calms me 'mentally/intellectually'. I also use 40mgs. propanolol 2-3 x's daily, primarily for headache prevention. But, it is a fantastic 'physical' anxiolytic-zapping shakiness and chest pressure.
This is the end of the thread.
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