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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mworkman on September 13, 2005, at 22:33:33
What are the differences in the two? How much does each affect SE, NE, DA, GAGA and such. Which works best for anxiety. Which works best for socialability. Which has more side effects?
Posted by Declan on September 13, 2005, at 23:34:26
In reply to parnate v. nardil, posted by mworkman on September 13, 2005, at 22:33:33
What happened with you and Nardil? You tried it and stopped it?
I wonder if Parnate might be more a euphoriant than an AD.
Nardil might be better for anxiety and sociability.
The drugs are said to mainly emphasize
Nardil....SE, GABA.
Parnate....DAAnd Nardil has more side effects, except for the higher risk of hypertensive crises with Parnate.
That's what they say
Declan
Posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 8:00:05
In reply to Re: parnate v. nardil » mworkman, posted by Declan on September 13, 2005, at 23:34:26
i never remember being euphoric on parnate... i wasn't even sure it was helping. i'd just notice i'd start to withdraw when i didn't take it. (i only went up to 40mg though)
is nardil not catacolaminergic, particularly with dopamine?
and this GABA thing, does it make it dulling cognitively-speaking?
Posted by djmmm on September 14, 2005, at 8:14:54
In reply to parnate v. nardil, posted by mworkman on September 13, 2005, at 22:33:33
> What are the differences in the two? How much does each affect SE, NE, DA, GAGA and such. Which works best for anxiety. Which works best for socialability. Which has more side effects?
I always found Parnate to be a "cleaner" drug...far fewer side-effects.
check out these abstracts for info:
http://biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/phengaba.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/trandep.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/tranylcypromine.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/tranylcypromine.html
http://biopsychiatry.com/maodop.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/dopamine.htm
Posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 9:11:16
In reply to Re: parnate v. nardil, posted by djmmm on September 14, 2005, at 8:14:54
"These behavioral changes were associated with a dramatic increase in 5-HT levels, in particular after chronic treatment, while levels of DA and NE increased only slightly."
this was from the link: http://biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine.htm
does anyone know what this means?
Posted by mworkman on September 14, 2005, at 11:09:35
In reply to wha???? ...mao? » djmmm, posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 9:11:16
So nardil doesn't increase NE and DA very much? How is it different from a SSRI + benzo combo then?
Posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 11:21:51
In reply to Re: wha???? ...mao?, posted by mworkman on September 14, 2005, at 11:09:35
thats what im worrying about now, and there even seems to be some suggestion that the GABA increase may be temporary since phenelzine depletes the MAO it needs to sustain the initial GABA-ergic response???
Posted by djmmm on September 14, 2005, at 13:04:57
In reply to wha???? ...mao? » djmmm, posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 9:11:16
> "These behavioral changes were associated with a dramatic increase in 5-HT levels, in particular after chronic treatment, while levels of DA and NE increased only slightly."
>
> this was from the link: http://biopsychiatry.com/phenelzine.htm
>
> does anyone know what this means?I think the answer is stated in the last part of that abstract. "These results suggest that the effects of phenelzine may be due mainly to its effects on the 5-HT system and presumably related to the full inhibition of MAO-A and/or MAO-B."
Posted by mworkman on September 14, 2005, at 23:11:33
In reply to Re: wha???? ...mao?, posted by mworkman on September 14, 2005, at 11:09:35
So does anyone think nardil has significant effects on NE or DA.
Posted by Declan on September 15, 2005, at 1:10:58
In reply to Re: parnate v. nardil » Declan, posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 8:00:05
Well people do report feeling sloppy on Nardil (at least for a bit), which shades into speaking their minds and not feeling afraid perhaps. Dunno if it's the GABA that does it.
With Parnate I wasn't sure that 20mg/d was helping. More interesting than helpful, perhaps. 10mg/d seems OK though.
Declan
Posted by jonh kimble on September 15, 2005, at 16:17:39
In reply to Re: wha???? ...mao?, posted by iforgotmypassword on September 14, 2005, at 11:21:51
> thats what im worrying about now, and there even seems to be some suggestion that the GABA increase may be temporary since phenelzine depletes the MAO it needs to sustain the initial GABA-ergic response???
See mao is constantly trying to rebuild itself the entire time youre on an maoi. I know what youre saying, but what I recommend is avoiding any maois other than nardil if youre taking it, and you probably ingest more than youd ever think. For example, tabacco is a fairly potent maoi, so if you smoke, both mao a and b are typically 50% lower in smokers. Ginkgo biloba may also be an maoi. Recently linkadge posted something saying coffee has maoi activity so like I said there are probably more than you think and avoiding these may make nardil's gaba/anti anxiety effect more powerful, as it enhances gaba only after it has passed through mao.
Tom
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